Adding dpad support for movement?

[W.A.C.]

One aspect to the Smash Bros. series I hate is that they don't give people to option to use the dpad for movement (outside of sideways wiimote controls). Is there any chance Project M could add that option in control settings? Alternatively, if Project M won't add that, could someone make a mod for Project M that adds dpad support? It would be great if I could use a dpad with the Classic Controller. Or even better, if someone finds a way to make a DualShock 4 work on a Wii so I can use that instead, but I doubt that's an option. The DualShock 4 is my favorite controller of all time and I would love to use that with Smash Bros.

 

[Y-L]

One aspect to the Smash Bros. series I hate is that they don't give people to option to use the dpad for movement (outside of sideways wiimote controls). Is there any chance Project M could add that option in control settings? Alternatively, if Project M won't add that, could someone make a mod for Project M that adds dpad support? It would be great if I could use a dpad with the Classic Controller. Or even better, if someone finds a way to make a DualShock 4 work on a Wii so I can use that instead, but I doubt that's an option. The DualShock 4 is my favorite controller of all time and I would love to use that with Smash Bros.

If you use the D pad then how are you going to differentiate between walking and running? How will you differentiate tilts and smashes? Unless you turn tap jump off how will you utilt? How will you angle tilts and smash attacks?
The D pad limits your movement SEVERELY you should just adapt to the analog stick. Adding support for it would be a waste of time. You can always use a wiimote D pad if you insist on using it.

 

[Stride]

To add to Y-L's comment, as opposed to the several hundred angles accessible with the control stick (see this diagram: http://www.ssbwiki.com/images/a/a5/Directions.png), the D-pad would only allow you access to 8 angles. This means you won't be able to:
• DI in more than 8 directions (leaving you unable to optimally DI a lot of moves).
• angle moves such as Fox's or Ness' up-B in more than 8 directions (leaving you unable to sweetspot the ledge, or even reach the ledge at all in many circumstances where you would otherwise have been able to if you were using the control stick).
• wavedash at any angle other than straight down or 45° (significantly limiting your movement options, especially if you play a character which relies on wavedashing extensively, such as Luigi) as a result of not being able to airdodge in more than 8 directions.
• fast-fall while moving horizontally at all.
• perform full length ledgedashes at all.
• angle your shield at all, leaving you unable to shield drop at all.

Smash is very purposefully designed around analogue control, which is why the D-pad can't reasonably be used for movement. You technically could (using the sideways Wii remote), but it's so severely limited as to not be worth bothering with at all (unless you're playing very casually). This is one of several reasons why you never see Smash being played seriously on a fightstick (as they also lack analogue controls, as well as having other limitations).

D-pad movement is almost certainly never going to be given official support, and is extremely unlikely to be given unofficial support. Although I speculate that it would be technically feasible if you want to try adding such functionality yourself (or convincing someone else to do it).

If your computer can run Project M well using Dolphin, then you can use a Dualshock controller there if you want. However, if you ever plan on playing with other people on an actual console (where only Gamecube or Wii controllers will be usable), then I would recommend against it as you'll just have to relearn muscle memory and will have trouble adjusting when you do have to use a Gamecube/Wii compatible controller.

 

[W.A.C.]

If you use the D pad then how are you going to differentiate between walking and running? How will you differentiate tilts and smashes? Unless you turn tap jump off how will you utilt? How will you angle tilts and smash attacks?

You can run by tapping the dpad or analog stick, and I don't understand how tilt attacking is suddenly no longer available if I use a dpad. I also never have tap jump on as I hate jumping with an analog stick or dpad. Angle tilts and smash attack would just be limited to the 8 directions on a dpad and that wouldn't affect my playing style negatively.

The D pad limits your movement SEVERELY you should just adapt to the analog stick. Adding support for it would be a waste of time. You can always use a wiimote D pad if you insist on using it.

Playing games with the wiimote sideways sucks and I hate jumping with up.

