ADVICE: My revelations as of late

[Citizen Snips]

Just putting up some things I've learned that are extremely valuable to Falcon. These have probably been mentioned sparsely around the boards, but it's good to have them all in a single spot for whoever ends up reading this.

1: Pivots are ****ing amazing
I'm going to say that pivots are number 3 on your list of tech skill things to practice just after shffling and stage movement. Since I adopted pivoting into my gameplay I have gotten ridiculously better in a small amount of time. Pivots give you that final burst of control where you can put your moves exactly where you want them. Additionally pivot shield is great against those opponents that just love attacking your dash away and it's tough to space against.

2: If you don't empty hop nearly as much as you aerial, you're probably using too many aerials.
Every opponent you face is going to be digging for every punish they can get. The easiest of these is to outspace your aerials and punish you on landing. If you leave your jump empty, the threat of the aerial stays out much longer and makes it much harder to punish. Additionally, you can waveland backwards out of an empty short hop and cause your opponent to whiff. Keep em guessing.

3: Wavedash in the direction they DI your downthrow for guaranteed reactive tech chases on spacies
This is too legit. If you wavedash with your opponent's DI off of a downthrow, you will be in a position to regrab them on reaction if you're quick enough. It makes regrabbing a lot less stressful and lets you really take your time figuring out their patterns.

That's it for now.

 

[タオー]

Good ****. I'm gonna start refocusing my efforts, especially on 2 and 3, I fall prey to far too many anticipated aerial punishes. Plus that downthrow>wavedash tech chase is downright sexy!

 

[Bu$]

Snips is just full of info. Taking all this to the hyperbolic time chamber.

 

[Citizen Snips]

Also I just updated my Introduction to Mental Game, just so you know /shamelessplug

 

[ChivalRuse]

Falcon's f-tilt is also pretty underused. If it hits, you get good frame advantage to lead to a tech chase situation, and f-tilt is pretty hard to punish/has good range/can be spaced.

 

[タオー]

Falcon's f-tilt is also pretty underused. If it hits, you get good frame advantage to lead to a tech chase situation, and f-tilt is pretty hard to punish/has good range/can be spaced.

One thing I'd like to know is if the variants of f-tilt (up, neutral, down) have their own respective uses for tech chasing. I know the hitboxes, and I know that down is good for edge-guarding spacies side-b, but other than that I'm kinda lost on the glory of f-tilt.

 

[kyaputenfarukon07]

Hax used ftilt as a way to force the missed the tech sometimes

For no 2 if you do wd back or in place (when you are a decent distance from them) they are both good passive mixups if they shield

 

[ChivalRuse]

The glory comes from the fact that it has good frames and doesn't require you to jump. Aside from grabbing, that makes it pretty much your best ground option.

D-smash is also randomly hard to punish if it hits shield.

 

[kyaputenfarukon07]

You can also use it catch (provided that they dont land on stage) running of ledge bair shenanigans sometimes and its mad funny because they dont have there jump anymore then you turn to them and smile

 

[タオー]

You can also use it catch (provided that they dont land on stage) running of ledge bair shenanigans sometimes and its mad funny because they dont have there jump anymore then you turn to them and smile

Catch with f-tilt?! Neutral/Up/Down???!!!! TELL ME I MUST KNOW!!!

 

[kyaputenfarukon07]

It depends on the character mate, tell me which one are you having problems with?

 

[タオー]

It depends on the character mate, tell me which one are you having problems with?

My biggest problem is definitely Falco, although Sheik and Samus I have serious problems edgeguarding.

 

[kyaputenfarukon07]

ftilt I have only tried that in the ditto and against mario not doc for bair shenanigans

grab ledge vs shiek all the time its not exceedingly difficult to react to the amazing lag of that up b

samus you have to be patient and punish based on her decision and since grapple can only be used once

you can keep hitting her before she dies after the grapples has been used

for falco its basically pick your poison because side b has like 5 different timings to shorten

if they up b its a free hit if they are coming from below ledge

 

[Nicco]

Gonna add some gold here.


Snips mentioned wavedash forward for reaction tech chases, and it's pretty damn good. But there are quite a few situations where you have better options. Depending on how far your opponents DI the throw, and how fast they hit the ground, you can sometimes easily cover every single option by timing a late bair/uair where they land. If they miss the tech, the uair/bair will connect and lead to another grab most of the time. If they tech in place, the aerial will miss but you'll be right in front of them ready to grab again, and if they tech roll you just run and grab them. For some reason I find it easier to react to the different techs using this method too. This will also work with the knee sometimes, but the timing is much tighter. You can also use the first hit of the nair, but I find the other options better since they combo, where the nair will just reset.

