Zelda's moveset impressions

[Chauzu]

It feels like there might exist some d-throw > fiar combo potential, if the right char at the right %. Will be interesting to look into more.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Aero, can you still DI Zelda's Dthrow the same way? As in, can you DI towards her and you fly far away where she can't pressure you?

I'm pretty sure you can, but maybe not at like, 0-10%.

I can't really test because lol computers

 

[BJN39]

^ I'm pretty sure you could actually just vector up and away from Dthrow and a followup will be almost impossible on like, 80% of the cast. I'm not 100% sure though. Also, Dthrow is still VERY slow, so like, on-the-spot vectoring it doesn't sound hard either if I'm correct about vectoring making it way worse.

 

[Katy Parry]

i don't need to watch nairo

i have the game

in my hand

i have looked at hundreds of moves through melee, project m and brawl and i can tell when a move is bad

dins and phantom are bad

get over it and stop trying to tell me otherwise

P.S. yes dins is smaller than brawl, no it's not a million times better than brawl dins, stop using the move

Okay one

Gotta drop that attitude. There's no

Need for it

Secondly sure, that's your opinion

And that's great

You're entitled to it

I was simply asking you a


question

Finally, Nario is someone I don't even follow or care about, but he is a pro player. If he's able to use it successfully consistently I think that merits some attention. I don't care if you have the game in your hand or not. It doesn't mean your insight is better than anyone else's who has it.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

ok

i understand it's very easy to be delusional, but sometimes pro players do not see things clearly early in the metagame.

Like how ROB was considered top tier in Brawl in v1 tier list <:

I can see things clearly though.

 

[A2ZOMG]

rofl okay. By that logic, we should not agree with CT ZeRo's initial Wii-U demo impressions of Zelda being terrible and dead last.

 

[BJN39]

^ Which SOME of us already didn't agree there.

I for one had thought she was DEFINITELY under researched and had more tricks the players of the E3 invitational hadn't found.

And I was right.

She's still not very incredible though.

 

[Katty Shepherd]

^ Which SOME of us already didn't agree there.

I for one had thought she was DEFINITELY under researched and had more tricks the players of the E3 invitational hadn't found.

And I was right.

She's still not very incredible though.

Unless we get PM Zelda I we'll never be high tier but I doubt that she's last place again. For god's sake she had another move now, down B may not be what we want exactly but it's better than next to nothing that transform was. It's another tool and I think a lot of people overlooked it during the E3 because of it's unfamiliarity/newness and now we're exploring some great potential.

 

[Katy Parry]

ok

i understand it's very easy to be delusional, but sometimes pro players do not see things clearly early in the metagame.

Like how ROB was considered top tier in Brawl in v1 tier list <:

I can see things clearly though.

You say all this as you post a picture from training mode.

None of us are saying Phantom and Din's are the best moves in the game. They're not. But we are saying that in THIS version of Smash, they are better options than she's had before. If its more effective to chase someone with Din's hoping they slip up, or charging Phantom on the way back to the stage; regardless of what option you choose you're able to give her more harass options that can KILL. Din's fully charged is lethal, let alone landing the sweetspotted hit box. Phantom can kill as well, at least has high knockback.

Secondly, you're calling us delusional when you're not even being open minded towards the application of the move. "I don't need to watch Nario to know"

Because obviously, you're the all knowing Zelda god. A pro player, right? I mean, obviously.

This is just as comparable as problems with our society today. Close minded

 

[Nairo]

i don't need to watch nairo

i have the game

in my hand

i have looked at hundreds of moves through melee, project m and brawl and i can tell when a move is bad

dins and phantom are bad

get over it and stop trying to tell me otherwise

P.S. yes dins is smaller than brawl, no it's not a million times better than brawl dins, stop using the move

lmao at dins fire being smaller than brawl and that the move is bad...her upsmash also isnt THAT reliable and the phantom while it isn't like super good it still has its uses lol and you didnt put that farore's winds 2nd hitbox can actually kill now BUT you seem like you know what you are talking about since you have the game right?????????

