Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

[Lavani]

I feel like I'm being misinterpreted, so I'll just drop it after this post.

It's great against multihits that don't true combo, like jab combos (including Link/Fox/Dedede's "infinites") and probably Mario's dair (someone should look into this one, considering how scary dair>fair is), and it's great for interrupting aerial strings with small gaps to escape from, like Diddy's dthrow>uair at kill percents or botched ZSS aerial juggles. Showcasing it against things like Link's/Diddy's fsmash/usmash in a grounded situation where shielding would be the better and more practical option and the upB does nothing to save you if the first hit's already happened is where I find it to be a sketchy/poor showcase of what the move offers to the user.

Thus, why is make it very clear they're estimates. (That are possibly a couple frames off) The moves I've done were ones whose speed seems unchanged from Brawl's, and their results were very very similar (and even identical) numbers to their Brawl numbers, and that way we can have something to look at until we can get the legit frame data. I'll be careful.

gorl i hope u know what ur doin

I guess something's better than nothing though, but if you can get gifs for all of these moves surely you can just grab frame data from those?

 

[Macchiato]

Thus, why is make it very clear they're estimates. (That are possibly a couple frames off) The moves I've done were ones whose speed seems unchanged from Brawl's, and their results were very very similar (and even identical) numbers to their Brawl numbers, and that way we can have something to look at until we can get the legit frame data. I'll be careful.

BJ I think we should sticky the custom lab. As it seems, customs are becoming a thing like at evo and its probably gonna be legal. Why not sticky it since we have all the main threads a board needs.

 

[Fernosaur]

I feel like I'm being misinterpreted, so I'll just drop it after this post.

It's great against multihits that don't true combo, like jab combos (including Link/Fox/Dedede's "infinites") and probably Mario's dair (someone should look into this one, considering how scary dair>fair is), and it's great for interrupting aerial strings with small gaps to escape from, like Diddy's dthrow>uair at kill percents or botched ZSS aerial juggles. Showcasing it against things like Link's/Diddy's fsmash/usmash in a grounded situation where shielding would be the better and more practical option and the upB does nothing to save you if the first hit's already happened is where I find it to be a sketchy/poor showcase of what the move offers to the user.

Oh I think I get what you mean now. I don't think D3RK can make a video of that though cause he's controlling both characters at the same time, hahahaha. We'd probably need two people testing the move and saving replays for that to work oTL

 

[Macchiato]

@ Fernosaur are we done with squall? We should move to rejection next

 

[「 Derk 」]

Oh I think I get what you mean now. I don't think D3RK can make a video of that though cause he's controlling both characters at the same time, hahahaha. We'd probably need two people testing the move and saving replays for that to work oTL

Pretty much this, I was just making examples of something I could do controlling both characters. It's very hard to do anything air based when controlling multiple characters (or anything involving multiple button inputs for both controllers) so I just stuck to basic examples I could actually do. I don't expect anyone to blow away Diddy's F-smash when you can get a free grab into a potential kill setup. I was just showing the effects of how you could possibly escape kill options by using the wind box to force them out of range.

 

[Fernosaur]

@ Fernosaur are we done with squall? We should move to rejection next

I'm not sure if we're done. I'd like to make a compilation video of Squall being used in actual battles, but if you guys wanna look for hidden things in penissism feel free to do so!! Just write down everything you find in the custom lab so that I don't have to hunt down for info later in this thread.

 

[Cenizas]

Maybe you should announce that you're looking for challengers to test Squall against in the custom thread or something.

 

[Fernosaur]

Maybe you should announce that you're looking for challengers to test Squall against in the custom thread or something.

The difficult thing for me is that I don't have much free time to test these things oTL. But I think once I'm a bit more loose with my deadlines I definitely will.

 

[Macchiato]

I would help by adding some gameplay but all of them would just be replays of me accidentally SDing

 

[Twili]

Oh my god, I'm laughing so hard I'm crying. What's it like to live with cats? Well..

