Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

[Trieste SP]

Wii Fit is still mostly the same ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffabulous I can go to sleep without having to do as much testing.

Yup, I was hoping for hitbox fixes/improvents but whatever.

 

[KlicKlac]

This is really the best day ever. Zelda got buffed and the top tiers got nerfed.

 

[Lord Renning]

https://twitter.com/SilentDo0m/status/709965378869456897

This blew my mind.

It's low tier day.

 

[Furret]

Jk, but yeah, I guess that's cool, though less lag on the lagning kicks might be asking for too much

i just want sour spot safe on hit

Oh they killed off 's up air spam combo.
Yay even though I'm almost certain that I've never battled a MK main.

ya saw that, not really sure why they did it

 

[SBphiloz4]

the reason why sakurai suddenly gave us patch 1.1.5 was so he can delete all of our replays destroying kids on furglury with zelda aka the worst character in the game

this is his way to say to everyone about BAN•ZELDA

 

[Rizen]

A patch? I'm still half asleep aren't I?
Kofu sorry I missed you. I'm trying to give my hands a break atm anyway.

 

[Kofu]

A patch? I'm still half asleep aren't I?
Kofu sorry I missed you. I'm trying to give my hands a break atm anyway.

Okay, no worries. We'll play another time.

 

[Virtue]

Well, I think we got the worst change ever: lower run speed for Corrin. Was that even necessary?

 

[ぱみゅ]

The actual worst change ever was nerfing Lucina.

 

[Mocha]

Well, I think we got the worst change ever: lower run speed for Corrin. Was that even necessary?

I can understand the counter nerf (though I'm neutral about it tbh), but all the other changes were totally unnecessary, especially the speed nerf.

 

[VPTurnip]

Hey Zelda mains and whatnot.
I used to main Zelda/Sheik (together, yes, I used to transform midmatch lol I was so silly back then) in Melee and recently I've been messing around with Zelda again in Smash 4. She feels so different from my Zelda, but I've been getting the hang of her more and have been considering using her a lot more. Then she gets buffed. So I'm really feeling Zelda right now, I'll definitely be in and out of here starting now. So yeah long intro/blah blah blah hi nice to meet you.

 

[Kofu]

I got someone to call my Game & Watch a spammer on FG. I feel so accomplished. I mean, in retrospect, I'm not entirely sure what they're referring to. Possibly my use of USmash in neutral, copious use of dash attack as a punish, or my repeated use of BAir to edgeguard. Hey, I'm sorry that you kept running into my attacks.

Well, I think we got the worst change ever: lower run speed for Corrin. Was that even necessary?

I don't really like Corrin. I'd much rather have another character as part of the final DLC than another Fire Emblem protagonist (FE is tied with Pokémon for the second most number of reps, and all of them use swords. Not to mention three of them basically have the same moveset). But I think release Corrin was probably at an optimal power level for this game. Strong design with powerful options but clear weaknesses too. I'd the main things I'd nerf are Counter Surge's knockback and maybe take off a smidge of range on FAir, NAir, and UAir (I swear there's some invisible disjoint at the end of Corrin's sword). But overall I liked the character's design and power level, and would rather have other characters buffed to roughly that level rather than nerfing Corrin (however slightly).

Instead Sheik got nerfed again, ZSS got the combined Diddy/Falcon nerf treatment (while Flip Jump remains untouched), and Meta Knight lost one of his greatest strengths. Cloud also got slap-on-ths-wrist nerfs that really won't impact his gameplay (Finishing Touch nerf is kind of big but Limit Cross Slash is dumber anyway).

And Link got more KO power, just what he needed.

 

[Lord Renning]

Hitbox change specifics

• Uair
  • damage 15-17%
  • Hitbox size 7->8
  • KBG 80->74
• Nair
  • multi hit damage front hit box 2->2.5%
  • multi hit damage back hit box 1->1.5%
  • Final hit damage 3->5%
  • Final hit KBG front hit box 160->130
  • Final hit KBG back hit box 140->110
• Ftilt
  • Hitbox active frame 12->8.8 which rounds to 9
  • some change the z axis for the hit box
• Jab
  • Multi hit damage 2.5->3%
  • Final hit Damage 3->5%
  • Final hit BKB 35->40
  • Final hit KBG 130->95

Secondly there is a change to some parameters in her grab

 

