ZeRo Discusses His Top Five Characters In Smash For Wii U

[MarioMeteor]

Luigi has plenty of bad match ups, people just don't realize what they are.

"This food is nasty, the people who have already eaten and enjoyed it just don't realize it." They can't be all that bad if people don't notice it.

 

[MonkeyArms]

"This food is nasty, the people who have already eaten and enjoyed it just don't realize it." They can't be all that bad if people don't notice it.

I'm talking about people who don't main luigi.

 

[MarioMeteor]

I'm talking about people who don't main luigi.

I don't see how that makes what you said any less stupid.

 

[MonkeyArms]

I don't see how that makes what you said any less stupid.

Before I say anything else, that post will probably get reported and not from me.

Here's a list of luigis bad match ups
Yoshi
Toon link
Villager
Duck Hunt
Rob
Shulk
Olimar

Now why that may only be 7, considering a "top tier" can get wrecked by all these characters at high play, this is plenty.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Before I say anything else, that post will probably get reported and not from me.

Here's a list of luigis bad match ups
Yoshi
Toon link
Villager
Duck Hunt
Rob
Shulk
Olimar

Now why that may only be 7, considering a "top tier" can get wrecked by all these characters at high play, this is plenty.

Technically, anybody can get wrecked by anyone, even at high play. Luigi isn't special.

 

[MonkeyArms]

Technically, anybody can get wrecked by anyone, even at high play. Luigi isn't special.

He's winning evo.

 

[Dream Cancel]

Technically, anybody can get wrecked by anyone, even at high play. Luigi isn't special.

Give it a break, man. Yes, you're right. Technically, anybody can get wrecked by anyone, but at such a high level of play, differences or techniques that average players consider trivial can be game-breakers for professionals.

Apparently professionals find things in Luigi that they don't see in many other characters. That in and of itself is worth paying attention to.

 

[Jigglymaster]

Where is Mii Brawler in this video

ZeRo put in enough research to realize that the character isn't broken and is easily beatable if you know how to avoid his gimmick.

 

[Doruge]

ZeRo put in enough research to realize that the character isn't broken and is easily beatable if you know how to avoid his gimmick.

Tiny brawler though??

 

[Zoa]

I'm surprised Lucario isn't on his list considering he hasn't been changed much, and ZeRo went off some time ago about how he doesn't respect us Luc users.

 

[The Merc]

Hm. I have to say he is very on the mark with these Characters. But I have one question that is burning me.

It does make me sad that Characters like Robin aren't on his list.

 

[MarioMeteor]

He's winning evo.

Exactly. Same with DK. What could be trash to one person is gold to another.

Give it a break, man. Yes, you're right. Technically, anybody can get wrecked by anyone, but at such a high level of play, differences or techniques that average players consider trivial can be game-breakers for professionals.

Apparently professionals find things in Luigi that they don't see in many other characters. That in and of itself is worth paying attention to.

I don't recall asking for your input. I'll stop when I want to stop. If you haven't noticed, I believe that Luigi is top 5. Know both sides of the argument before you butt in.

I'm surprised Lucario isn't on his list considering he hasn't been changed much, and ZeRo went off some time ago about how he doesn't respect us Luc users.

As good as Lucario is, I'm not sure if he's top 10. Not as long as Rage exist.

 

[Doruge]

I don't recall asking for your input.

Nobody asked for your input either, bud

 

[MarioMeteor]

Nobody asked for your input either, bud

Touché. But because I'm such a kind person, I thought I'd grace you with it anyway.

 

[90007000]

Oh wait, how did Ness get to the top? Its just a kid... Surely the adult Captain Falcon would be able to spank him...

 

[TriTails]

Luigi is NOWHERE near Top 5. He isn't Top 10. Middle of Top 15 at best.

Yep. Luigi isn't even top tier. The guy has too many problems to be amazing.

 

[Zethoro]

Luigi is NOWHERE near Top 5. He isn't Top 10. Middle of Top 15 at best.

Yep. Luigi isn't even top tier. The guy has too many problems to be amazing.

