Why is Lucas low tier???

[PKNintendo]

Paying homage to that topic in the Ness boards. Why IS Lucas low tier? Is it because people think the grab release is that bad???

(Lucas is only grab released dsmash by DK, only if he cargo's him, and spins back and forth)

 

[Smady]

Because he's light-weight, his moveset is versatile but has a steep learning curve and his recovery is gimpable, if you aren't very good. Or, more simply, the best players don't play as him enough.

 

[Tyr_03]

Because he isn't very good.

 

[Neon Ness]

Because he's light-weight, his moveset is versatile but has a steep learning curve and his recovery is gimpable, if you aren't very good. Or, more simply, the best players don't play as him enough.

His learning curve is still not as steep as Ness', though. And his recovery isn't that gimpable, because his PK Thunder goes through people. But you're right about there not being enough of the best players using him... I think NinjaLink uses him somewhat but not a whole lot of others besides him/her...

I wonder why that is?

 

[Barge]

Please remember this is only 1.0, There will be many changes to come, i myself think lucas should be a bit higher, but, meh.

 

[Blackbelt]

Please remember this is only 1.0, There will be many changes to come, i myself think lucas should be a bit higher, but, meh.

I agree....

 

[Royale]

The more everyone in this forum section continue to play as Lucas, the more his metagame will evolve. I wouldnt worry about tiers in ****. What i would worry about is lack of new findings due ultimately to lack of players! While i dont main Lucas, i play him because its fun. And i enjoy practicing Zap jumping.

 

[Dxt XXII]

For me Lucas belongs in the middle of mid tier, but not many good smashers use him. His steep learning curve also stops some people from using him. He is underrated, and really has only 4 or 5 counters. Marth's deathgrab is overrated.

 

[HiddenBowser]

Lucas isn't going any higher on the next tier list. He kinda sucks... really bad.

 

[Smady]

Is Bowyer the epitomy of angst around here?

 

[HiddenBowser]

Is Bowyer the epitomy of angst around here?

What's next? Are you going to predict I have ADD? lol

 

[Smady]

It's just that you are modeling the Vincent avatar and the few posts of yours I have read I noted that you bash the character of that particular character sub-forum, which is a cliche type of thing for a moderator to do (I presume so, with the colours).

 

[HiddenBowser]

I love the way he probably doesn't know the fact that he hit the head on the nail so hard in that last post.

lol at Levitas' in person quotes.

What can I say, I like to have fun on the boards.

 

[Smady]

Please, keep having fun. I enjoy reading your deliciously insulting posts.

 

[Levitas]

lol exact quotes

bonus points to everyone who notices the nonsense of my words without reading this

 

[ZMan]

The little guy has a lot of bad matchups, most of which are some of the better characters in the game (DK, Snake, ect), he has a steep learning curve, no one really placed with him in major tournies, and he's pretty limited (the whole reason I quit maining him).

He's not all bad of a character but all that contributes to him being low tier.

 

[HiddenBowser]

he has a steep learning curve

everyone needs to ****ing stop talking about learning curve. just because a character is bad doesn't mean the character has a steep learning curve. Like seriously, go to any character's boards that sucks and you will see people posting about how their character isn't bad, they just have a steep learning curve. When you start placing well in major tournaments, you can go around saying who has and doesn't have a steep learning curve, but until then, seriously, shut the **** up. Like, sure, it's difficult to place with ****ty characters but that doesn't say anything about how hard it is to ****ing master your character.

 

[Blackbelt]

While I disagree with Bowyer's tone, he is right.



Steep Learning Curve is a BS excuse.

 

[HiddenBowser]

does my tone upset you? lol.

 

[Blackbelt]

does my tone upset you? lol.

Nah, it's the internet. Nothing upsets anyone, unless they're a little pansy.


It's just that you're making a legitimate point, and little pansies will only focus on all the curse words, instead of admitting the truth.

 

[Mith_]

Nah, it's the internet. Nothing upsets anyone, unless they're a little pansy.


It's just that you're making a legitimate point, and little pansies will only focus on all the curse words, instead of admitting the truth.

I think that statement is sig worthy

 

[Tyr_03]

lol no one in brawl has a steep learning curve. The "advanced techniques" in this game take all of about three days to master. It's all about your spacing and general ability of the player. Oh yeah and matchups.

 

[HiddenBowser]

It's just that you're making a legitimate point, and little pansies will only focus on all the curse words, instead of admitting the truth.

lol, it happens all the time. I make legit posts about stuff like this all the ****ing time, and scrubs usually just freak out leave, but whatever, if they ever want to get better, I'll be around, lol.

 

[HiddenBowser]

lol no one in brawl has a steep learning curve. The "advanced techniques" in this game take all of about three days to master. It's all about your spacing and general ability of the player. Oh yeah and matchups.

eh, a character doesn't need have tough technical stuff in order to have a tough learning curve. Many characters have little tricks that are very difficult to learn and pull off semi consistently but are crucial to the character's metagame. It can also be difficult to learn what moves are best in follow up situations so that you can continue to follow up attacks as well as avoid getting owned in the process. Look at C. Falcon, he has one of the most difficult follow up games in smash, but it's absolutely crucial to learn in order to give him the best chances of winning.

 

[Tyr_03]

^^^
I can agree with that. It's obviously much more difficult to find and exploit advantageous situations for certain characters who aren't as well endowed such as Captain Falcon in comparison to Metaknight. In this sense, sure the character could be said to have a significantly steeper learning curve. More time is needed to understand their moves intimately because they are more situational and can't just be spammed like Metaknight's neutral B.

