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3ds version WILL NOT HOLD BACK THE WIIU VERSION

Do you think the 3ds version will hold back the WiiU one?


  • Total voters
    105

BioZelink

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People keep saying how the 3ds version is going to hold back the WiiU one, either by character Number or the removal of dual characters ala IC's.

-Think about it a little, the 3ds Is more powerful than a gamecube, so it can easily handle everything Melee did. I mean Olimar has been confirmed for the thing, don't know if you've noticed but the guy has a couple of AI controlled dudes.

-It has 8 gigabytes of cartridge space, for comparison Brawl was 7.54 GB, and the 3ds one will have smaller textures and no Cutscenes. So the space and power arguments are completely invalid..

-Also consider that Tekken 3d Prime edition had 41 character and it was on a 2gb cartridge. Space is no issue here.

- Kid Icarus Uprising had really great and smooth Multyplayer, 6 players would fight it out in a huge map using huge special attack at an incredibly fast pace, and it worked like a charm without any lag.

I really don't know what the point is here. People seem to view handhelds as inferior, but the thing is this handheld, the 3ds has a huuuuuuge number of absolutely excellent games, there is no reason to think smash would be any different.
 

Curious Villager

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I'm debating with myself whether or not I should keep this thread open since I can kinda smell a flame war brewing from it. And we kinda already have this thread which more or less discusses a very similar thing.

Ah well, I'll give it some time for now...

Anyway, I doubt Sakurai would have put in a ton of characters anyway, even if there was no 3DS version. He's concentrating more on balance and he actually felt that Brawl's roster was a nice number, that doesn't mean that the new roster would be as big as Brawl but he's not planning to go overboard with it really. Not to mention, minus the space and time hogging thing that was the Subspace Emmisary not returning and whatnot, I think the 3DS version will hold up just fine without hindering the Wii U version.

Anyway, that's just my opinion on the matter...
 

Muster

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I think smash for 3ds will use the 2gb cartridge. From what i've heard, 4 and 8 GB cartridges cost a lot more to make. Not saying this will hold back sm4sh, however.
 

BioZelink

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Kikwi-kiwi - Thanks for letting the thread stay. Seems there is no flame war. It's a good thing that Sakurai said he would focus on balance, even if the roster is smaller. Sakurai recently said that having a daily picture of all final smashes would take over a weak, so it seems we will have at least as much characters as Brawl.
Muster - Cartridges have been getting cheaper and cheaper with time, i don't think price would be an issue.
 

Muster

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Kikwi-kiwi - Thanks for letting the thread stay. Seems there is no flame war. It's a good thing that Sakurai said he would focus on balance, even if the roster is smaller. Sakurai recently said that having a daily picture of all final smashes would take over a weak, so it seems we will have at least as much characters as Brawl.
Muster - Cartridges have been getting cheaper and cheaper with time, i don't think price would be an issue.
The 8 GB carts have not even been used for games yet, and neither has the 4. 512mb was the biggest cart size for the ds, and that was mainly used late in the ds life cycle by games like ni no kuni and black 2/ white 2.
If the SSE is completely cut out of brawl, however, the game is a lot closer to 4GB in size. Compression has improved over the years and the game is a lower quality resolution than the wii version, so size in a 4gb cart is not a problem.
 
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BioZelink

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The 8 GB carts have not even been used for games yet, and neither has the 4. 512mb was the biggest cart size for the ds, and that was mainly used late in the ds life cycle by games like shi no kuni and black 2/ white 2.
If the SSE is completely cut out of brawl, however, the game is a lot closer to 4GB in size. Compression has improved over the years and the game is a lower quality resolution than the wii version, so size in a 4gb cart is not a problem.
Yes you are completely right. Even if they completely remade brawl for the 3ds it will probably fit on a 4gb cartridge. Also Resident Evil Revelations, Bravely default and Donkey Cong 3d all used 4gb cartridges.
Kid Icarus had a humongous amount of content in the game, and it fit on a 2gb card, so clearly Space is not a limit at all.
 

