2 little ideas...

[Wob-Wob]

First off, these just came on my mind, haven't been thinking realy far with it yet...

1. As most people know, Brawl will likely be played with the Gamecube controller. Allot of people still find it hard to short-hop, and even pro's make mistakes sometimes. So my idea is that the X-button would be a normal jump, and the Y-button a short hop (or vice versa).

2. When you are at the edge of the stage, and hanging, you get the option of 2 diffrent attack types, one normal one, and a better one, but taking more time. The better one, or just another one would use the B-button...

Plz discuss...

 

[Danstr]

1) Everyone will most likely use the GC controller, but I don't think Nintendo will change any control style for the GC controller.

2) Dont you already have 2 different attacks on the edge anyway?

 

[Wob-Wob]

1) X and Y both have the same effect, so 1 can be altered a bit, and the other one could still have the same effect, right?

2) You mean 99-% and 100+%?

 

[i8waffles612]

how do you short hop???

 

[Wob-Wob]

Pressing the Jump-button very lightly, but hard enough to jump. It's seen very easy with Falco, the normal jump goes high, while the short hop doesn't move Falco above his head (if you get what I mean...)

 

[Danstr]

1) Yeah your right, it could be done. But would Nintendo do it? I doubt it.

2)....huh?

 

[Wob-Wob]

1) Well.. We could make a petition
2)
You: "2) Dont you already have 2 different attacks on the edge anyway?"
-My reaction: "2) You mean 99-% and 100+%?"
What I mean is, the 2 diffrent types is when you got 100% or more, you're attack is altered, and a bit slower then when you got less then 100% ...
If that's not what you mean, then what do you mean?

But, Huray, I convinced you with 1)

 

[blueVlaD]

i like the fact that short hopping
requires some time to master

if they give it its own button,
it will be too easy "IMO"

 

[Danstr]

1) LOL, yeah I'd sign it. Making a short hop button would be the nuts.

2)Yeah thats what I meant, I just get confused easily. I mean making two attacks would be cool, but you have pretty good options as it is now. Attack, Roll, or jump. It would need to be a pretty BAMF attack.

 

[Mic_128]

Online petitions never work.

If you can't figure out how to tap jump to jump only a little, you won't know enough to play competativly, thusly you won't care if there's a SH buton or not, and both can remain normal for the people that use either one as their primary jump.

The second idea isn't too bad though.

 

[Danstr]

Noobs, (I supose like myself) Would run rampid with short hops, I would defently have to agree. The reason why a short hop is so good, is b/c it actually takes skill to do.

 

[Wob-Wob]

That's true, it differs the masters from the noobs
But it's a bit harsh for people who's fingers or X/Y-buttons don't worl 99+%

And the 2 attacks, maybe the B-attack would use a B-button-attack while climbing.
For Example:
(Dr.) Mario / Luigi: Shoots a fireball while climbing on the ledge
Bowser: Jumps and then used Bowser-bomb (with an increased start-up time)
Peach: swing so that you stands on her hands on the ledge, and using her "Ha-tcha"-attck (forward B)
Yoshi: Jumps and instantly used his Egg-roll attack.
DK: While climbing on, he uses his Down-B attack once
Capt. Falcon: Same as Yoshi, but then with Falcon Kick
Ganondorf: Look at his Move-set sharer
Falco: Look at his Move-set sharer
Fox: Climbs on, and uses his Forward B move (If the platform is to small it's your own fault for using this move) (Or could instantly use a Shine...)
Ness: Kills himself
Ice Climbers: If Popo is on, and he uses this move, he climbs up, and throws/makes an Up-B rope, and swings Nana on the platform (5-10 yards infront of him)
Kirby: Instatly uses Up-Ward leaning Forward...
Samus: While climbing, she lays a bomb, and rolls away
Zelda: Climbs up, and while doing so, she uses the normal B-move (while still climbing up)
Sheik: Throws a Needle, or the whole stock Needles (if you got it) while climbing
(Young) Link: Throws his Boomerang, but due the concentration needed to climb up, it won't get far...
Pi(ka)chu: Uses Quick Attack to the side when almost on the ledge stadily.
Jigglypuff: Uses her/his Pound Attack
Mewtwo: Climbs on the ledge, then falls off, and instantly holding the ledge, and then uses his normal A attack (whuahuahauah, just to the enemy)
Mr. Game And Watch: Uses his Hammer instead of his Bell
Marth/Roy: Used his Up-B with a shorter virtical Range.