 

[KuroganeHammer]

sry i cant find the image i was looking for

 

[Nairo]

your picture looks like right when it blows up(and lol subspace) so I tried to find the same thing from smash 4 it isnt the best picture but you can still see a good amount of it (http://prntscr.com/4s5ts7) (IM A SMASHBOARDS NOOB FORGIVE ME)

 

[A2ZOMG]

Somewhat off topic, but since you're here, my question to you is what matchups do you think are hard for Zelda, Nairo?

 

[Nairo]

Somewhat off topic, but since you're here, my question to you is what matchups do you think are hard for Zelda, Nairo?

From what I've played only one or two matchups have been really annoying for zelda > IMO < which are little mac and MAYBE ness but other than those two the other matchups ive done with her SO FAR dont seem too bad if she loses them and she does well vs some characters (Example : I think she does well vs DHD, if I read when the DHD throws the frisbee I can land a upb punish which is good since it can kill in this game). I also havent fought vs the whole roster (being controlled by a human at least) so I cant say everything or anything as a fact of course since the game hasnt been out for long.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

ok so i was busy before I didn't have time to respond to these dirty mad men

but now sisters

I have the time

Here's din's fires approximate size in smash 4

@ Alacion you can vouch for me that this is no where NEAR Brawl's Din's Fire size, remember KayLo!'s Din's Fire image? That **** was HUGE (like 3x the height of Zelda)

Spoiler: brawls

yet here we are apex champion is trying to tell a ☆frame data goddess☆ (source + more) like me that smash 4 dins is bigger than brawl dins

Now... @ Nairo .......... I mean no disrespect

Out of 100 games you would probably beat me 100 times since i am just a kawaii australian girl

but this doesn't make ME wrong

I know what I'm talking about

The fact that you can't tell that Din's range got nerfed tells me that you don't

this is almost like that ~ONE TOP PLAYER~ who insisted that G&W was the best character in Brawl

Oh dear oh my

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I hadn't really been reading her post but did Nairo really try to act like she knew more than you?

yes lol

see quote:

lmao at dins fire being smaller than brawl and that the move is bad...

 

[KuroganeHammer]

DIN'S CHANGES FROM BRAWL

Damage: 8-16% -> 7-14%
Range: lowered by approximately 25%
Hitbox size: Decreased by approximately 30%
Speed: ~the same~

But don't worry guys

It's a viable move!

 

[A2ZOMG]

Cool observation. This game also isn't Brawl, and not only was the majority of the cast nerfed to varying degrees, land trapping and edge trapping became a million times better and Din's still has low ending lag.

The most important thing about Smash 4 Dins is it appears to have the same frame data, while landing with airdodge got universally nerfed extremely hard. Dins is good at forcing airdodges.

And somehow, you want people to stop using it.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

eidt: quoting in case red tyrant

A damn MESS.

Nairo getting CLOCKED left and right on the Zelda boards.

Poor ha






But wait.
I thought he was "one of the best" Zeldas?

I thought he was the master of Zeldas because he got second in some tournament a day after the game was released.

Aero DRAGGING him with the receipts.

Nairo sis, just stop.
You're better off just waiting for the tier list so you can pick the best character again and win tournaments with them.

This whole arguing about other peoples character isn't a good look for you.

Din's still has low ending lag.

It really doesn't

It Brawl it had like, 34 frames of endlag

And it has even less priority because of the damage decrease?

I know the range got nerfed but what about the angling, from what I saw it looked like it didn't go as high.
Is there anything special about the sweetspot other than damage?
Is the ending lag the same too? In other words, still crap?

angling is the same
nope
It feels the same-ish in Smash 4, I'd guess about 30 frames of endlag.

 

[A2ZOMG]

It really doesn't

It Brawl it had like, 34 frames of endlag

That is not a lot, given the situations you are using the move.