ChibiIceClimberz

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Will the 3DS version hold back the Wii U version? Perhaps. But can it? Definitely. At this point, a character's entry to the game isn't an issue anymore. The 3DS version holding back the Wii U version will merely limit the creativity of the developers they want on both versions, and that's all to it. We also haven't seen how these multiple AI characters run on the 3DS version. This could all mean that it'll limit the characters' potential for having a good moveset, for example.

I do, however, want to correct on what you've said wrong.

First, cartridge size has nothing to do with all of this. They handle memory size, not technical data, so we don't have to worry how many characters, stages, songs, modes, and other content both versions will have. The 3DS version can have everything Brawl has, but the graphics and performance? They will be dumbed down because the 3DS can't handle all the big details while running the game, which will be explained below.

Second, the 3DS is only more powerful than the GameCube and Wii in terms of GPU power, not CPU. The 3DS's graphics allow games to easily look like PS3 and Xbox 360 games mostly due to the use of programmable shaders, as seen in many 3DS games today. The small screen and low resolution also help to make them look good considering they can hide low resolution textures.

But the CPU and performance? The 3DS, compared to the GameCube and Wii, already has inferior polygon count to begin with. If you were to increase the amount of polygons a model has, you're just making the game run worse. The quality of the graphics sacrificed determines what the performance will be. There's a reason why Kid Icarus: Uprising only runs at 30 FPS with frame drops: the game sacrifices the amount of polygons, texture details, animation quality, and other graphics in order for more action and enemies to appear on screen.

Oh, but there's Mario Kart 7, which runs at a solid 60 FPS with a lot of AI on screen. But did you know the game features very low polygon count, low quality textures, low quality animations, no character interaction while racing, and even less chaos compared to previous console Mario Kart games like Mario Kart Wii, which featured rubber banding and an unbalanced item system? There was a reason why Mario Kart 7 was balanced—items appear less, slower Bullet Bills, slower Stars, slower Mushrooms, and etc—and that was all presumably to make the game run smoothly.
 

BigHairyFart

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I think smash for 3ds will use the 2gb cartridge. From what i've heard, 4 and 8 GB cartridges cost a lot more to make. Not saying this will hold back sm4sh, however.
Yes, but this is without a doubt the most anticipated game of 2014. Even if they were going to spend more with the 8GB cart, you know that they would use every bit of space on that thing, and it will sell like crazy once release hits, so there's virtually no way they wouldn't make money on using the 8GB cart. And even if they did lose money on it, Nintendo has made so much bank that they could suffer huge losses for years and still remain in business.
 

BioZelink

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Will the 3DS version hold back the Wii U version? Perhaps. But can it? Definitely. At this point, a character's entry to the game isn't an issue anymore. The 3DS version holding back the Wii U version will merely limit the creativity of the developers they want on both versions, and that's all to it. We also haven't seen how these multiple AI characters run on the 3DS version. This could all mean that it'll limit the characters' potential for having a good moveset, for example.

I do, however, want to correct on what you've said wrong.

First, cartridge size has nothing to do with all of this. They handle memory size, not technical data, so we don't have to worry how many characters, stages, songs, modes, and other content both versions will have. The 3DS version can have everything Brawl has, but the graphics and performance? They will be dumbed down because the 3DS can't handle all the big details while running the game, which will be explained below.

Second, the 3DS is only more powerful than the GameCube and Wii in terms of GPU power, not CPU. The 3DS's graphics allow games to easily look like PS3 and Xbox 360 games mostly due to the use of programmable shaders, as seen in many 3DS games today. The small screen and low resolution also help to make them look good considering they can hide low resolution textures.

But the CPU and performance? The 3DS, compared to the GameCube and Wii, already has inferior polygon count to begin with. If you were to increase the amount of polygons a model has, you're just making the game run worse. The quality of the graphics sacrificed determines what the performance will be. There's a reason why Kid Icarus: Uprising only runs at 30 FPS with frame drops: the game sacrifices the amount of polygons, texture details, animation quality, and other graphics in order for more action and enemies to appear on screen.

