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Who's Canonically the Strongest Character in Smash?

Kirby Dragons

Smash Hero
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Another Dimension
Well, that seems in-line with Schwarz being identified as a "black hole".
That's never defined as a veritable black hole.
A) For the same reason that, say, Sonic has to charge up before a Spin Dash.
B) And the rest of the body is not.
A) How does that prove that Baton Kirby needs to charge up his attack?
B) I never said it was.
Marx spreads his wings as if he's flying, and stars come out from below him (indicating that some sort of force is at work).
If you launch a folded piece of paper, it becomes unfolded; a similar thing happened to Marx. The force that created the stars would be Kirby's attack.
When the credits showed the surface being completely unscathed.
That didn't show all of the surface.
Because at this point it's just speculation.
It's more than that.
Samus can aim at moving enemies, so a crouching Kirby would be no problem.
There's a difference. Kirby is becoming smaller, allowing him to dodge. When has Samus hit a shrinking enemy, especially from a distance?
Those don't really look like electrical attacks, or at least not the kind that Samus uses.
Doesn't matter that much.
It's not. It's also not stated that they're separate.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance
Then you'll have to specify what you're referring to.
See 3:40.
Because Kirby is applying the sideways launching force.
How does that mean Marx Soul isn't launched?
I was hoping it would be a bit more clear.
I already understood what you were trying to say.
Who ever said anything about self-esteem?
That's what the page you linked was about.
Striking isn't the result of simply "the sword", as striking doesn't occur whenever there's a sword.
Explosions don't always occur whenever there's a bomb, yet explosions are the result of a bomb.
The strike is the result of the swing, arm movement, etc.
Explosions are the result of fire.
It's the final effect in a chain of causes and effects (or at least, the final effect within a certain context).
True.
No, it's not specific enough.
That's the most specific thing I have.
A) It could be a matter of underestimating Kirby, not being very bright, or just game balance.
B) Because they don't use their most powerful (and energy-draining) attacks.
A) If they're getting destroyed, they wouldn't be underestimating. What about being dumb means you don't use powerful attacks? Game balance still allows the use of powerful attacks.
B) Again, the most powerful attacks in Kirby don't drain energy.
A) It could be giving the user a speed buff.
B) As agreed to by the trainers.
A) The Speed stat stays the same.
B) If it was, it wouldn't be an effect.
Right, the invincible hedgehog is actually invincible, whereas the Pokemon in the forcefield isn't (although the forcefield itself is rather protective).
Thus dismissing your logic.
Prove that they exist, then.
If there are changes in the swing, they could be minor changes that aren't very noticeable. Same goes with Kirby's attacks.
In that case, each of the Clone Troopers is Jango Fett.
In what case?
Then you may want to try rewatching the video you linked.
I did, and I didn't see him land on the platform before flying.
Perhaps because it's one-way (i.e. only works on the side of the "portal" that's facing away from Kirby).
Nerves (or whatever method the brain uses to control the mouth) attach everywhere in a mouth, so they'd be going inward.
And these bosses have multiple attacks.
They use multiple attacks on Kirby.
It seems more like white/pink energy to me.
Energy deals damage.
A) The fireballs aren't.
B) Why is raising his arm removed?
A) Water Kirby's attacks move at roughly the same speed.
B) It doesn't contribute to Kirby gaining a Copy Ability.
A) I'm pretty sure we agreed to the Copy Abilities getting knocked out of him. I'd have to go back and look, though.
B) And so the solution you suggested earlier (Kirby flying up out of the way) isn't applicable here.
A) We did, but that doesn't mean he can't get them back.
B) Then he walks away and flies up.
One spinoff game < multiple main series games.
Magic Boomerang rule.
A) He has to spin it.
B) After spinning it.
C) Kirby seems to be.
A) He doesn't.
B) Before spinning it.
C) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning
Since Kirby appeared next to them. Kirby is eight inches tall, so if an object is, say, three times Kirby's height, we can conclude that it's two feet tall (3 * 8 inches = 2 feet).
Correct, but when did Kirby appear next to the mountain?
It's slow enough for Bowser to counter attack.
His fist would go into the blade while it's swinging.
Flamethrowers can be shot at each other, and I don't believe that they cancel out.
Prove it.
Which is?
Not being able to move.
You're arguing the positive, and you haven't proven it, so the burden of proof rests on you.
Uh, no. I didn't make a statement here, it's yours.
Then it's more similar to Rocket Dive, which has no charge and thus doesn't travel at Mach 5.
A) The attack in the anime didn't turn any.
B) Rocket Dive has to charge.
And the same thing applies to the enemy launched by the tornado.
Octacon wasn't in view, so no.
While Mario is shooting at Kirby, Kirby turns into gold.
How does this counter what I said?
The more mass something has, the more mass has to be converted into gold by the Gold Flower.
Prove it.
Kirby is smaller (and less massive) than things that the Gold Flower can transform, so it will work.
See above.
There's more mass that must be converted. One Gold Flower can convert one Brick Block into gold, but not two.
Then how come the Gold Flower works on Bowser?
Then why would it hurt Mario?
Kirby doesn't use it as an attack in Kirby, but there's not a reason why he can't do it here.
Are you seriously telling me that this isn't slow? Even if Kirby wasn't eight inches tall, he'd still be moving at the speed of molasses.
That isn't very slow.
"Wing Mario" isn't any more indication of a transformation than "Colonel Jones" is.
That's how all of Mario's transformations are. Fire Mario, Super Mario, Mini Mario, etc.
When does Mario die from something like this?
Any human would die from being thrown with tons of force into a wall from a long distance.
A) Um... what? I don't see how Kirby being behind Mario would lead to him hurting himself.
B) Still, I think it should be something more than a first degree burn on a small area of his body.
A) If Mario tried to kick Kirby, he'd kick himself.
B) Fireballs can do that after hitting the bottom of his body.
When are there three Kirbies that can all attack at once?
The phone from Amazing Mirror summons them.
It changes the list.
It doesn't change the list, it adds to it.
Really? I'm seeing about fifty different Mega Stones there.
The ruling is that Magic Room doesn't negate Mega Stones. The ruling isn't that Magic Room doesn't negate Charizardite, Lucarionite, Mewtwonite, etc. Mega Stones are treated as one item there.
Not being able to destroy one specific thing doesn't necessarily indicate a lack of force.
Except the former wheel can destroy cardboard, so that statement remains unproved.
Point?

