A large scale project - Sheik's best punishes.

[New_Dumal]

There's nothing that works as the "best punish for every situation", that's a commom sense for every Smash player.
Percents matter, rage matters, stage matters, weight matters, there's many variables.
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With this in mind, I created this thread and I ask for support from Sheik players to list what is the best bnb punishes for two purpose (build damage and kill) in most situations.

I want we build this for almost every move in Shield, from each character, ignoring the stage factor.
This would be done from character, starting with the most popular in tourneys.
But for now, we need to start from somewhere.

So....
What's the best punishes for any of the ledge recoveries options ?
In this case: regular get up, ledge roll, ledge drop, ledge drop jump, ledge jump....?

And in particular, ledge attacks from all characters.
It's safe to say FSmash OoS is the best punish (to kill) against majority of ledge attacks?
But some ledge attacks have small ending lag for FSmash to properly hit. Let's test and list things.





How can we punish this guys ledge attacks (in Shield) ?
I want to help to with testing, but for now I don't have a player 2 and there's no way to force CPU to ledge-attack.

If you liked the idea of building this, please help us as you can.
For now, I'll be gratefull with help in the options for punishing this ledge recoveries.
(Consider you now the timing your opponent is going to leave the ledge)

Once again,it's impossible to know the best punish for each scenario, each percents, each MU.
But I think knowing some BnB options will be great.

 

[Creede]

I'm surprised this hasn't gotten any attention. I'm still very new to this game competitively so I won't have any answers as of yet. Some of the things you mentioned, like ledge get up, are generally not too punishable due to invincibility.

Most high level players won't use laggy moves because of how easily punishable they are. You won't see an Ike use his get up attack too often, or not at all at a high enough level. HOWEVER, I have found it's possible to do around 38 percent if you break a shield at low (very low) percents. If someone's shield breaks at below 10% (very unlikely, especially since we are talking about Sheik) you can throw a grenade and hit someone with multiple hitboxes of an u-smash. You don't really have time to charge the usmash because of the nade lag, but I suppose if you ledge cancel the nade you may have time to charge, but I doubt it. This needs testing, because I rarely manage to pull it off in training, but can be pretty good, however situational it is.

 

[Jaxas]

I'm surprised this hasn't gotten more attention as well, even if it's just for covering ledge options.
Are there any characters we can hit with Usmash on reaction to their ledge-hop, for example? Or Dsmash? Things like that.

Can the grenade be used to actually cover options, or does it just kinda suck for this too?

 

[?.?]

Most of this is just MU experience and thus higher level players can't be bothered plus most of the testers are already washed up with other projects Lol, I know two are working on BCS right now. Point is this really doesn't seem worth it for the more versed players, seems like a nice tool for beginners though. I guess I'll add in some fun points I've discovered/learned over time all regarding edge guards.

U-tilt is a nice cover to jumping up from ledge, much easier to time than U-smash and if you whiff the first hit the second hit usually scares people regardless plus it is a nice combo starter. If they for whatever reason re-grab ledge without getting I-frames back d-tilt hits ledge quite nicely and can be followed up with u-air/fair/bf the usuals. Rolling behind a standing getup works really well on the majority of the cast and will freak people out most of the time giving free grabs/nairs, or if that doesn't suit your fancy a well spaced fair is usually unpunishable here. None of these are character specific and I've used them on the majority of the cast to great effect.

I'll give you a bit of MU knowledge a lot of newer sheiks don't know about for CP. Falc, if his u-b isn't perfectly spaced to grab ledge or you trumped him a bf can actually hit below ledge and can be followed up by another at that point because most falcons freak out at this point and just throw our their recovery without timing. (or you could just gimp him instead of having fun.

Good luck with this, and hey even if most of the higher up sheiks aren't helping I'm sure by the end of the day they'll appreciate it.

 

[New_Dumal]

Yeah, I'm not giving up this project.
Today I will myself do all kind of test for punish edge options.
Again, I know it's impossible to say : "this is the best punish for this option", because there are so many factors.
But I will at least try to discover what move is possible to use for punish ledge options from all characters and finally rank the strongest ones possible.
I will try to mix-up combos after the punish (something like : It's possible to give +25% after a ledge attack in your shield) and other little things like this.

Thanks about the C.Falcon tip and I will try to test with UTilt too.