Living with my parents, we have seven cats. Mom and I were in the living room on the couches, each holding a cat while another, Mollie, was next to my couch. Mom tells me to pretend to throw something for her, and she chases after the nonexistent object that I throw. We're laughing, mom does it as well, and I do it again, each time with Mollie chasing nothing. We get up, and mom finds a tin foil ball so that Mollie actually has something to chase. She throws it into the dining room, and sure enough Mollie runs after it.... sliding headfirst into a wall. This is why you own cats, because they're so damn funny to live with.

 

[Furret]

Oh my god, I'm laughing so hard I'm crying. What's it like to live with cats? Well..

Living with my parents, we have seven cats. Mom and I were in the living room on the couches, each holding a cat while another, Mollie, was next to my couch. Mom tells me to pretend to throw something for her, and she chases after the nonexistent object that I throw. We're laughing, mom does it as well, and I do it again, each time with Mollie chasing nothing. We get up, and mom finds a tin foil ball so that Mollie actually has something to chase. She throws it into the dining room, and sure enough Mollie runs after it.... sliding headfirst into a wall. This is why you own cats, because they're so damn funny to live with.

and I thought the three my parents take care of is too many. I have a cat that sits on my shoulder though. Does that make me seaworthy yet?

 

[Ffamran]

Jeez was this really Nov 2, time flies

Ahem. SHORYUKEN!

 

[Deleted member]

Wait the dead one or the disney one.

Why must you put it like that ;-; And I'm talking about Selena Quintanilla (the first choice ;-; )

 

[Twili]

and I thought the three my parents take care of is too many. I have a cat that sits on my shoulder though. Does that make me seaworthy yet?

We didn't plan to have seven. It just sort of.. happened over several years.

And I used to have a cat that would sit on my back if I bent over while holding her. They're all so interesting with their individual personalities, aren't they?

 

[Lavani]

Though speaking of powershield vs Squall, that does raise one point of consideration in my mind; if you get grabbed during Squall's startup (if you can even get grabbed during the startup), maybe you could force a grab break going over the ledge like what Falcon and MK can do with their dash grab; opponents that fall faster than Zelda would be setting themselves up to get daired.

So I decided to test this

It doesn't give me the results I was expecting...in fact it actually gives really weird results, but they're positive ones for Zelda. Will have a gfy in the next 10 minutes or so.

 

[Macchiato]

I give up on Passion. Its useless

Spoiler: language

 

[Furret]

We didn't plan to have seven. It just sort of.. happened over several years.

And I used to have a cat that would sit on my back if I bent over while holding her. They're all so interesting with their individual personalities, aren't they?

kinda hard not to agree with that.

 

[Nammy12]

That's it, someone heeya needs to make a TRUE Zelda character description instead of this one.

EdiT : Actually, if anyone wants to get me a good pic of black dress Zelda in this angle and pose ^ in the desc. picture, (On this stage too, why not. It has a godd background.) I would be very much obliged, as It has good potential as a black dress Zelda w/ salt shaker pic. :D

I'm not too good at quotes so someone else can do that.

Also, because fun.

 

[Ffamran]

We didn't plan to have seven. It just sort of.. happened over several years.

And I used to have a cat that would sit on my back if I bent over while holding her. They're all so interesting with their individual personalities, aren't they?

I wished I had a kitty... Or a corgi. Something fluffy...

@kaazers.

 

[Lil Puddin]

I have been tinkering with Naryu's Passion. It's actually useful in the weirdest of ways. Yes, it's suction is very easy to avoid. Yes, it's a slightly faster, kinda bigger, but not ranged Burst Grenade (Sheik's default SideB). It doesn't have any real kill potential on stage despite dealing a lump of 15% damage (WTF IS THAT). It does have a very fun use... Rejection/Love when used off stage can't easily gimp an opponent since you refresh their UpB and cancel their current UpB instead of redirecting it a la Mario's Cape.

