48 Characters...If true, will that make an accurate tier list impossible?

[OddCrow]

(do not come in here to debate the relevance/existance or tiers, no one cares, also, please no Metaknights(or any other character) for top tier lulzzz(or any other tier predictions))

Well, assume that the article that say 48 characters is true. Now. Assume that can mean one of three things.

48 Character select icons
48 Characters including transformations (which would make the game 43 select screen icons)
48 Characters not including transformations (which would make 53 select screen icons)

whichever way it turns out (if it does at all turn out be true) wouldn't that make a Tier either VERY hard or IMPOSSIBLE to compile? I mean, with 43-53 unique characters, that would leave us to a constantly changing meta-game. And everytime a new tier list is compiled a new character/strategy might emerge.

Thoughts? Comments? Discussion?

 

[ValiantVernon]

tiers r dumb anyways they dont really apply to brawl or melee like they do to extremely unbalanced games like street fighter just cause someone is playing as marth doesnt mean Link cant win it happens all the time even with 2 pro players.

 

[Nabassu]

No, just look at Marvel Vs. Capcom 2, which had some where around 55 characters, they had a tier list. The only characters that matter in a tier list is the top 5 anyway, who cares how the rest are ranked.

 

[T.U.C.]

that are enough characters for me

 

[CO18]

Quite sure a tier list will still be made, although there doesn't really need to be one.

 

[OddCrow]

T.U.C. that post made no sense nor did it have purpose.

Marvel Vs. Capcom isn't as deep a fighting as Smash Melee. And it would look to continue that way. It's seems hard to make a tier list with 43-53 characters in a game as deep as brawl. And also, will final smashes fit into the tier list, or even a separate tier list which takes FS into account?

 

[MysticKenji]

As long as there are tournies, there will be a tier list imo.

 

[00Elf]

A little off topic, but where did this whole 48 character thing come from anyway?

 

[OddCrow]

from a japanese scan of a page from famitsu. which claimed the game had 48 characters.
I know there WILL be a tier list, a few in fact. but an ACCURATE one is what I'm unsure about.

 

[TiersAreReal]

The number of characters is irrelevant. Since you know tiers exist and what they are, you know that some characters are better than others are. This is a fact, and it doesn't change the ability to make a tier list. It'll just take longer to figure everything out, but the list will be made eventually.

 

[OddCrow]

it is obvious that some characters are better than others (no one with any common sense will dispute this) but the sheer number of characters combined with the MASSIVE depth of this game will make tier lists hard to make, and after that, I don't think any tier lists will stick around for any longer than about 2 months anyways.

 

[yoshi_fan]

Who cares about tiers lists?

Go with your favorite character and win.

That's all

 

[Davidius]

I'm not familiar with this concept.

 

[LuiStrokes]

48??


wow

*searchs for a thread with possible rosters*

 

[Pyr0]

3 words: Math Ranking system.

I'll post more about it once tournaments are in the makings.

 

[Banjodorf]

Famitsu has been reliable. I think we should expect 48. As far as tiers, I think they can still be made, # of characters wont make a difference, it will just take longer to determine.

I personally dont like tiers however, and will play Olimar and PT (mostly Squirtle) even if Olimar and Squirtle are low tier.

 

[The Director]

It's way too early to be thinking about tiers. We need to have the game for a couple of months before we can determine a tier list.

 

[Darkfur]

48 Character select icons
48 Characters including transformations (which would make the game 43 select screen icons)
48 Characters not including transformations (which would make 53 select screen icons)

That can't be accurate. That's going under the assumption that none of the unknown characters will be transforming characters.

 

[Do-Ryu]

lol i agree with Yoshi_Fan i doesn't matter who's good or not if your really good with a certain or several certain characters then you should just try to mow down whoever you face.

 

[Corner-Trap]

Well I'm just a lurker here, but I just had to comment on this thread, it really shows some of the ignorance y'all have about tier lists and the street fighter community.

 

[aruby14]

where did you guys read the 48 char's thing?

 

[shipoffools]

over a span of years i'm sure the number of characters will not be a problem.

 

[okiyama]

No, just look at Marvel Vs. Capcom 2, which had some where around 55 characters, they had a tier list. The only characters that matter in a tier list is the top 5 anyway, who cares how the rest are ranked.

I would actually disagree, people care how there character is listed, low tier is either people playing for fun or as a joke, high tier is those that can't stand to lose and mid tier is usually more casual players.

You sound like a Shiek main. ;D

 

[Do-Ryu]

Just a thought but does anybody know if there will be any sort of online downloadable content?

 

[Team Giza]

~double post~

 

[Team Giza]

Marvel Vs. Capcom isn't as deep a fighting as Smash Melee. And it would look to continue that way. It's seems hard to make a tier list with 43-53 characters in a game as deep as brawl. And also, will final smashes fit into the tier list, or even a separate tier list which takes FS into account?

Don't play much Marvel vs Capcom 2, do you? SCOOPS, Häagen-Dazs! Guess its not that hard since most characters in MvC2 are horrible when compared to the top ones.

tiers r dumb anyways they dont really apply to brawl or melee like they do to extremely unbalanced games like street fighter just cause someone is playing as marth doesnt mean Link cant win it happens all the time even with 2 pro players.