Point?
Disproving your argument.
I could be holding two flashlights in either hand. One is a small pocket-sized one, and the other is a large, heavy-duty model. My small flashlight runs out of batteries, but I can still use the large one. Does this mean that the electricity is not energy?
The flashlights are completely separate from each other and use different electricity, while similar moves all come from the body of a Pokemon and use the same energy.
Me: Cutscenes are made to progress the story.
You: Not necessarily.
Me: How so?
You: Bonus cutscenes aren't.
I didn't see when I used my argument.
Then we can't assume.
Why not?
He has no time to. Sonic is moving at the speed of lightning (224,000 MPH).
Actually, Sonic is shrinking, not moving. Besides, I've already shown Kirby reacting to 224,000 MPH lightning.
A) Sonic is moving at the speed of lightning. That's 224,000 MPH, Mach 294 (ish), or enough to cross the entire arena in practically the blink of an eye. Sonic will have no trouble getting there in time.
B) It lasts long enough.
A) He won't, because the Boost doesn't cross an entire area.
B) It's not a matter of lasting, it's a matter of distance.
I don't see the logic in this.
He expresses love when he's talking about the battery. Thus, love has something to do with the battery.
He observed the scanners, most likely.
That wouldn't lead to Olimar's observations concluding that the Dimensional Slicer cut through space and time.
And do they add up to seven inches thick?
They add up to a lot more than that.
Any enemies in the next room are still in the area, so the pattern would indicate that they're rather weak.
It's mentioned in his journal entry.
What entry?
The only thing I found about "injury" in that article is in the "triggers" section.
Search "physical pain".
So by virtue of likelihood, the knife's space-time-slicing is likely false.
The outlandish claims aren't usually done by observation like this one, so they'd be different.
You're saying that Star Bits are compressed water. I said that compressed water balls would deflect each other. You tried to disprove my point by bringing up something that's not compressed water.
Being in the same series doesn't mean that they behave in the same way.
Do you have evidence that the wand's abilities behave differently?
Unless Rosalina keeps it away from Kirby.
How?
A) No, but they can reach pretty darn far.
B) And Rosalina keeps a longer distance.
A) Mario physics say that black holes only work in certain directions, so Kirby can avoid one by teleporting diagonally.
B) Can she get there in time?
By aiming so that they end up in the right place.
How would they even know where the black holes are?
A sheathed sword can still be removed.
With a frozen hand/sheathe over it?
If Marth wants to use his sword, he'd best keep it out.
He wouldn't need to use it at the moment, he'd need to protect it.
The Light Speed Attack/Dash can curve in tight trajectories.
However, that's still different from the Blue Tornado.
We clearly see it in gameplay.
It could be fast, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's Sonic's running speed.
We don't see any indication of the animal being attached to the teeth.
You pull it, and it doesn't come out.
I never saw the influence attempt to affect Sonic.
He saw it from the beginning of the game (or at least the opening cutscene).
Yet, he didn't see it at the time he decided to howl, meaning it wasn't a war cry.
Is that not the point of this argument?
The point is that if Sonic had a feral personality, the Darksphere wouldn't work on him.
Because this happens.
I didn't see Sonic inhaling and exhaling.
He has enough control to freeze time etc.