All these moves will be nerfed with Start-up and Cooldown time...

 

[Wob-Wob]

Sorry for this Double-posting, but it's back to the topic (as if the other one wasn't )
What happens by my self, is while I am capable of playing serieus Tournaments (played ZEST 2, 2 days ago), I try to be very fast with things, and thus I can't take the time to be a little slower, by holding my muscles back a bit, just to press that one button (if you understand...)

 

[Mic_128]

But it's a bit harsh for people who's fingers or X/Y-buttons don't worl 99+%

They should either buy a new controller that does work, or they just have to get used to it, like in pretty much ANY game with jumping. Haven't seen any game where you can jump that there's more than 1 button to jump.

 

[Wob-Wob]

They should either buy a new controller that does work, or they just have to get used to it, like in pretty much ANY game with jumping. Haven't seen any game where you can jump that there's more than 1 button to jump.

Smash Bros Melee Maybe ? X AND Y
But I'm just 14, and don't wanna spend 30 euro's on it .
And yeah, I'm Lazy :embarrass

 

[Adi]

Yeah I think that giving everyone the option to short hop is a bad idea. We don't need to lessen the gap between noobs and pros.

 

[SliK]

Smash Bros Melee Maybe ? X AND Y
But I'm just 14, and don't wanna spend 30 euro's on it .
And yeah, I'm Lazy :embarrass

Actually there is three tap up on the thumb stick

 

[Wob-Wob]

That's not a button

 

[mr_joey132]

That shorthopping idea is truly gay. You have to practise to get better, not getting it for free >_> That's exactly what I'm afraid of with brawl, that advanced techniques become too easy and ubernoobs can do it easily. The other one is alright I guess..

 

[BDawgPHD]

The only thing I really have trouble with with shorthopping is that some characters are drastically heavier than others. I mean, I main Link, so it's difficult to short hop with a lot of the higher tiered characters. Then again, when I play with, say, Bowser, sometimes I don't even jump at all when trying to short hop :/

But yea, it'd accommodate too many noobs to make a short hop button.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

1. As most people know, Brawl will likely be played with the Gamecube controller. Allot of people still find it hard to short-hop, and even pro's make mistakes sometimes. So my idea is that the X-button would be a normal jump, and the Y-button a short hop (or vice versa).

Utterly and completly wrong, short hopping is not something pros, or even amateurs like myself flub.. wavedashing either. The things you see pros flub sometimes are ledgehops (rarely) and ledgehopped wavedashes, sometimes they hit L to soon and airdodge off the stage to their death. To this day (and I play a LOT of smash) I have not seen any of the people I play with flub a shorthop.

If someone finds shorthopping hard, than they shouldn't be playing this game at a competitive level, plain and simple. The game should not be made easier for you and I (and many players) are VERY accustomed to using one button both for fulljumps and short hops. The controls should not be simplified for people who are too lazy to learn a proper SH technique, I learned how to SH about... 2 weeks after I started playing, and with fox. In about a months time I had that, and wavedashing consistent and had only to develop my use of them.

2. When you are at the edge of the stage, and hanging, you get the option of 2 diffrent attack types, one normal one, and a better one, but taking more time. The better one, or just another one would use the B-button...

I support this idea, would make edgehogging people a bit easier if you had a garunteed ''slow getting up'' animation with extra invincibility frames instead of having to roll back at a precise moment against characters like Marth.

