Aerials on shield/Shield pressure strings

[Johno]

Hey guys,
Whenever I do an early aerial on an opponent's shield, they usually get off a shield grab and turn my combo on its head. Is there any application to early aerials on shield as a mix-up (or anything else) or is it just a mistake on my part (are late aerials 95% of the the time the better option). Furthermore, what are some good options against a shield that will lead to an advantage for me. I feel like top level players, most of the time, will avoid long strings of intensive tech skill on an opponents shield for two reasons: they might eventually mess up and get punished for it, and, tbh, they don't get a whole lot out of it when they could just shine grab or bait out a shield grab. What are good bread and butter/go to options that will lead to an advantage out of shield pressure? Thanks for all of your responses!

 

[orvs]

early aerials on shield have their uses but in your case they aren't safe because it seems as though you haven't taught yourself how to place your moves in a way so that you hit them but you are out of their grab range. you gotta teach yourself how to fade away when you throw an aerial out so that they will miss the grab (unless it's marth or something, it's a bit difficult to avoid his grab).

generally i throw out early aerials when i predict my opponent wants to hit me with their own aerial. if i'm already right on top of their face/jumping at them with an active hitbox and their aerial doesn't even come out, then i'm most likely going to win that exchange and then proceed to combo/punish.

as for application on shield though its a bit different. it can be used as a pressuring tool, a way to assess your opponent's behaviour, and possibly a way to manipulate their behaviour. for example - when you throw out the early, well spaced aerials, how do they respond? do they try to shield grab (and eventually miss)? do they aerial? do they roll? do they jump? do they sidestep? do they wavedash in a direction? do they stay in their shield? do they have any other exploitable pattern? if you figure something out about your opponent, then you are one step closer punishing them really hard or adjusting your own actions so that you don't get punished. they are in a pressured situation because they are in their shield and they only have access to the actions that are available while in shield. unless they want to die/get punished they are forced to pick an option that will keep them safe, and since you are spacing properly, they can't do much to harm you.

to just get an idea i'll describe a random scenario. let's say you do a shine into an early aerial on a fox who is in his shield. now lets say they miss you when they attempt to shield-grab. During this time, you now have an opening to punish them. you could forward smash fox in his face and he dies or something.

now what if, after doing this a few times, the fox player catches on to this and the next time you throw out an early aerial on his shield, instead of trying to grab you, he stays in his shield longer? (in an attempt to block that same forward smash you and then counter attack you)? Well too bad for him, you have just successfully manipulated the fox into doing something else just because of your actions. now you can punish him by grabbing him.

and yea you're right about top players avoiding long pressure strings on their opponents sheild. its hard to execute perfectly and there are many holes to get punished. even if they do execute perfect multishines or aerial-to-shine pressure, there is still enough time for the opponent to simply roll away/retreat.

to sum it up - it's not a mistake on your part to throw out early aerials. it's only a mistake when you get caught because of them. and shield pressure is a really good tool to get in your opponents head. you can gain an advantage by properly following up on what they do out of their shield.

 

[Johno]

early aerials on shield have their uses but in your case they aren't safe because it seems as though you haven't taught yourself how to place your moves in a way so that you hit them but you are out of their grab range. you gotta teach yourself how to fade away when you throw an aerial out so that they will miss the grab (unless it's marth or something, it's a bit difficult to avoid his grab).

generally i throw out early aerials when i predict my opponent wants to hit me with their own aerial. if i'm already right on top of their face/jumping at them with an active hitbox and their aerial doesn't even come out, then i'm most likely going to win that exchange and then proceed to combo/punish.

as for application on shield though its a bit different. it can be used as a pressuring tool, a way to assess your opponent's behaviour, and possibly a way to manipulate their behaviour. for example - when you throw out the early, well spaced aerials, how do they respond? do they try to shield grab (and eventually miss)? do they aerial? do they roll? do they jump? do they sidestep? do they wavedash in a direction? do they stay in their shield? do they have any other exploitable pattern? if you figure something out about your opponent, then you are one step closer punishing them really hard or adjusting your own actions so that you don't get punished. they are in a pressured situation because they are in their shield and they only have access to the actions that are available while in shield. unless they want to die/get punished they are forced to pick an option that will keep them safe, and since you are spacing properly, they can't do much to harm you.

to just get an idea i'll describe a random scenario. let's say you do a shine into an early aerial on a fox who is in his shield. now lets say they miss you when they attempt to shield-grab. During this time, you now have an opening to punish them. you could forward smash fox in his face and he dies or something.

now what if, after doing this a few times, the fox player catches on to this and the next time you throw out an early aerial on his shield, instead of trying to grab you, he stays in his shield longer? (in an attempt to block that same forward smash you and then counter attack you)? Well too bad for him, you have just successfully manipulated the fox into doing something else just because of your actions. now you can punish him by grabbing him.

and yea you're right about top players avoiding long pressure strings on their opponents sheild. its hard to execute perfectly and there are many holes to get punished. even if they do execute perfect multishines or aerial-to-shine pressure, there is still enough time for the opponent to simply roll away/retreat.

to sum it up - it's not a mistake on your part to throw out early aerials. it's only a mistake when you get caught because of them. and shield pressure is a really good tool to get in your opponents head. you can gain an advantage by properly following up on what they do out of their shield.

Thanks man. That was all the info I was looking for an more! Lots of new stuff I will try to add to my game.

 

[Zekk]

Somthing you could do is mix it up more if you wanna throw out a early nair or something ff and l-cancel it then if they op for a shield grab you can jump or spotdodge them hit them in the **** with a foward smash for a punish make sure you implement alot of lasers in your approach

 

[MALVM MALVM]

Early aerials are great when retreating. You can use a double hit retreating fair to get both an early and late hit as you back off their shield to bait something.