A new competitive idea

[Shears]

The direction competitive smash is in is to create a competitive environment with the least amount of variables and to make the game as even as a matchup as can be. This got me thinking of a way that the game can truly be even. If we went through all the character matchups we find that the only ones that are truly even are character dittos. In a ditto no character has an inherent advantage, they have identical movesets, options, hurtboxes, recovery, etc. where dittos are viewed almost as coin flips (or 50-50 and therefore even). So in a ditto the winner is usually the better player and the one who out thinks his opponent, which is the direction smash is taking by removing hazards or gimmicks that give one player an advantage over another (this is assuming players are of equal skill and understand the character the same). So thinking about this I thought it would be interesting to see how tournaments would end if they were played using character dittos. Here would be the experimental ruleset:

Stages: Dreamland
Character Selection: First match random character is removed, each opponent then strikes 5 characters in the order P1, P2, P2, P1, P1, P2, P2, P1, P2, P1. Second match, loser selects character to which dittos are played on with the winner being allowed to strike 3 characters. If needed, subsequent games use the same selection process as the second match.
Stocks: 5
Best 2/3

Obviously players that are more diverse with the whole cast would initially do better in this type of structure but a player really only needs to learn a few characters as they can strike 5 characters they don't want to learn. When in the dittos players won't be losing or complaining about character matchups and such. Instead, they have to win entirely on how they outsmart their opponent because approach options, combos, etc are the same for their opponent.

 

[Saltsizzle]

Character selection is pretty complicated. I suggest random character selected for first match (element of randomness and will have to be more well versed for the whole cast, more simple but less competitive). Loser picks next character. You can always make an online tournament. There hasn't been one of those in a while.

 

[Kahnu]

The direction competitive smash is in is to create a competitive environment with the least amount of variables and to make the game as even as a matchup as can be. This got me thinking of a way that the game can truly be even. If we went through all the character matchups we find that the only ones that are truly even are character dittos. In a ditto no character has an inherent advantage, they have identical movesets, options, hurtboxes, recovery, etc. where dittos are viewed almost as coin flips (or 50-50 and therefore even). So in a ditto the winner is usually the better player and the one who out thinks his opponent, which is the direction smash is taking by removing hazards or gimmicks that give one player an advantage over another (this is assuming players are of equal skill and understand the character the same). So thinking about this I thought it would be interesting to see how tournaments would end if they were played using character dittos. Here would be the experimental ruleset:

Stages: Dreamland
Character Selection: First match random character is removed, each opponent then strikes 5 characters in the order P1, P2, P2, P1, P1, P2, P2, P1, P2, P1. Second match, loser selects character to which dittos are played on with the winner being allowed to strike 3 characters. If needed, subsequent games use the same selection process as the second match.
Stocks: 5
Best 2/3

Obviously players that are more diverse with the whole cast would initially do better in this type of structure but a player really only needs to learn a few characters as they can strike 5 characters they don't want to learn. When in the dittos players won't be losing or complaining about character matchups and such. Instead, they have to win entirely on how they outsmart their opponent because approach options, combos, etc are the same for their opponent.

new tier list for smash bros confirmed

just trust me guys

 

[clubbadubba]

or instead of reselecting a new ditto each time, just have every set be a best of 5 with 5 different dittos. random char select bans first character. then each player bans 3 characters. The remaining 5 are in play for the set. First ditto to play is decided by each player banning 2 of the 5. From that point on loser picks which ditto to do.

 

[anonymouschris01]

While I can understand how this would make a more balanced play style, and show who is a more skilled player, I feel as if this would be extremely boring from a spectators perspective. So it's a compromise as far as expanding player skill and the meta game, or expanding the community, finding more diversity in players and also expanding the meta game.

 

[MrMarbles]

too bad some dittos are just unbearable. ness and yoshi anyone?

 

[The Star King]

too bad some dittos are just unbearable. ness and yoshi anyone?

those are both pretty gud

 

[clubbadubba]

those are both pretty gud

if they're both so good how come you never come play them at my place huh?

must be because they suck

 

[Shears]

too bad some dittos are just unbearable. ness and yoshi anyone?

