Zero Suit Samus Questions & Answers

[infiniteV115]

Can someone give me info on ZSS' dsmash locks? I know there's a thread for it, but that info is from 2008 and I don't think it's accurate
If you want me to be more specific...until what percent can we lock Captain Falcon with dsmash XD

 

[DUB]

Anyone know the names of some of the more well known foreign ZSS players? Any in Japan/EU?

 

[PEACE7]

Charby- EU I don't know if he still plays tho.
SSJ- EU
Tayim- EU
Quiksilver- EU
IKKI- Japan

 

[infiniteV115]

My general strategy so far has been to build up damage with uair (and of course other moves) and to kill with bair. Basically this means that I use uair at all percents, so it's quite stale and doesn't usually kill. I only use bair at kill percents so it's completely fresh.

I've noticed some others aren't as strict as I am about staling their bair, and kill with uair way more than I do.

You think I should change this?

 

[NickRiddle]

Just hit them until they die from something/
Peace logic.

 

[DUB]

Also, I know alot of ZSS players don't really use secondaries, but what are some of the best options? I don't particularly like the ZSS vs. Diddy matchup myself. Could someone list 2-3 characters that cover her worse matchups?

 

[FEAR977]

Also, I know alot of ZSS players don't really use secondaries, but what are some of the best options? I don't particularly like the ZSS vs. Diddy matchup myself. Could someone list 2-3 characters that cover her worse matchups?

Pikachu and Marth cover her bad matchups very well. I used pikachu for a while and he's very good in her bad matchups, especially against falco

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

nah

Puff is legit.

 

[infiniteV115]

I think I remember reading somewhere that ZSS has a regrab infinite on Wario (I know the dsmash>pivot grab>air release>repeat doesn't work), is this true?

 

[NickRiddle]

The D-smash doesn't work.
Wario can DI away + jump to get out.
We get regrab, but it's not easy.

 

[infiniteV115]

So how do we get regrab? Do we have to be frame perfect?
I'm assuming a buffered grab won't work, cause that would be pretty easy XD

 

[FEAR977]

What is our best option when fox or falco dairs our sheild?

 

[infiniteV115]

Don't know about how safe Fox's dair is on shield, but for Falco you utilt. Probably works for Fox too though.

If you utilt Falco and he's at really low percent (like...anything below 10-15, I don't know the exact numbers) then he can dair you afterwards. However after those, you can safely utilt and shield before the dair hits you.

Just hold shield after you utilt if they're at lower percents. They usually try to dair you out of it, but you can shield and then get in another utilt. The Falco player will usually learn after that point.
Basically utilt>shield his dair>utilt again.

FYI, utilt's range behind ZSS is bigger than the range in front of her, but even the one in front of her is decent.

 

[NickRiddle]

Falco is dair.
Fox generally tries to followup the dair. I'm not sure if you can u-tilt it, but you could probably f-roll to beat his options, then jab him or down-b away for the neutral.

 

[FEAR977]

All right, thanks a ton. I've been having a lot of trouble lately finding the best option when fox dairs my shield. Is a buffered SH uair oos a viable option as well?

 

[NickRiddle]

All right, thanks a ton. I've been having a lot of trouble lately finding the best option when fox dairs my shield. Is a buffered SH uair oos a viable option as well?

Buffere uair = usmash

 

[FEAR977]

Yeah...sorry. Didn't mean buffered. I just meant is a SH uair oos a viable option?

 

[BioDG]

So I'm working on the Diddy dsmash banana lock. I have everything working except for the instant dthrow toss (last dthrow before the landing). The banana bounces back up as planned but Diddy falls behind me. So, it looks like I have to be closer behind him vertically once I dthrow so he falls in front of me, right?

Just wondering if anyone has had this issue and what helped you to correct yourself.

 

[DeLux]

Buffere uair = usmash

Yeah...sorry. Didn't mean buffered. I just meant is a SH uair oos a viable option?

I buffer uair out of shield all the time...

Hold slightly up on analog stick and shield button > slide from jump to attack

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

FTR,

I find the best thing to do against Fox's nair is to Utilt when he hits the ground.
He may try to pull a jigglypuff and Dair-grab...

If you're shielding, try to forward roll like riddle says.
If not, Utilt can usually work.

 

[FEAR977]

I buffer uair out of shield all the time...

