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Zero Suit Video Thread and Analysis

Kesno

Smash Cadet
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May 27, 2014
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Didn't notice which thread I was in when I posted my nair question. Don't mind me.
 
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NickRiddle

#negativeNick
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NickRiddle vs. 8BitMan WSF
NickRiddle vs. ED!!! WF
NickRiddle vs. 8BitMan GF

Meow
 
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pichuthedk

Smash Lord
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I'm pretty bored and salty with my current station in life , something to take my mind off the johns is always good xD.

I'll watch that 21 min when I get home in half an hour or so.
 

Dr. Tuen

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Critique yes or no? :sheik:
I love them sheik matches. I have to learn from this.

Also. ROB gets lead. What do we do? BOOST KICK. The end. How... demoralizing for the other player...
 

NickRiddle

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Critique yes or no? :sheik:
I will never say no to critique.


I love them sheik matches. I have to learn from this.

Also. ROB gets lead. What do we do? BOOST KICK. The end. How... demoralizing for the other player...
Uair > Boost-kick's burst is so stupid on round characters. I'd probably play more conservatively if we didn't have that semi-guaranteed on the robot.
 

David Viran

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I see this happen a lot a ZSS gets there air dodge baited off of something like diddy's throws and they die. Why do they not use down b instead?
 

hiROI

Smash Lord
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I have some videos for critique!

Winners SemiFinals
hiroi (ZSS) vs Ryo (Ike/Palutena)

Loser Quarters
hiroi (ZSS) vs Jeck (Yoshi)

I have trouble with Game two on both games. And I am so dumb with Yoshi that I had a YOLO moment.
 
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BatShark

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 30, 2014
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146
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Here's a pair of quick friendlies of mine, I would very much appreciate any kind of analysis. I know my ZSS is rudimentary as ****, but here goes.

One loss (wherein I get thoroughly worked, I honestly feel hopeless against very good Sheiks) and one win:



General problems I see in my own game include: punishing too hard, too reliant on Flip Kick's escape, sometimes overly predictable recovery, and not very good about punishing getups and getting the most out of ledge guards. I also almost never use Zair, which I might want to implement a bit better, and probably not enough intelligent use of Dsmash.

Thoughts/observations/analysis appreciated.
 
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David Viran

Smash Lord
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Oct 13, 2014
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Here's a pair of quick friendlies of mine, I would very much appreciate any kind of analysis. I know my ZSS is rudimentary as ****, but here goes.

One loss (wherein I get thoroughly worked, I honestly feel hopeless against very good Sheiks) and one win:



General problems I see in my own game include: punishing too hard, too reliant on Flip Kick's escape, sometimes overly predictable recovery, and not very good about punishing getups and getting the most out of ledge guards. I also almost never use Zair, which I might want to implement a bit better, and probably not enough intelligent use of Dsmash.

Thoughts/observations/analysis appreciated.
Against the sheik player you said you were too reliant on flip jump to escape but that sheik player was baiting your air dodges off stage so they could get bf. Use down b and sheik can not hit you with bf at all off stage because even if the sheik intercepts it they will have to uair and that's not a threat tell 130%. Also use up b oos more against sheik that player mispaced a couple times and you can punish any mispace with up b oos.

That first stock In the greninja match was pretty funny. I've never seen that before especially kill with zss. Like you said don't always try to down b over someone when recovering. There's nothing wrong with grabbing the ledge with tether or something. Those wave bounces though, you were tripping up that greninja.
 
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extremechiton

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@ BatShark BatShark that footstool to instant dair ko was pretty funny, not sure if you were just going for a dair, but a footstool is alwaus nice. :p
 

Dr. Tuen

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Here's a pair of quick friendlies of mine, I would very much appreciate any kind of analysis. I know my ZSS is rudimentary as ****, but here goes.

One loss (wherein I get thoroughly worked, I honestly feel hopeless against very good Sheiks) and one win:



General problems I see in my own game include: punishing too hard, too reliant on Flip Kick's escape, sometimes overly predictable recovery, and not very good about punishing getups and getting the most out of ledge guards. I also almost never use Zair, which I might want to implement a bit better, and probably not enough intelligent use of Dsmash.

Thoughts/observations/analysis appreciated.
Though I'm not great at the game yet, I can make some comments... cause I do these things too, ha ha.

Watch out for flip jumping onto the stage. We're talking... starting the flip jump at or just below edge height kind of thing. It leaves the middle of the arc (the exposed, not invincible part) right over their head. Greninja didn't take advantage of that.... but he coulda upsmashed all day.

I like the try at the dsmash boost kick in the middle of the first Greninja stock. I'm trying to learn those too. My guess is that at the percent he was at, you didn't need to jump for it. But I'm not completely sure. The timing is just something to get used to.