To add to Y-L's comment, as opposed to the several hundred angles accessible with the control stick), the D-pad would only allow you access to 8 angles. This means you won't be able to:
• DI in more than 8 directions (leaving you unable to optimally DI a lot of moves).
• angle moves such as Fox's or Ness' up-B in more than 8 directions (leaving you unable to sweetspot the ledge, or even reach the ledge at all in many circumstances where you would otherwise have been able to if you were using the control stick).
• wavedash at any angle other than straight down or 45° (significantly limiting your movement options, especially if you play a character which relies on wavedashing extensively, such as Luigi).
• fast-fall while moving horizontally at all.
• perform full length ledgedashes at all.
• angle your shield at all, leaving you unable to shield drop at all.

Some of this, I don't understand what you're talking about since I'm not very technical with certain smash moves, but the eight directions thing does not bother me and some of that seems possible with a dpad. There are advantages and disadvantages to both control methods and I see nothing wrong with options.

Smash is very purposefully designed around analogue control, which is why the D-pad can't reasonably be used for movement. You technically could (using the sideways Wii remote), but it's so severely limited as to not be worth bothering with at all (unless you're playing very casually). This is one of several reasons why you never see Smash being played seriously on a fightstick (as they also lack analogue controls, as well as having other limitations).

Regardless of the advantages with an analog stick, dpad support should still be added for those who prefer that as an option.

D-pad movement is almost certainly never going to be given official support, and is extremely unlikely to be given unofficial support. Although I speculate that it would be technically feasible if you want to try adding such functionality yourself (or convincing someone else to do it).

I'm atrocious at programming and part of why I created this thread was either the hope someone would making a mod with dpad support or someone who works on Project M would consider adding it.

If your computer can run Project M well using Dolphin, then you can use a Dualshock controller there if you want. However, if you ever plan on playing with other people on an actual console (where only Gamecube or Wii controllers will be usable), then I would recommend against it as you'll just have to relearn muscle memory and will have trouble adjusting when you do have to use a Gamecube/Wii compatible controller.

Dolphin does not run well on my computer, so Dolphin isn't an option.

 

[Y-L]

What possible advantage could a dpad have over the analog stick? It is inferior in every way and you disregarded basically everything in the above comment.

 

[Stride]

You can run by tapping the dpad or analog stick, and I don't understand how tilt attacking is suddenly no longer available if I use a dpad. I also never have tap jump on as I hate jumping with an analog stick or dpad. Angle tilts and smash attack would just be limited to the 8 directions on a dpad and that wouldn't affect my playing style negatively.

It wouldn't work because the game distinguishes tilting the stick lightly (for things like tilts and walking), and tilting it more firmly (for things like smashes and dashing). It's not that you couldn't have tilts, it's that you couldn't have both tilts and smashes (or both walking and running); with a D-pad, there would be no way to accomplish that besides an awkward double-tap input. Besides that, there are 3 different walking speeds and 2 different dashing speeds for each character; how can you possibly implement that without analogue control? Angled tilts and smashes would indeed be possible though.

Some of this, I don't understand what you're talking about since I'm not very technical with certain smash moves, but the eight directions thing does not bother me and some of that seems possible with a dpad. There are advantages and disadvantages to both control methods and I see nothing wrong with options.

I assure you that none of the things I mentioned are possible with only the directions on a D-pad.

I can see how more technical things like shield drops may not be at all significant to players that don't use those techniques, but you must see how things like not being able to angle your recovery properly is a serious problem with D-pad controls; if you play Diddy Kong, Wolf, Fox, Falco, Zelda, Sheik, Mewtwo, Lucario, Pikachu, Lucas, or Ness then your recovery is severely crippled, and although not as bad, virtually every other character has their recovery made less effective due to increased difficulty with aerial control and angling their recovery move as it comes out.

What are the advantages of using the D-pad, other than personal comfort (which can be worked around by becoming used to the analogue stick)?

Regardless of the advantages with an analog stick, dpad support should still be added for those who prefer that as an option.

Yes, but the demand for it is incredibly small since it's objectively worse than an analogue stick. With the limited development time of Project M, there are going to be more important things that will be given more priority, to the point where D-pad movement won't be added at all. I wouldn't mind it being in too much (although now that I think of it I don't like the idea of people getting used to it and then not wanting to change despite how bad it is), but it's not realistic to expect the team to add it on their own time (everything in the project is on their own time) when there's such low demand/application for it. The development time will be more usefully assigned to things like character balance and bug fixes.