Oh, but there's Mario Kart 7, which runs at a solid 60 FPS with a lot of AI on screen. But did you know the game features very low polygon count, low quality textures, low quality animations, no character interaction while racing, and even less chaos compared to previous console Mario Kart games like Mario Kart Wii, which featured rubber banding and an unbalanced item system? There was a reason why Mario Kart 7 was balanced—items appear less, slower Bullet Bills, slower Stars, slower Mushrooms, and etc—and that was all presumably to make the game run smoothly.
Ok i guess it is my turn. First of all the 3ds has a dual core CPU: 266MHz ARM11, while the gamecube has a single core CPU: 485MHz IBM Gekko PowerPC. I won't get all technical, but DUAL CORE IS BETTER. The cores are clocked at a lower frequency, but the two cores are still more effective. Your first point is pointless.
Secondly, Kid Icarus Uprising doesn't have frame drops, even in multyplayer. It's never 60 fps, but it always runs more than smooth. I've played more than 250hours of that game, so i'm pretty sure my opinion has some weight on the issue. You've probably only seen the game on screenshots, because the game looks Gorgeous. It doesn't have the highest polygon count, but it looks really good on the 3ds's screen itself.

Mario Kart 7, yet again looks pretty good(it doesn't matter if polygons are lots or not, if it looks good on the system!). I don't know where you've heard there is no character interaction while racing, because that is NOT TRUE( i would've noticen with my 80 hours playing). Items did not appear less, Bullet bills propelled you to first position before( that was on the DS...they were faster there...is it more powerful) ...balancing.

It seems like you've based all your points on things you've read and screenshots you have seen. Trust me, things are always different whit the real deal in your hands. Does the 3ds have limits? Hell yes, if Sakura want's to make a Wonderful 101 character with all 101 in the same time, then yes 3ds version will hold back the WiiU one. Would he do it? Probably not. The WiiU version has it's limit's too, they are a lot lowe(or higher?) than the 3ds, yes. But, for a game such as Smash Bros, the 3ds is equipped more than well enough to handle the game.
Also we have Olimar confirmed, and he is an Npc using character with more NPC's than IC, and in it's current state the game looks on par or even Better than Melee(on a small screen of course).
PS-it's normal for games to have lower polygon count and less detailed textures when they are on a handheld...
PS2- i'm not trying to be an A-hole or outright disregard your opinion and points. I'm basing mine on my experience of the system, which is a lot more reliable than anything else. For any other kind of game, maybe like X, Wonderful 101 and such, the 3ds definitely won't be able to keep up. But for a 2.5d fighting game, we won't have any major setbacks.

Yes, but this is without a doubt the most anticipated game of 2014. Even if they were going to spend more with the 8GB cart, you know that they would use every bit of space on that thing, and it will sell like crazy once release hits, so there's virtually no way they wouldn't make money on using the 8GB cart. And even if they did lose money on it, Nintendo has made so much bank that they could suffer huge losses for years and still remain in business.
Haha Yeah for Smash they would spend a bit more money. Look at Brawl, they put it on a dual layer disc, i think that is the only game using one.
 
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ChibiIceClimberz

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Ok i guess it is my turn. First of all the 3ds has a dual core CPU: 266MHz ARM11, while the gamecube has a single core CPU: 485MHz IBM Gekko PowerPC. I won't get all technical, but DUAL CORE IS BETTER. The cores are clocked at a lower frequency, but the two cores are still more effective. Your first point is pointless.
Secondly, Kid Icarus Uprising doesn't have frame drops, even in multyplayer. It's never 60 fps, but it always runs more than smooth. I've played more than 250hours of that game, so i'm pretty sure my opinion has some weight on the issue. You've probably only seen the game on screenshots, because the game looks Gorgeous. It doesn't have the highest polygon count, but it looks really good on the 3ds's screen itself.

Mario Kart 7, yet again looks pretty good(it doesn't matter if polygons are lots or not, if it looks good on the system!). I don't know where you've heard there is no character interaction while racing, because that is NOT TRUE( i would've noticen with my 80 hours playing). Items did not appear less, Bullet bills propelled you to first position before( that was on the DS...they were faster there...is it more powerful) ...balancing.

