2 Questions

[Diddy King]

1. Would you say ZSS is a "predictable" character to play against. Like you can anticipate her moves?
2. If there a use for her fsmash?

I'm trying to pick her up so help would be appreciated. kthnx

 

[fkacyan]

1. If you are a predictable person.
2. Mindgames on rare occasions, not decaying your sideB.

 

[7thFonon]

1) No, Zero Suit in my opinion is not predictable compared to other characters. All of Zero's tilts have great start-up speed and recovery (except for up tilt). She can easily punish attacks off shielding (and I'm not talking about power shielding) as long as you have good recognition. I feel that her grab is what makes her unpredictable as well if you use it right. As slow as it is, some people don't expect you to use it at certain distances. This helps you set up for side B's as they might try to jump or spot dodge (thinking you will grab). Those are just a few examples... but in short, Zero has some nice mix-ups.

2) I have a few uses for the forward Smash

- My least used method of using F. Smash is for "pokers". People Like Wario who will intentionally miss you with a short hop attack, then move away from you while still in the air. Whenever the opponent is at high% (which would make this risk worth while) , I will start my F. Smash as soon as I see them jump at me and when they float backward to safety, I release. Again, this is my least used method as it's very risky in some cases. Like if you see a Wario forward Air, I'd be more likely to use this than on a Marth forward Air.

- I also use this attack for when the opponent is on the ground. Example : Trip, failed tech. I space myself so that I cannot get hit by a recovering-from-ground attack, yet I can still hit them with F. Smash if they use the attack, roll toward me, or just get up. Their only option is to roll back.... unless there's no more room on the stage for them to roll back >=) . This is a rather common use for me, though I do usually interchage this with down smash if there is no room for my opponent to roll back.

- When a player has used their 2nd jump to recover to the stage (but don't want to use up B) but must grab the ledge because they can't get far enough , I use the forward Smash a lot. *Note : Obviously, the character must be somewhat above the stage's ground level for this to work. * If you use the forward Smash in this situation, one of the two options will most likely happen. A) They get hit with the forward smash and must use up B, which equals an easy edge guard for you. B) They air dodge.... In this case... If the person is Falco, Wolf, Zelda, you basically got a free kill as they must up B upward in this situation. As for other characters, you can still try to edge guard their up B recovery. Watch your spacing though. DON'T be at the very edge of the stage charging a forward smash. There is a good chance that you will get f. Air'd by your opponent.

Hope that gave you an idea of how to use this attack.

 

[Diddy King]

Alright thanks, those both helped. Hopefully she can be my second char to counter this annoying olimar.

 

[Adapt]

I wouldn't say she counters olimar, it seems to be about an even match

 

[ph00tbag]

7th Fonon, in every instance you listed there, Dsmash would be much, much better. Unbelievably better, in fact, because it has less lag, better range and exactly the same start-up. Fsmash has no use beyond some intangible "mindgames," which everyone seems to bandy about in relation to this move. Really, it's not even worth it as a counter to decay; A fresh fsmash will certainly KO before a fully decayed Plasma Whip, but how often, realistically, do you think you'll connect with 9 Plasma Whips in a row? I don't even think I ever connect with 9 in a single match. A Plasma Whip at that point will only do a percent or two less than a fresh Fsmash.

Second, it's too slow to refresh the queue. Use a moves like dsmash and uair which you want to be decayed anyway, and which are faster, and more useful as moves. You could even use pummels on a grabbed opponent, which are your best bet.

Face it, Fsmash is useless. In every instance where you could use it, there is at least one move that is much, much better.

 

[DeliciousCake]

I still D-smash to charge F-smash for percentage.

 

[ph00tbag]

I still D-smash to charge F-smash for percentage.

I just dsmash x2 -> uair/fair/nair. Vla! Instant damage.

 

[oze6000]

I only use Fsmash two times. Most commonly when I use a Dsmash and want to either launch them (sideB will not work usually after you use a Dsmash, they don't get pushed into the sweet spot so you'd have to be spaced right) So yeah, Dsmash>Fsmash if i want to launch them over the edge, usually not for a kill, but edgeguarding for sure. =)

The other time is pretty useless, but it works fine for me sometimes. In teams if you are between two enemies. Usually i'm behind one facing him and use my fsmash aiming at him while his teammate is running up behind me to interupt. Don't forget Fsmash hits behind you as well.

 

[ph00tbag]

Don't forget Fsmash hits behind you as well.