If you're timing that a bit above average short hop height, in which position it could take a quarter to half a second to reach the ground and I forget if landing with airdodge is something like 20 frames, short story is Dins is able to put you at a very strong positional advantage, one where you are very likely to have enough time to F-smash people who land with airdodge close to you.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

how is 30 frames not a lot......................................................................................................................

welp, i guess warlock punch is a fast move now

Edit: I'm going to sleep. I need my beauty sleep or my name isn't Samantha

Good night

 

[Novice_Brave]

how is 30 frames not a lot......................................................................................................................

welp, i guess warlock punch is a fast move now

Edit: I'm going to sleep. I need my beauty sleep or my name isn't Samantha

Good night

Now, I'm not going to say that Din's Fire is a "good" move because it's really not. I don't think it's worse than, say, PK Flash or FLUDD or a variety of other fairly useless special moves, but it's definitely not a great move by any means. However, I will say that I do personally think you should tone down the fairly useless rudeness, arrogance (intentional or not), and overall pessimism. We get that you don't think Zelda is very good, and you're probably right in that she will not be near top tier. Does that mean she will be the worst character or unviable in any situation? No, it doesn't. Does it mean she has no good attacking options at all and no good straight buffs? No, it doesn't. I still firmly believe that she is very much better and more viable than in any past iteration, and really - I'm fine with that.

And frankly, I'm much less open to taking what someone says seriously when they're flat out rude about it. And when they quote Fougen for backup, because Fougen (and their MANY accounts) is legitimately one of the most obnoxious, rude, and downright unpleasant people I have ever had the displeasure of meeting on an online forum. I'm sorry Fougen - I'm... sure you have friends and family who think you're great, but I really think you should reassess how you act and treat people on a public forum. So, yeah, just - I recommend you tone everything down a notch or two. I'll be much more inclined to want to listen and discuss with you if you treat people like equals rather than idiots who just seem to exhaust you and your superiority.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Right, nobody here is trying to prove Zelda is top or high tier, or that Dins/Phantom are outstanding moves. Hell, most of us who are watching videos can probably observe that the move does have a smaller hitbox as other Zelda players misspace it in some situations. Hell, I've consistently agreed that using Up-B offensively is a terrible idea outside doing it once to ensure your opponent remains honest.

BUT, that's not the big picture. There is PLENTY of video evidence that demonstrates that all of Zelda's moves have uses that aren't just gimmicky or pointless. And from what knowledge we have collected about general mechanics, they are all things that Zelda benefits from considerably, and these buffs make her a complete character who can viably contest most of the cast in common situations. A well played Zelda can approach, get a hit, and confirm a KO. She clearly has the tools to establish a gameplan with realistic conditions that can be met and aren't automatically shut down by a flowchart.

Matchups are largely unexplored, though Zelda has more reason to be considered competitively due to the prevalence of zoning characters.

 

[PrimalCarnage]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Pt77tRxcE8
Does fully-charged default phantom shield-break? (2:26) That shield looked pretty full...

---

I think it's still too early to decide where she'll end up, but if I was the betting type I'd go for low-mid tier.

 

[A2ZOMG]

That didn't look like a shield break to me. At the same time, I should mention this isn't the first time I've seen something odd like that happen. I'm actually wondering if the move has unblockable properties.

Not that you'll take advantage of that too often, but that would be handy to know.

 

[PrimalCarnage]

That didn't look like a shield break to me. At the same time, I should mention this isn't the first time I've seen something odd like that happen. I'm actually wondering if the move has unblockable properties.

Not that you'll take advantage of that too often, but that would be handy to know.

It's definitely weird, there's an apparent lightening-like effect that I don't think normal-hit phantom delivers.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Now, I'm not going to say that Din's Fire is a "good" move because it's really not. I don't think it's worse than, say, PK Flash or FLUDD or a variety of other fairly useless special moves, but it's definitely not a great move by any means. However, I will say that I do personally think you should tone down the fairly useless rudeness, arrogance (intentional or not), and overall pessimism. We get that you don't think Zelda is very good, and you're probably right in that she will not be near top tier. Does that mean she will be the worst character or unviable in any situation? No, it doesn't. Does it mean she has no good attacking options at all and no good straight buffs? No, it doesn't. I still firmly believe that she is very much better and more viable than in any past iteration, and really - I'm fine with that.

