Quick Search:
Melee Desyncs (MD)
The Ice Climbers are known for two things Desyncs and Infinites the later being almost non-existent at this point. But we still have desyncs, aka the cool stuff, and PM being and amalgamation of both Melee and Brawl, we have many desyncs from both games to choose from. So rather than posting links to the Melee and Brawl forums I decided to compile all of the Desyncs that Do and Don't Work in PM
Anytime I refer to Popo in this guide, it will be referring to the main Climber that that you are in control of
Defining Desyncs:
“Usually in a battle, there is a 6 frame delay from one Icy to the next. Desynching is when the Icies break their typical 6 frame difference by doing a certain set move or set of moves. Desynching widens the gap in timing to more than 6 frames, and is usually a considerable separation between the Icies. Widening the gap makes it so the player can control both the Icies simultaneously, have both Icies do different moves from each other. Every move can be done by Nana or Popo alone except:
Exceptions from desynchs- If you have Popo do blizzard, Nana will also do blizzard at the soonest moment possible for her (assuming she's close enough) if she's not close enough, she will scramble to find you, and when she does get to you, she will blizzard in the opposite direction you are facing. Also: Nana will never over B or up B by herself” - Exarch
“Nana's Box- While the Icys are desynched, Popo can move anywhere by himself, and leave Nana in the dust; however Nana cannot do the same. Instead Nana is stuck inside an imaginary box around Popo. It extends in front, behind, above, and below Popo, but Nana will not turn the opposite direction of Popo(except following a Popo blizzard.) To see this box hold press L or R in to right before they click. Hold this until Popo's shield breaks. Then Popo is stationary and you have complete control of Nana. Full hop to see how high the box goes, have Nana drop below the platform to see how low it goes, walk out in front of Popo to see how far forward it extends, do a short WD backwards to see the back end of it. Nana has a tendency to slide back to Popo in this box if she moved forwards or backwards. Nana can do anything while she is in the box, but once it is broken (dash or WD forward, or WD back) Nana is uncontrollable until she is back beside Popo. Also note, Nana's box is non-existant when Popo is hanging from the edge.” - Exarch
Also it is important to note that Popo's range of influence over Nana is much larger than it was in Melee allow Nana to read your inputs from much farther away. This will be discussed in the PM section(this may have been the case in Brawl as well but switching back and forth between PM and Brawl takes much longer than PM and Melee).
(1.M) Desync from spot dodge or Roll
After doing a spot dodge or rolling, buffer any move you want during the endlag. Nana will perform it alone
(2.M) Desync from dash dance
Use 3 Dash dances input move
examples
- 3 mid-long Dashes -> <- -> and attack, only Popo dash attacks
- 3 tight-long Dash -> <- -> and input ice block or blizzard, Nana will perform
(3.M) Grab Desync
Grab someone. While grabbing, one climber is free while the other is holding the opponent
- this of course can lead into the ledge handoffs see @Wobbles thread here for more info:
http://smashboards.com/threads/ledge-chain-grabbing-the-handoff-faq.216589/
(4.M) Foxtrot Desync
You can also do 2 long foxtrots tap down and input (for specials you can buffer ice block, and Blizzard)
- you can also perform a special with Nana and jump with Popo
- Experiment with using the cstick
Not Really a Desync per se but useful
(5.M) Staggered aerial
They are performed by dashing in one direction, then dashing in the opposite direction and jumping. The result is that Nana lags behind you--more so than she normally would--creating a spatial separation between Popo and Nana. The degree of horizontal displacement can be controlled by varying the length of your dashes and the timing of your jump
This is from @Kyu Puff 's Advanced Movement Options Thread there are some super cool ideas and desyncs he has that you should check out: http://smashboards.com/threads/some-advanced-movement-options.410728/
(6.M) Pivot Desync
Because Nana cannot pivot, pivoting allows you to quickly desync and act with Popo.
Dash in any direction, quickly tap back and immediately release, then input a move. Popo will do the move, but Nana will dash back instead. If done with an Attack-button move. Does not work with USmash, Belay (USpecial) or Squall Hammer (FSpecial).
- Pivot - A button will have Popo do the desired move, and Nana will dash Attack, these two attacks do link together, and Nana hits last.
