Why is YOUR Marth Getting Grabbed

[Dark Sonic]

but do you use both the C-stick and A or just the c-stick? i use A for the first and then di the second while using the c-stick..is taht enough to space properly? i've been cnosidering lately switching to a claw handgrip so i can c-stick both

You don't have to switch to a claw handgrip to shdf. I do it all the time with the standard hand grip. It may feel really akward to have your thumb jump past the c-stick at first, but I think it would feel even more akward to use the claw grip so I managed.

 

[Cactuar]

Can you do anything if you hit someone's shield with a fsmash and they shield-wavedash to grab you?

No. You could stop fsmashing their shield though.

 

[Emblem Lord]

lol. Cactuar be a good boy.

 

[Shai Hulud]

I play mostly ICs and CF and here's how I get grabs--

With CF I dash dance a lot, fairly close to tipper range to try to bait an fsmash, then dash in during the lag. If they don't fsmash but ftilt or something I can still punish the lag with a NAIR. I can also use BAIR to hit behind the Marth so he can't shield-grab me, and if he shields I can often dash to grab.

With ICs I try to bait attacks by waveshielding into the Marth, then wavedash => grab during lag. Don't fsmash vs. ICs unless you know it's going to hit.

Basically Marth seems to get grabbed a lot when he whiffs, because his attacks are pretty laggy, with a few exceptions.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Which is why you avoid his laggy moves.

When I play I rely almost exclusively on shuffled fairs, shuffled nairs, JC grabs, and d-tilts. I do the occasional short hop double aerial.

 

[knightpraetor]

ya my biggest problem against sheik is missed double fairs...i'm used to being able to use that move more..i tend to get tagged way too often at the end of the second fair..i mean if i space properly i shouldn't get shieldgrabbed..but even so it's easy for sheik to follow up if i miss

and sonicwave are you implying that you can double fair with the c-stick for both aerials from a normal handgrip? is that even possible? i mean i can do that going left..but going right it seems like it would take too much time unless you are using the control stick for the jump

 

[UMBC Super Smasher]

Husband taught me how to play ICs last weekend and I was able to beat an IC player in pools because of it. The matchup is pretty simple for marth - don't get grabbed by using short hopped fairs to dtilt, wavedash to dtilt. Once marth gets the ICs into the air, keep it up. If I ever got Nana separated from Popo I liked to kill it. Then just fsmash Popo as he attempts to get back onto the stage.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

How my Marth gets grabbed:


Lack of spot dodges afted Whiffed/Shielded Aerials.

I need to make a habit of that...

 

[Vall3y]

theoretically you can avoid any grabs, but its not like this.
its easy to avoid shieldgrabs with spacing, but its hard to always know whether the opponent is coming to grab or attack, where to tech, how to DI\when to CC etc

 

[Cactuar]

theoretically you can avoid any grabs, but its not like this.
its easy to avoid shieldgrabs with spacing, but its hard to always know whether the opponent is coming to grab or attack, where to tech, how to DI\when to CC etc

This post was kinda pointless...

 

[JesiahTEG]

I lost to a link last biweekly. I got shieldgrabbed about 30-40% of the time I faired. I was baiting shieldgrabs by spacing fairs, and then double jumping after i hit link's shield. I still got shieldgrabbed though, mainly because of the Hookshot's length. And getting grabbed by Link is not something Marth wants to happen. It leads to a utilt or two, then a uair or two. I was wondering...

Someone told me that instead of watching your spacing on link, because his hookshot is so long, it's better when you fair to shffl it. I wasn't shffling my fair, I was just double jumping out of it...which worked most of the time, but not all. Would it be better to shffl my fair instead of perfect spacing and double jumping out?

 

[Cactuar]

If the Link was being that obvious going for shieldgrabs, why wouldn't you just land and buffer dodge? Or jump towards him and airdodge through him instead of attacking. Or land and grab... I think that still comes out faster than his hookshot.

 

[Dark Sonic]

sonicwave are you implying that you can double fair with the c-stick for both aerials from a normal handgrip? is that even possible? i mean i can do that going left..but going right it seems like it would take too much time unless you are using the control stick for the jump

Yes that's what I'm implying and yes that is possible, it just takes a lot of practice and it feels really weird. When you use the C-stick to SHDF going right it's a much different feeling than going left. You have to move your thumb from the jump button (I use X to jump but it shouldn't be much different for Y) past the C-stick and then reel it back. I just think of it as making a zig-zag motion with my thumb.

 

[JesiahTEG]

If the Link was being that obvious going for shieldgrabs, why wouldn't you just land and buffer dodge? Or jump towards him and airdodge through him instead of attacking. Or land and grab... I think that still comes out faster than his hookshot.