Naryu's Passion on the other hand is all out offense, so it's a bit stronger and throws targets a bit further. In addition to that, it is very good at pulling spot dodgers or aerial dodgers into its blast zone. So what's that mean? Take to the skies and start using the thing. It's probably the better aerial Naryu option since it can draw in from above or kind of below. Whereas the other Naryu options have blind spots towards the tips. Passion can be used close to the side blast zones to really screw someone up who's only at 60%. SURE! You could Dair or Fair/Bair... But those can be easily dodged and then there's the delay after using them. Naryu's Passion lets you kind of float midair for a bit and can really ruin a dodger's day. It's like a slightly better Nair in terms of catching aerial foes. If you saved your 2nd jump you can use it again or follow into another aerial attack.

IMO: Vanilla Naryu's Love is probably still the best Naryu option. It's very anti-situational and can be used for so many things it's almost ridiculous. It gives you intangibility, reflect, 11%-15% damage, acts as a panic button, gives you plenty of space, changes aerial momentum, comes out quickly, and can even be used to edge guard. It should be called Naryu's OP. for real tho

 

[「 Derk 」]

I give up on Passion. Its useless

I like Nayru's Passion. I think I just like bad things .

 

[Macchiato]

I'm not too good at quotes so someone else can do that.
View attachment 39573

Snake deconfirmed for DLC

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

An accurate Zelda quiz thingy:

Spoiler

Snake deconfirmed for DLC

Sheik stole his grenades, so I guess Zelda did boot him out.

 

[Lavani]

So normally when you slide off a ledge while grabbing someone, you both grab break and fall over the ledge.

If you use Squall before being grabbed, when the opponent gets forced over the ledge Zelda turns the tables and does an aerial grab release on them, while she remains onstage:

Considering you can do Squall OoS, this could be a really interesting option when you expect to be shieldgrabbed.

 

[SBphiloz4]

Spoiler

It's weird posting a non-serious post when our metagame is actually developing for once. :'D

 

[「 Derk 」]

I vote we rename Farore's Squall to Slip n' Slide. Zelda is going to be so hard to get a hold of with this move around haha.

 

[Lavani]

Spoiler

It's weird posting a non-serious post when our metagame is actually developing for once. :'D

Spoiler

With Squall around, we've gone from sucking to blowing!

 

[Fernosaur]

It will require super quick reflexes, and some of this might actually be kinda hard to pull off online, but with enough practice it might be as essential to her custom meta as regular Wind is.

Spoiler

With Squall around, we've gone from sucking to blowing!

Hahaha Zelda achieves what is physically impossible. Sucking and blowing at the same time!

 

[Macchiato]

Nayrus Rejection is so interesting. After yew do it they might be in a middle of an attack allowing yew to fsmash or grab, or they could roll letting yew punish. Rejection is pretty good. Love is better in damage, speed, and range, but with Rejection yew can punish, follow up, and gimp. The beginning intangibility allows some approaches possible. This could be the solution to Zeldas approaching problems?

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

Nayrus Rejection
solution to Zeldas approaching problems?

Zelda's approaching problems

Zelda approaching

Girl, we'd need a miracle for Zelda to get an approach option, and I'm fairly certain a move that is inferior to the default in every way is not the answer. I'd love to be proven wrong though.

 

[Lil Puddin]

So normally when you slide off a ledge while grabbing someone, you both grab break and fall over the ledge.

If you use Squall before being grabbed, when the opponent gets forced over the ledge Zelda turns the tables and does an aerial grab release on them, while she remains onstage:

Considering you can do Squall OoS, this could be a really interesting option when you expect to be shieldgrabbed.

I never knew Squall could be so useful. It makes her keep away game even better without the need of her dedication-required laggy projectiles.

I like Nayru's Passion. I think I just like bad things .

IMO it's not bad. Just very different from her standard Naryu usage. It's like the opposite of Naryu's Love. It at least has it's uses, even if it gives up one of Zelda's more useful tool(s) to use it. She still has plenty of other tools at least. If we want to talk about bad... Let's just look at any of her Phantom options.

Phantom Slash? Can't be stored. Takes a while to charge. Has the most delay of all "projectiles" in the game and can be reflected back at you to easily kill you at 60%-80%. Oh, did I mention it is guaranteed to hit you after being reflected because of the horrible end delay? Only useful for edge guarding, but you also have to space yourself properly to get the most out of it. Fully charged or bust.