Hold slightly up on analog stick and shield button > slide from jump to attack

That's what I do. I didn't know that was buffered though. I just thought it was a plain SH uair oos.

 

[DeLux]

The point of doing the inputs in that manner is it allows you to buffer the Uair during the frames of jump squat animation. If you use the cstick or even fully tilt the analog stick past like .65? of the tilting threshold while hitting attack, jump squat animation is programmed to be interrupted by an usmash.

So the down side in trying to buffer it includes:

1. You might accidentally usmash (which is neutral since using the cstick with jump might accidentally cause that already)
2. You might accidentally grab if you mess up the jump input (which is neutral since using the cstick without jump might cause an ISSDI grab)
3. You might accidentally Nair (added risk mitigated by technical precision but an exchange for faster out of shield Uair times meaning better spacing on lower to the ground targets and closer to ideal frame advantage)

 

[Dakpo]

Yeah...sorry. Didn't mean buffered. I just meant is a SH uair oos a viable option?

Watch this match and decide for yourself if you think Up air out of shield is viable

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smhVDIGUpKI

Up Air and Up Smash out of shield are BOTH amazing and we need to be using them more! Honestly our character can play a lot like olimars shield game, which is amazing.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

West cooooooooooooooooooast!!!

 

[FEAR977]

Watch this match and decide for yourself if you think Up air out of shield is viable

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smhVDIGUpKI

Up Air and Up Smash out of shield are BOTH amazing and we need to be using them more! Honestly our character can play a lot like olimars shield game, which is amazing.

Oos Up Air is the best move in the game. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

I h ave a problem doing it so low to the ground.
If i'm in shield i tend to Oos Usmash.

Any tips?

 

[FEAR977]

You're holding the control stick too high.

 

[infiniteV115]

Yeah. As Delux said, don't hold up all the way. Hold it up slightly, as if you were trying to utilt with tap jump on. If you hold it too high, it changes to JCusmash.

 

[PEACE7]

How to fight icies as zss?

 

[BioDG]

Split them up, make more use of long range tactics, don't get grabbed? Others should have better input but that's all I got. :/

So, does anyone have insight on my question? :o

 

[infiniteV115]

How to fight icies as zss?

Space everything, **** Nana once you get her in the air. Get her offstage and spike her.
Don't use grounded sideB if they are/can get within the range of the first hitbox by the time it comes out. Don't use shorthop sideB, they can run under and grab.
If you ever land a grab (obviously be careful with grab) then bthrow/fthrow.
Wear down their shield with bair, dtilt, sideB, dsmash, etc. All of these should be safe on shield if spaced properly. Keep harassing the shield til it gets poked and you separate them, then destroy Nana with your everything cause Nana's dumb.
When Nana's offstage and trying to recover, she usually spams ice blocks. Learn the angle for this, and avoid them. If she's offstage and up high, approach her facing away from her. That way you can bair, or (if her ice blocks are preventing you from getting right in front of her) use the back hitbox of nair. Or upB spike>tether edgehog.

So I'm working on the Diddy dsmash banana lock. I have everything working except for the instant dthrow toss (last dthrow before the landing). The banana bounces back up as planned but Diddy falls behind me. So, it looks like I have to be closer behind him vertically once I dthrow so he falls in front of me, right?

Just wondering if anyone has had this issue and what helped you to correct yourself.

It doesn't necessarily have to be an instant dthrow toss. I hope you're not trying to ADCIT (air dodge-cancelled item toss), cause that's not necessary. Z-catch it (without airdodging) then move with the control stick and do the downward toss with the C-stick.
When you footstool, don't throw the banana downward immediately, wait for a bit.
If the 2nd banana hit is sending Diddy backwards, maybe you're not fastfalling? Or not doing it soon enough?

If you still can't get him to stop going behind you, it's okay. Just turn around and dsmash, you can still infinite that way.

 

[PEACE7]

Thank you so much man, i think one of my biggest problems in the mu is attempting lots of grounded sideb's and using them the wrong way but now I know what to do thanks nigg

 

[infiniteV115]

Note: I'm not the most experienced in the ICs MU, I've literally only faced 2 different ICs players, and 1 of them was on Norfair so that doesn't count.

With the second, I lost to him in winner's bracket, them beat him in GF, 3-0ing first set and 3-1ing 2nd
So, everything I told you to do is stuff that worked on him and is stuff that seems like it should work.