Because she's good, the Link player I mean. If I empty SH'd and buffer dodge, she wouldnt shieldgrab. I would either get grabbed after my dodge, or I'd get Shra'd. If I jump towards her and airdodge through...I'd get shra'd. I need to hit her shield in order to get her to shieldgrab, or else she won't fall for it. You see what I'm saying? So is shffling my fair better than hitting with the tip of my fair and double jumping away? cuz with the double jump the hookshot is so long the that you can get shieldgrabbed unless you jump away mad fast, the timing is real tight. To give you an example it's like the timing for DI'ing sheik's dthrow backwards, and then jumping out before you get Usmashed.

 

[Deleted member]

Because she's good, the Link player I mean. If I empty SH'd and buffer dodge, she wouldnt shieldgrab.

I read this and lol'd. I'll show you how it's done in a few weeks.

 

[knightpraetor]

another question..when buffering a roll against a pillar is it possible to rollout before the shine? i mean if you powershielded...i don't think it would work otherwise..was just curious..sometimes i get a powershield and i wonder..on the other hand, probably my reaction to the powershield would be too slow to take advantage...stilll..pillaring has a rhythm so it's not as hard to powershield

 

[Emblem Lord]

Yeah, it is. You could roll after the shine too. It won't matter. As long as you use the C-stick you won't get hit out of your shield as you roll. When you tilt the analog stick to roll, your shield tilts as well exposing Marth's body for a split second before he rolls. This allows Falco to hit him and begin pillar comboing. If you use the C-stick to roll then Marth won't tilt his shield. He'll just roll out of it and you won't get hit.

 

[knightpraetor]

ya thanks EL...i wasn't really sure..it's kinda funny..i wasn't getting hit by my friend's stuff when i tried to roll but then they always seemed to be getting hit by my falco combos. I wasn't sure what to tell them because i couldn't remember when i rolled..

at first i thought most of the time i roll after the shine..but then i thought about it and thought i remembered doing it before as well...so most likely my friend's just are doing normal rolls instead of buffering with C-stick..i'll talk to them about it

 

[Cactuar]

Because she's good, the Link player I mean. If I empty SH'd and buffer dodge, she wouldnt shieldgrab. I would either get grabbed after my dodge, or I'd get Shra'd. If I jump towards her and airdodge through...I'd get shra'd. I need to hit her shield in order to get her to shieldgrab, or else she won't fall for it. You see what I'm saying? So is shffling my fair better than hitting with the tip of my fair and double jumping away? cuz with the double jump the hookshot is so long the that you can get shieldgrabbed unless you jump away mad fast, the timing is real tight. To give you an example it's like the timing for DI'ing sheik's dthrow backwards, and then jumping out before you get Usmashed.

Lol. I assume you are talking about Ruka?

She didn't play Link vs my Marth, but vs my Fox, all I did was mindlessly aggressive stuff... she's decent, but not really to the level that I would need to think or try during the matches... she will probably be pretty good given enough time though.

vs Link, it's generally pretty safe to run in and tipper dtilts on their shield in and out. If they spam projectiles, fair boomerangs, ignore bombs, evade arrows. It's not a really complicated matchup, you just need to be able to avoid projectiles while still pressuring them with things that won't leave you vulnerable.

 

[JesiahTEG]

Yeah, I only lost by 1 life, high percent...but still, that's still a loss, and she did beat me. I think it was pretty even vs me and her, but the shieldgrabs killed me. I got shieldgrabbed 25-35% of the time I attacked, because of the hookshot's range. I was just wondering...Would it be better to Shffl fairs and then spot dodge after, because spacing my fairs and double jumping only worked about 50% of the time, due to the hookshot's range.

 

[DAHKTERem]

Because I'm a Kirby player and Kirby can usually crouch after his aerials to prevent from being grabbed.

=( It doesn't work very well with Marth.

You are correct Nathan

 

[Ether]

I can't wait for Husband's next installment, "Why are you getting hit with needles, or projectiles period?"

I get grabbed when I hit their shield with the middle of my fair instead of the tip.

I get grabbed when Sheik full jump needles and grabs me, particularly when I don't shield the needles and I get hit by them. I don't know if I can move after the needles or not, and I don't think I've ever tried.

I get grabbed randomly by fast characters just darting in.

Oh, and I hate this one-- I get grabbed after being hit with a jab. I should really see this coming by now. What am I supposed to do after getting hit by the jab, or if the jab hits my shield? Theoretically, should we be shielding much at all? We can keep all attacks at bay with Marth's range, right?