I'll also echo the boost kick out of shield option vs Sheik. It's one of our best options there if she mis-spaces. Really, it's one of our only options given how little landing lag there is on fair.
 

BatShark

Smash Apprentice
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Though I'm not great at the game yet, I can make some comments... cause I do these things too, ha ha.

Watch out for flip jumping onto the stage. We're talking... starting the flip jump at or just below edge height kind of thing. It leaves the middle of the arc (the exposed, not invincible part) right over their head. Greninja didn't take advantage of that.... but he coulda upsmashed all day.

I like the try at the dsmash boost kick in the middle of the first Greninja stock. I'm trying to learn those too. My guess is that at the percent he was at, you didn't need to jump for it. But I'm not completely sure. The timing is just something to get used to.

I'll also echo the boost kick out of shield option vs Sheik. It's one of our best options there if she mis-spaces. Really, it's one of our only options given how little landing lag there is on fair.
Thanks for the input. As far as the boost kick attempt on Greninja (you mean after the down B?) that was me overestimating his escape greatly and attempting to catch mid-air, this is someone I play often and they usually mash out ludicrously fast. At that % on almost anyone else I would go for Dsmash Up B instead.

On the recovery vs. him, he often does go for the Usmash punish and I at times have been punishing through timing mixups, so he probably doesn't go for it anymore as much as others might in that situation. Duly noted though, I definitely get into trouble with flip kick.
 

smashkng

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I have some videos for critique!

Winners SemiFinals
hiroi (ZSS) vs Ryo (Ike/Palutena)

Loser Quarters
hiroi (ZSS) vs Jeck (Yoshi)

I have trouble with Game two on both games. And I am so dumb with Yoshi that I had a YOLO moment.
In the Ryo set, @ 1:30 you could have ran and JC Up b'd. Quick reactions and hit confirming is key with ZSS. Your grab game is also very improvable. Unless they're at 60-80%, even near the edge I prefer Dthrow. Bthrow can be ok sometimes but at least 90% of the time Dthrow should be the throw of your choice. It grants almost guaranteed follow-ups like Uair and Fair and puts them into juggling position, especially vs someone like Ike who isn't that good above opponents. And having the opponent in the air is about just as good as having them offstage most of the time with ZSS because her juggle game is spectacular but her edge guarding, while good isn't the best. You can hit Ike out of Aether with side b, but otherwise, respect it when Ike uses it at the ledge unless you can Dair suicide on him or you are somehow able to hit him out of the 18-frames start-up (and super armor) it has. Aether also has a far bigger hitbox than it looks like. You can your Up bs better too so that Ryo'd not be able to escape from them. Most of the time by angling up b more straight up. Also it looked like you got a little bit flustered when playing against Ryo. That's no good sign. Keeping yourself cold and focused is very important in competitive play in general. All of the higher level players are able to not lose concentration just because something crazy happened in the match. Dealing with nerves comes with experience (not having it at all can be bad as you want to push yourself as hard as possible), but try making attempts of focusing as hard as possible during tourney matches. And ZSS is the kind of character who can make a huge comeback from almost any good read, so don't give up!

In the Yoshi set, I saw that your OoS game is very improvable. Like at 2:39, you could have Up b OoS'd either the jab, or the Yoshi Dsmash for a pretty powerful punish. Same @ 2:50. Utilt could have been ok too and covers both options in case you don't know if something is gonna cross you up or not. I strongly recommend NOT using Dsmash as an OoS option. So start using Up b OoS. Another thing that will greatly improve your OoS game is learning to powershield (which happens during the first 4 frames of holding shield). It allows you to skip the shield release frames when you do any OoS attack (making your Utilt a frame 3 OoS option instead of 7+3=10 frames). It also dramatically reduces shield pushback, making it much more likely for you to be close enough to the opponent to punish them, and shield damage you take becomes almost 0. I prefer Dthrow Fair at low %s.. Uair chains aren't really true combos until it starts putting the opponent at a tumble state (usually starting at around 30%, it's weight dependant). Though Uair can still be good even at low %s sometimes, it's just that it doesn't really true combo into anything except from landing Uair (in which case it can combo into Uair, Utilt or Usmash depending on spacing). Dthrow Up b is pretty gimmicky. If they DI right it's not gonna be reliable. At around 40% it's better to go for Uair chains (possibly Uair chaining into up b ) or Fair.