Also, where would taunt be mapped? The analogue stick? It would have to be that or you'd be forced to sacrifice another button. It's not really a problem but it's strange.

 

[Darkevilprice995]

That sounds very not fun!

 

[W.A.C.]

What possible advantage could a dpad have over the analog stick? It is inferior in every way and you disregarded basically everything in the above comment.

What are the advantages of using the D-pad, other than personal comfort (which can be worked around by becoming used to the analogue stick)?

The dpad allows for quicker and more predictable responses while playing a game. Pretty much anytime I play Smash Bros. for long sessions with friends, I often seem to make annoying input mistakes where I meant to do one action but didn't have the analog stick positioned in the exact right way. The simplicity and ease of a dpad makes that far less of an issue, and would be more ideal with my playing style and control preferences.

It wouldn't work because the game distinguishes tilting the stick lightly (for things like tilts and walking), and tilting it more firmly (for things like smashes and dashing). It's not that you couldn't have tilts, it's that you couldn't have both tilts and smashes (or both walking and running); with a D-pad, there would be no way to accomplish that besides an awkward double-tap input. Besides that, there are 3 different walking speeds and 2 different dashing speeds for each character; how can you possibly implement that without analogue control? Angled tilts and smashes may indeed be possible depending on the specifics of how they work though; I'd have to check whether a 45° angle would be interpreted as an up tilt or an upward angled forward tilt (I'm pretty sure it's the former).

In terms of speed, usually I tap an analog stick fast to go fast or I have the analog stick pushed all the way one direction. Occasionally I'll just walk slowly, but I rarely do that.

I assure you that none of the things I mentioned are possible with only the directions on a D-pad.

I can see how more technical things like shield drops may not be at all significant to players that don't use those techniques, but you must see how things like not being able to angle your recovery properly is a serious problem with D-pad controls; if you play Diddy Kong, Wolf, Fox, Falco, Zelda, Sheik, Mewtwo, Lucario, Pikachu, Lucas, or Ness then your recovery is severely crippled, and although not as bad, virtually every other character has their recovery made less effective due to increased difficulty with aerial control and angling their recovery move as it comes out.

I could see how that would negatively impact me when I play as Diddy Kong, but I've also ****ed up with recoveries a lot in the past because I meant to do an action but failed to do so because I didn't position the analog stick in just the right way. >_<

Yes, but the demand for it is incredibly small since it's objectively worse than an analogue stick. With the limited development time of Project M, there are going to be more important things that will be given more priority, to the point where D-pad movement won't be added at all. I wouldn't mind it being in too much (although now that I think of it I don't like the idea of people getting used to it and then not wanting to change despite how bad it is), but it's not realistic to expect the team to add it on their own time (everything in the project is on their own time) when there's such low demand/application for it. The development time will be more usefully assigned to things like character balance and bug fixes.

Then I guess I could be hopeful that maybe someone will make a mod for dpad support?

Also, where would taunt be mapped? The analogue stick? It would have to be that or you'd be forced to sacrifice another button. It's not really a problem but it's strange.

Well, if I were to use a dpad for Smash Bros., I wouldn't use a GCN controller and the Classic Controller has two additional buttons, so I would probably map a taunt to select (even though I rarely use taunts).

 

[Shane Lee Shin]

I think D-Pad support would be awesome, just to have as an option. I use GC controller nowadays but I really wanted to use D-Pad when I was using the classic controller mostly because that was how I was used to playing with that specific controller. If PM or someone coded that in my head would f*cking explode!!

 

[Stride]

The dpad allows for quicker and more predictable responses while playing a game. Pretty much anytime I play Smash Bros. for long sessions with friends, I often seem to make annoying input mistakes where I meant to do one action but didn't have the analog stick positioned in the exact right way. The simplicity and ease of a dpad makes that far less of an issue, and would be more ideal with my playing style and control preferences.

