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A few questions.

BrandQ

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 23, 2007
Messages
31
Location
Queens Village, New York.
Stickies, a few threads, the search, oh my. Don't fail me, men.

- Nair > shine. What are the situations where I would prefer that over dair > shine, if any?
- Is shine > usmash ever useful?
- When is a SHFFLed uair useful?
- Are there differences concerning pillaring among different characters (should you not do it against Samus, etc...)?
- Is fighting ICs a very different match from other characters, in general? Should I actually be aiming to kill Nana?
- Recommendations against fighting ICs, Sheiks, or Falcos?
- Finally, what's a.... ledgecancel? It's not in AlphaZealot's terms thread, but...

http://smashboards.com/search.php?searchid=878505

Help?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
 

anotherdeadcow

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 17, 2007
Messages
93
Location
lapeer, mi
ill give this a shot, just incase no one else does...

- i use and have seen used mainly to move fastfallers across the stage in a combo and as an interjection. meaning, in a shine combo, id use it instead of dair only on a fastfaller and only when i specifically needed to work them toward the edge. hopefully someone else has more to say.

-fastfallers at low damage could stay stunned all the way back down to the usmash, but in most cases there is something better to do there. again, someone else has more insight im sure.

-since uair isnt a finishing move for falco like it is fox, its not as useful. if you combo a fastfaller like fox, and you do dair waveshine to about 50%, he will get slightly out of shorthop dair range. the second hit of the uair has just enough knockback to keep the combo going, so if you shuffle it you can keep them comboed for a hit or two.

-if by pillaring you mean shine combos in general, then yes, there are huge differences. best shine combos usually involve waveshine against fastfallers (fox, falco, falcon), sh to dair and repeat, and jumping straight out of the shine for everyone else. everyone has a different height so sometimes you need a full or double jump to catch up with a dair, back to shine or utilt, and to dair (or bair to finish). and no, you cant really do much to a competent samus.

-depending on the skill of the ic player, yea. if the player really knows how to use nana then youd want to get rid of her. if thet get separated, and you have a shot to kill popo, still take it of course.

id wait for someone with more experience to tell you more about the rest. hope something helps you out.
 

Poehlcat

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 17, 2007
Messages
147
Location
Richmond, VA
Deadcow has it right about nair > shine. I usually use it for priority reasons, too. For example, approaching with nairs do well against a character like. Captain Falcon because it outprioritizes all of C. Falcs aerials, including his nair, so you can definitely challenge his attack with one of your own and start a combo.

Shine > Usmash definitely works, but if your opponent is at the percentage where you can do it, you probably you have better options that wilol do more damage. Shine > dair > shine > dair > utilt > upair, etc. I definitely use upsmashes to end comboes on occasion though.

Shffled upairs work well when your opponent is on a platform. I've found that a lot of times it will shieldstab when you're underneath them, and it can also just be used to keep an opponent up in the air. Also it obviously has more vertical range than, say, a bair, so you're probably more likely to hit with it if you're coming from below.

There definitely are differences. Fox, Falco, C Falc, etc. are really easy to shine combo, and you'll probably use the types of shine combos you already know. Samus, on the other hand, is not as easy because of her floatiness. At low percentage, you might be able to get shine > dair > utilt > some other aerial, but that's about it. I actually like to use upairs against Samus to deal damage and try to keep her in the air, because her dair is not easy to hit with when coming down and if you're good enough you can sometimes hit two or more before she touches the ground.

IC's are definitely a different matchup that requires some experience to know well. You're coming down on two shields with your aerial, and thus the L-cancel timing is different, and you definitely should so that you don't get shieldgrabbed because IC grab = ****. You should definitely kill Nana whenever you can, or at least keep them separated, because one IC is a lot easier to deal with. If you can get an easy gimp on Nana, by all means go for it, even it means you might get grabbed by Popo, because a dead Nana is worth a little extra damage, especially if it's near the beginning of the IC's stock.

Against the IC's - Do not get grabbed. The IC's main combo starters are the Dthrow and dash attack. As long as you L-cancel properly and weave in and out of their range controlling the stage with lasers, you should do well. As a Falco player in general, and definitely agianst the IC's, it would be useful to learn how to ledgetech as well, because when you're recovering from below you will get smashed by the IC's, and in many cases their edgegurard moves are techable, allowing you to survive longer. And most people know that you cannot grab the IC's because the other one will just dsmash you, but Falco can. If you grab one of them, don't jab them at all but immediately dthrow. The lasers from the throw will hit both of them and the other IC won't be able to attack you., If you grabbed Nana, you can follow it up with a shine, dmash, dtilt, or whatever because she won't tech it.
 

Vro

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Messages
1,661
Location
Chicago
Your first three questions involve non-orthodox moves. They are non-orthodox for a reason. But sometimes you see or hear them for a reason as well. The more you play, the more likely you'll figure them out. They have very limited use, so don't harp too much on them.

As the two people before me said nair - shine has more priority. It is also faster. Use at your own discretion.
Shine - Usmash is just a quick combo. Not very good to follow up. Again, discretion.
Uair is two hits and is not as fast or as hard hitting as dair. Mindgames + discretion.

Pillaring or dair - shine combo? They are different. You can pillar anyone. You cannot dair - shine combo effectively anyone floatier than say.. shiek/marth.

Go to one of the stickies on falco specific matchups for all information on that. It gets updated from time to time.

Ledge cancelling.. look up phanna on youtube. You'll see it in action. If you end an attack and 'slip' off the edge of a platform at the same time, you negate basically all lag. Situational? Yes. Sweet? Absolutely.
 

Junpappy

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 18, 2006
Messages
1,439
Location
aZ
1. Nair has more priority like everyone else already mentioned.
2. Shine > usmash is never useful
3. Shuffled uair can be useful to hit opponents when they're stunned and are at a percentage when they can tech the dair.
4. Pillaring against a Samus = NO. Same goes for Bowser but you shouldn't pillar much in general.
5. Learn Fox.
6. See number 5.
7. Ledge canceling is when you bypass the lag from a move by either landing on the edge of a platform and going into the wobbling animation, or by sliding off the edge from your momentum.
 
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