[Furret]

Hitbox change specifics

• Uair
  • damage 15-17%
  • Hitbox size 7->8
  • KBG 80->74
• Nair
  • multi hit damage front hit box 2->2.5%
  • multi hit damage back hit box 1->1.5%
  • Final hit damage 3->5%
  • Final hit KBG front hit box 160->130
  • Final hit KBG back hit box 140->110
• Ftilt
  • Hitbox active frame 12->8.8 which rounds to 9
  • some change the z axis for the hit box
• Jab
  • Multi hit damage 2.5->3%
  • Final hit Damage 3->5%
  • Final hit BKB 35->40
  • Final hit KBG 130->95

Secondly there is a change to some parameters in her grab

hey these look like my notes, neat. I should mention the change in grab is confirmed and is an increase in grab range
also Ftilt FAF should be 3 frames sooner as well, just don't ask me about Z axis change

 

[Lord Renning]

Oh yeah, credit goes to Ferret. I'm bad at quoting.

 

[KarmaCastle]

I'm crying.

I noticed my grabs seemed to always be pivot lengths against a mario which I saved the replay in. Glad I wasn't imagining things.

Have we confirmed the move speed buff for certain? Since literally every patch the thread explodes with "ZELDA GOT A RUN SPEED BUFF" followed by "WHOOPS GROUP PLACEBO."

Ftilt feels glorious. I've been able to combo it out of sweet spot dair pre-knock up%'s, and jab safely.

Nair should be easy to double combo (Hello free 0-30% combos) with the KBG stuff changed.

Uair is easier to trap and bait air dodges with. More reliable to SHFF with, sexy size increase.

Hoping for a few more buffs to be found when I wake up.

 

[Sinister Slush]

For some reason I thought Smashboards threw the banhammer at ffamran after his post he made in the tier list thread.
Also there's some placebo going around for Yoshi with dthrow, I'd check it myself but can't cause hoping I can grab a replay from a friend before either of us updates our wii u, if it's even possible.

 

[KlicKlac]

I'm crying.

I noticed my grabs seemed to always be pivot lengths against a mario which I saved the replay in. Glad I wasn't imagining things.

Have we confirmed the move speed buff for certain? Since literally every patch the thread explodes with "ZELDA GOT A RUN SPEED BUFF" followed by "WHOOPS GROUP PLACEBO."

Ftilt feels glorious. I've been able to combo it out of sweet spot dair pre-knock up%'s, and jab safely.

Nair should be easy to double combo (Hello free 0-30% combos) with the KBG stuff changed.

Uair is easier to trap and bait air dodges with. More reliable to SHFF with, sexy size increase.

Hoping for a few more buffs to be found when I wake up.

I feel you, bro. I've already been baiting on airdodges and hitting with upair a lot more. And the faster ftilt allows me to better roll behind someone and quickly ftilt then a lot more reliably. I'm really trying to use ftilt as much as possible now. Zelda's data was dumped and it seems the speed increase was placebo.

 

[KarmaCastle]

I feel you, bro. I've already been baiting on airdodges and hitting with upair a lot more. And the faster ftilt allows me to better roll behind someone and quickly ftilt then a lot more reliably. I'm really trying to use ftilt as much as possible now. Zelda's data was dumped and it seems the speed increase was placebo.

Now if only someone could explain this Z 'placement' nonsense...

(I originally assumed it was a blindspot fix but I still very clearly blindspot against ZSS/SHEIK and even hit the blindspot against the same mario I was grabbing in a FG match)

 

[ぱみゅ]

I'ts fascinating how the amount of placebo this time around isn't nearly as big as any of the other 14 updates.

 

[KarmaCastle]

Also to people worried about jab>grab follow ups, the range increase on our grabs actually make it waaaay easier than before.

 

[Trieste SP]

The actual worst change ever was nerfing Lucina.

Yup, that was stupid.

Hitbox change specifics

• Uair
  • damage 15-17%
  • Hitbox size 7->8
  • KBG 80->74
• Nair
  • multi hit damage front hit box 2->2.5%
  • multi hit damage back hit box 1->1.5%
  • Final hit damage 3->5%
  • Final hit KBG front hit box 160->130
  • Final hit KBG back hit box 140->110
• Ftilt
  • Hitbox active frame 12->8.8 which rounds to 9
  • some change the z axis for the hit box
• Jab
  • Multi hit damage 2.5->3%
  • Final hit Damage 3->5%
  • Final hit BKB 35->40
  • Final hit KBG 130->95

Secondly there is a change to some parameters in her grab

Done with my labbing. This seems to be accurate so far. Overall, I appreciate the buffs but Zeldas very design is still flawed. She's not going to rise very much in the tier list. Still fun to play as, tho.