 

[Zarasai]

They should either buy a new controller that does work, or they just have to get used to it, like in pretty much ANY game with jumping. Haven't seen any game where you can jump that there's more than 1 button to jump.

why about SSB for the 64? there not only was up on the ctrl stick jump, but each c button was aloso jump....thats like 5 ways to jump

 

[Repyh]

1: Good idea. but it should be possible to turn it off. (For tournament related balancing)
2: I like it already! xD same thing with 1 though. An on and off switch =3

 

[Wob-Wob]

Cool, thanks :D
Cool, I've send it to Contact@nintendo.nl
But If some people from other countries will mail it to their country's nintendo-email-adress, then that'll be awesome :D (plz give credit, or just link em to here, then they see who posted it )

 

[NG7]

For Example:
(Dr.) Mario / Luigi: Shoots a fireball while climbing on the ledge

etc..

You could do all of these with a normal ledgehop right?

 

[Wob-Wob]

No
While f. e. Mario is climbing, he sets one foot on the platform (his right one), then while having both hands on the platform, he shoots with his right hand a fireball (so that hand is in the air) and then he hops on the platform, taking longer, but shooting

 

[Lebonaire]

The first idea is fine. I took the time to learn the shorthop, but I still think that having a button for normal jump and one for the shorthop is great. On/Offable would be good with it though. Maybe it could be unlocked if you do it more than 15 times (the melee way) in a match or something?

I don't like the second one though. It just doesn't appeal to me.

 

[Wob-Wob]

cool :D, but the on/off switch is indeed a very good idea :D

 

[Mr.GAW]

Since when do you have to "tap y lightly" to sh? I always drag my thumb accross it really quickly, but still jamming it down. It's more of a speed thing than strength thing.

 

[HideousBeing]

It's a dumb idea in general to make advanced techniques easier by simplifying how they are done. Having a short hop button would be like having a short hop mod controller on Melee (which are banned at tourneys). THE IDEA IS THAT ADVANCED TECHNIQUES ARE SUPPOSED TO BE ADVANCED!!! It would be lame if you could press a button to do a WD, to light shield, or to even shffl an attack. How dumb would that be? "Press and hold (some button) while doing an arial attack to ff as soon as possible and L cancel that attack on landing." I rest my case: its important for the game to make certain techniques difficult so that a n00b can't pick up the controller and be able to do everything a pro can easily.

 

[Mm-sh]

Since when do you have to "tap y lightly" to sh? I always drag my thumb accross it really quickly, but still jamming it down. It's more of a speed thing than strength thing.

***** length also helps because it gives you confidence

 

[mr_joey132]

mr.GAW is right, the X /Y are digital, so it's 1 or 0, pressed, or not pressed. If you press it long, it's a full hop, if you press it short / fast it's a short hop.

What's this on/off switch you're talking about? lol, I haven't followed teh whole thread. Or is it just teh second idea?

 

[Pikabunz]

I don't see why so many people are so negative about the short hop idea. If it makes things easier for some people, then why not? There are two jump buttons, might as well make one different than the other. This is a control issue and not a game play issue, why would you want to make the controls harder anyways? I want to master the game not the controls! The SSB series is supposed to have simple controls, that's what makes it so fun for anyone to just pick up and play. Imagine if the controls were more like a normal fighting game, you would probably have to do QCF+B to do Falco's blaster instead of just B. I know that the game would be less enjoyable if it had Street Fighter controls, not that Street Fighter is a bad game.

The c-stick made SSBM a whole lot easier and no one (important) complains about that. In SSB64, there was no c-stick, so you had to smash the control stick and press A at the same time to do a smash attack. Now with the c-stick, you can perform smash attacks with just a quick tap. The c-stick was also great for aerial attacks too, it made moving and attacking in the air so much easier. Many things that can be done with the c-stick weren't possible with just the control stick and A button. I know a lot of pro use the c-stick and are glad Nintendo made the controls this way.

Also, since when is short hopping an "advance technique" that need to be mastered? It's one of the most basic video game techniques ever. I remember "mastering" short hopping a way long time ago in a game called Super Mario Brothers.

Anyways, I don't really care if this short hopping idea makes it in or not. I just didn't like some of the reasons people were making for rejecting this idea. I'm all for making controls easier. If it makes it in the game, then great. If not, then oh well. I think people should be more open to some of these ideas and not be selfish about them.