And frankly, I'm much less open to taking what someone says seriously when they're flat out rude about it. And when they quote Fougen for backup, because Fougen (and their MANY accounts) is legitimately one of the most obnoxious, rude, and downright unpleasant people I have ever had the displeasure of meeting on an online forum. I'm sorry Fougen - I'm... sure you have friends and family who think you're great, but I really think you should reassess how you act and treat people on a public forum. So, yeah, just - I recommend you tone everything down a notch or two. I'll be much more inclined to want to listen and discuss with you if you treat people like equals rather than idiots who just seem to exhaust you and your superiority.

wait how am i being rude about it?

i made a note about how it's still useless and you're better off probably taunting and I got a bunch of hostile AND UNTRUE!!!!!!!! responses like:

You can actually legit land trap people with Smash 4 Dins due to general mechanics changes meaning if they airdodge it, they're more open to be punished by your ground game. That makes it a million times more useful than Brawl Dins.

Have you watched any of Nario's matches? if anything, he's proved that Phantom is a good option here and there. Giving her another tool to pressure with is certainly better than what she's had before...

Same goes for Din's Fire, the hitbox is increased

And holy hell, you're delusional.

Okay one

Gotta drop that attitude. There's no

Need for it

Secondly sure, that's your opinion

And that's great

You're entitled to it

I was simply asking you a

question

You say all this as you post a picture from training mode.

None of us are saying Phantom and Din's are the best moves in the game. They're not. But we are saying that in THIS version of Smash, they are better options than she's had before. If its more effective to chase someone with Din's hoping they slip up, or charging Phantom on the way back to the stage; regardless of what option you choose you're able to give her more harass options that can KILL. Din's fully charged is lethal, let alone landing the sweetspotted hit box. Phantom can kill as well, at least has high knockback.

Secondly, you're calling us delusional when you're not even being open minded towards the application of the move. "I don't need to watch Nario to know"

Because obviously, you're the all knowing Zelda god. A pro player, right? I mean, obviously.

This is just as comparable as problems with our society today. Close minded

i honestly don't know why i didn't infract these people

maybe i should start now

 

[GameAngel64]

Hi, I got the game yesterday and am hoping it is okay to put my thoughts on Zelda's moveset here. Making a new thread did not seem like the thing to do, but I could be wrong about that. Anyway, so far I have only been playing CPUs (aside from one really laggy online match with someone in Japan), so take my current impressions for what they're worth.

I have been a dedicated and relatively successful Zelda main since her appearance in Melee, so I feel like I know her pretty well. These are some of the distinctions I have noticed between her former iterations and her current one so far:

• Her side tilt is one of her better kill moves now, better than F-Smash (especially since even the CPUs fall out of that one).
  
• I'm used to her U-Smash being able to kill much more easily, but it's not so easy in this game, even if all the hits connect perfectly. That might just be due to a physics change in the game overall, but this is just something I noticed.
  
• You all already know that her U-Tilt is no longer a kill move. It's okay for hitting the CPUs a few times in a row, but not sure about a human player.
  
• For as hard as it is to land her U-Air I would think it should be able to KO much more easily, but it doesn't. Again, could be a physics issue where most stuff is just more survivable.
  
• I am sad about Din's Fire being nerfed. No more detonating it behind a character and still hitting, and the travel distance is much decreased. Mobility also feels more stiff/limited. Old news, but it still hurts. Now it really feels like a lame move.
  
• Farore's Wind is indeed a pretty powerful move now, but I am having a hell of a time using the 3DS control stick to aim 100% precisely with it. Maybe this is just an issue of me needing to practice with the new controller more, but I have always been damn accurate with this move in the past games. As we all know, this is not a move you want to miscalculate. Ever.
• Not liking the Phantom. It is so stupid that it cannot hit opponents right next to you at all (just leaves you open as it glides harmlessly through them), and it is pretty impractical to launch it any distance, in most situations, due to the charge up time. You all have already seen what it can do. Yeah, I guess you could use it for edge guarding, but I feel like there are usually better options. This is probably a move I need to practice with more though since I am so used to my "regular" Zelda playstyle. As an aside (SPOILERS?)
  Spoiler

  when you fight the Master Core shadow version of Zelda it is amazing how easily and quickly the Phantom can travel across the whole stage since Zelda starts the battle off so HUGE
  .