However, when you compare it to the learning curve of some characters in Melee, it's really almost funny to say that any Brawl character has a significantly steep learning curve. Learning to play Ness exceptionally well in Melee was exponentially more difficult than learning Ness in Brawl. I spent tons of time in Melee learning how to effectively control Fox (waveshine, drillshine, multishine, shine->Bair, etc.) while in Brawl some of the most complicated advanced techniques (supposedly) such as Sheik's DACUS and the Ice Climbers' infinite chaingrabs took only a few days to be able to do consistently. The only things that are truly difficult to master in Brawl are the simple things like how to space certain moves, which moves to punish with, understanding the hitbox size of various moves etc. These are things that were just as necesary in Melee but were accompanied by a vast assortment of advanced techniques which were difficult to perfect as well.

So yeah you can say that pretty much every character in Brawl has a steeper learning curve than Metaknight. But it's really not by all that much. An excellent player will be able to learn his or her character very well in a short time either way and their ability to win will be based on the calibur of player they are and the character matchups more than "well that character still has potential to be unlocked." If this could be the case at all, it is very shortly going to come to an end. I can see how it could be argued for characters such as Pikachu in the case of Anther but let's face it. It won't be all that long until a character is what it is and nothing more. The trick won't be "learning" a character but rather knowing him/her backward and forwards as any good player should for their main(s.)

 

[HiddenBowser]

@ Tyr: I disagree with the statement that people can learn their character very well in a short time. It takes a lot of time to learn a character inside and out, and even the greats are still learning how to play their characters better. (I believe you need to take mindgames into account for learning your character, because every character has their own set of character specific mindgames and tricks.) And it's seriously almost impossible to fully master a character.

 

[Zielmann]

I'd say that Lucas is really fun to play, especially in FFA's. As for why he's low tier, I really don't care. I't kinda bothers me that so many people are so obsessed with tiers, anyhow.

Don't complain about being low tier. If you enjoy the charcter, then get good with him (or her), and show people why he shouldn't be low tier. I always feel a sense of joy when I win with Yoshi, or any other character that I would typically claim as sucking pretty hard.

And if you use a high-tier character, you're probably winning matches anyhow, so you can get your joy from that.


Maybe I'm just a Brawl masochist, but I really do enjoy playing with some of the lesser characters. (but I'll always go back to G&W when I need to redeem myself)

 

[themrskills]

I myself , and all the people that I've beaten with Lucas, believe that Lucas can be played effectively. I'm not going to get into the argument that low tier characters can be good, but cough cough Mewtwo cough cough taj.

 

[HiddenBowser]

I myself , and all the people that I've beaten with Lucas, believe that Lucas can be played effectively. I'm not going to get into the argument that low tier characters can be good, but cough cough Mewtwo cough cough taj.

when you master a character, good things happen... The tiers generally don't matter as much at top levels of play. Except maybe MK... cause he's broke as **** and should be banned, lol.

 

[Iron Mushroom]

when you master a character, good things happen... The tiers generally don't matter as much at top levels of play. Except maybe MK... cause he's broke as **** and should be banned, lol.

Yeah. People just don't understand that It's YOUR SKILL that matters, not their stats! I mean sure, The stats do have something to say, but really, IT'S THE SKIIIIIIIIL!!!!

 

[Star Lucas]

Hey, at least Lucas isn't last....unlike Captain Falcon =(. Eh, just play whoever you like ;p.

 

[HiddenBowser]

Yeah. People just don't understand that It's YOUR SKILL that matters, not their stats! I mean sure, The stats do have something to say, but really, IT'S THE SKIIIIIIIIL!!!!

It's your skill and the full understanding of all of your characters possibilities at any given point and which of those possibilities are the best to use.

 

[unwelc0med]

he is a little underrated, but his recovery isn't too hot imo.

 

[Sonic527]

Tiers merely show how good a character can be if someone who never played brawl just picked up a controller and started using that character.

 

[Levitas]

Tiers merely show how good a character can be if someone who never played brawl just picked up a controller and started using that character.

No, the other thing. They show how good players of each character would stack up in a tournament.

 

[HiddenBowser]

Tiers merely show how good a character can be if someone who never played brawl just picked up a controller and started using that character.

huh? If I'm understanding you right, then, no, it's not. Tiers generally don't matter to both top level players, and ****ty/halfway decent players. Like if 2 equally ****ty scrubs pick up the game, one plays MK, the other plays Yoshi, I wouldn't say the MK has a decent matchup, I'd say it'll go either way because they both blow.

 

[PKNintendo]

Because he's light-weight, his moveset is versatile but has a steep learning curve and his recovery is gimpable, if you aren't very good. Or, more simply, the best players don't play as him enough.

Lucas is mid weight.

And everytime I see Lucas and tier in the same sentence it's. DEATHGVRA LOLZ.

1. If Ness can escape Marth's CG at with 15% (Super grab break by the way) IMmpretty sure Lucas can escape earlier.

2. Lucas is only grab released downsmash by DK (again, only if they spin and around and it's a 50-50 chance lol)


Plenty of the current characters in mid tier have bad matchups. ex: Luigi, who actually HAS an infinite (via DDD) Fox, who gets CG by Pikachu from 0-60 with little effort e.c.t

I can go on, but in my opinion, it's that DG infinite rumor thats putting Lucas down.

 

[Smady]

I wasn't thinking of his weight in relativity... you're right, he's mid-weight.

 

[Tyr_03]

I dunno. The idea of even talking about learning curves in Brawl just bugs me because there isn't the depth that Melee had. I guess I'm just comparing between games too much. Melee has a steeper learning curve than Brawl. : )

 

[Neon Ness]

he is a little underrated, but his recovery isn't too hot imo.

Sorry, I disagree with that...

His PK Thunda goes twice the distance of Ness', he's got a tether recovery, and the magnet pull... Lucas has excellent recovery options.