I could see how that would negatively impact me when I play as Diddy Kong, but I've also ****ed up with recoveries a lot in the past because I meant to do an action but failed to do so because I didn't position the analog stick in just the right way. >_<

Because of the design of the Gamecube controller (where the gate which the control stick extrudes from is octagonal, making the stick rest naturally in the cardinal and ordinal directions) inputting any of the 8 directions which the D-pad gives you access to is extremely difficult to fail. At best, the D-pad would allow you to perform those inputs (extremely) slightly more reliably, at the cost of not being able to input any directions besides those at all.

If your playing style somehow works better with the D-pad, then there's a problem with your playing style (it reminds me of people who say things like "I'm usually a really aggressive player; shielding isn't part of my playstyle").

The difference here is that you're failing to move/recover properly when using the control stick because you're not using it well, whereas you are forced to fail your recoveries and restrict your movement options when using the D-pad because of its inherent limitations. Once you overcome the barrier of not being used to the control stick, you will be much better than you were able to be when you were using the D-pad. It's comparable to learning to wavedash; when you're first learning you'll mess it up and get punished for it so much that you'll probably do worse, but once you practice enough to overcome that, then you'll be better than you were before because you'll have more options.

Here is a diagram demonstrating how D-pad controls would impair recoveries (using Falco because it's easier to visualise with him, but the same principles apply to any of the other characters with recoveries that you can angle):

The orange lines represent the angles that are possible using the D-pad. With only these angles it's literally impossible to recover to the ledge, leaving recovering onstage as the only option, where you will be F-smashed by the Marth.

Here, the red lines represent the angles that are possible using the control stick (I only drew the ones between 270° and 180°, and there are more than this diagram can represent accurately). With these angles, you are able to sweetspot the ledge, avoiding the Marth.

In terms of speed, usually I tap an analog stick fast to go fast or I have the analog stick pushed all the way one direction. Occasionally I'll just walk slowly, but I rarely do that.

You would be unable to walk at all, or turn in place without initiating a dash (which is significant).

 

[W.A.C.]

So I've been playing the 3DS version of Smash Bros. a lot lately (using this circle pad cover and noticed I seem to have significantly less issues with playing Smash Bros. that way compared to using a GCN controller and Wii Classic Controller Pro. So last night, I tested Melee with Dolphin using a variety of controllers and came to the conclusion the problem isn't the fact I have to use an analog stick, it's that I hate using Nintendo's analog sticks. Using a DualShock 4, I had little to no issues using an analog stick with Smash Bros. I seriously hope this product finds its way to overseas. In the meantime, at least I modded my Wii U Pro Controller to have DualShock 4 analog sticks...though I hate how the analog sticks lack stiffness, I hate the position of the ABXY buttons, don't like the digital triggers, and I don't like the grips. >_>

 

[7upjawa]

ive seen you also ask yo use the dualshock 4 with mods. you are like the wierdest person ever. smash is suppossed to use a stick. its not like normal fighters in that sense, the gamecube stick has directions in its edges to be accurate, and it is very grippy and controllable. now just freaking play the game the way its suppossed to XD

 

[W.A.C.]

As I said in my previous post, I previously thought the issue was that I had to use an analog stick but the real problem is that I have to use a Nintendo analog stick. I've grown to absolutely hate the GCN analog sticks and Classic Controller analog sticks. Being able to use a DualShock 4 would make playing the Smash Bros. games way more enjoyable for me.

 

[Y-L]

As I said in my previous post, I previously thought the issue was that I had to use an analog stick but the real problem is that I have to use a Nintendo analog stick. I've grown to absolutely hate the GCN analog sticks and Classic Controller analog sticks. Being able to use a DualShock 4 would make playing the Smash Bros. games way more enjoyable for me.

It's easy to modify a gc controller to use a dual shock stick.. Try googling it.

 

[W.A.C.]

I changed my left analog stick with a DualShock 3 analog stick and my right analog stick with a Classic Controller analog stick. Even though that's a massive improvement in terms of comfort, how it feels when I move the stick around still doesn't feel that great. Not to mention the DualShock 4 analog sticks were a massive improvement over the DualShock 3 sticks, but they don't work well with the GCN controller's design. Trust me, I've tried. >_>

 

[7upjawa]

I love gcn sticks because of how springy they are. as soon as i let go i can neutral air