This gripe is not about Zelda specifically, but I find it incredibly hard to keep a track of my character when there is a 4 person free for all and the camera is zooming all over the place. I have a 3DS XL so the larger screen helps most of the time, but there are some situations where the smaller-than-TV screen is really annoying. It is also much harder on my hands to play a long time on the 3DS in the frenzied manner I'm accustomed to as opposed to the relatively comfy GameCube controller.

I have played the game for only the last two evenings (still hours and hours though) so my impressions might change. But to be honest right now I am finding it really frustrating to play as Zelda. Obviously she has never been a character for the weak of heart, and in the past I have always found a special niche with her. This time around I am just not enjoying all of her deficiencies. It could just be a matter of needing more practice with this new system. It could be a matter that I am just fighting CPUs which as we all know is a totally different experience than playing with a human being. But on the other hand there are characters I have never even played before, like the Wii Fit Trainer, that I enjoyed using a lot more and actually performed better out of the gate with. There could be a lot of reasons for this (needing to unlearn some stuff, having pre-set expectations for how Zelda ought to play, etc.), but this is all causing me to do a lot of serious thinking about whether or not I want to continue using such a historically disadvantaged character who seems at first more disadvantaged than ever. It's not even so much that I want to use the "best" character (obviously I have been happy to play as one of the worst characters for a long time), but right now it just feels really annoying to play as her. I am not trying to rain on anyone's parade with my pessimism. I even suspect my outlook may improve as I continue to use her in the new game.

Anyway, there will be a better variety of opinions in the coming days once the game has released. Sorry for any typos or incoherency on my part; I've stayed up much later than I probably should have because of this game, and because of my compulsion to share these thoughts with you all.

 

[Novice_Brave]

wait how am i being rude about it?

i made a note about how it's still useless and you're better off probably taunting and I got a bunch of hostile AND UNTRUE!!!!!!!! responses like:






i honestly don't know why i didn't infract these people

maybe i should start now

I wouldn't say most of those are hostile. The last one is pretty unnecessary but yeah the others are just arguing against your point. Your "rudeness" is mostly just comprised of little comments that are kind of unnecessary. Like replying to arguments with things along the lines of just "I... what? Welp. I'm (insert how you're leaving here)" and,
"get over it and stop trying to tell me otherwise"
Idk, giving off a vibe of "smug superiority" if you will. Not sure you're even doing that intentionally but the vibe is received regardless.

That said, I'm sure your information is plenty factual and it's nice that you're giving it to us. And you're nowhere near as bad as Foujen. But yeah, just telling you that I think the reason you might be seeing these "hostile" responses is because you do put off a vibe that might make people go into defensive mode. :s

All in all tho, I'm still very convinced that this Zelda is the best Zelda so far and I am really excited to play around with her. I'm excited to see what I can do with her Phantom, and how well a combination of Phantoms and Din's allows for some stage control presence. She still had plenty of solid kill moves in a game where killing is looking to be one of the bigger issues, and she's just "faster" and "cleaner" in a lot of respects. She's definitely been smoothed out as a solo character, and I can't wait to play it myself. Not much else left for me to say now other than this game is coming out in like, 24 hours YESPLS.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Hostile?

You have terrible arguments, explanations, and you have cited information that is either false or misleading. And, you expect people to just...not be annoyed by it?

Congrats on using images to show that Dins is visually smaller. I genuinely appreciate the effort, but that argument is simultaneously missing the point when it's for a move that you basically couldn't land in singles, and led to almost nothing. Melee Dins was more landable than Brawl Dins realistically if you count edgeguard shenanigans on all the terribad recoveries that existed in that game. And that move was also entirely useless.

Nobody is saying Smash 4 Dins is a great move. It is by far a more practical and useful move than any other iteration of Dins Fire when it has the range and frame data to force the opponent to airdodge in really bad positions, where once they land, they're basically open for a free F-smash.