Hey Zelda mains and whatnot.
I used to main Zelda/Sheik (together, yes, I used to transform midmatch lol I was so silly back then) in Melee and recently I've been messing around with Zelda again in Smash 4. She feels so different from my Zelda, but I've been getting the hang of her more and have been considering using her a lot more. Then she gets buffed. So I'm really feeling Zelda right now, I'll definitely be in and out of here starting now. So yeah long intro/blah blah blah hi nice to meet you.

Welcome to the Zelda Social sis.

 

[Furret]

Someone tell me a bed time story to help me fall asleep

Oh yeah, credit goes to Ferret. I'm bad at quoting.

no I was more just adding to what was known at that point, but really FURRET
F U R R E T
EVERYONE'S FAVORITE FUR FRIEND

I'ts fascinating how the amount of placebo this time around isn't nearly as big as any of the other 14 updates.

prob cause of how it came out of no where or how quickly the data dumps were compiled
huge props to @Sammi Husky for the diffs

Have we confirmed the move speed buff for certain? Since literally every patch the thread explodes with "ZELDA GOT A RUN SPEED BUFF" followed by "WHOOPS GROUP PLACEBO."

no, dumps showed no changes in the character's movement

Now if only someone could explain this Z 'placement' nonsense...

it adjusts the hitbox placement similar to x or y axis. It's just hard to explain cause it adjusts where it is placed on the character

overall what you should read it as, Z axis change -> hitbox location adjusted, could be better or worse

I feel you, bro. I've already been baiting on airdodges and hitting with upair a lot more. And the faster ftilt allows me to better roll behind someone and quickly ftilt then a lot more reliably. I'm really trying to use ftilt as much as possible now. Zelda's data was dumped and it seems the speed increase was placebo.

ftilt's still hella unsafe on shield, they could buff the move more and I'd still hate it

 

[Lord Renning]

I'ts fascinating how the amount of placebo this time around isn't nearly as big as any of the other 14 updates.

There's an unexpected correlation between placebo and the existence of buffs.

 

[Rizen]

Someone tell me a bed time story to help me fall asleep

Once upon a time there was an ugly duckling. He was so ugly everybody died. The end.

 

[Berserker.]

the corrin nerfs were pretty poopy but they weren't THAT bad. f-air and n-air were buffed but other than that, corrin overall was slightly nerfed, but **** yeah, she was nerfed nonetheless. nothing that cripples her hard but it still makes me scratch my head

I like how all of you are so oblivious to the actual elephant in the room. With the top tiers like Sheik and ZSS getting nerfed, Rosa and Bayonigga's gonna rule the game. Okay, let's pause for a moment. Did I say Rosalina? Yeah, I did. What will this do? It will empower that certain cult that you guys probably know what I'm referring to :^)

 

[Lord Renning]

Someone should test Zelda's up throw to up air at around 80-90%. Unlike with down throw, there's relatively little you can do to DI in either direction, and it feels so much better with the bigger hitbox I'm wondering if it's true or just close to it.

 

[wedl!!]

Cloud no longer has a bad matchup

 

[TTTTTsd]

Cloud no longer has a bad matchup

Yup. Cloud got a little slap on the wrist and, well, that's it. Meanwhile Sheik got nerfed pretty hard being his worst MU and all. Heh.

 

[Antonykun]

*

the corrin nerfs were pretty poopy but they weren't THAT bad. f-air and n-air were buffed but other than that, corrin overall was slightly nerfed, but **** yeah, she was nerfed nonetheless. nothing that cripples her hard but it still makes me scratch my head

I like how all of you are so oblivious to the actual elephant in the room. With the top tiers like Sheik and ZSS getting nerfed, Rosa and Bayonigga's gonna rule the game. Okay, let's pause for a moment. Did I say Rosalina? Yeah, I did. What will this do? It will empower that certain cult that you guys probably know what I'm referring to :^)

The cult of bayonetta

 

[Rizen]

Bayo got nerfs too. I think people are underestimating Cloud's nerfs. He's still a top tier but characters under him have considerably better MUs vs him now. Limit taking 1.5 seconds longer to charge means his recovery is more often bad and his kill moves were toned down too.