Luigi may have glaring flaws, but his specific toolkit works incredibly well against other "top tiers" and can pull him through lower matchups. It's reverse of Brawl D3. Brawl D3 was fantastic and had positive MUs against pretty much everyone not a top-tier, but was held back because he couldn't face MK.
Sm4sh Luigi has pretty "eh" matchups with most of the cast, but has good matchups against top tiers, making him suddenly more viable.

 

[Code Bread]

to note this is note tier list of any kind,

What is happening right now. Also that t should be capitalized.

 

[Arc Tangent]

Where's the truth? Where's your proof? You don't like this game? Then leave it alone for those who do and stop being a salty brat towards those who disagree with Melee

When Smash 4 dies just like Brawl did we'll see who is a salty brat.

 

[atomicblast360]

The truth hurts. (prepares anus for hate)

You're creating useless arguments, let people play what they enjoy, not everyone prefers Melee. Brawl didn't "die" until after Apex 2014.

 

[MOI-ARI]

Zero is cute.

！(◎_◎

 

[Peinewood]

The Ness has been my main from the beginning, glad to see he is getting the recognition as a good character he deserves

 

[Arc Tangent]

You're creating useless arguments, let people play what they enjoy, not everyone prefers Melee. Brawl didn't "die" until after Apex 2014.

I don't remember seeing many Brawl tournaments for the past couple of years, and there certainly has been any Brawl exclusive tournaments. Anyway this is irrelevant, as soon as Smash 5 or whatever they'll call it comes out everyone will abandon this game. Smash 4's demise is inevitable, so you should just accept it.

 

[Charey]

Could we not start a fight between fanbases? You only make all of smash look bad.

 

[Jigglymaster]

Tiny brawler though??

Even easier to stop. He has less range and a worse grab range. Jabbing flat out stops him in his tracks and once you're passed 80% he's flat out pathetic bottom tier garbage, he has weaker moves than default with less range.

Let me state this again, the character has no air kill moves that don't send him into a helpless state, none of his grabs will kill you themselves and he has no grab follow-ups past 70%. His F-smash is a pile of garbage that hits on only frame 17 while having an insane amount of cool down. His U-smash is a weaker Fox u-smash with less range, and his d-smash is just weak.

As a Mii Brawler main you have to literally be ON POINT with getting the grab at just the right percent and then not screwing up your combo. Mii Brawler seems powerful because people don't realize how much of a small window he has to actually kill you early, but if you understand what percentage he needs you to be at, you can avoid him until he hits you with an air attack or something that puts you outside of the the % range he wants, then have fun because he's no longer killing you. Just shield a lot and bait out all the Up-B OoS he'll do since its his only semi-decent kill option at that point, if he grabs you, who cares? I already stated he can't kill you with a grab at this point.

Don't get me wrong, this character will DESTROY you if you don't know how to fight against it. But the moment you realize what his gameplan is and how easy it is to screw it up, it becomes a lot more manageable. Listen, just up until recently people are figuring out that DIing up is bad and Diing directly towards the stage horizontally is good. People were dying to Helicopter Kick FASTER due to BAD DI.

Have many people figured this out yet? No
Can Mii Brawler still be good if the player himself is good enough to get around these weaknesses? Yes

As a Mii Brawler main myself I've came across people who have understood my strategy well enough, they give me a lot of trouble.... so I understand my characters weaknesses. So I do whatever I can to counter-act them as well as come up with solutions when things don't go my way. It's what separates the best Mii Brawlers from the average ones.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

Is this really newsworthy? His stage analysis definitely was, but I watched this in my youtube subs and didn't really pay it any mind. Not even enough to show any friends.

 

[•Saıls•]

"It's like people just forgot about him at some point."

This is Luigi we're talking about. Nothing new.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

I don't remember seeing many Brawl tournaments for the past couple of years, and there certainly has been any Brawl exclusive tournaments. Anyway this is irrelevant, as soon as Smash 5 or whatever they'll call it comes out everyone will abandon this game. Smash 4's demise is inevitable, so you should just accept it.