Freezing time is the effect of Chaos Control, that wouldn't mean he controls the move any.
"Planetary durability" is meaningless.
It means you are capable of surviving attacks that destroy planets. Power Bomb is less than that.
Because we were discussing a different subject.
You mean the guard vs Samus' lasers?
When does it weaken an explosion of this magnitude?
It doesn't.
You were trying to put him at 20 MPH, when he moves at lower speeds in the games.
So, who destroyed a continent then?
The Dolhr Empire was seizing Archanea rather forcefully. Gharnef and Medeus are the biggest parts of this.
Erm, Mario isn't in Fire Emblem. :dizzy: Since he isn't in Fire Emblem, "it negates everything in Fire Emblem" is irrelevant here.
I wasn't saying it would negate Mega Mario's attacks because it negated everything in Fire Emblem; I was saying it would negate his attacks because it can negate more powerful things.
Attacks from Ashera.
A) Unless he didn't activate it fully.
B) Not necessarily all of it.
A) Weapons in Kirby can't be partially activated.
B) The way Magolor looks suggests yes.
It means we can't make baseless assumptions.
Except I just provided a base.
And they could cause an explosion as a result. It's like shooting an RPG at a box five feet in front of you. The box will explode, but so will you.
Except 99% of attacks don't cause explosions when destroying things. Even if they did cause explosions, the bosses keep their distance most of the time.
When does Kirby launch things into space?
You're kidding, right?
So this wouldn't automatically make Mewtwo win.
Not alone, but in conjunction with his most powerful attacks, it could bypass Sonic's defenses and kill him.
Can't a Pokemon only hold one item?
Yes, and I don't see your point.
Actually, they don't. Back Slash doesn't destroy the universe.
Because Shulk doesn't use it to.
Not exactly. See, Caliburn is part of the legendary sword Excalibur, which is meant for the true king of England (AKA King Arthur). At the end of Black Knight, it's revealed that Sonic is the real "King Arthur", so Caliburn is his.
Ah. Still, Caliburn isn't holy, and neither is the Arrow of Light. Neither will work against Ganondorf.
Homing Attack
The Light Speed Attack is a bit faster than that.
Fast ≠ rapid.
Prove that they can block an attack with 300+ tons of force.
They work on Arceus' attacks, who has universal power.
Here you go. From Vocabulary.com.
That page didn't exactly go against my case. In fact, it went toward my case. Note how the "intensifier" definition mentions someone being a swine. People are often called swines in Britain.
If it was a real black hole, then it wouldn't be possible for Kirby's mouth to be blocked off during the battle against Queen Sectonia. Black holes also don't inhale things.
Kirby has rather great control over his stomach/mouth.
Also, your link to Word Reference says "veritable" is to be understood metaphorically if it's prenominal. In this case, it is a prenominal adjective, or the adjective precedes the noun, "veritable black hole". Once again, it is often understood as a metaphor.
That's British.
Besides, why does it matter if one is British and the other is not? Am I to think that Americans created English, or should I take it from the British? Am I to think that if someone else is from the Europe, that I should ignore them on this matter?
British definitions can be different from other definitions. The intensifier definition is only used by the British, while the other definition is used by anyone else. The picture I posted wasn't made by the British, so they don't use the British definition, and they aren't calling it a metaphor.
 