If they're about to land right in front of you, say after a stomp or an uthrow with bad DI, I'm pretty sure that you can cover everything simply by throwing out a jab, so that if they miss the tech you will reset them. The jab will have to be done as early as possible, while still being able to hit them should they miss the tech. If you jab too late, you won't be able to cover the rolls.

I'm pretty sure that most of you know about using raptor boost to cover 3/4 tech options. If you stand right next to where your opponent will land while tumbling, and start your raptor boost at the moment he lands, you will pull this off. I have seen situations where raptor boost covers all 4 options, but I'm not sure how.

It's possible to react to Sheik's tech roll and punish with stomp! :D When Leffen told me this, I couldn't believe it, but I tried it and it works! It's not easy, but it's possible!

According to Rocky, it's also possible to punish most, if not all characters' getup rolls with a stomp/knee on reaction!

Stomping a missed tech so your opponent will pop up: wait until the moment they land before beginning the stomp! Sort of the same timing as covering 3/4 options with raptor boost.

My biggest problem is definitely Falco, although Sheik and Samus I have serious problems edgeguarding.

Usually Samus will spam bombs when she's trying to recover. I usually just try to jump out and knee her as she's boucning up from the bombs. With Falco/Fox you wanna get good at sniping the double jump/sideB with a soft or even a hard knee. If you force spacies to upB from below the ledge, it's super easy to soft knee gimp them. To edgeguard Sheik, just grab ledge and punish her landing lag from the upB. If you're invincible on the ledge while she does her upB, just press in on the control stick right before the "poof" animation. If she lands on stage, just choose a punish that fits her %. If she goes straight up above the ledge, just bair her or wavedash back onto the ledge, since she has no air mobility after the upB.

Falcon's f-tilt is also pretty underused. If it hits, you get good frame advantage to lead to a tech chase situation, and f-tilt is pretty hard to punish/has good range/can be spaced.

Ftilt can also combo into knee at some percents on floaties. Dash attack is also very underused. In some situations it is the only move you can throw out to keep you safe. I love using this on Yoshi's story to edgeguard! If you dash attack into the ledge and hold in, you will fall off. This provides an easy way to wall jump into uairs and knees. The move itself is also a pretty good option for edgeguarding in some situations. Like ftilt, it can also combo into knee on floaties. Even get-up attack can sometimes be followed up with a knee :D

Super secret technique: Powershield to gentleman! This is amazing :D

 

[Da Shuffla]

This is some golden info. I kinda got bodied at a smashfest last night, and might be going back tonight, so I am eager to try this stuff out. Particularly what Snips said about empty hops. My ratio isn't close to even, so I am looking forward to using empty hop more.

Edit: wd'ing after Dthrow is really good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2Ahm-4FtTI#t=7m4s

Cleanest techchase I have ever seen

 

[Nicco]

After pivots I'd that shield drops should be your number 4 priority tech skill to master. It is SO GOOD! Not only does shield drop uair give falcon a fast OOS option, it gives him a fast OOS option, that comboes into more aerials and a potential knee.

 

[Citizen Snips]

Yeah, shield drops are for sure a top tech skill to integrate. I was playing Gahtzu at Zenith and he was really utilizing them well. As a parallel to that note, don't forget first hit nairs as an alternative to late uair, especially against floaties. It's pretty low landing lag and hits more towards your center than uair does if you drop through a plat. Generally you've got to be quick on the follow up though as there's much less hitstun, but I believe it's safer on shield and can net you a grab due to the brief disruption it causes, almost like an aerial first hit jab.

EDIT: Holy ****, did Hax get his stomps on miss tech on reaction? WTFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

 

[Oskurito]

1: Pivots are ****ing amazing

How is this better than simply quick dash dance to turn around? The pivot shield sounds useful for that quick shield pop up + spacing you may need for defending effectively.

2: If you don't empty hop nearly as much as you aerial, you're probably using too many aerials.

If I see a falcon doing this, I think is just a way of camping and I'll camp him back and harder lol, but it is a good mix up and somewhat of a mindgame.

3: Wavedash in the direction they DI your downthrow for guaranteed reactive tech chases on spacies.

How is this more reliable/better than simply dashing forward aka fox trot? Also, they'll never go behind you after d.throw so is either a small dash or a big dash forward.

 

[Citizen Snips]

How is this better than simply quick dash dance to turn around? The pivot shield sounds useful for that quick shield pop up + spacing you may need for defending effectively.