And btw, ledge drop and double jump Zair is a great option when the opponent is a bit further away from you trying to punish your ledge climb because of its massive horizontal reach. It can even combo into dash attack from just about any range you hit it from. Don't worry, the timing is easy and doing it early enough there won't be any risk of your Zair becoming a tether recovery. And doing it this way, it'll hit even small chars with ease. If you get hit out of up b before landing, you'll have RCO lag (like 40 frames landing lag) the next time you land. It will carry with you too if you land with a special move except up b. What I do is land with an Uair, Bair or Nair (Uair having only 9 frames landing lag, but all of these aerials have really low landing lag and aerials ,and air dodge landing lag override RCO lag). Or just grab the ledge to remove this thing. Dash attack is really good at covering ledge climb options. It covers normal ledge climb, ledge jump, ledge attack and even ledge hop into the stage with its massive amount of active frames. They can only stay on the ledge until the move is over or ledge roll, both which are very punishable options and which can be baited. So start doing it!
 
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extremechiton

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I had trouble vs Luigi at a recent weekly, any help is appreciated

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBvFuz7DTBE
You play realy well, nairing those fire balls was great, and awesome dsmash read on the first game
some few minor problems i see is your a bit too reliant on up b as a ko option, you did have some great OoS up b punishes that paid off, but if you get shielded, thats a hefty punish for luigi. Since luigi os a slidey character, fsmash will probably have major shield pushback.

I also saw that Luigi shield whenever you to met after charging at each other. I might suggest instead of sitting in shield waiting for something to happen, or rolling, run past and pivot grab.

Like i said, these are minor discrepancies, but this is just me.
 

extremechiton

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCo-tBxS6QU

vs my friends rosa got a 3 stock which rarely happens since we play together often but there were somethings I did "right" that i wanted to get feedback on.
Plasma whip and zair is what you want to do to keep rosaluma zoned out since it will go past luma and still hit rosalina. you did a good job of that,

You shouldnt be doing too much paralyzer unless you are trying to bait a gravitational pull and punish, otherwise it will just hit luma unless you short hop and shoot over luma to snipe rosalinas head

Very good techs, i like the drop down zair to get back on stage.
Nice air dodge bait to boost kick kill
Back throw to flip kick spike, very well done
I also like the double nair, but i think if you did the back kick of the flip jump, you may have hit rosalina, or just not have done the kick at all and angled your flip jump to stomp and potentially burry her.

And very good footstooling rosalinas nair to recover
 

extremechiton

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finally was able to upload some more of my for glory matches. i was playing this link who was just godlike, and this was the only match that i beat him.

Edit:
Battled a decent falcon online. Im particularly fond of the last roll read that i heavily punished.
 
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pichuthedk

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Plasma whip and zair is what you want to do to keep rosaluma zoned out since it will go past luma and still hit rosalina. you did a good job of that,

You shouldnt be doing too much paralyzer unless you are trying to bait a gravitational pull and punish, otherwise it will just hit luma unless you short hop and shoot over luma to snipe rosalinas head

Very good techs, i like the drop down zair to get back on stage.
Nice air dodge bait to boost kick kill
Back throw to flip kick spike, very well done
I also like the double nair, but i think if you did the back kick of the flip jump, you may have hit rosalina, or just not have done the kick at all and angled your flip jump to stomp and potentially burry her.

And very good footstooling rosalinas nair to recover
well i agree with the flip jump ,however the frequent laser was not ever for rosalina I treat that fight like a boss encounter, If luma is up kill him if not dps rosalina. thats also why when ever i hit rosalina or threw her I would shield because my first priority is always him. I can't be bother with her while hes up his random factor is sure to cause a stock or 2....

thanks a lot though I was just extremely aware of some of what he was trying to do and he didn't really play terribly i was just playing really well and since we rarely 3 stock each other decided wth.

I just really need to learn to consistently do match ups well
 
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extremechiton

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got a few more of my for glory replays uploaded




 
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David Viran

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Use jab and utilt more he would be close to you and grab you every time because you tried doing slower moves. Take advantage of having the fastest move in the game and tied for the fastest utilt that beats almost any ground move in the game. Nice Bairs tho.
 
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A few things that immediately came to mind: you need to be insanely mindful of what sheik is doing offstage. Bouncing Fish nets a lot of kills, and if you can get away from that, you're in good shape. Also, strong stun shot can combo straight into upB - you could have ended that stock. Also: not seeing very much shff nair. That move is crazy good.
 

DeLux

Player that used to be Lux
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JTsm

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A few things that immediately came to mind: you need to be insanely mindful of what sheik is doing offstage. Bouncing Fish nets a lot of kills, and if you can get away from that, you're in good shape. Also, strong stun shot can combo straight into upB - you could have ended that stock. Also: not seeing very much shff nair. That move is crazy good.
Yeah I'm now finding out how good SHFF nair is. Thanks.
 
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