Wow, somebody is miffed at people for liking the thing he hates. Go figure, it explains the petty behavior as well

 

[BuTTNutz]

ZeRo......the second coming of Ken!

 

[Swampy948]

When Smash 4 dies just like Brawl did we'll see who is a salty brat.

Lol Like Brawl? Boi, this is a completely different game. Just because you don't know how to adjust to something new doesn't mean it's bad, just means you need to git gud and learn again. I'm sorry there's no waveshining or easy bake Marths, oh boo hoo this game is terrible now! ;-;

If you can't prove why it's going to "fail" then you're wasting everyone's time. I'm done with you, kid. Good bye

 

[SphericalCrusher]

Although that is not my personal top 5 list, I have the world of respect for Zero and that list does make a lot of sense. Love this guy.

 

[Othingar Fireblood]

Marth is in top 5 and I am surprised that no one else sees it. I in fact am considering proving it but I still am thinking over a main, I might with support pick up marth.

 

[PlayerXIII]

I don't remember seeing many Brawl tournaments for the past couple of years, and there certainly has been any Brawl exclusive tournaments. Anyway this is irrelevant, as soon as Smash 5 or whatever they'll call it comes out everyone will abandon this game. Smash 4's demise is inevitable, so you should just accept it.

The demise of any game is inevitable mate. Even Melee will die one die. Even LoL will die one day. Be it because the new generation isn't interested meaning that once the current stars retire, no one will take their place or some salty kid like you who likes Smash 4 and dislikes Melee decides to go Osama Bin Laden on the place and bomb a major tournament with the most important players there for some stupid reason. If you don't like a game, stay off it's forums. We have Melee forums around here for a reason so go there and never leave. You're just ticking off people around here by hating on Smash 4 in Smash 4 related places and I'm pretty sure that's against the rules around here as well.

 

[Kyzael]

To be honest, tier lists like this makes me feel... well upset that it basically sounds like if I dont play this character, i'm just going to have a harder time winning while with someone playing Sheik, Luigi, Rosalina, or Diddy are just going to have a cake-walk.

*shrugs* I don't know. It's just my two cents on tier lists

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

I'd say that there are plenty more people care than there are like you that don't/hate ZeRo.

It's not like there's that many other people continually making so many good quality videos about Smash 4 at the moment anyway.

Although I'm not sure how much I agree with this video, but it's a pretty subjective thing at the moment so disagreements are natural I guess.

These people of which you speak, are youtube / armchair smashers. Many of them haven't touched a smash game prior to smash 4 and are not even serious player's. They're casuals in pseudo-competitive sheeps clothing. They use FGC terms but have no idea what they mean. I saw one of them on Reddit call airdodging "Wave dodging" *facepalm*

I don't think many real competitive players respect Zero as much as smash 4 noobs.

And to be quite blunt, if any of the top smashers from melee put 5-10 minutes into smash 4 and picked up shiek or something, they would easily beat Zero using hard reads.

He's a big fish in a small pond, one of the few smash 4 players with real experience from smash 64 / melee / brawl.

I agree that he's very good, probably better than me, but I don't think his opinion matters much to anyone aside from casuals that want to be good at smash without any effort... imo.

 

[KCB: Cloth]

Link -> D.... Guess he never played a good Link.

 

[leiraD]

Hey Zero, do you have any insights on low tier characters who may be working their way up the list as the meta-game continues to develop?

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Hey Zero, do you have any insights on low tier characters who may be working their way up the list as the meta-game continues to develop?

He didn't make this thread you fool, he's not going to answer your question. You have a better chance on Reddit lol.

This is what I'm talking about. Join date 2014, 60 posts on smashboards, wants advice from zero.
Le sigh......

 

[Reila]

Not for long...

ayy lmao

Seriously. It's really annoying. Zero this, Zero that. I don't care. Nobody cares.

I don't care about zero or any of those "smash celebrities", but posting this in a smash bros site is asking for trouble.

 

[DavemanCozy]

I'd be curious to know what his top 10 is.