It seems like you've based all your points on things you've read and screenshots you have seen. Trust me, things are always different whit the real deal in your hands. Does the 3ds have limits? Hell yes, if Sakura want's to make a Wonderful 101 character with all 101 in the same time, then yes 3ds version will hold back the WiiU one. Would he do it? Probably not. The WiiU version has it's limit's too, they are a lot lowe(or higher?) than the 3ds, yes. But, for a game such as Smash Bros, the 3ds is equipped more than well enough to handle the game.
Also we have Olimar confirmed, and he is an Npc using character with more NPC's than IC, and in it's current state the game looks on par or even Better than Melee(on a small screen of course).
PS-it's normal for games to have lower polygon count and less detailed textures when they are on a handheld...
PS2- i'm not trying to be an A-hole or outright disregard your opinion and points. I'm basing mine on my experience of the system, which is a lot more reliable than anything else. For any other kind of game, maybe like X, Wonderful 101 and such, the 3ds definitely won't be able to keep up. But for a 2.5d fighting game, we won't have any major setbacks.
I feel that you've misunderstood me a little, but my point is that it's inevitable that the 3DS version can and will hold back the Wii U version, regardless. Whether that hindrance is big or small, some things will be held back. I don't think a character's chances of being included isn't a problem anymore, rather the creativity of the developers will be limited such as a good moveset. There are also development resources to worry about rather than the game itself. Then there's the fact that if both versions release simultaneously, the Wii U version will be cannibalized in sales given the Wii U's dire situation as of late.

But for your other points, I feel the need to correct you.

Just because something has more of one thing doesn't mean it's better. The 3DS has to work even more with those two cores at only 266MHz, with one core mostly being dedicated to the operating system to enable game suspension and multitasking, while the GameCube can fully clock 485MHz at a single core with nothing running in the background but the game itself. At this point, we should agree to disagree that the 3DS is more than capable in itself and that it isn't more capable than the GameCube or Wii in terms of overall performance.

Polygons and other graphics do matter to a certain extent, especially if you want to know how powerful the system is. It doesn't matter too much for the 3DS given the small screen and low resolution, but the fact remains that if it can't handle high quality graphics with smooth performance, then it's not powerful for sure.

I have definitely played Kid Icarus: Uprising, and it's my favourite 3DS game to date. It does have subtle frame rate drops even in 3D. Of course it's not noticeable to detract from the experience, but it's definitely there.

For Mario Kart 7, items and item chances have definitely been nerfed from Mario Kart Wii. Again, it doesn't feature character interaction at all, which was featured in Double Dash!! and Mario Kart Wii before. What I mean by character interaction is when Mario looks over to his left and right as a racer passes by, and none of that is present in the game. Here are some examples in the latest Mario Kart 8 trailer: Mario receives feedback from Peach; Wario bumps and looks over Baby Mario; Mario receives feedback from Morton and Iggy; Iggy receives feedback from Mario; and Mario and Bowser look at each other before the finish line.
 
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SuperMii3D

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Im not even going to read every post :p I will say that both versions will probably be released on different dates though, so if the Wii-U version is ready and the 3DS Version isnt, then the Wii-U version will sell.
 

ChibiIceClimberz

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Im not even going to read every post :p I will say that both versions will probably be released on different dates though, so if the Wii-U version is ready and the 3DS Version isnt, then the Wii-U version will sell.
I personally want both to release at the same time for a potential bundle day one. But yeah, there's a chance it might be released on different dates, and that'd be totally worthwhile for the Wii U. c:
 
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BioZelink

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I feel that you've misunderstood me a little, but my point is that it's inevitable that the 3DS version can and will hold back the Wii U version, regardless. Whether that hindrance is big or small, some things will be held back. I don't think a character's chances of being included isn't a problem anymore, rather the creativity of the developers will be limited such as a good moveset. There are also development resources to worry about rather than the game itself. Then there's the fact that if both versions release simultaneously, the Wii U version will be cannibalized in sales given the Wii U's dire situation as of late.

But for your other points, I feel the need to correct you.

Just because something has more of one thing doesn't mean it's better. The 3DS has to work even more with those two cores at only 266MHz, with one core mostly being dedicated to the operating system to enable game suspension and multitasking, while the GameCube can fully clock 485MHz at a single core with nothing running in the background but the game itself. At this point, we should agree to disagree that the 3DS is more than capable in itself and that it isn't more capable than the GameCube or Wii in terms of overall performance.