The Z vs Wizzrobe was a great Yoshi ditto set.

 

[Tom Bombadil]

I watched cobr and kabal play Samus dittos while we were staying at cobr's house before apex (only one console that we were all sharing). When they finally got down to below 2 stocks each my console froze and they RESTARTED FROM 5 STOCKS...

22 minutes of Samus dittos

 

[MrMarbles]

The Z vs Wizzrobe was a great Yoshi ditto set.

true. i don't think u can argue that ness dittos aren't trash tho

 

[Beesy]

ooo i like it, shears. Very interesting.

Seems it would make things slower, which would definitely be a problem.

Aside from the more even matchups, we'd get to learn more about each other, which would be interesting.

So, can it be done quickly? I want to try this.

 

[Shears]

Obviously it would take longer as character striking would be a process, and matches may lose excitement because having identical approaches means caution would increase, but just as a thought experiment I think a competitive ruleset similar to this would be more "pure" and even. Its almost like meshing 12cb with current tournament structure.

And @ MrMarbles if you hate ness and yoshi so much, just strike them.

I think if I was striking I would strike, ness, yoshi, link, fox, dk.

 

[clubbadubba]

Bad part of this is that now you literally only have to learn 7 matchups (if picked shears way) or 9 matchups (if picked my way). Kinda lame. Even players that can only play one character have to learn 12 matchups. And before anyone says some dumb **** like "its only top x characters played anyway so you only have to know x matchups... yea okay tell that to Kefit lol.

Along the same lines, the idea that beating someone consistently in a ditto means you are better with that character is bogus. At most it means you are better at that specific matchup. Whether you are better with the character overall has to take into consideration how well you perform comparatively at all 12 matchups.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

Ness dittos suck so much. It's just quite boring.

 

[Capos]

"its only top x characters played anyway so you only have to know x matchups... yea okay tell that to Kefit lol.

Context?

 

[clubbadubba]

kefit's pikachu was winning vs jaime's falcon at apex 2012... then jaime switched to samus and won the set. The same exact thing happened to kero at apex 2014 actually now that I think about it. Point being you have to know all 12 matchups with a character, not just the top 4 or 5 matchups, or sooner or later it will bite you in the ass.

 

[Studstill]

Random character selecting is a death knell for this game.
I dig what you are getting at though, man and this is spot on:

kefit's pikachu was winning vs jaime's falcon at apex 2012... then jaime switched to samus and won the set. The same exact thing happened to kero at apex 2014 actually now that I think about it. Point being you have to know all 12 matchups with a character, not just the top 4 or 5 matchups, or sooner or later it will bite you in the ***.

 

[codydaniels88]

Yes yoshi is a kingf in a ditto

And ness can sometime be beat with items

 

[SSBPete]

falcon dittos on dreamland don't determine who is the better falcon, or even who is better at the matchup. same goes with jiggs. one game i'll 5 stock someone, the very next i'll get 5 stocked.

 

[Z-Rex]

Why all the Ness hate on here? I feel like I'm missing out on some inside joke.

For the record I find dittos boring to watch in general.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

Why all the Ness hate on here? I feel like I'm missing out on some inside joke.

For the record I find dittos boring to watch in general.

It's a bit of an inside joke, Ness went from 3rd to 8th to 9th on the list, mostly since people didn't get that his range is pretty bad and he doesn't have a recovery outside of up close. I don't think a lot of people actually hate Ness on here, they just dislike playing the character as he is a bit boring or something similar. I mean Firo is quite good and Weedwack is also but whom else?

 

[Z-Rex]

It's a bit of an inside joke, Ness went from 3rd to 8th to 9th on the list, mostly since people didn't get that his range is pretty bad and he doesn't have a recovery outside of up close. I don't think a lot of people actually hate Ness on here, they just dislike playing the character as he is a bit boring or something similar. I mean Firo is quite good and Weedwack is also but whom else?

Me

 

[Daniel Mears]

falcon dittos on dreamland don't determine who is the better falcon, or even who is better at the matchup. same goes with jiggs. one game i'll 5 stock someone, the very next i'll get 5 stocked.

Just make Falcon dittos 20 stocks and you solve that problem and make them as long as regular games.