Munomario777

Smash Master
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That's never defined as a veritable black hole.
And?
A) How does that prove that Baton Kirby needs to charge up his attack?
B) I never said it was.
A) Kirby is building up energy for this. Spinning things possess energy, and I'd imagine that energy would be needed to make something explode.
B) Then how can Kirby move it?
If you launch a folded piece of paper, it becomes unfolded; a similar thing happened to Marx. The force that created the stars would be Kirby's attack.
How is a piece of paper becoming unfolded relevant to Marx launching off into space?
That didn't show all of the surface.
It showed an area inside the explosion.
It's more than that.
Then where is the proof?
There's a difference. Kirby is becoming smaller, allowing him to dodge. When has Samus hit a shrinking enemy, especially from a distance?
Kirby is barely shrinking. Shrinking and moving are similar (if anything, moving objects would be harder to track), and Samus has taken care of the latter.
Doesn't matter that much.
It does. If Kirby hasn't been shown to inhale an electrical attack similar to Samus's, then we can't assume that he could.
If it can't really be proven either way, then we should make the reasonable assumption and say that it's an alteration of one of Kirby's attacks from the games.
See 3:40.
Okay, then. Thank you.
How does that mean Marx Soul isn't launched?
He is, but only by a few inches.
I already understood what you were trying to say.
It didn't seem like it.
That's what the page you linked was about.
Ah, yes. I was more getting to the integration of lying into human nature. This could be as a result of Olimar seeing the scan (which he believed to be correct), and then writing the results in his journal so that people wouldn't judge him for being wrong and contradicting the scan.
Explosions don't always occur whenever there's a bomb, yet explosions are the result of a bomb.
More a result of the bomb being activated.
Explosions are the result of fire.
More like fire coming into contact with an explosive substance (i.e. a barrel of gunpowder).
That's the most specific thing I have.
Well, it's not gonna cut it.
A) If they're getting destroyed, they wouldn't be underestimating. What about being dumb means you don't use powerful attacks? Game balance still allows the use of powerful attacks.
B) Again, the most powerful attacks in Kirby don't drain energy.
A) Even if they're getting destroyed, they may still believe that it would be easy to take down Kirby with their regular attacks (as he is still only a pink puffball) and don't bother with the more powerful ones. A certain degree of stupidity would also cause this. Game balance makes it so it's not too hard for the player to win, and more powerful attacks might cause too much challenge.
B) Prove it.
A) The Speed stat stays the same.
B) If it was, it wouldn't be an effect.
A) Does this occur with other speed-enhancing moves?
B) Why not?
Thus dismissing your logic.
How so? If anything, I'd expect the invincible thing to be more protected than the non-invincible thing.
If there are changes in the swing, they could be minor changes that aren't very noticeable. Same goes with Kirby's attacks.
Prove that a non-visible variation would change it from escape velocity to a few inches to the side.
In what case?
In the case that a clone is "pretty much" the thing they're cloned from, as you put it.
I did, and I didn't see him land on the platform before flying.
I remember them happening at around the same time.
Nerves (or whatever method the brain uses to control the mouth) attach everywhere in a mouth, so they'd be going inward.
Unless the wonders of biology prevent them from getting sucked in.
They use multiple attacks on Kirby.
Prove that they're the same ones that destroy planets (or whatever it was).
Energy deals damage.
Not necessarily. We're full of energy that food gives us when we eat it, and yet we're not damaged.
A) Water Kirby's attacks move at roughly the same speed.
B) It doesn't contribute to Kirby gaining a Copy Ability.
A) Oh, weren't we discussing the Star Spit? Anyway, Water Kirby's attacks can't hit at all angles at once, can they?
B) And?
A) We did, but that doesn't mean he can't get them back.
B) Then he walks away and flies up.
A) It does if they disappear before he can do so (which is likely if Bowser keeps hitting him).
B) And Bowser follows him.
Magic Boomerang rule.
If we're combining attributes, then the sleeping upon gaining the ability would still apply.