Phantom Breaker? Useless and can't be stored. If people know it's coming they're going to dodge or just take the hit since it's not hurtful and it's KB is sad. You can probably trick someone ONCE with it. It's more useful as a wall since you can fling it out at the maximum distance without charging. Misses point blank. Since it has to fully travel first to attack, the person can just roll or duck.

Phantom Strike? More like Phantom WhyEvenUseIt and can't be stored. It's probably the most useful edge guarding one since you don't have to distance yourself properly to get the most out of it. It's practically useless every other way because the sad range and also the equally sad delay. It still misses point blank too.

Girl, we'd need a miracle for Zelda to get an approach option, and I'm fairly certain a move that is inferior to the default in every way is not the answer. I'd love to be proven wrong though.

Inorite? She has OK approaches if your opponent is preoccupied or delayed somehow. But that goes for everyone who's not the superhero Molasses Man/Woman (Robin). Naryu's Rejection is a safer option when compared to Naryu's Love. Naryu's Love can be shielded and then you can be punished. It can be avoided, and again, punished. The ending hitbox of Naryu's Rejection adds a bumper to Zelda's personal space via windbox. Similar to Pit's Guardian Orbitars size wise, while pushing like a whiffed Palutena smash attack. (side note: I'm not too sure about this, but I feel as if an aerial-landing Naryu-anything can be quickly followed up with another Naryu or attack from the feel of it in online).

So against melee oriented characters, especially fast ones who are bad with timing, Naryu's Rejection can be used to get a free grab or just ruin their day. It should be noted that grabbing is Zelda's best go to option; having something that lets her essentially get a free grab is very useful. A fresh dash attack can also kill around 120%-150%, so there's that too. So TLDR Rejection isn't inferior as a panic button, but it is inferior as a damaging/keep away option since it's made for follow ups. Not keep away or approaches.

 

[Fernosaur]

Shields > Rejection.

No approaches for Zeldie

 

[Twili]

Aaand just as cats are fun to live with, they're also a pain. Namely when they're chasing each other around the house (what I like to call stampeding) and they end up running into my room, jumping onto my bed, and consequently onto my laptop. They did something to this page's layout, but I fixed it by reloading the tab. Cats.

 

[Macchiato]

I'd love to be proven wrong though.

The inval frames in the beginning will help her avoid moves and also hit them and flip them. If they're hit it lets yew up to grab or start a combo. Yew can also mix it up with a grab if they start catching on and shielding

 

[「 Derk 」]

I like Nayru's Passion simply because you can jump towards someone to bait an attack then B-reverse it to suck them into your explosion. It continues to draw in anyone hit with the wind boxes when you B-reverse which can extend the range a little. You can also do a short hop air dodge to get behind them and sling shot them for kills. Passion is my Favorite Nayru's custom but Love is just so good.

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

The inval frames in the beginning will help her avoid moves and also hit them and flip them. If they're hit it opens yew up to grab or start a combo. Yew can also mix it up with a grab if they start catching on and shielding

Doesn't Love have intangibility as well tho? Maybe we should look further into what you're saying about it comboing into grabs or combos, that could be useful if it's guranteed, or at least close to it.
and omg, the sass in that gif is overwhelming

 

[Macchiato]

Doesn't Love have intangibility as well tho? Maybe we should look further into what you're saying about it comboing into grabs or combos, that could be useful if it's guranteed, or at least close to it.
and omg, the sass in that gif is overwhelming

Yes but rejection has it in the beginning, its safe so when yew run in and dew it. The move might not hit and that could lead to a grab or dtilt combo opening. Idk someone could test it. Like if Marth is charging Usmash, if yew run in with Love, you'll get hit. But not if yew run in with rejection

 

[Digital Hazard]

Hello, I heard this is the second most chaotic place in the entire site, so I'm just here to watch.

 

[BJN39]

I couldn't seem to get an image like a grenade or salt shaker to look good on the pic, so I instead opted for the sexy moody look off to the side pic instead! :D Thanks @ Nammy12 !

 

[Macchiato]

Someone should test Rejection as an approach.