 

[Emblem Lord]

Ether:

- If you hit with the middle of your fair and they shield you have enough time to roll, spot dodge, dash away or dash through them to avoid shield grabs.

- If you shield Sheiks needles you can roll right afterwards to avoid shield grabs. If you get by the needles, I THINK you can spot dodge in time to avoid it. I need to test that out. I'm positive that it depends on the number of needles she throws though. If she throws alot and you take them all, then I doubt you can get away in time. If she just throws one or a few and you take the hit, then it may be possible for you to get out of the way.

- Not much to this one. Work on your spacing. Make sure to use attacks that have less lag. SHFFLed Fairs and Nairs. And also d-tilts. F-tilt is ok with proper spacing. If you whiff a SHFFL or a d-tilt then immediately dash away or roll. Your actions will change depending on who you are facing. I tend to roll more vs Fox because he is faster so dashing away isn't always viable. But if you dash forward, Marth will usually dash right past Fox as he goes for a SHFFL. Then you can turn around and grab. Just a little tip.

- Yeah , jabs are annoying. Usually after you get hit, your instinct is to shield and that gets you murdered. When you get hit with a jab you can just jump away, or air dodge away and into the ground for a delayed waveland. It just takes timing and it depends on the jab. Some jabs pop you up more, some knock you back a little more. Jumping away is a reliable answer though. You can roll away after getting hit with some jabs too.

 

[WhiteOblv]

my main problem is i get shield grabbed alot. is that a problem cuz my spacing? how would i go about getting better at spacing?

 

[UMBC Super Smasher]

my main problem is i get shield grabbed alot. is that a problem cuz my spacing? how would i go about getting better at spacing?

Are you using the C-stick for your aerials? Make sure you're always DIing away at the end of your attacks.

 

[WhiteOblv]

kk thnx. yes i use c-stick for my aerials but i think im not spacing well enough thnx.

 

[Ether]

Thanks, EL. I took your advice, and I hardly get grabbed anymore.

This topic is good.

Edit - I thought of another time I get grabbed: when I'm tech chased, particularly by Sheik. Not much I can do there. It's just a matter of changing my wake ups while trying to get to the edge.

 

[Virgilijus]

I get grabbed when a Falco spams SHL on his approach and occasionally gets me while I'm stunned or in the shield.

 

[ChaosKnight]

lol this thread is funny =p

 

[Ether]

How so, CK?

 

[technomancer]

I space my crap and get WD-grabbed out of shield, or Marth just grabs me out of my ground attack cuz he's gay like that...

WD grab out of shield > Marth.

 

[Emblem Lord]

WD out of shield only works on his F-smash and his u-tilt.

The solution is not to spam them and to use them wisely.

Edit. It works on a few of his other moves. But not the ones that make up the core of his most used moves that he needs for his appraoch and his tactics. Just be smarter about when you use certain moves.

 

[MookieRah]

WD grab out of shield > Marth.

Are you referring to Marth dittos? Also, are you relying on a random stray ground attack? Your post was vague so I can't be sure, but you need to start doing moves based on your opponent and not just randomly toss something out and hope it hits. That is a very very poor strategy.

****, EL beat me. CURSES!

 

[Cactuar]

Bull. I totally throw random forward smashes out all the time.

 

[UMBC Super Smasher]

Bull. I totally throw random forward smashes out all the time.

Random anything is usually a good thing. The problem is when it becomes predictable.

 

[JesiahTEG]

eh, idk. Random is good or bad, because if you base it on statistics, if it's random theres a 50/50 chance it will hit. If it doesnt hit, you get punished. + usually against players the chance of hitting is a lot lower. But, I guess it can be good, I get random Fsmashes a lot, mainly because Fsmash is broken beyond belief.

 

[Bibbed]

Why did Husband abandon HIS thread?

 

[JesiahTEG]

Why did Husband abandon HIS thread?

Because Husband is too cool for silly Marth forum threads. lol He's probably just busy or something.

 

[knightpraetor]

- If you shield Sheiks needles you can roll right afterwards to avoid shield grabs. If you get by the needles, I THINK you can spot dodge in time to avoid it. I need to test that out. I'm positive that it depends on the number of needles she throws though. If she throws alot and you take them all, then I doubt you can get away in time. If she just throws one or a few and you take the hit, then it may be possible for you to get out of the way


so question..is spot dodge or rolling faster? you imply that you can spot dodge but not roll in time...i'm going to go check one of the guides..but post the answer here in case i can't find it

 

[JesiahTEG]

I think it depends on how many needles sheik throws. If there's a lot, you can't escape. If there's only 1, or a few, then you may be able to escape.