Wobbling Discussion Revisited #Evo2kprep

[Tee ay eye]

That's assuming they're not doing a move, or any of the other random things are happening that affect crouch canceling. The point is it's a landmark in most high tier character's combo tree.

so it's when pseudo-CCing/ASDI down alone stops being very useful (but still useful for ground-techs)

 

[DrkRoxas]

I believe he asked still with wobbling legal and all, what matchups they win against the characters on top of them (Top 7, I believe ICs are 8, iirc) to make a point that still, they get wrecked at a lot of matchups.

 

[Nintendude]

Yeah, it pretty much goes something like this:
Lose to Fox
Even with Falco
Beat Sheik
Even with Puff
Lose to Peach
Even with Marth
Even with Falcon

The only matchups where I think wobbling actually does make a significant difference are vs. the Mario Bros. Maybe some low tier matchups too but low tiers suck.

 

[DrkRoxas]

That's what I saw, the majority of the characters that ICs have a clear advantage of are low tiers, so even with wobbling they have a pretty tough time in the competitive scene.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong but I think they lose to Falcon too, I agree with the rest of your list tho.

 

[Armada]

How ICs MU spread is against those 7 chars when wobbling is allowed.
I do think ICs is not having such a great MU spread when it comes to those chars.

Marth/Sheik is alright (Winning against Sheik and pretty even vs Marth).
I guess Puff could be kinda even but I think Puff wins.

Spacies/Peach/Falcon wins no question asked. Im not sure how wobbling would be such a broken move when they are still losing vs so many chars. Im not saying my opinions is some kind of fact but even if someone is even CLOSE to agree with me it means ICs is not that great and then I don't understand why wobbling should be banned.

 

[Strong Badam]

the people arguing for banning wobbling are using ban criteria that, quite frankly, the community does not use and never will. here's the point that's actually relevant: neither wobbling nor ice climbers with wobbling are broken, therefore it should not be banned.

 

[KrazyKnux]

To be fair, Wobble does look like the lead singer of Rise Against.

 

[DrkRoxas]

To be fair, Wobble does look like the lead singer of Rise Against.

But only with the beard like in KoC2, so manly, best look ever.

 

[Oasys17]

How is this a thing? ,_, Why isn't this simply TO discretion? I'm talking about what constitutes as wobbling. If I'm a TO, and I say wobbling is banned, then I need to state MY definition of what wobbling is. When a player breaks that rule, at my discretion, consequences take place, etc. etc.... How is this a discussion? @_@
I DO believe the player/s should know full well what I think is a dq'able offense(or possibly forfeit of stock/round), that's a given. But what does it ACTUALLY matter what one person deems as wobbling vs another? The technique was NAMED after Wobbles. Conversely, we could just let him decide.

For the record, I'm "pro wobbling," and I think this discussion is quite silly. Also, I'm a huge proponent of the "a player can pause, kill themselves, and continue the match at their discretion" rule for wobbling. I don't want to have to sit there for x amount of seconds and do nothing. I don't think that's healthy, personally.

 

[DrkRoxas]

Stuff

You have some valid points there my man, I thinks it's a really silly subject to keep coming to this time after time.
And if anybody wants to pause I'd say is their problem, the wobble can be messed up and you always have a chance to free yourself, There's not one ICs player that has never let go of a wobble. I don't think it's a waste of time to just sit there, your just have to mash like crazy and hope the ICs player screws up, it can happen.

 

[Oasys17]

You have some valid points there my man, I thinks it's a really silly subject to keep coming to this time after time.
And if anybody wants to pause I'd say is their problem, the wobble can be messed up and you always have a chance to free yourself, There's not one ICs player that has never let go of a wobble. I don't think it's a waste of time to just sit there, your just have to mash like crazy and hope the ICs player screws up, it can happen.

Oh ofc. I added the "at their discretion" part because of that. It's totally up to you, the player, whether you wanted to do that or not. PERSONALLY, I'd do it a fair bit, if I knew the player and his capabilities, or if it's a really momentum based match. I think I'd lose a lot of steam sitting there for so long.

 

[stabbedbyanipple]

Falco hella beats ICs with or without wobbling

wobbling is still wack as **** tho

 

[Armada]

Also, I'm a huge proponent of the "a player can pause, kill themselves, and continue the match at their discretion" rule for wobbling. I don't want to have to sit there for x amount of seconds and do nothing. I don't think that's healthy, personally.

I don't think you should be allowed to pause the game during a wobbling. First of all pause should be turned of in tournament matches so more accidents doesn't happen (yes in singles too). This means it would be impossible to actually pause but that isn't the biggest reason.

A LOT of players have a problem staying in right state of mind after a wobbling. They have to sit there for some while and keep staying focused. If they can't this will affect the next stock too. To just pause and go offstage means you DON'T have to deal with what many seems to have the biggest problem with.