- Pivot - C-stick, Popo smash Nana dash attack
- Pivot - ice block, Popo will perform alone
(7.M) Stuck Nana desync
Right before landing with Popo, use an ice block, causing Popo to be popped back into the air while using an ice block, Nana, who does not use the ice block and lands on the ground instead, is free to use any move. This desync can also be done with Popo’s second jump, and has the same timing as perfect wavelanding
(8.M)Landing desync
This is done (almost) immediately after Popo lands. He gets stuck in the land animation and Nana can do any attack by herself (except up b and over b). Easiest to see/do with a roll: i.e. screwed up wavelanding.
(9.M) Shield Stun desync
"A lot of the time when ICs are synced and have the same shield size, an enemy's attack will hit both ICs' shields at the same time. Popo and Nana hence exit shield stun at the same time. Since Nana reads inputs 6 frames late, this means that if I input a command within 6 frames of shield stun ending, Popo will ignore it since he's still in shield stun, but Nana will receive it after exiting shield stun and hence act on it. There are a lot of things you can do out of this, but the most useful one to me seems to be telling Nana to jump and blizzard while Popo continues shielding. Ice block instead of blizzard seems better in some circumstances, as well, like when you're confident the enemy will stay near the ground and not throw out a move that will clank with the ice block, or when you don't have a guaranteed punishment OoS and the enemy is outside of blizzard range.
More explicitly, the main application I see of this is to punish or reverse the pressure caused by high damage moves that ICs have a difficult time retaliating against out of shield. For example, Falcon kneeing a shield over and over can be punished with this; it can also be used to retaliate after Ganon fairs your shield, which can be a pretty threatening situation, especially when you're cornered. You can even squeeze a blizzard between two Marth fairs, but the timing for that is pretty strict and much more difficult on your end than Marth's"
(10.M) Low Knockback Projectile Desync
When Ice Climbers are hit with a move, such as grabs and projectiles, that terminates upon collision, usually only one of the climbers are hit by it. If a projectile one Climber the other is free to act during the others hitstun. Though not usually desirable because it splits them up, but in the instance that you are hit with a low knockback projectile, such as Mario’s Fireball, it leaves the Climbers close to each other
- Running forward and short hopping into a fireball Popo gets hit allowing Nana to still act, Using a blizzard to close space and set up a desync wall
- More examples: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vc2y6oYveGA
(11.M) Quick Ledge Grab
- dash towards the ledge
- dash away, right before you reach the ledge
- immediately shield (ideally on the same frame you turn around) - Nana will slide off while shielding and grab the ledge pretty quickly
(12.M) L cancel Desynch
Occasionally when landing from doing and aerial, sometimes Nana fails to Lcancel it. Abuse the fact that Nana has more lag than Popo and desynch them.
(13.M) Respawn Platform Desynch from
Once you have died, and that will happen occasionally to us imperfect icy's, when you drop off the platform Nana is unresponsive until you hit the ground. Because of this you can use an ice block with Popo while you are in the air to separate the icy's. Once Nana lands (before Popo) have her use a move (ice block usually) by herself to desynch. Basically it works like the stuck Nana desynch, except there is a large margin for error. (havent gotten this to work, but even if i did I’m unsure of how useful this would be anyway)
Credits:
Most of this information is from the Melee Ice Climbers boards specifically Exarch’s Desync guide:http://smashboards.com/threads/guide-to-desynching-treat-your-opponents-even-more-coldly.53912/
(12.M) - Kyu Puff
(10.M) (11.M) - Fly Amanita
(1.B) Backdash Smash Desync
Dash back, and almost-immediately press A. Nana will FSmash, while Popo will Dash Attack. A can be held to charge the FSmash. If both climbers FSmash, you pressed A too early; if both climbers Dash Attack, you pressed A too late.
(2.B) Starting Desync
Ice Climbers are desynched at the very beginning of every game. During the countdown, hold a move's input, and when the game starts ("GO!") Nana will do the move, while Popo will do nothing.
(3.B) Platform Fall Desync
As you are about to land on a platform, tap down and release immediately. Popo drops through, while Nana lands on the platform. By varying the timing the reverse is also possible
(4.B)Ledge Desync
Tether with USpecial, and either tap forward or press A as she connects with the ledge (after Nana pulls him up but before her animation is over). Alternatively, grab the ledge normally and press Jump. Popo will get up, while Nana will stay on the ledge. Altering the timing for the second method slightly will cause Nana to get up instead of Popo.
