20XX, the evolution of a character or the game?

[Yogi Backair]

This is my first post on Smashboards (a site I have found to contain excellent information and depth, hats off to the moderators and organizers) so I apologize if I breach any of the unspoken rules of a post. Here is my thinking about the competitive melee scene right now: 20XX is becoming an increasingly popular and discussed evolution of the game, and with things like PAL and it feels like people are simply folding to the power of fox. But is fox truly the ONLY character capable of reaching 20XX status, or is he only the first? Take Amsa for example; through his sleek and rapid technical skill and his intimate knowledge of his character, he has taken Yoshi farther than anyone would have thought possible. Could it be said that he has developed a 20XX level Yoshi? If he has, could it be that Fox simply has the most accessible level of 20XX play (an extremely difficult level to play; I'm trying to say that others (i.e. Marth, Peach, Falcon) possess the ability to be played at a similar level with more work put in) and the others in the series are simply waiting for their Amsa? Before anyone jumps down my throat though, I'd like to point out that for a long time people thought that shiek was the main of mains; we should never be too comfortable with what we believe.

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

First off, welcome to the boards!
Well, 20XX is technically meant for fox because toph coined the term for him. That is the origin of the 20XX mindset. If you think about it, other characters could have 20XX, like Falcon, who is already having it's own movement as we speak(20GX), albeit not as big as 20XX

 

[Spoice]

First off, welcome to the boards!
Well, 20XX is technically meant for fox because toph coined the term for him. That is the origin of the 20XX mindset. If you think about it, other characters could have 20XX, like Falcon, who is already having it's own movement as we speak(20GX), albeit not as big as 20XX

Hax coined the term.

Tbh I see 20XX as a good thing. Players are either scared of it being a real thing, or they are excited to the meta change. Tons of characters are seeing their own major development projects all because of the 20XX term. Falcon has 20GX, Sheik's meta is finally moving forward again, 20YY just started for falco (I can see some big things with this in the future) and even then, the other characters like Marth, Peach etc. are all getting great representations.

This whole 20XX thing has really just brought out the best in most characters and players, and is still doing so. I see 20XX as the point where the whole melee meta is perfect (or close enough to perfection) not just Fox.

 

[AirFair]

20XX is really pushing the limits of characters, so it's really exciting to see what kind of things you can do.

 

[Deleted member]

with things like PAL.

PAL is the European version of the game? I think I'm misunderstanding you here.

That aside I think every character has potential to be the best (cept Pichu) but Fox was the easiest to figure out because of his speed.

 

[20YY SS | Saiblade]

Welcome to the boards! I think 20XX won't come, or not to an extreme as it was "prophesied". As other characters also have their own version of this (20GX for Falcon, 20YY for Falco), I doubt it will always be Fox at the top.

 

[Yogi Backair]

Oh is PAL not what they play in europe? I'd heard among the groups I play with that it was used some places in Scandinavia and the UK for tournaments instead of melee

 

[Yogi Backair]

And more on the discussion of the thread, you guys seem to generally agree that 20xx is more like playing the game with minimal error and top level technical skill for everyone rather than just fox?

 

[Oldiz]

PAL is melee with some balance changes, fox sheik and marth nerfs and much more, and is indeed used in europe.

 

[The Prince L]

Oh is PAL not what they play in europe? I'd heard among the groups I play with that it was used some places in Scandinavia and the UK for tournaments instead of melee

Yes, PAL is the European version of Melee. There's some changes in it.

http://supersmashbros.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_regional_version_differences_(SSBM)

 

[Yogi Backair]

Yes, PAL is the European version of Melee. There's some changes in it.

http://supersmashbros.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_regional_version_differences_(SSBM)

Yeah thats what I'd been told, have you played it? I'm not sure yet whether I should be a purist or a nerfherder, though evert up smash that kills me at 40% makes me think.

 

[The Prince L]

Yeah thats what I'd been told, have you played it? I'm not sure yet whether I should be a purist or a nerfherder, though evert up smash that kills me at 40% makes me think.

That's the version we're playing in Europe, so yeah, I'm playing it. I have never played NTSC, except on dolphin.

 

[Yogi Backair]

That's the version we're playing in Europe, so yeah, I'm playing it. I have never played NTSC, except on dolphin.

How much of a difference does it make? Like is it a noticeable change?

 

[Spoice]

How much of a difference does it make? Like is it a noticeable change?

Mostly just these.
If you use fox, you gotta learn higher percentages for when his u smash will kill, you can't waveshine marth, and his firefox has less range (not too much) and the flames are smaller, he's also pretty light.

Marth can no longer spike with dair making the ken combo useless, it's not a meteor, which can be cancelled.

Sheik can no longer tech chase with d-throw so easily, requires more reaction time and reads.

The latter half of falco's dair can not spike and more characters can tech his d throw (a spacie shouldn't be using d throw anyway tbh)

If you already play PAL it's nothing too major, you should only be concerned with the differences if you plan to play in europe and america.

 

[zero sum]

as toph (prominent commentator) tells it, according to hax, 20xx was supposed to be this dystopian reality where people play at tas levels of perfection to the point where fox is the only viable character in the game and since everyone plays perfectly matches are determined by port priority and melee essentially becomes a glorified rps competition

it's just a joke. fox is pretty much undisputedly the best character in the game and will likely only grow in popularity but this is never going to be a reality, especially not in the game's lifespan. people have since adopted the term 20xx or 20[something-something] to refer to the optimization of a character's metagame (e.g., falcon – 20gx) or, alternatively, to refer to ‘dual-maining’, especially in an increasingly fox-centric metagame where certain characters are gradually fading out of relevance

 

[CAUP]

I think the most interesting question is what characters can compete with a 20XX fox. I think Marth can. And an evolved peach incorporating constant double jump landing, powersheilding, down airs, and all types of z drops. Maybe Yoshi?

 

[EPsilon933]

I think the most interesting question is what characters can compete with a 20XX fox. I think Marth can. And an evolved peach incorporating constant double jump landing, powersheilding, down airs, and all types of z drops. Maybe Yoshi?

Marth and Falco are probably the only 2 characters who can go even against Fox. Peach is too slow to keep up with Fox. He's too mobile for her to reliably approach against

 

[Yogi Backair]

Marth and Falco are probably the only 2 characters who can go even against Fox. Peach is too slow to keep up with Fox. He's too mobile for her to reliably approach against

I'm not sure about her, but with DJL and pivot approaches combined with wavedashing like right on the edges of platforms she can cover more ground than a conventional peach is able to. I hope she can cut it haha, ad honestly for 99% of players against 99% of opponents she would definitely be viable at least

 

[CAUP]

Peach is too slow, you are right. She must be an immovable tank that stops approaches, a wall. I think she can accomplish this at at least at TAS level through her noncommittal jump and z drops.

 

[Spoice]

Marth and Falco are probably the only 2 characters who can go even against Fox. Peach is too slow to keep up with Fox. He's too mobile for her to reliably approach against

I dunno about that, I think peach can stand her ground against foxes. I'm not even talking about mango-armada, but so long as the peach is good enough and can space and zone correctly, she can give the fox a good challenge. Check out PC Chris vs Kalamazhu to see some good fox-peach gameplay.