A) He doesn't.
B) Before spinning it.
C) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning
A-B) Discussed above.
C) How so? I asked why Kirby cannot enjoy the charging, and you gave no real proof.
Correct, but when did Kirby appear next to the mountain?
When he sliced it in half.
His fist would go into the blade while it's swinging.
Unless he has halfway decent aim. Either way, he'd likely be hitting the flat end (he's punching from the side).
Prove it.
Prove that they do. You made the original assertion of energy attacks canceling out.
Not being able to move.
Prove that it's a game mechanic.
Uh, no. I didn't make a statement here, it's yours.
You're saying that Kirby is moving at Mach 5 in the clip. Kirby is only stated to move at Mach 5 after charging up, so now you need to prove that he charges up.
A) The attack in the anime didn't turn any.
B) Rocket Dive has to charge.
A) Isn't the cornering the reason that you brought it up?
B) Do you have a video of this?
Octacon wasn't in view, so no.
And Octacon isn't in space, like the island.
How does this counter what I said?
You said that while Mario was shooting at Kirby, he could escape. If the fireball is as quick as it is, Kirby won't be doing that; instead, he will be getting turned into gold.
Prove it.
A Brick Block has less mass than two Brick Blocks. One has less mass than two, and so there is less mass that must be converted into gold.
Then how come the Gold Flower works on Bowser?
Does it really? In that case, that would only help Mario here.
Kirby doesn't use it as an attack in Kirby, but there's not a reason why he can't do it here.
Prove that it would produce enough force to damage Mario.
That isn't very slow.
It's certainly not fast by any stretch of the word.
That's how all of Mario's transformations are. Fire Mario, Super Mario, Mini Mario, etc.
Prove that this is the case for the Wing Cap.
Any human would die from being thrown with tons of force into a wall from a long distance.
Any human would die from an explosion (such as that of a Bob-Omb), but Mario doesn't.
A) If Mario tried to kick Kirby, he'd kick himself.
B) Fireballs can do that after hitting the bottom of his body.
Where is Kirby exactly?
The phone from Amazing Mirror summons them.
Do you have a video of this?
It doesn't change the list, it adds to it.
Thus changing the list and its contents, number of entries, etc,
The ruling is that Magic Room doesn't negate Mega Stones. The ruling isn't that Magic Room doesn't negate Charizardite, Lucarionite, Mewtwonite, etc. Mega Stones are treated as one item there.
It's a group of items. It's not necessary to list them all off individually since they're collectively referred to as "Mega Stones".
Except the former wheel can destroy cardboard, so that statement remains unproved.
It depends on the wheel and the cardboard. Anyway, I don't believe this is relevant anymore, is it?
Disproving your argument.
Lumas transform into galaxies, and (either because the Lumas turn into the black holes themselves or they appear) there are black holes for Rosalina to use.
The flashlights are completely separate from each other and use different electricity, while similar moves all come from the body of a Pokemon and use the same energy.
So let's say that a robot has two stun guns in, say, its right arm. They have different strengths, and run on different batteries. These stun guns both come from the arm of the robot and use the same type of energy, yet they use different sources for that energy. The same can be said for Pokemon.
I didn't see when I used my argument.
You did in the last sentence. You just added the word "bonus".
Because doing so is unproved speculation.
Actually, Sonic is shrinking, not moving.
No, he's moving while shrunken.
Besides, I've already shown Kirby reacting to 224,000 MPH lightning.
When?
A) He won't, because the Boost doesn't cross an entire area.
B) It's not a matter of lasting, it's a matter of distance.
The boost ((let alone an object moving at the speed of lightning) can cross large distances in practically no time at all.
He expresses love when he's talking about the battery. Thus, love has something to do with the battery.
I eat a banana sandwich, and at that moment my chair collapses. Does that mean that banana sandwiches cause my chair to collapse? No. It's a coincidence.
That wouldn't lead to Olimar's observations concluding that the Dimensional Slicer cut through space and time.
Why not?
They add up to a lot more than that.
