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A Common Misconception about LLC (Landing Lag Cancelling)

ATH_

Smash Ace
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Landing Lag Cancelling: Cancelling the landing lag of any move used in the air by using an aerial before touching the ground.

How it works: The landing lag you get from any move is determined by what was the LAST move you have used before touching the ground. By using an Aerial with little landing lag before touching the ground (depends on the frame of the aerial you were on, not to mention) , you'll get the landing lag for that aerial rather than anything else you did before it, or cancelled lag all together.

Misconception? I've seen lots of people making tutorials about "Cancelling Air Dodge Landing Lag" and "PK Fire Lag Cancel" and a ton of other things that are all the same. They are all cancelled by using an Aerial with less landing lag right before you touch the ground. It's not an issue, but it IS a misunderstanding.

Instead of making a video series about all the different moves you can cancel with this (which is any move that you are not put into helpless mode after), we should just have a simple term for cancelling them all.

I will say, I believe there ARE certain niche moves that are not cancelled by using an aerial, but I am not sure about which ones those are. I think some moves have so much lag that they take priority over the aerial's lag. Just a theory though.

EDIT: This is NOT claiming that using an aerial will cancel ALL of the landing lag. You still get landing lag but you only get the lag that you would from doing the aerial, as it was the LAST thing you did before hitting the ground.
 
Last edited:

Lavani

Indigo Destiny
Joined
Oct 24, 2014
Messages
7,256
How it works: The landing lag you get from any move is determined by what was the LAST move you have used before touching the ground. By using an Aerial with little landing lag before touching the ground, you'll get the landing lag for that aerial rather than anything else you did before it.
This isn't exactly accurate. During aerial actions, there's a set range of frames during which you'll suffer the move's landing lag, and the frames outside that range are referred to as the autocancel window - which is the same sort of landing as if you'd done nothing. With the moves that can have their landing lag "cancelled", there's a FAF that occurs before the autocancel window, allowing you to cancel the action into an aerial and land during the aerial's autocancel frames instead.

Using airdodging Greninja as an example, let's say the autocancel window for airdodges is <2f 37f> (before 2f, after 37f; this is just a hypothetical number set). The left Greninja airdodges and lands on frame 34 - not outside the autocancel window, so he suffers airdodge landing lag. The right Greninja actually airdodges 2 frames later, so he lands on frame 32 - still within airdodge's landing lag. BUT, airdodges have a 31f FAF, which lets him use nair (1~9f startup autocancel) and land normally instead.

Short, simple answer: Using moves in the air doesn't magically mean you'll have landing lag, these cancels exist because it's possible to use a different move before the first action's autocancel.
 

ATH_

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 7, 2014
Messages
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This isn't exactly accurate. During aerial actions, there's a set range of frames during which you'll suffer the move's landing lag, and the frames outside that range are referred to as the autocancel window - which is the same sort of landing as if you'd done nothing. With the moves that can have their landing lag "cancelled", there's a FAF that occurs before the autocancel window, allowing you to cancel the action into an aerial and land during the aerial's autocancel frames instead.

Using airdodging Greninja as an example, let's say the autocancel window for airdodges is <2f 37f> (before 2f, after 37f; this is just a hypothetical number set). The left Greninja airdodges and lands on frame 34 - not outside the autocancel window, so he suffers airdodge landing lag. The right Greninja actually airdodges 2 frames later, so he lands on frame 32 - still within airdodge's landing lag. BUT, airdodges have a 31f FAF, which lets him use nair (1~9f startup autocancel) and land normally instead.

Short, simple answer: Using moves in the air doesn't magically mean you'll have landing lag, these cancels exist because it's possible to use a different move before the first action's autocancel.
Huh, okay, this puts it in good wording. I was going to add that certain frames of said moves are what give you the cancelled lag, but I couldn't find a very good way or showing it. Thanks ^^
 

T0MMY

Smash Master
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Sep 20, 2005
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3,351
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This isn't exactly accurate. During aerial actions, there's a set range of frames during which you'll suffer the move's landing lag, and the frames outside that range are referred to as the autocancel window - which is the same sort of landing as if you'd done nothing. With the moves that can have their landing lag "cancelled", there's a FAF that occurs before the autocancel window, allowing you to cancel the action into an aerial and land during the aerial's autocancel frames instead.
Didn't see FAF defined nor what the acronym stood for. But the post was well descriptive.
 

mimgrim

Smash Hero
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Jun 20, 2013
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Didn't see FAF defined nor what the acronym stood for. But the post was well descriptive.
FAF stands for "First Actionable Frame".

It's also known as IASA or "interrupt as soon as possible". Basically interrupting a move before the animation ends.
 
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