Polygons and other graphics do matter to a certain extent, especially if you want to know how powerful the system is. It doesn't matter too much for the 3DS given the small screen and low resolution, but the fact remains that if it can't handle high quality graphics with smooth performance, then it's not powerful for sure.

I have definitely played Kid Icarus: Uprising, and it's my favourite 3DS game to date. It does have subtle frame rate drops even in 3D. Of course it's not noticeable to detract from the experience, but it's definitely there.

For Mario Kart 7, items and item chances have definitely been nerfed from Mario Kart Wii. Again, it doesn't feature character interaction at all, which was featured in Double Dash!! and Mario Kart Wii before. What I mean by character interaction is when Mario looks over to his left and right as a racer passes by, and none of that is present in the game. Here are some examples in the latest Mario Kart 8 trailer: Mario receives feedback from Peach; Wario bumps and looks over Baby Mario; Mario receives feedback from Morton and Iggy; Iggy receives feedback from Mario; and Mario and Bowser look at each other before the finish line.
Ok, i guess we will agree to disagree :D
Ok, yes the 3ds version could potentially hold back on moveset's and such, but from what we have seen, t new character's have crazier attacks and play stiles than ever. Like a doll controllable character for rosalina, villager's tree, grab everything and smashes that honestly looks like specials, or little mac's super armored specials, his meter, KO move and triple forward smash. It doesn't seem like the developers are holding back, but who knows? Can you think of an actual viable move that the 3ds won't be able to handle. Please i'd like to get an example, just curios.

I will use a little analogy for processor compering. Imagine a hundred bricks that each processor has to move. The single core is one pretty big and strong guy, the dual core is two average people. Even though the big guy could carry a couple more bricks, and probably go to his destination a little faster, but overall the two average guy will finish the job faster and more efficiently. When we talk about processors, architecture is much more important than just clock speed. And architecture has advanced quite a bit between the time gap. But again, we agree to disagree. Also there was a rumor going on on the GC time that the thing is hard to program for, but i can't confirm.I guess another analogy would be with my two smart phones...:D First i had a single core 2ghz processor phone, and i kind of dropped it from the 4th floor...Now i have a dual core 1ghz phone, and let me say it runs games a lot smoother. It even scores better on benchmarks...3ds games look better(yeah i know small screen)

What i absolutely agree on is the point about the development resources and 3ds potentially eating out WiiU sales. However, from what we've seen from the 3ds version, they are focusing on the WiiU version right now. Just look at the 3ds screenshots from after e3, and now look how much the game has advanced graphically(that's all we can see :D). Also, not items or assist trophies have been shown on the portable, which might be because they aren't ready yet. Thanks for the nice conversation. It's nice to see someone make actual points.
 

ChikoLad

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I personally want both to release at the same time for a potential bundle day one. But yeah, there's a chance it might be released on different dates, and that'd be totally worthwhile for the Wii U. c:
Not a chance, it's a definite as of now. Sakurai confirmed back at E3 that both versions wouldn't release on the same day, simply due to the fact that both won't be ready at the same time, as the features differ in the two games. They are not simply making a port, nor are they making a lower budget alternative (and by this, I mean that they are treating Smash 3DS as the AAA 3DS game it deserves to be. It's not like the 3DS versions of Sonic Generations and Sonic Lost World, where they were just quick side projects given to Dimps, a low budget developer. 3DS version's budget is lower than the Wii U version obviously, but it's still a AAA 3DS title). These two versions are basically two separate games to him, albeit closely affiliated ones. They are both projected for a 2014 release (which makes me speculate/hope that the Wii U version comes in October, and the 3DS version comes at the end of November or in December).

Anyway, the 3DS version will hold back the Wii U version. It's more work for Sakurai to oversee, and it possibly hinders the Wii U version's budget and the size of it's dev team.

I think Sakurai will use an 8GB cartridge if he feels the need to. Although Story Mode is gone, we are still getting cutscenes in some shape or form (Sakurai has been vague about it thus far).
 

mimgrim

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The 8 GB carts have not even been used for games yet, and neither has the 4. 512mb was the biggest cart size for the ds, and that was mainly used late in the ds life cycle by games like shi no kuni and black 2/ white 2.
If the SSE is completely cut out of brawl, however, the game is a lot closer to 4GB in size. Compression has improved over the years and the game is a lower quality resolution than the wii version, so size in a 4gb cart is not a problem.
You mean Ni No Kuni?