For 6% and pathetic knockback. Many characters can attack you out of this attack before the Fsmash is even over.

 

[Tezmata]

1.) Just as predictable as any other character. Sometimes the spacing between her and the opponent gives away the moves she's about to perform, but it also makes it easy to fake out an opponent.

2.) As mentioned above, I like to use it when the character is already down. I also like using it out of a DSmash when the opponent already has a lot of damage because it won't decay my useful moves and can still KO sometimes. It's also good for edgeguarding when an opponent with poor vertical recovery is at stage level because it doesn't knock them back too far but knocks them back far enough to keep them from grabbing the edge long enough to time the second kick of F-air or just a B-air. It's a very situational move though, mostly to avoid decay in better moves.

 

[oze6000]

I've always had good experiences. I've pulled off a Fsmash>Roll Back>Dsmash several times.

But make no mistake. Fsmash sucks balls.

 

[7thFonon]

7th Fonon, in every instance you listed there, Dsmash would be much, much better. Unbelievably better, in fact, because it has less lag, better range and exactly the same start-up. Fsmash has no use beyond some intangible "mindgames," which everyone seems to bandy about in relation to this move. Really, it's not even worth it as a counter to decay; A fresh fsmash will certainly KO before a fully decayed Plasma Whip, but how often, realistically, do you think you'll connect with 9 Plasma Whips in a row? I don't even think I ever connect with 9 in a single match. A Plasma Whip at that point will only do a percent or two less than a fresh Fsmash.

Second, it's too slow to refresh the queue. Use a moves like dsmash and uair which you want to be decayed anyway, and which are faster, and more useful as moves. You could even use pummels on a grabbed opponent, which are your best bet.

Face it, Fsmash is useless. In every instance where you could use it, there is at least one move that is much, much better.

I said that in my post. That I use both the forward smash and down Smash. Down Smash is great against inexperienced players or players near an edge with no room to roll backward (which I believe I mentioned before) in all cases, the forward smash will have the highest success rate of hitting. Down smash will have the highest reward.

 

[ph00tbag]

I said that in my post. That I use both the forward smash and down Smash. Down Smash is great against inexperienced players or players near an edge with no room to roll backward (which I believe I mentioned before) in all cases, the forward smash will have the highest success rate of hitting. Down smash will have the highest reward.

Fsmash can be dodged and then countered, it can be canceled out, and it has mediocre range. If dsmash gets dodged, you can jab, dodge, shield, dtilt, what have you before most characters can recover. It has energy splash projectile priority, meaning it cannot be reflected, it does not clank, and no matter what you connect with, you experience no hitstun. It also has better range than all parts of fsmash except for the dinky 6% hitbox, which your opponent recovers from fast enough to punish you in the lag.

How does fsmash have a higher success rate again?

 

[Orichalcum]

i use fsmash when i fail at a tilt or after downsmash, thats about it. and i never really planned to use it on intention because there are way better options lol

 

[i.E.]

I asked about this earlier too...messed around with it some....

The only use I've found for fsmash is when your opponent is at a high percent, Dsmash>>>Fsmash works well for a KO. That's about it. In every other instance Forward B is better. In fact, the only reason I use Fsmash after Dsmash instead of Plasma whip is because plasma whip doesn't usually have any knockback after a Dsmash.

Btw, thanks for listing those combos earlier ph00tbag.

My friend threw his controller at his wall, HUGE dent in his wall now (<out of frustration).
much thanks.

 

[FBM]

I just dsmash x2 -> uair/fair/nair. Vla! Instant damage.

Or dsmash x2 -> dtilt -> chase with fair/uair/usmash

Or if they are close enough, dsmash x2 -> utilt -> chase with uair/up+B/usmash

*** I would only use those are lower-mid %'s though and you have to adjust your chase timing for air dodges or counterattacks of course***

As far as fsmash goes, I said this in another topic:

And as far as fsmash goes, the only time I can think of when I would EVER use it is if my opponent is at like 150+% and I just landed a dsmash (not in the middle of the stage) AND I'm worried that their % is too high to easily time a bair into the post-stun knockback AND I'm worried that they are sitting where the deadzone of the side-B is, so I use the fsmash for the guaranteed kill.

 

[Otter17]

G&W has an obnoxious habit of catching dsmash in his bucket, and occasionally a fsmash works instead.
I do think that there is usually a better option though.

Also, the backswing will hit through pit's dspecial. Not really useful, but i find it interesting.