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Your worst matchups?
- Thread starter greatbernard
- Start date
toadster101
Banned via Warnings
It's amazing how Sakurai thinks that Final Destination is balanced just because it's a flat stage, even though it clearly favors characters who have access to projectiles. I just battled one of the most annoying Links I've seen in my entire life. He literally spent the entire match shield rolling away from me and spamming his arrows. The timer expired and he beat me in the sudden death because the arrows had enough knockback to send my flying off at 300%. Ridiculous.
I find flat stages to be best for D3 vs projectile spam characters, at least on the 3DS, because you've got more options in that you can freely jump over em without platforms getting in the way of your Aerials.
Sounds like you should really improve your Shielding, toaster101. Link is a pretty even match up (I've yet to play one that effectively Bomb Canceled, though). Just Power Shield to get in, Spot dodge his Grab on occasion, and damage with pokes and Grabs until you knock him offstage.
Lastly, lol at DewDaDash thinking Dedede has a bad MU vs Little Mac. It's favorable, even on FD. If you lose it you got outplayed hard. Simple as that - D3 can easily throw Mac offstage, he has 5 jumps and Inhale for gimping, and completely out ranges him with his Forward Tilt.
Sounds like you should really improve your Shielding, toaster101. Link is a pretty even match up (I've yet to play one that effectively Bomb Canceled, though). Just Power Shield to get in, Spot dodge his Grab on occasion, and damage with pokes and Grabs until you knock him offstage.
Lastly, lol at DewDaDash thinking Dedede has a bad MU vs Little Mac. It's favorable, even on FD. If you lose it you got outplayed hard. Simple as that - D3 can easily throw Mac offstage, he has 5 jumps and Inhale for gimping, and completely out ranges him with his Forward Tilt.
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toadster101
Banned via Warnings
Yeah, I better improve my shield against a player that spends the entire match running away. That complaint was directed more towards the forced timer than Link as a character.
I don't understand this idea of gimping Mac. Does it come from facing awful ones who don't know what air dodge/counter do? If we're talking about killing him at moderately high percents, I can see it, but that's a weakness almost every character has.
Any decent little mac WILL make it back to the stage at low percents, because his evasive options can be done easily on reaction and by the time he's vulnerable again, he's already made it back.
Then you have to deal with his BS ground game that can punish anything with huge run speed and wins most "I attack, he attacks" with speed and super armor. Not to mention his roll beats almost anything DDD can do.
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No, I don't play awful ones, because I don't play For Glory. I play decent, at worst, Little Macs. You simply approach Little Mac with F Tilts, Jabs to Grabs if he closes in on you to throw him off the stage, and I use a lot of Aerial approaches. A spaced Bair is relatively safe and you can mix in Inhales if he's Shielding to fire him towards or off the ledge. Little Mac runs around a lot so you you're going to be using plenty of pivot F Tilts and Grabs, too. When you've got him off stage he only has like 2 or 3 options. Most Macs jump right away and you get an easy Fair off to make sure they don't come back. Option 2: They use Counter or Air Dodge Option 3: They wait and fall to Up B or Wall Jump back - You can wait yourself to beat anything else they do and using Inhale then is a guaranteed kill.
And you're saying Mac's Roll beats anything D3 can do like it's some sort of attack. It isn't. It just gets them from one place to another, you just have to beat whatever they do from that position. Yeah it 's fast and hard to react to, but if you're constantly Pivot F Tilting they'll prolly be Rolling right into that and should eventually give up. Or you can just let them and when they get to higher %s they'll end up Rolling right to their deaths off your random Down Smash.
And you're saying Mac's Roll beats anything D3 can do like it's some sort of attack. It isn't. It just gets them from one place to another, you just have to beat whatever they do from that position. Yeah it 's fast and hard to react to, but if you're constantly Pivot F Tilting they'll prolly be Rolling right into that and should eventually give up. Or you can just let them and when they get to higher %s they'll end up Rolling right to their deaths off your random Down Smash.
Come on man, you can't say you play decent people and then claim that "most little macs jump right away". That's a giant sign that your opponent isn't that good.
Most players, even good ones, will jump right away. That's a very common first response, no matter the character. They switch it up after you punish them for it.
I don't know about you, but the Macs I play are around 1500 on the AiB ladder, which is not that bad at all. zzz
dean.