Anyways OP. I pretty much agree. I don't see the 3DS version holding back the Wii-U versions. But I don't feel like going into detail why. I discussed it enough in another thread.
 

ChibiIceClimberz

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Ok, i guess we will agree to disagree :D
Ok, yes the 3ds version could potentially hold back on moveset's and such, but from what we have seen, t new character's have crazier attacks and play stiles than ever. Like a doll controllable character for rosalina, villager's tree, grab everything and smashes that honestly looks like specials, or little mac's super armored specials, his meter, KO move and triple forward smash. It doesn't seem like the developers are holding back, but who knows? Can you think of an actual viable move that the 3ds won't be able to handle. Please i'd like to get an example, just curios.

I will use a little analogy for processor compering. Imagine a hundred bricks that each processor has to move. The single core is one pretty big and strong guy, the dual core is two average people. Even though the big guy could carry a couple more bricks, and probably go to his destination a little faster, but overall the two average guy will finish the job faster and more efficiently. When we talk about processors, architecture is much more important than just clock speed. And architecture has advanced quite a bit between the time gap. But again, we agree to disagree. Also there was a rumor going on on the GC time that the thing is hard to program for, but i can't confirm.I guess another analogy would be with my two smart phones...:D First i had a single core 2ghz processor phone, and i kind of dropped it from the 4th floor...Now i have a dual core 1ghz phone, and let me say it runs games a lot smoother. It even scores better on benchmarks...3ds games look better(yeah i know small screen)

What i absolutely agree on is the point about the development resources and 3ds potentially eating out WiiU sales. However, from what we've seen from the 3ds version, they are focusing on the WiiU version right now. Just look at the 3ds screenshots from after e3, and now look how much the game has advanced graphically(that's all we can see :D). Also, not items or assist trophies have been shown on the portable, which might be because they aren't ready yet. Thanks for the nice conversation. It's nice to see someone make actual points.
Well, the Wii U version showed all of those, but we didn't see them on the 3DS version in action yet. Because the 3DS version is still presumably behind development, we're not entirely sure if all the movesets have been recreated on said version.

Surely the 3DS can handle the movesets themselves, but I don't think the quality of it will be on par with the Wii U version. They can potentially nerf the quality of the moveset on the Wii U version if the 3DS version doesn't live up to how the developers imagine it to be. They do, however, have an option to make the 3DS version be inferior, but that wouldn't be fair, would it? Of course, I feel that this will only happen if Sakurai wants character movesets to be the same on both versions. If he wanted to differentiate the two versions even more, then having different movesets on both versions wouldn't hold one version back, which might be good.

Oh, and nice conversing with you, too. I think this topic has been beaten to death already, but nonetheless, there are still some possible hindrances that could happen from one version to the other.

Not a chance, it's a definite as of now. Sakurai confirmed back at E3 that both versions wouldn't release on the same day, simply due to the fact that both won't be ready at the same time, as the features differ in the two games. They are not simply making a port, nor are they making a lower budget alternative (and by this, I mean that they are treating Smash 3DS as the AAA 3DS game it deserves to be. It's not like the 3DS versions of Sonic Generations and Sonic Lost World, where they were just quick side projects given to Dimps, a low budget developer. 3DS version's budget is lower than the Wii U version obviously, but it's still a AAA 3DS title). These two versions are basically two separate games to him, albeit closely affiliated ones. They are both projected for a 2014 release (which makes me speculate/hope that the Wii U version comes in October, and the 3DS version comes at the end of November or in December).

Anyway, the 3DS version will hold back the Wii U version. It's more work for Sakurai to oversee, and it possibly hinders the Wii U version's budget and the size of it's dev team.

I think Sakurai will use an 8GB cartridge if he feels the need to. Although Story Mode is gone, we are still getting cutscenes in some shape or form (Sakurai has been vague about it thus far).
I don't think he confirmed it, but I remember him saying it was a possibility. I do have this feeling that the 3DS version will be out next year, but it does need to come out this year since the sales are steadily declining now.
 