In one stack they might, but how many does it take to equal that amount?
Any enemies in the next room are still in the area, so the pattern would indicate that they're rather weak.
Prove that they were no threat, then.
What entry?
I believe it's near the end of the game. It's the one talking about the final boss.
Search "physical pain".
Pain =/= damage.
The outlandish claims aren't usually done by observation like this one, so they'd be different.
We have no evidence that it's done by observation.
You're saying that Star Bits are compressed water. I said that compressed water balls would deflect each other. You tried to disprove my point by bringing up something that's not compressed water.
You have yet to prove that compressed water balls deflect each other.
Do you have evidence that the wand's abilities behave differently?
No. Do you have evidence that they behave the same?
By becoming intangible, teleporting, or just attacking him.
A) Mario physics say that black holes only work in certain directions, so Kirby can avoid one by teleporting diagonally.
B) Can she get there in time?
A) When?
B) Most likely, and if not, she could just tell the Lumas to delay the black holes.
How would they even know where the black holes are?
They're the ones creating the black holes.
With a frozen hand/sheathe over it?
Which Sonic could then move.
He wouldn't need to use it at the moment, he'd need to protect it.
He won't exactly win by doing that.
However, that's still different from the Blue Tornado.
Both involve tight circles.
It could be fast, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's Sonic's running speed.
We can assume that it's the speed shown, since nothing states otherwise.
You pull it, and it doesn't come out.
I didn't see any mentioning of pulling teeth in the definition.
I never saw the influence attempt to affect Sonic.
It does; he's turned into a werewolf.
Yet, he didn't see it at the time he decided to howl, meaning it wasn't a war cry.
Why can a howl not be a war cry?
The point is that if Sonic had a feral personality, the Darksphere wouldn't work on him.
This could also be achieved by his willpower (in combination with the Chaos Emeralds if need be).
I didn't see Sonic inhaling and exhaling.
Watch his mouth open as he inhales the bubble, complete with sound effect.
Freezing time is the effect of Chaos Control, that wouldn't mean he controls the move any.
Shadow does.
It means you are capable of surviving attacks that destroy planets. Power Bomb is less than that.
What attack does Kirby survive that also destroys a planet? I mean the attack, not the boss etc.
You mean the guard vs Samus' lasers?
Are we not discussing the Power Bomb?
It doesn't.
Then why would it here?
You were trying to put him at 20 MPH, when he moves at lower speeds in the games.
That was before Dryn calculated his actual running speed.
The Dolhr Empire was seizing Archanea rather forcefully. Gharnef and Medeus are the biggest parts of this.
I don't see how this relates to a character's durability.
I wasn't saying it would negate Mega Mario's attacks because it negated everything in Fire Emblem; I was saying it would negate his attacks because it can negate more powerful things.
Such as?
Attacks from Ashera.
Such as?
A) Weapons in Kirby can't be partially activated.
B) The way Magolor looks suggests yes.
A) What does that have to do with anything?
B) I don't see how that look necessitates infinite power.
Except I just provided a base.
Which is?
Except 99% of attacks don't cause explosions when destroying things. Even if they did cause explosions, the bosses keep their distance most of the time.
Kirby's attacks could clash with them in some way. Either way, caution is a good thing to practice when dealing with things this powerful.
You're kidding, right?
I meant other than Marx.
Not alone, but in conjunction with his most powerful attacks, it could bypass Sonic's defenses and kill him.
The invincibility power-up makes Sonic, well, invincible, to a similar extent as Super Sonic does (he can walk on lava, for instance).
Yes, and I don't see your point.
Then I don't see why difficulty with holding multiple items is relevant.
Because Shulk doesn't use it to.
And why should we assume it's being used to when attacking the armor?
Ah. Still, Caliburn isn't holy, and neither is the Arrow of Light. Neither will work against Ganondorf.
The Master Emerald is holy.
Fast ≠ rapid.
It's rapid as well.
They work on Arceus' attacks, who has universal power.
When do these attacks destroy the universe?
 
