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will switch if limit side-b gets nerfed, but for now it's a clear choice and anyone not maining Cloud is out of his mind lol

Well Limit Break Side-B lost all 2 points of KBG apparently. VERY ALARMING (IDK if this is true, it might be).

Oh well <3 welcome aboard friendo! If you need any Cloud tips PM me.

lol tips on Cloud

appreciated but he's like, super easy if your fundamentals are good. Prepatch Luigi was harder because of cyclone mashing

Hey, I don't mean it to be insulting, but sharing advice/obscure things that no Cloud player does is part of what I do, y'know!

Just trying to be helpful.....heh. I miss when I could. Maybe I WILL go back to maining Doc considering they gutted Sheik right when I was getting into her haha.

Nah I'm just being a jerk don't worry you're fine

Cloud's got some interesting Limit-based shenanigans

This is a great day, honestly. So many top tier nerfs. So many more viable characters. I love it

A bit late but yeah, I'm feeling it too. Like.....even with Cloud being Cloud I think MOST (not all mind you) of his MUs are inherently less oppressive and stupid. Sheik being less silly opens up the gate for so much chars. They even adjusted Meta Knight (cause without Sheik, MK would've been....yea).

Probs the best patch this game has gotten.

Also Ganon having a real jab is amazing. The character is so so so so so so so so soooooooooooooo much better now that he can hit a button safelyish. The other amazing thing about his jab outside of its really low recovery for its strength is its range relative to speed. It's as fast as if not faster than Ftilt except it hits FARTHER! Bless this game.

Ganon's jab is pretty great

MK might actually be better than he was before lol

I think it's possible he is but I think he's less...IDK, what's the word for it? Silly?

He feels more complete and well constructed so if he's better I don't mind, honestly.

honestly I've been competing with MK in tournaments without the death combo and he's always been just fine

the death combos covered up his actual good kill power

and good players didn't often get hit by the death combos anyway, because you can always play at the corner to minimize your risk at death % if you know the character

P. much this. Just feels more complete and well constructed.

Also in regards to newest patch....how are people not talking about how Ganon has a button he can press that's relatively safe in comparison to his kit? HOW?! It's so noticeable now! HE CAN HIT A BUTTON!

Also 2 unit range increase on Flame Choke sounds crazy. Still low tier but I can't say he's even close to what he was pre-patch in terms of strength IMO. A good jab will do WONDERS

Yeah, Ganon's pretty terrifying with the buffs

but you know what Ganon really needs is DACUS

Like there's NO WAY he's bottom tier right now. I absolutely refuse to accept it.

Giving Ganon a real jab is giving his whole moveset at least 75% more of a presence and they literally just did that this patch. It's lit bro.

Hard to imagine who's still low tier though. Samus got a lot better too.

Probably Jiggs for sure.

Dude Jigglypuff is garbage. Even Zelda after this patch has something redeemable.

Jiggs is just flat out dookie. You know that 4BR tier list? The J Tier was a future prediction. Jigglypuff is the only character I'd put in a J tier.

Like, I know the idea of this game being well balanced was kind of a meme at some point but with the recent top tier adjustments.....

I think we've actually come to what is a fairly well balanced game.

PS I'm treating this patch like the last one cause I feel like it has the potential to be, just because of how big the changes are. If this is what happens every month or two I'll actually quit the game (not even for nerfing my char reasons).

Additionally how do people think Puff does not lose to Ganon? How do people think Ganon is Bottom 10 with his new jab?

I think there'll be one more after this.

puff v. ganon is pretty volatile, but I have literally never seen the matchup played out at tournament level, so I couldn't tell you what the ratio would be

Ganon may feasibly be bottom 20 instead of bottom 10 with the new jab, but I don't think the jab really changes a lot of his matchups

I would say Bottom 20 myself as well. I actually think it changes his matchups quite a bit but this is in tandem with the new Wizkick and his other improvements as well haha. I think he's around where he was in 1.1.0 honestly before they removed his ability to safely space with Nair in neutral.

He's pretty awesome right now honestly.