 

[FullMoon]

These Greninja buffs oh my goodness

F-Air is just silly now, it combos into itself and is like -4 on shield now? God.

And they buffed Zelda for good measure, this surprise patch was really good.

 

[Berserker.]

These Greninja buffs oh my goodness

F-Air is just silly now, it combos into itself and is like -4 on shield now? God.

And they buffed Zelda for good measure, this surprise patch was really good.

you paid 5.99 and stuck with greninja as a main while relegating bayonetta as a secondary?

dem. threw that 5.99 away like nothin'

JUST KIDDING THO

 

[Jaguar360]

What if Sheik and Zelda's positions on the tier list still mirror each other after this lol

Like if Sheik becomes 4th best and Zelda becomes 4th worst

And these Greninja buffs are looking criiiisp! Everything I've ever wanted in a patch!

 

[Chez G.]

Hey Zelda mains and whatnot.
I used to main Zelda/Sheik (together, yes, I used to transform midmatch lol I was so silly back then) in Melee and recently I've been messing around with Zelda again in Smash 4. She feels so different from my Zelda, but I've been getting the hang of her more and have been considering using her a lot more. Then she gets buffed. So I'm really feeling Zelda right now, I'll definitely be in and out of here starting now. So yeah long intro/blah blah blah hi nice to meet you.

In all seriousness, I'm sure you'll enjoy it here.

 

[Macchiato]

confirmed


Nayru's Love Intangible 5-12F -> 5-15F

 

[Chez G.]

I bet that Din's Failure still isn't fixed

 

[SBphiloz4]

AYYYYYY LMAOOO

BLESS SAKURAI AND HIS BUFFTS

 

[Rizen]

AYYYYYY LMAOOO

BLESS SAKURAI AND HIS BUFFTS

...except diddy can actually approach

 

[BJN39]

My notes on ha buffs

JAB
loop hitbox damage 2.5 → 3.0
final hitbox damage 3.0 → 5.0
bkb 35 → 40
kbg 130 → 95

FTILT
Frame speed modifier frames 0-10 x1.0 → x0.8
hitframe 12 → 11
tipper hitbox Z-axis 3.0 → 3.5 (range buff)

DSMASH
FAF 41 → 37

NAIR
loop hit damage 2\1 → 2.5\1.5
final hitbox damage 3 → 5
final hit kbg 160\140 → 130\110

UAir
damage 15 → 17
kbg 90 → 84
size 7.0 → 8.0

STANDING GRAB
X2-axis 10.5 → 11.5

DASH GRAB
X2-axis 13.5 → 14.5

PIVOT GRAB
X2-axis -15.7 → -16.7

NAYRU
intangibility 5-12 → 5-15

Let me explain some of it:

Jab should have a lot more hit stun with more damage/BKB, KBG is way lower. I can't speak for its combo ability atm, I'd assume it's relatively similar, but more KB at lower percents. Could be hurt a tad. Edit: it's also potentially safer on block now lel.

Ftilt as said hits frame 9 now. FAF should be 38 now because of how the change was handled. No actual endlag buffs. The "Zaxis change" was a small range INCREASE lol.

Dsmash has lower endlag AND I CALLED THE EXACT NUMBER

NAir should have more hitstun with all that new damage. KBG reduction was helpful in not making it knock away far too soon. FYI the 130/110 is 130 (Hand hitboxes) 110 (body hitboxes) not front/back. In practice you will really only hit with the 130 KBG hitboxes.

UAir I wanna try to KO percent numbers vs my old ones. Technically more damage mean more KB (Thus the KBG NERF) but 6 KBG shouldn't bring it down all the way back to its old KB... We pretty much Brawl size hitbox now~

Grabs A WHOLE UNIT RANGE INCREASE. Hallelujah. I mean, still has sinful endlag, but a buff that isn't entirely useless!

Nayru's intangibility now covers the first hit, meaning if you get the intangibility out, it can legitimately stuff an attack now! Whaaaaaaaaat?

This is all I was picking up so far from everywhere. IDK if someone already tested all ha FAFs.