Which to reiterate, would basically never happen in Brawl except against like Bowser.

Then the whining about Faores being terrible simultaneously is highlighting it in its most unintelligent applications (it getting shielded rofl) and aside from the fact I'm almost certain there's plenty of Brawl footage that demonstrates the move was already quite useful for mobility purposes, you also failed to cite that the buffs to Faores solves an important weakness for Zelda: not having a KO followup at long range. Why's that important? If for whatever reason you wanted to, you could basically run/DI away from previous iterations of Zelda, and she'd never be a threat because her run speed is awful. In this game, if you're at 100% and Zelda knows where you're landing, you DIE.

I'm offended you refuse to acknowledge edge trapping. All the data to edges point to it being a universal source of free kills against characters with bad mobility mixup options. Which conveniently enough isn't Zelda by a longshot, while in the meantime, Zelda is probably one of the scariest characters to get past if you're on the edge. Edge stalling no longer being safe benefits Zelda HUGELY, when edge trapping has generally been one of her strong points.

You want to be treated respectfully? I respect commitment, detail, and accuracy. You've only put in marginal effort to maintain the last one for very minor and specific things.

 

[Alacion]

@ Alacion you can vouch for me that this is no where NEAR Brawl's Din's Fire size, remember KayLo!'s Din's Fire image? That **** was HUGE (like 3x the height of Zelda)

Oh I thought this was a generally accepted thing.

Now I do not know if Din's Fire has changed from the Wii U demo, but if Din's Fire is still cancelled by using any character's nair, then Din's Fire still sucks.

Smashboards stop breaking!

Edit:

http://youtu.be/lO3ZXn2DQis?t=2m50s <- Would Din's have killed if it were Smash 4?

I also think Dsmash will be a good move by virtue of its speed and horizontal knockback when the Wii U version is out.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Zelda's entire moveset in this game is good and useful.

The fact D-smash is legitimately her worst move should be a statement to attest to this. Given her D-smash is CLEARLY useful, but suboptimal/outclassed for covering options reliably.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Edit:

http://youtu.be/lO3ZXn2DQis?t=2m50s <- Would Din's have killed if it were Smash 4?

No, because that would have have been well outside the sweetspot range of the Smash4 Din's.

 

[「 Derk 」]

This entire thread is a good example of why I rarely post in the Zelda forums. Many posts consist of:
Oh, you have an opinion? Well you better make sure it is the same opinion as mine or I will type a bunch of angry words at you to prove I am right! Every single Zelda thread I read has some sort of snarky player that thinks they know everything about the character possible and they can never be wrong. If you stated what you have to say without resorting to make yourself sound like a 10 year old more people would probably listen or actually take the time to read it in the first place. Everyone has an opinion and I guarantee at least one of them is going to disagree with yours and that's okay. If you have the math that can prove your point then great! If you just want to argue with someone about your opinion I am sure there are plenty of people that honestly don't care.

Has Din's Fire been nurfed? Yes. Is it worse than it was in the past due to the nurf? Depends on how you use it.
The damage, range, and radius of Din's Fire has been decreased so in this aspect it is worse than it was in past games. The other games also lacked what now makes this move good. Landing lag after air dodging is game changing. This means you can force your opponent into choices that they don't want to make. Do I eat the Din's Fire or do I dodge it and get punished due to my increased landing lag? Zelda is a trapping character so if you are just throwing a Din's Fire and expecting something to happen then obviously the move is going to look weaker now...

Is Farore's wind better? You bet it is! Is it usable as a kill option? Depends on how you use it.
Farore's Wind is kinda like a magic trick. You can amaze people with it a few times but if you do the same trick over and over it loses its value. This move is for punishing, reads, and amazing for mobility and getting out of bad situations. This has been stated many times in the thread so far but people are either ignoring it or just don't care. If you teleport into someone on the ground 30 times guess what happens? They shield it and punish you. Pretty simple right? How do we avoid this? Don't give them the option to shield it in the first place. Use Farore's Wind as a surprise move for when the opponent uses a move that can be punished. Link trying to zone you out with projectiles? Teleport in and punish them. Pikachu whiffed a Thunder? Sounds like a good time for a free stock. This move is an amazing move to punish projectile users because by the time they start throwing a projectile you can simply pass through it and hit them before they can act again.