.
only character i've lost to in tournament is villager. so... villager i guess. have played a few different ones now and the keep away game is so good, especially in customs environment because counter timber is such a good move.
Burruni
Smash Hero
Legitimately, King Dedede is one of my fall-back characters but nonetheless I find myself struggling against proper 
players.
I feel like I don't have a proper way of working around the immense zoning of the projectiles, when the Gordo (which normally clashes or breaks weaker projectiles) is so easy to counter.
players.I feel like I don't have a proper way of working around the immense zoning of the projectiles, when the Gordo (which normally clashes or breaks weaker projectiles) is so easy to counter.
It never really clashes, however.
The gordo either straight up beats the projectile (scarce situations where a projectile deals 2% damage or less) or gets reflected. I mean, it does break the enemy's projectile in either case, but on the latter, it's never in your favor.
The catch with Duck Hunt is that his projectiles do not really allow him to camp effectively. Projectiles are either too slow, have little reach or have predictable trajectories. The can is also effectively usable against him. He's one of the easier "zoning" characters to approach, I feel. But indeed, Gordo Throw isn't an advisable move to use too often in this matchup, do the his many different answers to it.
Burruni
Smash Hero
Sorry, it's been a bit since I've used DDD. The thing is I've just normally handled most projectiles with the Gordo because it beats out most projectiles I come across and allows me to run up through it, just to beat out my opponent.
I've never quite understood about how to use the can back against DHD, only that it hurts him too.
That's what I'd like to know. Exact timing could be really helpful. And how it works, too. I swear I've tossed em back somehow with 'A', without a Jab.
The game glitches frequently when you try to reflect it back and you lose the ability to throw gordos until you die.
When you're aiming to re-reflect gordos, you can either catch them like an item or you can have a hit box out that will reflect it. I personally only use gordos if I feel certain that I know what my opponent's response is going to be so that they won't reflect it, or far enough away that I can re-reflect it, which more often than not requires stage control.
Lavani
Indigo Destiny
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2014
- Messages
- 7,256
One of my favorite things to do against reflect-happy opponents is to bait a reflect out of them with the medium/slow gordos and sh bair or utilt it back. Most don't react to it, the ones that do are probably doing it from a distance where I can re-re-re-reflect it again...or I'd like to, but at this point I usually end up either being forced to airdodge through it, or grabbing it and throwing it at a normal speed again.
Making Ganondorf a pure melee fighter, yet giving us a Dead Man's Volley projectile...truly Sakurai desires Dedede to cameo as a future Legend of Zelda boss.
Trioxin
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2014
- Messages
- 12
Oddly, I don't struggle with Yoshi. If they're good with their eggs, I have a harder time getting in, but most of the ones I've encountered have approached carelessly and are easy to punish. Good Little Mac players are difficult. Rosalina, Sheik, Zero Suit are hard matches. Honestly, most others are pretty even or in my favor I feel.
Exceladon City
Smash Hero
Wii Fit Trainer, I feel is a hard match-up for Deedles. Their ability to zone on two horizontal planes with suns and at awkward angles with volleyballs, make it REALLY difficult for Dedede to approach.
I feel her lack of good range heavily plays in our favor.
Everything, from her jabs to her smashes have janky and small hitboxes, and outside of aerial air dodge, her approach options aren't that great.
She has better projectiles than we do (like 95% of the cast), forcing us pretty much to approach, but I don't see it as being hard to accomplish.
She's surprisingly good off-stage, however.
Noga
Smash Rookie
My worst matchup by far is Diddy - if he hits me with the banana, I can't do anything.
Samus, Greninja and Zelda.
I didn't have too much trouble with Rosalina though, and I have played a good amount of players that used her.
Perhaps those players had little to no practice with her.
Samus, Greninja and Zelda.
I didn't have too much trouble with Rosalina though, and I have played a good amount of players that used her.
Perhaps those players had little to no practice with her.
Exceladon City
Smash Hero
WFT is a reactionary character imo. WFT doesn't have to commit to any of the projectiles or the deep breathing, things that force us to react first. We have decent normals, but WFT has some damn good priority on their normals and honestly, I truly think the frame data for WFT works more in their favor than D3 in terms of normals. The fact that they have the ability to safely pick away at D3 with those projectiles makes it hard to see him doing anything remotely threatening without being at a deficit first.