(5.B) Turnaround Desync
By tapping the Control Stick back and releasing almost-immediately, Popo will turn around while Nana will dash. Has the same properties as the Pivot Desync (6.M)
(6.B) Squall Desync
- Do a Squall Hammer (FSpecial), and input a move at the end of its animation. Only Nana will do that move.
(7.B) Run and Roll Desync
Dash, then almost-immediately press Shield. Popo will Roll, Nana will do nothing.
(8.B) Reverse Initial Dash Desync
Input a Reverse Initial Dash, release the stick, and input a move near the end of the dash. Follow-up moves include DSpecial, NSpecial, Grab and Shield+Move. For Specials, one climber will do nothing, while the other will do the move. For Grab, one climber will Grab while the other will Dashgrab. For Shield+Move, one climber will shield while the other does the move. Differing the timing slightly determines which climber does what action.
So to do the RIDd in PM you have to dash backwards, holding the direction you are dashing in for 14 frames
- If you hold it for 15 frames you both will do the what ever you input
- 13 and it just wont work(special)
Then you 5 frames afterward input
And 4 frames after that input a B-reverse if you choose to do so
(9.B)Tipper Desync
If only one Climber connects with a non-projectile attack, the hitlag suffered by only one Climber will allow them to desync.
(10.B) Shield Desync
Use Squall Hammer or Belay out-of-Shield, both Climbers will do the move but they'll be desynched.
(12.B) Short Hop Fastfall Desync ?
Short Hop, Fastfall, and input a move as you land. Only one Climber will do the move. It's strict, but you can choose which Climber does the move by altering the timing.(I've gotten this to work if i jump and fastfall, can also make Nana wavedash and do a move with her. a double check on this would be nice)
(11.B) Trip Desync
When one Climber trips and the other doesn't, they become desynched.
Credits
@EverAlert Desyncing guide: http://smashboards.com/threads/guide-to-desynching-i-really-need-to-massively-revise-this.243922/
When you are on your shield and you flick the Cstick up Nana will do a Up Smash as you jump, you can also wavedash out of it to keep them desynced or you can try to go for a follow up if Nana gets the Up Smash to hit. If you roll and buffer the next roll to the opposite direction with the Cstick Nana will do a grab as you roll again.
(2.P) Nana stop midgrab (I’ve been calling this the Nannequin
)
On 3.6 the ability to do mid stage Brawl handoffs has been removed, but making Nana stop on the middle of a grab is still in the game, this happens when Nana is out of your range, she will stop completely in the grab, once you get close she will do a throw depending on where she is(Mid stage up throw, close to a ledge back or forward throw) There is a one-frame window that allows you to controls which way Nana Throws, this allows for the Cuckhold: https://www.reddit.com/r/SSBPM/comments/5rnco2/the_cuckhold_or_how_i_learned_to_stop_worrying/
(3.P) Pivot Grab Desync
a subset of the Melee’s Pivot desync (6.M). Pivot and then grab, varying the timing yields different results, from just a turn around grab from both climbers to Nana shooting out and doing a dash grab
(4.P) Turnaround Desync
You can desync out during the skidding animation when you turn out of a run.
Lots of different things you can do out of this with various button inputs such as turning inputting shield then any move to make Nana roll away and do that move. This is one is definitely worth experimenting, it may be one of our most versatile tools
(5.P) Hold A Desync
Holding A does weird things to the climbers
The range that Nana can pick up your inputs is much larger in this game than Melee, so when you are Hard Desynced and Nana is making her way back to you holding a button causes her to do that action as soon as she this range, when she desyncs from you again allow you to continue your shenanigans.
(7.P) Item Desyncs
Some begining notes: when synced nana will not attack usually, however she will f-smash. Z-dropping with Popo will pass the item to Nana when synced
It seems that immediately inputting something with the c-stick when rolling or spotdodging causes Nana to buffer a grab
(9.P) Dbl. Roll/Spotdodge Desync
You can buffer a roll with Nana out of a roll or spotdodge and have her buffer a move out of that roll.
