A new model for stage selection

[ArstNeio]

Hey guys,

So basically I've already stated that I think the most fair way of selecting a stage is banning from a list of all 29. I also know that this is impossible to actually achieve in tournament because it is slow.

That being said, what we ought to do is ban the stages that nobody is going to pick anyway because they will be stricken every single time (ex: Temple will never get picked because the slower character will always ban it). I'm not really sure yet what these stages are, but I'm thinking stages like Temple or Flat Zone, ones that aren't bad for one character but for a whole class of characters (i.e. Temple is bad for the slower character, universally)

And then we should focus on removing stages for particular characters that are broken on these stages.

Call it character discrimination: categorical bans based on singular characters is bad--banning a stage just because of Fox prevents us from having fruitful matches on that stage with other characters, and developing the metagame in that way.

So here's what I propose:
We have a Character-Stage tier list; it's kind of complicated so pay attention lolz.
We have, say, 4 tiers (maybe 4 is too many? I'll need input on the specifics).
Tier 4 characters are like Fox, and maybe nobody else. The tiers are done based on how many different stages the character is really good on.

Before every best of 3 or best of 5 match, you announce double blind the 3 (or 5) characters you are allowed to pick for the whole set (3 or 5 chars so that you still have the option of picking 3 different chars for each of the 3 different games).

Then, your opponent gets to ban a number of stages corresponding to what your highest character-stage tier character is.

So if I go in and I say I'll play Samus, ICs, and Fox, then my opponent gets to ban 4 stages off the list of remaining stages that aren't in the list of universal bans.

Then I do the same for my opponent.

Then we stage strike off the remaining stages, and our counterpicks are also from the pool of remaining stages. Perhaps we get one more ban after the stage list is finalized; not sure if this is necessary.




I think this is a good system because that means we still get to play stages in matchups where those stages aren't bad. Just because Fox is broken on Corneria doesn't mean that we can't have a fruitful Samus Peach matchup there.




So I'd like some feedback:
1. Is this a decent system? What are some glaring fundamental problems with the system (i.e. not referencing any specific stages or the character-stage tier list, just mechanistic issues)
2. Where do you guys see each of the characters on this character-stage tier list?
3. What are the categorical stage bans?





Title edited so people will actually read and give feedback on this

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

liberal

Get the **** out.

 

[Jam Stunna]

I think this is a good system because that means we still get to play stages in matchups where those stages aren't bad. Just because Fox is broken on Corneria doesn't mean that we can't have a fruitful Samus Peach matchup there.

I totally agree with you on this point, but I think your system overall is just too complicated. I would say go with a stage-striking system for neutrals and keep all counterpicks open (not counting the ones that everyone agrees should be banned, like Temple).

 

[FoxLisk]

this is silly. what if you play falco against fast fallers and cfal against floaties? if they're ind ifferent tiers, you're ****ed and have to pick new characters.

and just banning from a list of 29 stages doesnt work either. as fox I can ban every fair stage and you are forced to pick which miserably unreasonable stage you have to play against me.

 

[Pogogo]

Thats true. Ban all of the Neutrals and Fair Cps and be really lame. They cant ban your ban after all. Imba stupid stages are imba and stupid.

 

[ArstNeio]

I don't understand your scenario. It's a double blind pick of your 3 chars, so you'd pick falco and CF and whatever third character, and your opponent does the same, and you have to stick with those 3. Opponent strikes a number of stages corresponding with your highest stage-tier character, but these stage strikes apply for the whole match, and must be stricken for all chars. You wouldn't have to pick new chars or anything regarding different tiers; falco and CF would just both be in your repository of 3 characters.



While I understand your point about Fox, the whole idea behind putting chars in different tiers is to mitigate this. Fox, as a high stage-tier character, would have more bans against him to prevent this from happening.

this is silly. what if you play falco against fast fallers and cfal against floaties? if they're ind ifferent tiers, you're ****ed and have to pick new characters.

and just banning from a list of 29 stages doesnt work either. as fox I can ban every fair stage and you are forced to pick which miserably unreasonable stage you have to play against me.

 

[MooseEatsBear]

I think this is just another person (that I agree with) that wants more stages to play on.