KRBAY

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The 3DS is about as powerful as the Wii, and it and the Wii U version are two different games.
 

HatsuneMiku

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A regular 3DS cartridge holds up to 4GB, then there is the 8 GB cartridge which is most likely going to be used for Smash. It's about the same as Brawl's size, and most of that game's data was mostly overwritten by CGI cutscenes, SSE and Masterpieces. (The main reasons why Brawl had to be run on a dual layered disc) Smash 4 won't have any of those, so they'll be able to cram in a roster larger than Brawl's.
 

Tornado_Man

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A regular 3DS cartridge holds up to 4GB, then there is the 8 GB cartridge which is most likely going to be used for Smash. It's about the same as Brawl's size, and most of that game's data was mostly overwritten by CGI cutscenes, SSE and Masterpieces. (The main reasons why Brawl had to be run on a dual layered disc) Smash 4 won't have any of those, so they'll be able to cram in a roster larger than Brawl's.
I think they'll fill up the cartridge with tons of collectables aside from the roster, No SSE, cutscenes and masterpieces makes sure that both versions will be more easily handled and both will get their fair share of awesomeness. :awesome:
 

Bartholin

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Ok i guess it is my turn. First of all the 3ds has a dual core CPU: 266MHz ARM11, while the gamecube has a single core CPU: 485MHz IBM Gekko PowerPC. I won't get all technical, but DUAL CORE IS BETTER. The cores are clocked at a lower frequency, but the two cores are still more effective. Your first point is pointless.
Secondly, Kid Icarus Uprising doesn't have frame drops, even in multyplayer. It's never 60 fps, but it always runs more than smooth. I've played more than 250hours of that game, so i'm pretty sure my opinion has some weight on the issue. You've probably only seen the game on screenshots, because the game looks Gorgeous. It doesn't have the highest polygon count, but it looks really good on the 3ds's screen itself.
More cores isn't always necessarily better. It also depends on the architecture of the CPU. In most games an 8 core AMD FX 8350 is beat by a 4 core Intel Core i5, because the i5 has stronger SINGLE THREADED performance. On the other hand, in things like video editing, the FX 8350 would beat the i5 because video editing uses more threads. On PC most games don't use more than 2 cores, and I doubt many 3DS games use any more than 1.
The gamecube has a stronger CPU for SINGLE THREADED tasks, while the 3DS has a better CPU for MULTI THREADED tasks. (although I'm not sure that it would actually outperform the Gekko as it has a really weak ARM CPU)


(also, GHz doesn't really matter these days. You should be focusing on architecture and (for multi threaded stuff) cores.)
 
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LightningVance

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I would normally agree that yes, it would. But then I remembered Pokemon X and Y are programmed with around 800 high quality models on top of all the immense overworld and battle details, and other than a few frame buffers here and there in bigger battles it runs perfectly smooth. I'm hoping they figured out the possible hindrances with the characters (Pokemon Trainer, Ice Climbers, Olimar has obviously been tested and is working fine)

As long as no characters are needing to be left out/changed to fit the 3DS's power
 

Droß

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I would normally agree that yes, it would. But then I remembered Pokemon X and Y are programmed with around 800 high quality models on top of all the immense overworld and battle details, and other than a few frame buffers here and there in bigger battles it runs perfectly smooth. I'm hoping they figured out the possible hindrances with the characters (Pokemon Trainer, Ice Climbers, Olimar has obviously been tested and is working fine)

As long as no characters are needing to be left out/changed to fit the 3DS's power
Actually, the graphics in X and Y have lower polygon counts than the Gamecube's Colosseum did; it's the manner in which they're rendered that makes them look so much smoother to the player.

Also, as a Computer Science major, it does not matter how many cores and threads your CPU has/can handle if the program is only designed to run on X of them. A single threaded application gains zero direct benefit from being run on multi-thread / multi-core systems. If the 3DS game is designed to take maximum advantage of the hardware, it will run fine and have good fidelity.
 