 

[Wob-Wob]

It was just a simple idea that popped in my mind... don't kill me!! (yet)

 

[pikachun00b7]

Noobs, (I supose like myself) Would run rampid with short hops, I would defently have to agree. The reason why a short hop is so good, is b/c it actually takes skill to do.

SH takes 5 minutes to learn.

 

[Junaur]

For your first idea, along with the reasons others have posted, it would be much better for this idea and any other control ideas to simply be optional. As in a control customization option in the option menu, like many games have.

For your second idea, like said, all that can be performed already by ledgehopping. Also:

Ness: Kills himself

That's just plain mean.

P.S.: You didn't really send this to nintendo, did you? I've made some of the most advanced movesets you'll ever see a fan make, but do you see me sending those to nintendo? I would love to see my additions added to brawl, but I'm pretty sure sending them like that is a waste of time that'll only end in disappointment.

P.P.S.: Dear Marina Liteyears,
If through some strange scifi plot, you become sentient and able to read the internet, I want you to know that I'll always support you for brawl, above anyone else. T_T Always!
Love, Juno

 

[Wob-Wob]

@Junaur,
cool, Well... (I did send it xD, but I've send over 4-5 dozens of pieces to them (NO LIE)) )

I send it together with my Stages Idea ^^ ( Look around the General Brawl Forum )


Can You show me your Movesets?

 

[Danstr]

SH takes 5 minutes to learn.

I guess if your a B.A.M.F. like yourself it only takes 5 min. but to alot more other people it may take a little bit longer. Thats why its not a button, its a technique.

 

[Wob-Wob]

Cool, a real debate, started by me :D
btw, B.A.M.F = Born at A$$ from Mother's Father ?

 

[Chromeless]

I don't see why so many people are so negative about the short hop idea. If it makes things easier for some people, then why not? There are two jump buttons, might as well make one different than the other. This is a control issue and not a game play issue, why would you want to make the controls harder anyways? I want to master the game not the controls! The SSB series is supposed to have simple controls, that's what makes it so fun for anyone to just pick up and play. Imagine if the controls were more like a normal fighting game, you would probably have to do QCF+B to do Falco's blaster instead of just B. I know that the game would be less enjoyable if it had Street Fighter controls, not that Street Fighter is a bad game.

The c-stick made SSBM a whole lot easier and no one (important) complains about that. In SSB64, there was no c-stick, so you had to smash the control stick and press A at the same time to do a smash attack. Now with the c-stick, you can perform smash attacks with just a quick tap. The c-stick was also great for aerial attacks too, it made moving and attacking in the air so much easier. Many things that can be done with the c-stick weren't possible with just the control stick and A button. I know a lot of pro use the c-stick and are glad Nintendo made the controls this way.

Also, since when is short hopping an "advance technique" that need to be mastered? It's one of the most basic video game techniques ever. I remember "mastering" short hopping a way long time ago in a game called Super Mario Brothers.

Anyways, I don't really care if this short hopping idea makes it in or not. I just didn't like some of the reasons people were making for rejecting this idea. I'm all for making controls easier. If it makes it in the game, then great. If not, then oh well. I think people should be more open to some of these ideas and not be selfish about them.

I'm in complete agreement, I'm all for making things harder to master, but assigning SH to it's own button hardly makes anything easier to master, it just makes things easier to pick which in my eyes is a good thing in every way. Really, the whole issue is about convenience, having a SH button is simply convenient, it makes things easier to get into and means that there is one less control issue that you have to worry about. On the other hand, it has almost no effect on higher level play, is a noob honestly going to beat anyone simply because they can SH?

If anything I'd rather face a beginner who is equiped with the basics, is having fun and is willing to learn then face someone who is simply unable to use any effective techniques, as the latter option is simply not enjoyable and neither player ends up getting anything out of it. Just remember that becomming an adequate player and becoming an adept player are two seperate things, simply because the basics are easier doesn't make playing against a master any more so. The issue here is whether master should be able to a$$**** players who possess at least the possibility of fighting back, or whether they should do so against players who can't do anything and hence end up learning nothing.

I mean seriously, I just don't see why 'advanced techs' that simply involve drilling things repedetively are so compelling, there is nothing advanced about them apart from the unecessary ways you control them.