I really hope this pause thing NEVER will be something that people will be allowed to use in tournaments. It's your own responsibillity to be ready to handling moments like this as a competitior.

 

[Niko_K]

It comes right back down to don't get grabbed. If you're playing your spacing game properly you shouldn't be in the position of being wobbled very often.

Pause should be turned off, and no one should ever mention that it has an in game function EVER again.

A lot of people need to get their master mash back in play too and re-learn where the inputs for grab breaks are registered because you CAN break before the wobble starts if you're fast enough.

You lose your stock from a shine spike or falco dair at 20% and it can have that same impact on your state of mind...and it's your responsibility to stay sharp after you clearly put yourself in that position.

There really are only certain demographic of users on this board who are truly even viably qualified to discuss this manner and most of us should leave our personal opinions out of this conversation and let those with a deep understanding of the game and a healthy track record of tournament sets against an IC main who can effectively wobble his way through a tournament.

/whatdoiknow

 

[Oasys17]

I

I don't think you should be allowed to pause the game during a wobbling. First of all pause should be turned of in tournament matches so more accidents doesn't happen (yes in singles too). This means it would be impossible to actually pause but that isn't the biggest reason.

A LOT of players have a problem staying in right state of mind after a wobbling. They have to sit there for some while and keep staying focused. If they can't this will affect the next stock too. To just pause and go offstage means you DON'T have to deal with what many seems to have the biggest problem with.

I really hope this pause thing NEVER will be something that people will be allowed to use in tournaments. It's your own responsibillity to be ready to handling moments like this as a competitior.

Interesting you feel that way. I think it's the same, but that's actually WHY I think it should be allowed. Having to sit through that Imo is very demoralizing, especially in a close game. But, I agree that that's something you need to learn to deal with overall, not getting shaken up by nerves/feelngs in a tournament.

 

[Armada]

Yeah I can understand that it feels demoralizing to sit there while it's happening (especially with a crowd and a close game). But you learn from experience so should go better eventually =)

 

[Jockmaster]

I mean...getting wobbled is no more demoralizing than any other low % -> death combo

 

[Oasys17]

I mean...getting wobbled is no more demoralizing than any other low % -> death combo

It's all opinion, but Imo, sitting there for a long time unable to do ANYTHING (Post 40% ish) is much worse. It also kills any momentum, much more than a quick combo into a spike or something. Just my opinion, though.

 

[Bones0]

I'd rather use the time they spend wobbling to come up with a better strategy for the next stock so I'm not getting grabbed.

As far as a definition to prevent stalling with wobbling, I think this one is simple and effective.

- Wobbling: The act of an Ice Climbers player pummeling an opponent 4 or more times without throwing or releasing them.
- Wobbling is banned past 300%. If Pokemon Stadium is not on the default transformation, this percent is increased to 400%.

 

[RockinRudy]

Why are we still discussing this...​

 

[chenjesu]

I'd rather use the time they spend wobbling to come up with a better strategy for the next stock so I'm not getting grabbed.

As far as a definition to prevent stalling with wobbling, I think this one is simple and effective.

- Wobbling: The act of an Ice Climbers player pummeling an opponent 4 or more times without throwing or releasing them.
- Wobbling is banned past 300%. If Pokemon Stadium is not on the default transformation, this percent is increased to 400%.

So if I'm SoPo, the other guy is at 291%, and I grab him and pummel him 4 times, that's banned?

Also, this is a side, but I have no idea if SoPo has any reliable grab kills past 300%. Does uthrow kill?

 

[Bones0]

Touche. I will stipulate that both climbers must be alive for it to be wobbling, and I added an extra pummel just in case the player is pummeling while waiting for Nana to resynch.

- Wobbling: The act of an Ice Climbers with both climbers alive pummeling an opponent 5 or more times without throwing or releasing them.
- Wobbling is banned past 300%. If Pokemon Stadium is not on the default transformation, this percent is increased to 400%.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

man this thread was rough
nintendude and bones sure are troopers

My wobbling definition is still the best :3

 

[FlamingForce]

Touche. I will stipulate that both climbers must be alive for it to be wobbling, and I added an extra pummel just in case the player is pummeling while waiting for Nana to resynch.

- Wobbling: The act of an Ice Climbers with both climbers alive pummeling an opponent 5 or more times without throwing or releasing them.
- Wobbling is banned past 300%. If Pokemon Stadium is not on the default transformation, this percent is increased to 400%.

I can't really see how that first one should be exclusive to the IC's, I'm pretty sure other characters could get 5 pummels off at plausible %'s if the opponent doesn't attempt to mash out. (For which the pummeler would then get in trouble rofl.)

But hey, I'll just practice my blizzoble in any case, 4 pummels and 4 blizzards into d-throw > d-air sounds perfectly doable.