ChibiIceClimberz

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So I'm going to say that the 3DS version indirectly hindered the features of the Wii U version in a good way in terms of in-game mechanics. There are no more character transformations mid-battle since the 3DS might not have been able to store them in the RAM properly while the action is going on. It's good because one move will replace their transformation move, but you wouldn't be able to transform and play as two different characters in one match. Captain Olimar is also limited to have three Pikmin, but it makes him more balanced.

It did, however, potentially hinder Wii U sales in Japan, and I'm almost this close to being convinced that it's not going to sell there anymore. They'll be getting the 3DS version first and leave themselves satisfied, and they won't be convinced to double dip on the Wii U version. Sigh.
 

MAtgSy

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I don't know if 3DS was the factor in removing transformations. True it may not have had enough memory, but a cart can load data faster than a disc. Brawl had slower loading than Melee so maybe it was even worse on Wii U?

Or maybe they decided nobody ever actually bothered transforming & just stuck to 1 form so they split characters.
 
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Downdraft

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I voted yes, but I don't strongly believe that.
The 3DS has momentum and is a hot product right now; releasing the 3DS version several months earlier than the Wii U version will probably result in a considerable amount of parents and other consumers opting for the 3DS versions.
 

ChibiIceClimberz

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I don't know if 3DS was the factor in removing transformations. True it may not have had enough memory, but a cart can load data faster than a disc. Brawl had slower loading than Melee so maybe it was even worse on Wii U?

Or maybe they decided nobody ever actually bothered transforming & just stuck to 1 form so they split characters.
It might not have been the factor, but when when they coincidentally remove transformations and limit Olimar's Pikmin, it seems like they really did. Also, the Wii U can read disks faster than the PS3 and Xbox 360.
 

smashbro29

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It already did. They separated the transformation characters.
 
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BigHairyFart

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The 3DS is a pretty powerful machine. As I said previously, it's about on par with the Gamecube(though games like this and Kid Icarus: Uprising make me think it's even stronger), and the Gamecube could handle Sheik/Zelda just fine.
 
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smashbro29

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The 3DS is a pretty powerful machine. As I said previously, it's about on par with the Gamecube(though games like this and Kid Icarus: Uprising make me think it's even stronger), and the Gamecube could handle Sheik/Zelda just fine.
The gamecube was pushing gamecube era graphics.

The 3DS has more modern standards.
 

Smash G

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Sakurai himself spoke of this possibility. So I'll trust him over you.
 

FreeFallUp

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Eh... release date probably has no impact on how well the Wii U version will sell. Something tells me that no matter when the different versions were released, and in whatever order, the moment a 3DS version was announced, many simply wrote off the Wii U version. I am not one of those people.
 

BBG|Scott-Spain

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So am I the only one that's assuming the WiiU version will come with new content? (ie: more costumes, move options, etc.)
 

Goten21

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Eh... release date probably has no impact on how well the Wii U version will sell. Something tells me that no matter when the different versions were released, and in whatever order, the moment a 3DS version was announced, many simply wrote off the Wii U version. I am not one of those people.
That's honestly beyond rediculous. I mean, why would he dumb down the Wii U graphics, just because of the 3DS it's performance? It honestly makes no sense
It's a good thing you're not one of those people
 

FreeFallUp

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That's honestly beyond rediculous. I mean, why would he dumb down the Wii U graphics, just because of the 3DS it's performance? It honestly makes no sense
It's a good thing you're not one of those people
(I'm a little tired while posting this, so tolerate me for a minute if I misconstrue your post)

Not quite sure what you're saying. Are you interpreting my comment as referring to the Wii U version's visuals or are you simply replying to the topic AND my quote at the same time? I was only referring to sales of the Wii U version, not performance, though that IS something I should have thought about early. In which case, I do not believe that the 3DS version's development time will result in a dumbed down Wii U version so as to allocate resources.

Some people probably just don't want to buy a Wii U, so the announcement of a 3DS version gives them an excuse not to buy one in order to play Smash, even though both versions will be different from each other. In any event, I personally can't wait for both versions (I may actually preorder both).

Sorry if I misunderstood your comment.
 

Sahfarry

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I'm sure there'll be less content (costumes, trophies, songs, etc.) in the 3DS version, and that'll give them space to operate.

The character limitations (Pikmin, Zelda/Sheik) may be due to limitations, but they're good things, so I don't really mind.
 
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