What do you mean exactly by "priority"? Because in actual Smash terms, we win the priority game by having actual disjoints AND moves with transcendent priority.
If by priority, you mean frame data, then yes, I can easily believe she has a faster kit than we do. However, she lacks the tools to properly space herself, has very poor shield pressure (except for that janky backwards fair hitbox I guess), and generally has very little answers when provoked at midrange, a zone we generally thrive in.
Also, we're always at a "deficit" so to speak in neutral, as we have no neutral game, for that matter. In a couple cases, that doesn't make the MU in the opponent's favor, however.
I honestly have not enough experience in the MU to make a solid statement, but I'd be surprised if it was one of our harder MUs.
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I'd like to have you guys input on the Peach MU.
I always feel like I have no idea what is the best option at any given moment.
On the ground is terrible; she can basically space floating dairs above us, not having really good options to cover it, although properly timed UTilts sometimes work.
On the air is also iffy, but seems to be our best option, using spaced fairs/bairs/inhale. Throwing gordos at her while she's airborne is actually decent; it's much harder for her to deal with them in that position.
She has the potential of killing us early, and she's basically immune to edgeguards.
I try to center my gameplan around punishing her unavoidable landings.
Haven't played the MU since 1.0.4. I'll assume that the removal of Turnip Cancelling heavi
I always feel like I have no idea what is the best option at any given moment.
On the ground is terrible; she can basically space floating dairs above us, not having really good options to cover it, although properly timed UTilts sometimes work.
On the air is also iffy, but seems to be our best option, using spaced fairs/bairs/inhale. Throwing gordos at her while she's airborne is actually decent; it's much harder for her to deal with them in that position.
She has the potential of killing us early, and she's basically immune to edgeguards.
I try to center my gameplan around punishing her unavoidable landings.
Haven't played the MU since 1.0.4. I'll assume that the removal of Turnip Cancelling heavi
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ccthirteen
Smash Apprentice
i actually discovered my proficiency with Dedede last night. I was a ZSS player up until I realized it wasn't my playstyle. Finally happened upon Dedede while in a sequence of friendlies with a friend of mine who is a very good player. Usually he beats me but I consistently defeated his Link, RosaLuma, Fox, Shiek, Bowser and Samus.
I do have another friend who won the tournament I hosted at my place on Friday. Won it with Mr. G&W. I'd like to know what some of the D3's here think of the G&W MU.
I'd say the one that gave me the most trouble so far has been Link, though.
I do have another friend who won the tournament I hosted at my place on Friday. Won it with Mr. G&W. I'd like to know what some of the D3's here think of the G&W MU.
I'd say the one that gave me the most trouble so far has been Link, though.
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GDubs never give me much trouble, if at all.
They need to space their fairs and bairs perfectly...and that's pretty much it.
They lack any kind of decent combo on us, have weak kill options and any single mistake will kill them. Our bair probably kills them at 70ish% at the edge of a stage.
It's pretty much all about respecting his good aerials. Play it slowly, he can't force any kind of approach from you.
They need to space their fairs and bairs perfectly...and that's pretty much it.
They lack any kind of decent combo on us, have weak kill options and any single mistake will kill them. Our bair probably kills them at 70ish% at the edge of a stage.
It's pretty much all about respecting his good aerials. Play it slowly, he can't force any kind of approach from you.
Nick Fury
Smash Rookie
As a new D3 main on smash 4 on Wii U, I haven't had very many bad matchups other than villager and for some weird reason, i always have troubles with marth no matter who I play.
I've been having a lot of trouble with Megaman. His projectile game isn't actually too painful for me. It's entirely his back air slash move. I played a few FG matches and he managed to kill me with that move 6 times between 90 and 120 percent from the edge. It comes out so fast and hits so hard that I have no idea how to get around it. Is there something I'm missing that would allow me to not fly out the arena when hit by it? It just bums me out getting a guy like Megaman to high percent only to be slashed off the edge at marginal percent given the fatty Dedede is. Any tips against this would be appreciated.
toadster101
Banned via Warnings
How are you supposed to beat good Link users? Honestly. The matchup is so one sided that I just want to quit whenever I encounter one. Zero Suit and Samus no longer give me any issues at all, fortunately.
Link is a tricky one, because his aerials, tilts and jabs have hitboxes that you you need to get used to.