Pivots allow you to retreat your aerials, whereas a dash turnaround will maintain your dash momentum and propel you forward. The point of pivots is to allow you to effectively place a standing aerial out of dash. It also makes your movement much harder to predict. Pivot shield will allow you to shield while dashing away without exposing your back, which is obviously much easier to pressure.

If I see a falcon doing this, I think is just a way of camping and I'll camp him back and harder lol, but it is a good mix up and somewhat of a mindgame.

The idea behind that is more to force you to think about when you aerial. The goal is not to increase the amount of times you empty hop, but instead to decrease the amount of times you aerial. Empty hops are a lesser commitment and allow you to wean yourself off of doing aerials without becoming a purely DD Falcon.

How is this more reliable/better than simply dashing forward aka fox trot? Also, they'll never go behind you after d.throw so is either a small dash or a big dash forward.

The fox trot works just as well actually. My friend Mask does fox trot instead of WD, but it's a bit harder and doesn't allow you to jab reset unless you can pivot jab (If you can though, do it. So flashy). Additionally, there is a specific spacing you should WD to depending on their DI, but you should be able to figure that out on your own.

 

[Oskurito]

Pivots allow you to retreat your aerials, whereas a dash turnaround will maintain your dash momentum and propel you forward.

Uhmm, it doesn't seem to work like that for me :s. I mean, it does not propel me forward at all, however I don't think I'm pivoting at all. I will upload a video tomorrow so you can check it out

The point of pivots is to allow you to effectively place a standing aerial out of dash. It also makes your movement much harder to predict. Pivot shield will allow you to shield while dashing away without exposing your back, which is obviously much easier to pressure.

True, this is very helpful. I always thought pivot wasn' very necesary to learn (unless you play marth a lot). But maybe it could be pretty useful for every character (I'm spacies main but also play many other characters pretty well).

The idea behind that is more to force you to think about when you aerial. The goal is not to increase the amount of times you empty hop, but instead to decrease the amount of times you aerial. Empty hops are a lesser commitment and allow you to wean yourself off of doing aerials without becoming a purely DD Falcon.

Agreed, I do empty hops with fox and falco and sometimes waveland in and out as mix ups between DD, WD and lasering.

The fox trot works just as well actually. My friend Mask does fox trot instead of WD, but it's a bit harder and doesn't allow you to jab reset unless you can pivot jab (If you can though, do it. So flashy). Additionally, there is a specific spacing you should WD to depending on their DI, but you should be able to figure that out on your own.

I will personally almost always look for a regrab even if they tech in place, if they miss the tech I will probably hold shield hoping for a get up attack to just shield grab it and keep going, if they don't get up and roll I'll WD oos either back or forward and grab again. To be honest, I kinda suck at tech chasing, sometimes I'll yolo stomp after d.throw or yolo raptor boost or knee.

 

[Nicco]

EDIT: Holy ****, did Hax get his stomps on miss tech on reaction? WTFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

Who said this?? I'm pretty sure this is impossible unless they're late with ther getup. Getup rolls can be stomped on reaction tho, and some characters' tech rolls.

 

[Citizen Snips]

Who said this?? I'm pretty sure this is impossible unless they're late with ther getup. Getup rolls can be stomped on reaction tho, and some characters' tech rolls.

I was watching that match that was linked and he only jumps for the stomp the instant they miss the tech, never before. Maybe it's just a timing thing?

 

[gravy]

It needs to be noted that dash wavedash is super good for tech chasing. The dash allows you to keep dash momentum during your jump squat frames and that allows you to travel really far.

Wavedash IS better than fox trot, that's a fact. The reason being that wavedash is fast enough to continue the tech chase in all reasonable scenarios, and it's much easier to space wavedash outside of wake up shine range. You want to straight up beat shine but this gives you some cushion.

 

[Nicco]

I was watching that match that was linked and he only jumps for the stomp the instant they miss the tech, never before. Maybe it's just a timing thing?

It was most likely a timing thing, since you have to wait until they land before starting your shffl, if you wanna make sure they pop up. It could also be DJ taking a little too long time. Generally you just wanna assume they'll miss it, and time it for a pop-up.

You mentioned the first hit of the nair. Pretty sure nair and uair have the same landing lag, so uair is definitely better on shield because more shield stun. It's still not good on shield though, but followed by a jab it's not too bad. The first hit of the nair is really good during combos. When they DI too far for uair or grab, you can sometimes catch them with the first nair hit > grab. It's awesome!

 

[Da Shuffla]

I agree with the consensus that wavedash is better than foxtrot. Though Foxtrot covers more distance, wd is easier to space, and you can still cover the neutral tech/no tech well without pivoting.

Pivoting aerials should be part of every Falcon's game. Just practice them between stocks