You can combine this with (8.P) (left-right-left with c-stick etc)
(10.P) DACUS (notreally) Desyncs
What was originally thought to only be Popo's Jab deysnced into Nana grab turns out to much larger implications. By using a regular attack and then frame after pressing Z, and any other button at the same time allows Climbers immediately to desync. This is the Fastest way (I'm pretty sure) That we can desync, and opens a plethora of way to cover and covert. please see the video in the spoiler to see more options
A guide on Z-syncs by Cuckdaddy: https://www.reddit.com/r/SSBPM/comments/5ttblk/how_to_break_hands_and_frametrap_people_zsyncing/
(12.P) Desync from the edge
Nana will perform any input while either she or Popo are hanging onto the ledge
(13.P) AC-DC
(14.P) Platform Fall Dsync
Credits
@Daniv 's IC Guide: http://smashboards.com/threads/ics-guide-one-controller-two-characters.397008/
@nimigoha (5.Pb)
@Laughman99 (11.P)(Jab-Grab Desync)
@tapsody(11.P)(Z-sync)
(*1) hippopanotto
Melee Desyncs (MD)
Basic (BMD)
Adv. (AMD)
Brawl Dsyncs (BD)Adv. (AMD)
Basic (BBD)
Adv. (ABD)
PM Desyncs (PD)Adv. (ABD)
The Ice Climbers are known for two things Desyncs and Infinites the later being almost non-existent at this point. But we still have desyncs, aka the cool stuff, and PM being and amalgamation of both Melee and Brawl, we have many desyncs from both games to choose from. So rather than posting links to the Melee and Brawl forums I decided to compile all of the Desyncs that Do and Don't Work in PM
Anytime I refer to Popo in this guide, it will be referring to the main Climber that that you are in control of
Defining Desyncs:
“Usually in a battle, there is a 6 frame delay from one Icy to the next. Desynching is when the Icies break their typical 6 frame difference by doing a certain set move or set of moves. Desynching widens the gap in timing to more than 6 frames, and is usually a considerable separation between the Icies. Widening the gap makes it so the player can control both the Icies simultaneously, have both Icies do different moves from each other. Every move can be done by Nana or Popo alone except:
Exceptions from desynchs- If you have Popo do blizzard, Nana will also do blizzard at the soonest moment possible for her (assuming she's close enough) if she's not close enough, she will scramble to find you, and when she does get to you, she will blizzard in the opposite direction you are facing. Also: Nana will never over B or up B by herself” - Exarch
“Nana's Box- While the Icys are desynched, Popo can move anywhere by himself, and leave Nana in the dust; however Nana cannot do the same. Instead Nana is stuck inside an imaginary box around Popo. It extends in front, behind, above, and below Popo, but Nana will not turn the opposite direction of Popo(except following a Popo blizzard.) To see this box hold press L or R in to right before they click. Hold this until Popo's shield breaks. Then Popo is stationary and you have complete control of Nana. Full hop to see how high the box goes, have Nana drop below the platform to see how low it goes, walk out in front of Popo to see how far forward it extends, do a short WD backwards to see the back end of it. Nana has a tendency to slide back to Popo in this box if she moved forwards or backwards. Nana can do anything while she is in the box, but once it is broken (dash or WD forward, or WD back) Nana is uncontrollable until she is back beside Popo. Also note, Nana's box is non-existant when Popo is hanging from the edge.” - Exarch
Also it is important to note that Popo's range of influence over Nana is much larger than it was in Melee allow Nana to read your inputs from much farther away. This will be discussed in the PM section(this may have been the case in Brawl as well but switching back and forth between PM and Brawl takes much longer than PM and Melee).
Melee Desyncs: (MD)
Basic (BMD)(1.M) Desync from spot dodge or Roll
(2.M) Desync from dash dance
examples
- 3 mid-long Dashes -> <- -> and attack, only Popo dash attacks
- 3 tight-long Dash -> <- -> and input ice block or blizzard, Nana will perform
(3.M) Grab Desync
Grab someone. While grabbing, one climber is free while the other is holding the opponent
- this of course can lead into the ledge handoffs see @Wobbles thread here for more info:
http://smashboards.com/threads/ledge-chain-grabbing-the-handoff-faq.216589/
(4.M) Foxtrot Desync
- you can also perform a special with Nana and jump with Popo
- Experiment with using the cstick
Not Really a Desync per se but useful
(5.M) Staggered aerial
This is from @Kyu Puff 's Advanced Movement Options Thread there are some super cool ideas and desyncs he has that you should check out: http://smashboards.com/threads/some-advanced-movement-options.410728/
Advanced (AMD)
(6.M) Pivot Desync
Dash in any direction, quickly tap back and immediately release, then input a move. Popo will do the move, but Nana will dash back instead. If done with an Attack-button move. Does not work with USmash, Belay (USpecial) or Squall Hammer (FSpecial).