In other words, don't hate me if I'm wrong about something.

Edit: Oh yeah, never spotdodge>utilt. Be careful with utilt in general, it's laggy as ****.
Never EVER back roll. You should never even be backrolling in any MU but it's even worse in this one.
Air releases are good on sopo. I'm like 99% sure uair is guaranteed, fair might be guaranteed but I'm not sure. For both, you need to buffer the dash.
If they're on a platform right above you, usmash, it'll probably poke. If it doesn't, run away once it's done.

 

[opulentlifestyle]

Aiming ZSS's down-B

Hi! So I'm just starting out with Zero Suit Samus but I'm having trouble with aiming her down-B. I know you're supposed to be able to aim which direction she goes with it (I read the OP lol) but the startup is so quick I don't seem to get the left/right input in in time. Maybe about two thirds of the time I go in the direction I mean to, and probably some of that is just her default behavior. Should I be rotating the stick around the clock to the left or right as I start the move? Or smash it abruptly? I've tried both ways but still am having some trouble. Thanks.

 

[NickRiddle]

Hi! So I'm just starting out with Zero Suit Samus but I'm having trouble with aiming her down-B. I know you're supposed to be able to aim which direction she goes with it (I read the OP lol) but the startup is so quick I don't seem to get the left/right input in in time. Maybe about two thirds of the time I go in the direction I mean to, and probably some of that is just her default behavior. Should I be rotating the stick around the clock to the left or right as I start the move? Or smash it abruptly? I've tried both ways but still am having some trouble. Thanks.

To do a turn around side-b?
Just press side-b backwards.
If you're talking about the one where you shift your momentum, you side-b the way you're facing, then smash the stick the other way.
It's called "wavebouncing."

 

[infiniteV115]

He said downB.

opulentlifestyle, you can just hold the stick diagonally. eg if you wanted to downB to the left, hold diagonally down&left, and press B.

 

[NickRiddle]

He said downB.

opulentlifestyle, you can just hold the stick diagonally. eg if you wanted to downB to the left, hold diagonally down&left, and press B.

I completely misread.

In that case, just input it on a diagonal, like V115 said.

 

[Ralph Cecil]

Does he possibly just mean b-reversing? o-o

 

[opulentlifestyle]

He said downB.

opulentlifestyle, you can just hold the stick diagonally. eg if you wanted to downB to the left, hold diagonally down&left, and press B.

Thank you! And thank you as well NickRiddle. Yes I mean the flip jump, I'll have to go to practice mode again tonight and try to get the flow down for aiming it with the diagonal but not doing side-B instead then. I think part of it is me panicking when I'm trying to recover, thinking I'm going to flip jump in the opposite direction from the stage. And then I do, haha.

 

[BioDG]

Space everything, **** Nana once you get her in the air. Get her offstage and spike her.
Don't use grounded sideB if they are/can get within the range of the first hitbox by the time it comes out. Don't use shorthop sideB, they can run under and grab.
If you ever land a grab (obviously be careful with grab) then bthrow/fthrow.
Wear down their shield with bair, dtilt, sideB, dsmash, etc. All of these should be safe on shield if spaced properly. Keep harassing the shield til it gets poked and you separate them, then destroy Nana with your everything cause Nana's dumb.
When Nana's offstage and trying to recover, she usually spams ice blocks. Learn the angle for this, and avoid them. If she's offstage and up high, approach her facing away from her. That way you can bair, or (if her ice blocks are preventing you from getting right in front of her) use the back hitbox of nair. Or upB spike>tether edgehog.

What about when ICs pressure with iceblocks? I'm always tempted to retreat sh sideB at some point to cover an approach, but after reading this, that could be too risky of a primary option.

It doesn't necessarily have to be an instant dthrow toss. I hope you're not trying to ADCIT (air dodge-cancelled item toss), cause that's not necessary. Z-catch it (without airdodging) then move with the control stick and do the downward toss with the C-stick.
When you footstool, don't throw the banana downward immediately, wait for a bit.
If the 2nd banana hit is sending Diddy backwards, maybe you're not fastfalling? Or not doing it soon enough?

If you still can't get him to stop going behind you, it's okay. Just turn around and dsmash, you can still infinite that way.

That solved my problems. Thank you!