Jab and Nair will hit you if you're right behind Link for instance. He's also filled with a lot of potent kill moves, notably FTilts, that hits abnormally hard and is really fast.
It's pretty much about using items against him, Links need to spam them to establish proper zoning / stage control, so it's bound to happen that a bomb bounces against your shield that you can regrab / boomerang that is carelessly thrown that you can use to get in his zone.
Once off-stage, I feel that Link is one of the easiest characters to edgeguard, thanks to his sub-par recovery.
Play patient, and know you'll be playing at a % deficit. Doesn't matter, a good throw off-stage and a few Fairs make short work of him.
Megaman doesn't have any setups to land his bair, more often than not, he'll use it as an edgeguard. Otherwise he did it out of a read. Probably you expose yourself too easily to it. It's a good move, but not that difficult to play around.
Jab and Nair will hit you if you're right behind Link for instance. He's also filled with a lot of potent kill moves, notably FTilts, that hits abnormally hard and is really fast.
It's pretty much about using items against him, Links need to spam them to establish proper zoning / stage control, so it's bound to happen that a bomb bounces against your shield that you can regrab / boomerang that is carelessly thrown that you can use to get in his zone.
Once off-stage, I feel that Link is one of the easiest characters to edgeguard, thanks to his sub-par recovery.
Play patient, and know you'll be playing at a % deficit. Doesn't matter, a good throw off-stage and a few Fairs make short work of him.
You're already half-way there; you know what to look for. There's no real stick to avoid a move other than acknowledge its existence, and make sure you don't put yourself in a situation where you have to challenge it.
Megaman doesn't have any setups to land his bair, more often than not, he'll use it as an edgeguard. Otherwise he did it out of a read. Probably you expose yourself too easily to it. It's a good move, but not that difficult to play around.
Not really. With vectoring gone, if you get hit by it at kill %, you'll die. Also, normally, playing Megaman, it's the other way around; he's the one racking up tons of damage while fishing for a kill, while all we need is a good read for a bair and we're set.
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toadster101
Banned via Warnings
Link is exceptionally easy to edgeguard, yes. The problem is luring him off the stage. "Play patient" is easier said than done when the looming timer is constantly ticking down. And like I said, I'm talking about good Link users, not randoms on For Glory. They know that projectiles are our biggest weakness, and they have no qualms about taking advantage of that.
I'd be interested in seeing a replay against a good zss. I am up yo 92% win ratio in for glory for last 100 and I will walk off the edge against Rosalina and zss.
toadster101
Banned via Warnings
Zero Suit Samus is easy to KO, so don't be discouraged if you rack up a ridiculous amount of damage. Honestly, it's probably because most people who choose her aren't very good. They just assume they'll do well because they see her near the top of the tier list. If you see a Zero Suit using her down aerial under any circumstance, then you'll probably be able to win. It's such a terrible, easily punishable move. Otherwise good luck against the stun gun spam.
Oblivion129
Smash Lord
Against Link and Rob, since they have better projectiles, I normally jump once or several times and angle the gordo to them. They'll normally shield or move. You can take advantage of that to try to zone in.
You can jump on top of Link and bait his Usmash or Utilt, and then go in with a Nair. At close but not-so-close range, Ftilt and Jab work great.
You want Link in the air, since your Uair beats his Dair.
My hardest match up was probably against a Mario, but more because of the player rather than the character. Except for the part where he can easily cape our recovery.
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That's what I was referring to, stun gun spam to grab, throw, usmash, over and over again. Even after the combo is gone the stun spam is just nuts. Of all the projectile in the game this is the one I can't Crack. It needs more lag so we can punish it.
JimmyTheCaterpillar
Smash Ace
Pikachu
Link (projectile strategy)
These two always seem to get me.
Link (projectile strategy)
These two always seem to get me.
A_male_platypus
Smash Cadet
So far as DDD, I've struggled the most against Samus, ROB, Duckhunt, Megman, Baby Bowswer, and Toonlink. A lot of projectile based characters give me a really hard time, because DDD moves through the air so slow horizontally, and most projectiles they have will send Gordo hurling back my way.
JimmyTheCaterpillar
Smash Ace
Actually, the characters I have problems with are characters with a counter move. It always gets me.
Every
single
time.
Every
single
time.