- Pivot - A button will have Popo do the desired move, and Nana will dash Attack, these two attacks do link together, and Nana hits last.
- Pivot - C-stick, Popo smash Nana dash attack
- Pivot - ice block, Popo will perform alone
(7.M) Stuck Nana desync
(8.M)Landing desync
(9.M) Shield Stun desync
"A lot of the time when ICs are synced and have the same shield size, an enemy's attack will hit both ICs' shields at the same time. Popo and Nana hence exit shield stun at the same time. Since Nana reads inputs 6 frames late, this means that if I input a command within 6 frames of shield stun ending, Popo will ignore it since he's still in shield stun, but Nana will receive it after exiting shield stun and hence act on it. There are a lot of things you can do out of this, but the most useful one to me seems to be telling Nana to jump and blizzard while Popo continues shielding. Ice block instead of blizzard seems better in some circumstances, as well, like when you're confident the enemy will stay near the ground and not throw out a move that will clank with the ice block, or when you don't have a guaranteed punishment OoS and the enemy is outside of blizzard range.
More explicitly, the main application I see of this is to punish or reverse the pressure caused by high damage moves that ICs have a difficult time retaliating against out of shield. For example, Falcon kneeing a shield over and over can be punished with this; it can also be used to retaliate after Ganon fairs your shield, which can be a pretty threatening situation, especially when you're cornered. You can even squeeze a blizzard between two Marth fairs, but the timing for that is pretty strict and much more difficult on your end than Marth's"
(10.M) Low Knockback Projectile Desync
- Running forward and short hopping into a fireball Popo gets hit allowing Nana to still act, Using a blizzard to close space and set up a desync wall
- More examples: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vc2y6oYveGA
(11.M) Quick Ledge Grab
- dash away, right before you reach the ledge
- immediately shield (ideally on the same frame you turn around) - Nana will slide off while shielding and grab the ledge pretty quickly
(12.M) L cancel Desynch
Occasionally when landing from doing and aerial, sometimes Nana fails to Lcancel it. Abuse the fact that Nana has more lag than Popo and desynch them.
(13.M) Respawn Platform Desynch from
Once you have died, and that will happen occasionally to us imperfect icy's, when you drop off the platform Nana is unresponsive until you hit the ground. Because of this you can use an ice block with Popo while you are in the air to separate the icy's. Once Nana lands (before Popo) have her use a move (ice block usually) by herself to desynch. Basically it works like the stuck Nana desynch, except there is a large margin for error. (havent gotten this to work, but even if i did I’m unsure of how useful this would be anyway)
Credits:
Most of this information is from the Melee Ice Climbers boards specifically Exarch’s Desync guide:http://smashboards.com/threads/guide-to-desynching-treat-your-opponents-even-more-coldly.53912/
(12.M) - Kyu Puff
(10.M) (11.M) - Fly Amanita
Brawl Desyncs: (BD)
Basic (BBD)
(1.B) Backdash Smash Desync
(2.B) Starting Desync
(3.B) Platform Fall Desync
(4.B)Ledge Desync
Advanced (ABD)
(5.B) Turnaround Desync
(6.B) Squall Desync
- Do a Squall Hammer (FSpecial), and input a move at the end of its animation. Only Nana will do that move.
(7.B) Run and Roll Desync
(8.B) Reverse Initial Dash Desync
So to do the RIDd in PM you have to dash backwards, holding the direction you are dashing in for 14 frames
- If you hold it for 15 frames you both will do the what ever you input
- 13 and it just wont work(special)
Then you 5 frames afterward input
And 4 frames after that input a B-reverse if you choose to do so
(9.B)Tipper Desync
If only one Climber connects with a non-projectile attack, the hitlag suffered by only one Climber will allow them to desync.
