A Whole Tier Difference?

[nuev0_]

As we all know by now, the new tier list has come out.

I wanted to spark up a discussion, because honestly I've been debating over this with my friends and wanted to bring it to the Falco thread.

Don't you guys find it a little funny how Fox is in "SS" and Falco in "S"? I find that, no matter at what level of play, a good Falco and a good Fox can always stand toe to toe with each other. I get that there are certain matchups that Fox performs better in than Falco, but usually that matchup percentage isn't very significant, and certainly not worthy of a separate spot on the tier list.

Maybe I'm just being a stubborn Falco main.

 

[GenNyan]

Yeah thats a quirk of the voting system they used. Everybody agreed fox was number 1, even if they only thought he was slightly better than the rest. This is by far the biggest point of contention that most people have with the list.

 

[FE_Hector]

Yeah, GenNyan pretty much summed it up. I'm pretty sure most of it also comes from the fact that people whine and complain about Falco's MUs against Puff, Peach, and Marth, to a lesser extent. Fox also doesn't really struggle with those, though Marth-Fox can be volatile. The whole thing is that Fox is agreed by pretty much the whole community to be the best, so the SS tier was mostly designed to show that. We can easily bring it back. It's Falco we're talking about.

 

[C-SAF]

The real answer to this is to just ignore the tier list. If u know the 8 or 9 characters that can compete, that's all the info u need.

 

[Klemes]

The tier gaps are determined by gaps in votes. Everyone agrees that fox is #1, therefore there will always be a significant gap between him and falco. It's as simple as that : votes. Of course fox goes even vs falco, and y'all agree that falco doesn't have any LOSING MU either. But that won't change the fact that fox's MU spread is objectively stronger (mainly because of floaties), and this very consensus is what gave birth to this dumb SS-tier.

I discussed this before here Fox now has his own Tier.Does he need it?What are your opinions of having the SS tier in Melee? | Smashboards

But I think this 20XX era isn't guaranteed to prevail. I think Falco could be the truth, if pushed closer to perfection. I think that with a perfect understanding and mastery of the character, his superb neutral game could make the difference in particular. It's also harder to play the MUs right than it is for fox IMO. I also would like to add that I'm one of those who think falco>fox as a MU.

 

[FE_Hector]

The tier gaps are determined by gaps in votes. Everyone agrees that fox is #1, therefore there will always be a significant gap between him and falco. It's as simple as that : votes. Of course fox goes even vs falco, and y'all agree that falco doesn't have any LOSING MU either. But that won't change the fact that fox's MU spread is objectively stronger (mainly because of floaties), and this very consensus is what gave birth to this dumb SS-tier.

I discussed this before here Fox now has his own Tier.Does he need it?What are your opinions of having the SS tier in Melee? | Smashboards

But I think this 20XX era isn't guaranteed to prevail. I think Falco could be the truth, if pushed closer to perfection. I think that with a perfect understanding and mastery of the character, his superb neutral game could make the difference in particular. It's also harder to play the MUs right than it is for fox IMO. I also would like to add that I'm one of those who think falco>fox as a MU.

Adding onto this a bit, around the time that the tier list came out, somebody (Sempai?) on Twitter said that they feel that Fox is the best at supercomputer level and Falco's easily the best at human level. I'm personally convicted that Falco crushes Peach and Puff, but most Falco's haven't put the work into the MU yet. As I'm able to get out to more events and gain more mental control, etc etc, I intend to do a LOT of looking into these two MUs in particular. Hopefully I'll have more info about this in the next few years.

 

[Melansjf]

Adding onto this a bit, around the time that the tier list came out, somebody (Sempai?) on Twitter said that they feel that Fox is the best at supercomputer level and Falco's easily the best at human level. I'm personally convicted that Falco crushes Peach and Puff, but most Falco's haven't put the work into the MU yet. As I'm able to get out to more events and gain more mental control, etc etc, I intend to do a LOT of looking into these two MUs in particular. Hopefully I'll have more info about this in the next few years.

I've had the same thoughts about the Puff/Peach MU's There just isn't enough being put towards combatting them, some just witch to their secondary for them, and this quitters mentality towards those fights hinders the progress of his game.
Good luck. Falco mains are rooting for you.

 

[FE_Hector]

I've had the same thoughts about the Puff/Peach MU's There just isn't enough being put towards combatting them, some just witch to their secondary for them, and this quitters mentality towards those fights hinders the progress of his game.
Good luck. Falco mains are rooting for you.

I'll be actually be able to travel and stuff in the next few years, and NC has 2 Peach's and a Puff PRd that I can learn from once I get better. Obviously it'll be slow, especially since I've gotta get to that level first, but I fully intend to do research into this.

 

[Melansjf]

I'll be actually be able to travel and stuff in the next few years, and NC has 2 Peach's and a Puff PRd that I can learn from once I get better. Obviously it'll be slow, especially since I've gotta get to that level first, but I fully intend to do research into this.

I'd try my own research, but I can't for the life of me find any tournaments in Nova Scotia... Good luck.