(Additional) Long, low height horizontal jump attached to downB?

[Kamano]

I'm not completely sure how I did this, and it's entirely possible I'm wrong here, but...

I was playing a Falco online last night on battlefield, and at one point I did a downB from the left side of the stage headed right as he approached me. I was on the ground when doing the downB, so I still had a regular second jump, which I used as soon as I was able. Now here's the weird part... when I used the second jump, it had an extremely low height to it; downB put me just at standing height on the left platform on BF. However the jump managed to send me to the right side of the right platform, while not having my vertical height go over the center/top platform during the jump.

I'm sure that explanation is a little hard to follow, so I drew a crude little paint image of what happened

Yellow line being the downB trajectory, and green being the second jump

Unfortunately I didn't get a replay of it due to the match being over 3 minutes, but it's something I'd like to test some more, as it seemed to have some extremely odd properties to it. Again, it is possible it was a strange physics quirk that may be difficult to replicate. At this point all I know is I appeared to get an extremely long, fast jump at the end of my downB.

 

[Tristan_win]

Yeah the down B has some truly odd propriety, but this is a good thing

Since your going to do some test with the down B I might as well bring your attention to this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEkZk7iqKcU

At exactly 2:48 Zamus is hanging off the edge with her tether recovery and is hit by MK up B. Zamus then recovery by using her second jump and the down B toward the stage, however after the down B he immediately does an air dodge which give him as much vertical and horizontal lift as a fourth jump.

I'm sadly to busy today to look into this matter (end of the marking period is tomorrow and I have 2 papers to finish) so please look into this as well while your at it.

 

[Kamano]

Hm, yeah. That looks like pretty much exactly what happened to me, but with a dodge replacing the second jump. Time to test! :D

 

[Kamano]

Ah ha! I think I've figured out the key condition to this working, and have been able to replicate it many times in a row this way in the wifi waiting room:

If you are ABOVE (below maybe also? Haven't gotten to that yet) your enemy at any point during a downB, you can jump immediately to end the downB far earlier then normal. This jump can go straight up, or sideways as I did before, and it makes a very distinct "whiff" sound when you do it. Same goes for air dodging in this way. You can air dodge in a direction (most likely upward) when over an opponent during a downB, and you get the same audio cue, and receive a boost in your dodge.

I'd love to call this K-jumping, but if you guys think of any good names, throw 'em out there. Any concise name would be fine, but for now I'll just refer to it as K-jumping to distinguish what it is in my descriptions.



EDIT: Just went to training mode to try this, and while it still appears that it could be useful, it's not exactly what it appeared to be at first. In testing this on a playable character, it seems this is actually a more advanced footstool jump unique to Zamus. Sandbag doesn't have a "footstooled" animation, so it wasn't immediately obvious that that's what was happening, but it is. It appears to have a larger "hitbox" in terms of how near you have to be to an opponent's head to jump off of it than a regular footstool, and obviously allows more options via the long horizontal jump, rising airdodge, or simply a vertical jump from them.

So with that said, it does -not- work from below, or from far above. Seems it can hit roughly just out of where most characters uair or upsmash hitboxes would land. Again, it's not what I originally thought, but it's still looking very useful for mobility and recovery.

 

[Tristan_win]

Okay so accounting to what you are saying this can only be done if your opponent is below or maybe even above you?

Does this interrupting jump count as your second jump if you haven’t used up it up yet and how sure are you that you have to have your opponent below you to do this?

 

[Kamano]

Okay so accounting to what you are saying this can only be done if your opponent is below or maybe even above you?

Does this interrupting jump count as your second jump if you haven’t used up it up yet and how sure are you that you have to have your opponent below you to do this?

Instead of editing my post above again I'll just elaborate here

Being a type of footstool jump, you can in fact use it when you would otherwise have no jumps remaining, and it does -not- consume a normal jump. However, the K-jump animation is surprisingly long, so once you've bounced off their head, you can't do another normal jump for roughly 1s.

You can, however, attack immediately after doing this to an opponent, which allows you to halt or slow your momentum from a sideways K-jump, and also allows a regular jump again sooner than you would be allowed if you simply wait for the long jump animation to finish.

I'd also like to add that the air-dodge variant has the same animation length as a normal air dodge, but with the upward momentum during, so that will be highly useful.

Additionally, K-jumping does NOT diminish your regular footstool jumps, so if you're feeling really tricky, you could potentially K-jump straight up (the height on this is pretty pathetic) and then immediately do a normal footstool jump off their head again for the full height. This probably will almost never come into play, but it's something worth noting, since the K-jump and normal footstool jumps aren't related for diminishing returns.

 

[MprisM]

This has been known for awhile, its just foot stooling out of the down B.

Fastest figured this out like a month ago.

 

[Kamano]

This has been known for awhile, its just foot stooling out of the down B.

Fastest figured this out like a month ago.

I have yet to see any mention of this on the boards so far, and it has properties unique to Zamus, so I wouldn't consider it at all the same as a regular footstool.

Point being: I think this is a worthwhile technique to know about and learn to use due to the mobility/safety and additional options it provides. It's worth pointing it out even if it is old, rather than just dismissing it and forgetting about it.

 

[Tristan_win]

hmm, hate to break it too you Kamano but he's right. Back when I was first starting to pick up Zamus I read fastest thread and he did mention how the down B could Toadstool jump but after trying it a bit in training I quickly realize either I was doing it wrong or he just made a mistake. (I wasn't trying to jump with the another jump but with just purely the down B)

I'm sorry for wasting your time like this.

 

[Kamano]

Hah no problem, I was curious as to what it was as well, since like I said, I've seen no discussion on this whatsoever since I've been browsing the ZSS boards. Either way, I'm going to try and incorporate this into my playstyle a lot more now that I understand its mechanics and potential applications, between spacing, general escape, and the air dodge version.