(10.B) Shield Desync
Use Squall Hammer or Belay out-of-Shield, both Climbers will do the move but they'll be desynched.
(12.B) Short Hop Fastfall Desync ?
Short Hop, Fastfall, and input a move as you land. Only one Climber will do the move. It's strict, but you can choose which Climber does the move by altering the timing.(I've gotten this to work if i jump and fastfall, can also make Nana wavedash and do a move with her. a double check on this would be nice)
(11.B) Trip Desync
When one Climber trips and the other doesn't, they become desynched.
Credits
@EverAlert Desyncing guide: http://smashboards.com/threads/guide-to-desynching-i-really-need-to-massively-revise-this.243922/
Project M (PD)
(1.P) C-Up desync OoS
(2.P) Nana stop midgrab (I’ve been calling this the Nannequin
)(3.P) Pivot Grab Desync
- Dash > Pivot Charge Fsmash (popo) + Dash Grab (nana) (*1)
(4.P) Turnaround Desync
Lots of different things you can do out of this with various button inputs such as turning inputting shield then any move to make Nana roll away and do that move. This is one is definitely worth experimenting, it may be one of our most versatile tools
(5.P) Hold A Desync
5.Pa
5.Pb
- Split Desync (5.Pa)
- Holding the A button while running and pressing the c-stick in the opposite direction causes Popo to enter his turn around animation and Nana to pivot run in the opposite direction then enter her turn around animation facing Popo. Not really sure of its usage yet as I'm still exploring it, but you can use it to force a Hard Desync
- Charged Smash Desync (5.Pb)
- Charge a smash attack with Stick + A. While holding this, press Z or another button set to Attack (I use the L trigger). This will cause Nana to release her Smash attack. Then release A and your other attack button to make Popo release his smash. And now the Climbers are desynced!
- Nana will perform the action in whichever direction you are facing for example
- inputting grab while facing toward the direction she is coming from will cause here to turnaround and do a dash grab, while facing the opposite direction will cause Nana to just do a dash grab
(7.P) Item Desyncs
- You can desync the Nana with during the an item's throw animation,
- example:Jump forward-item throw (Popo)-Blizzard (Nana) or Up-item throw f-smash.
- Also you can Nanapault out of a forward item throw.(g)
- Glide tossing
- Grounded
- Causes the item-less Ice Climber to roll allow you use the roll desync
- While running glide tossing up causes the item-less ice climber to jump
- Causes the item-less Ice Climber to roll allow you use the roll desync
- Air
- Causes the item-less Ice Climber to air-dodge allowing you to desync during the end lag
- AGTing with Popo back while tossing forward passes the item to Nana, easier while drifting back (g)
- AGTing with Nana back while tossing forward has Nana throw the Item out in front ready to input a move(g)
- AGTing with Popo back while tossing forward passes the item to Nana, easier while drifting back (g)
- Causes the item-less Ice Climber to air-dodge allowing you to desync during the end lag
- Grounded
- While Nana is holding an Item, Nana can do anything, even grab, out of the roll or spot dodge desync, she will not throw the item. Good way to maintain your walls while keeping items away from you're opponent.
(9.P) Dbl. Roll/Spotdodge Desync
You can combine this with (8.P) (left-right-left with c-stick etc)
(10.P) DACUS (notreally) Desyncs
- While running releasing the ctrl stick, hitting up on the c stick and then Z, causes Popo to up Smash and Nana to grab. If you connect the up-smash nana grab will also connect
- While running flick the ctrl stick down, hit the c stick up and then press A, Popo will up smash Nana will dash attack
- While running press shield then up on the c-stick, Nana will up smash Popo will jump (1.P)
- By varying the timing you can make Popo up-smash and Nana jump (I'm still working out the specifics)
A guide on Z-syncs by Cuckdaddy: https://www.reddit.com/r/SSBPM/comments/5ttblk/how_to_break_hands_and_frametrap_people_zsyncing/
(12.P) Desync from the edge
(13.P) AC-DC
(14.P) Platform Fall Dsync
Credits
@Daniv 's IC Guide: http://smashboards.com/threads/ics-guide-one-controller-two-characters.397008/
@nimigoha (5.Pb)
@Laughman99 (11.P)(Jab-Grab Desync)
@tapsody(11.P)(Z-sync)
(*1) hippopanotto
