4v4 Competitive Play?

[GoogleSama]

*Posted this in r/NintendoSwitch, but I thought I'd post here, too.
I just watched the Nintendo Switch Reveal Trailer again and saw the segment that puts E-Sports into light. They highlight 4v4. Afterward, I saw a Gamexplain video on SSBU, where they had their own speculation about where everyone's switch could have their own restricted field of view when playing with others.

If Nintendo wants to get into team-based E-Sports, where else would they go to beside Super Smash Bros? Look at the success behind smash tournaments that are going on now.
This would also help bring back popularity to their large maps and create an alternative way to play 8-Player mode (Which would take away the shared experience, obviously.. but it means more money for them). They could very well do some League of Legends stuff here if they really wanted to.. I mean, there are over 60 characters already. Like, how could they possibly ignore games like Overwatch? They're constantly releasing new heroes. Nintendo would not need to do that.

I know this sounds crazy and is purely based off of speculation. But, all I am saying is to just imagine a 4v4 Mode on a gigantic map with your own restricted field of view that follows your character.. Your 4-man team is making call-outs to find the enemy that they counter. Peril.. your entire team dies and it's up to you to finish the last two players on the enemy team that are both at 1-stock. Luckily, you've been kicking ass and you have two lives left.

They're always trying something unique and innovative. Because, since they've shown a clear interest in team-based E-sports... Something crazy is going on. It's Nintendo. Why would they highlight Competitive play in their reveal trailer for just Splatoon? What competitive game could they possibly prepare for a 4v4 mode?

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

I don't imagine a new mode wherein the camera hides stuff since getting hit from off-screen would be a pretty garbage player experience (it's the sort of thing that makes people hate stage hazards, not better if another player is doing it), but in general, quads works fine competitively from a game dynamics standpoint. It will likely work even better in Ultimate in fact because now it can be played on every stage which will include stages like Coliseum that are clearly very well built for quads but previously just not allowed by the game.

The reason that quads isn't popular in tournaments is because the human side is difficult to manage. To have a real quads team, you need a group of four guys who can practice together regularly and pick characters that have good collective synergy. That's really hard to find. Then you have to have enough people interested at any given event in dealing with this to have a large enough number of teams to have an interesting tournament. You really need at least 8 teams to have an interesting tournament so right off the bat any smaller local with under 32 people is already doomed. When you consider the non-participation rate and the practice problems filtering people and such, you quickly begin to see that only regionals on the larger end and nationals are really big enough to effectively support quads events which is also too infrequent of a rate to have these events for them to gain traction.

I could see quads gaining ground if a few things line up. Online play needs to work well in 4v4 so people can practice regularly, and with typical American internet I totally doubt that will happen, but who knows maybe Ultimate will have just god tier netcode unlike Brawl which had laughable netcode and 4 which has very mediocre netcode. Smash Ultimate would also have to be just such a huge success that the community dwarfs all previous smash communities; if the game is so popular that locals become what regionals used to be, regionals look like nationals, and nationals are just a new beast unlike we've ever seen, then maybe we will have the body count to make quads work better. I sure wouldn't hold my breath on all that, but hey, if you're a huge optimist, maybe it will all work out. The gameplay itself is already good enough so it's really just a question of practical logistics for quads to work.

 

[GoogleSama]

I don't imagine a new mode wherein the camera hides stuff since getting hit from off-screen would be a pretty garbage player experience (it's the sort of thing that makes people hate stage hazards, not better if another player is doing it), but in general, quads works fine competitively from a game dynamics standpoint. It will likely work even better in Ultimate in fact because now it can be played on every stage which will include stages like Coliseum that are clearly very well built for quads but previously just not allowed by the game.

The reason that quads isn't popular in tournaments is because the human side is difficult to manage. To have a real quads team, you need a group of four guys who can practice together regularly and pick characters that have good collective synergy. That's really hard to find. Then you have to have enough people interested at any given event in dealing with this to have a large enough number of teams to have an interesting tournament. You really need at least 8 teams to have an interesting tournament so right off the bat any smaller local with under 32 people is already doomed. When you consider the non-participation rate and the practice problems filtering people and such, you quickly begin to see that only regionals on the larger end and nationals are really big enough to effectively support quads events which is also too infrequent of a rate to have these events for them to gain traction.

I could see quads gaining ground if a few things line up. Online play needs to work well in 4v4 so people can practice regularly, and with typical American internet I totally doubt that will happen, but who knows maybe Ultimate will have just god tier netcode unlike Brawl which had laughable netcode and 4 which has very mediocre netcode. Smash Ultimate would also have to be just such a huge success that the community dwarfs all previous smash communities; if the game is so popular that locals become what regionals used to be, regionals look like nationals, and nationals are just a new beast unlike we've ever seen, then maybe we will have the body count to make quads work better. I sure wouldn't hold my breath on all that, but hey, if you're a huge optimist, maybe it will all work out. The gameplay itself is already good enough so it's really just a question of practical logistics for quads to work.

I hear ya on that. I hated assist trophies that jacked with the camera. And target audience could be a problem for such events. I think my primary point, though, is.. What game could they possibly prepare for a 4v4 competitive mode? They showed it on the switch reveal trailer after all. I just can't imagine Nintendo creating a strong 8-player multiplayer experience that would be team-based where all 8 characters are simultaneously playing on a tour ament level.

 

[PURGE THEM LIKE THE]

I wouldn't participate simply because it's hard enough to keep track of 3 other peeps. Adding 4 more is just a mess.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

I mean there was at least a little 4v4 in Wii U's early lifetime. Gameplay wise it worked fine. Here's a random tournament set I could find:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivbJj2kPF28

Most normal tournament stages are too small for 4v4 but there are other stages. In Wii U I think most people would have said the best three 4v4 stages were Big Battlefield, Pyrosphere (it got rid of Ridley), and Temple. Hyrule Castle probably would have worked great too, but by the time the DLC hit, I think quads had largely stopped seeing play. However, the dynamics change a lot and things like walk-offs aren't really a problem so a lot more stages will work (hilariously, Palutena's Temple is still way, way too big though), and unlike in Wii U, we'll be able to pick any stage in the game which means that a lot of stages that were previously just not allowed but had good designs for 4v4 will be in (again, Coliseum is such an obvious case). The mechanics are already present; Nintendo doesn't really need to do anything in that regard.