Is Phantom Slash a waste of a moveslot? Depends on how you use it. There's that phrase again, I think is means something!
Similar to many of Zelda's moves it is tricky and interesting. This move can be used in many different situations but the most important one (for me anyways) is edge guarding. But Derk you silly goose we already have Din's for that! Remember how Din's 3rd custom stays in place and detonates shortly after being set? Use that with Phantom Slash offstage to set up hazards and force your opponents in bad positions. Again... Zelda is a trapping character. You have to play her differently than anyone else in smash. That is why most people are so bad with her because they try to Leyroy Jenkins and kick everyone in the face without using their projectiles. If you force someone to recover lower due to dodging a Din's Fire then jump offstage while charging a Phantom guess what happens? You line yourself up with them and somebody is eating a fully charged Phantom.

Nobody knows Zelda's full potential yet, myself included. It doesn't help when the Zelda players themselves trash their own character and players based on their opinions. If she does not meet your expectations in Smash 4 then go find a different character.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Oh I thought this was a generally accepted thing.

Now I do not know if Din's Fire has changed from the Wii U demo, but if Din's Fire is still cancelled by using any character's nair, then Din's Fire still sucks.

you can still cancel it with aerials

 

[Nairo]

ok so i was busy before I didn't have time to respond to these dirty mad men

but now sisters

I have the time

View attachment 26529

Here's din's fires approximate size in smash 4

@ Alacion you can vouch for me that this is no where NEAR Brawl's Din's Fire size, remember KayLo!'s Din's Fire image? That **** was HUGE (like 3x the height of Zelda)

Spoiler: brawls

View attachment 26535

yet here we are apex champion is trying to tell a ☆frame data goddess☆ (source + more) like me that smash 4 dins is bigger than brawl dins

Now... @ Nairo .......... I mean no disrespect

Out of 100 games you would probably beat me 100 times since i am just a kawaii australian girl

but this doesn't make ME wrong

I know what I'm talking about

The fact that you can't tell that Din's range got nerfed tells me that you don't

this is almost like that ~ONE TOP PLAYER~ who insisted that G&W was the best character in Brawl

Oh dear oh my

thats cool that you proved me wrong about range i guess but the main thing about all this was that you said that the move is bad and shouldnt be used which I disagree with lol. >IMO< it getting buffed in knockback evens out the range being nerfed >IMO< I also didnt know that being apex champion means to know every detail of brawl thats interesting to know and I never brought up you being wrong if im better than you I can be wrong (which I was for the range wow I can admit that I was wrong about something!?!) but yea all I wanted to say was to not just assume that dins/phantom is completely useless experiment with them, the game just came out so who knows if you can find a neat trick with them

 

[Katy Parry]

you can still cancel it with aerials

Then you've got landing lag. That's essentially worse than air dodging into the ground.

 

[Alacion]

That's usually not an issue. Rising aerials are the way to go... and then you have Peach who can aerial in a float and every one of her aerials has the ability to cancel Din's. (Her dair would have to be against weaker hits though)

Certain other attacks like some dash attacks and specials cancel Din's Fire also.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

The only mechanic that really seems to throw a bone to Din's Fire in this game compared to Brawl is air dodge landing lag. That doesn't really seem like enough to redeem it, since you're not going to able to punish after using Din's Fire yourself. It just looks like the beginning of Brawl when people thought Din's Fire was way better than it actually wound up being despite having a huge hitbox going for it. Smaller size, not as much range, still clankable, negligible damage/KB without sweetspot, etc. = somehow winds up being worse than Brawl Din's Fire.

Din's Sniping is fast and threatening at just about any range with its kill power, but looks even easier to avoid despite its increased rate of fire.

Din's Residue, despite its slowness on the deploy and release, might be the only viable option in the end for its edgeguard applications. Unless they can just clank that too with their recovery moves...

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Hey it's @ RyokoYaksa ! Yooooo!