... which Street Fighter have you been playing? :/ Plus... tiers have definite meaning. They are character potential and if two people are fighting each other at high levels which character has the edge in the match. Its a generalization though, since sometimes a mid-tier can still be a counter for a high tier.

 

[freeman123]

OddCrow
48 Characters including transformations (which would make the game 43 select screen icons)

No, it would be 44. You only subtract Sheik, Zamus, Ivysaur, and Charizard. You don't count Squirtle, because he's the standard form, like Zelda and Samus. Pokemon Trainer counts as 3 characters, not 4.

OddCrow
48 Characters not including transformations (which would make 53 select screen icons)

Why would the transformation have their own icons on the character selection screen? And even if they did, it would be 52 not 53.

There will always be a tier list. Adding a bunch of characters doesn't change the fact that some characters will inevitably be better than others. In fact, more characters just make it more likely that there will be ridiculously broken characters and a crap load of useless characters.

If you're asking if it'll be too difficult to determine an accurate tier list, that will be a matter of opinion. They'll come up with a tier list, some people will agree with it and others won't. I don't even think that the tier list they have right now for Melee is 100% accurate.

 

[Nonchalant]

Well seeing as how I doubt anyone has a good understanding what a Tier really is any way, to get an 'accurate' description of something no one can 'accurately' describe would indeed be hard. And yes more characters would make it harder.

There is no need for tiers any way, ya know? It shouldn't affect anything, not excuses not your character choice, not with the way it's made now.

 

[Tatsujinken]

over a span of years i'm sure the number of characters will not be a problem.

This, pretty much. We'll learn everything as we go, it's just going to take some time.

 

[NeoZ]

The "48 characters" thing is NOT from famitsu, it's from a newspaper article that hasn't been proven to be true.

 

[Finn Macool]

seeing a smash bros has been delayed for so long for "balancing" the tiers may not be as important as they were in melee hopefully sakurai can make a game with minimal difference between the top and botto characters

 

[yoshi_fan]

I would actually disagree, people care how there character is listed, low tier is either people playing for fun or as a joke, high tier is those that can't stand to lose and mid tier is usually more casual players.

You sound like a Shiek main. ;D

mmm...

relly...

that...

sound...

Then don't complain when the people hates pros, you know... there is some pros good with middle tiers and low tiers ¬¬

The only thing i want is a balanced (but not simple) game

 

[Matt Silver]

I don't care for tiers, but I think some people can make something passable out of 48 characters.

 

[Rhubarbo]

Funny how no one is questioning where these claims were made from, no?

 

[PozerWolf]

It's possible to make an accurate tier for any game regardless of how my characters can be selected.

I don't understand how Street Fighter was put into this conversation (very random), but all fighting games have there bad characters and good characters. No fighting game out there is perfectly balanced.

With that said, I'm sure some of you guys stated how Link vs Marth, sometimes the Link player wins, whatever. Showing the balance of the game because Link is listed lower than Marth. Thing about that logic is that any fighting game out there has the same principle.

Melee is not a balanced game at all, in fact the balance issues are as bad as Marvel Vs Capcom 2 (there is a reason why people call Melee; MvC2 jr).
And in the end, there really is just no argument against that.


To answer the question, yes it is possible to make a accurate tier list for this game.
Does that make the game any more or less imbalanced or fun? No.
Pick whoever suits you the best, and if you're character just happens to be good then good for you. If not, hell, don't mean you don't have a fighting chance.

 

[:034:]

Jump Ultimate Stars has a tier list. I believe that game has about 50 characters.

 

[turboether]

i doubt very much there will be 48 separate movesets. 48 characters can be easily shoehorned in as costume changes ala warios overalls costume (lucas with a ness model anyone?)

 

[True Fool]

The match-ups/counter-characters are all I really care about when it comes to tiers.

It is impossible to make this game balanced. And I don't mean perfectly balanced, I mean plain old balanced. You can't do it with so many unique movesets and attributes, every character is bound to either beat the hell out some certain characters, or take serious beatings from other characters.

Marth is high-tier, but Gannon, on the bottom of mid-tier has an even match-up with him. Marth and Sheik, who are both on the high tier, Sheik beats him 7-3. And against Fox on the top-tier, Marth has a slight edge with a 6-4.

There is no way that every character will be evenly matched with every other character.

And on the original subject, I think it'll take a good 7 months after the JP release to get a tier list, and I would bet on it being debated constantly, as well as the possibility of it being changed much more frequently than the Melee tier list.

 

[OrlanduEX]

I think the people here need to understand the purpose of a tier list.

Tier lists are based SPECIFICALLY on tournament results (well the current one is at least).
They are made to show how each character is currently fairing in tournaments compared to all others.
I hate it when people say there is no point in tier lists because "any character can beat any other character."
Tier lists are not made to dictate who will always beat who and they certainly shouldn't be used to determine which character you choose to main. They are there to show which characters are currently dominating the competitive scene, which characters are being overlooked/ignored, and everyone in between. As we learn more about the game, the usage of a character in competitive play can change considerably, and so the tier list itself changes.
If you don't play Smash at a highly competitive level against other skillful players, the tier list doesn't even matter to you really.

 

[KoopaKoot]

MVC2 Has a tier list and it has over 50 characters.