Last edited:

Amiiboshiibo

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Mar 20, 2015
Messages
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Has anyone said Wario yet? He's completely invincible, and his Shoulder Bash can kill anything in at most 2 hits.
 

Munomario777

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Has anyone said Wario yet? He's completely invincible, and his Shoulder Bash can kill anything in at most 2 hits.
Wario can be harmed more often than not, so we treat him as non-indestructible since that's more consistent. The Shoulder Bash killing regular enemies in two hits doesn't mean much against the Smash cast.
 

Crystanium

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Location
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There's a difference. Kirby is becoming smaller, allowing him to dodge. When has Samus hit a shrinking enemy, especially from a distance?
Kirby isn't shrinking. Crouching isn't the same as shrinking. Crouching will reduce your surface area, but that's all it'll do.

Explosions don't always occur whenever there's a bomb, yet explosions are the result of a bomb.
Your first part is correct. Your second part is invalid and quite contradictory.

Explosions are the result of fire.
"An explosion is a rapid increase in volume and release of energy in an extreme manner, usually with the generation of high temperatures and the release of gases." (Explosion - Wikipedia)

That page didn't exactly go against my case. In fact, it went toward my case. Note how the "intensifier" definition mentions someone being a swine. People are often called swines in Britain.
Please prove that "veritable" is not an intensifier in the sentence. I mean, really, it's not like the Japanese speak English anyway. Again, considering "veritable" is often metaphoric and considering the sentence is using a prenominal adjective, it's clear that this is an intensifier.

Kirby has rather great control over his stomach/mouth.
This is an ad hoc hypothesis. A true black hole would spaghettify the contents near Kirby's mouth, especially considering the tidal waves would be magnified from a black hole that small. It wouldn't matter how much control Kirby has over his mouth and his stomach. Besides, speaking of Kirby's stomach like a black hole would only prove "black hole" is not to be understood literally.

That's British.
It's English. I'm still waiting for you to show why this is an issue. Also, here is an American dictionary for you. The full definition says, "being in fact the thing named and not false, unreal, or imaginary—often used to stress the aptness of a metaphor <a veritable mountain of references>".

British definitions can be different from other definitions. The intensifier definition is only used by the British, while the other definition is used by anyone else. The picture I posted wasn't made by the British, so they don't use the British definition, and they aren't calling it a metaphor.
Japanese definitions can be different from other definitions. Maybe we should be looking for the Japanese if you want to play this game. Now, let's assume that the description in the U.S. also shows up in the U.K. Two conflicting definitions. You didn't even address this. That sounds kind of like Americentrism. Since the word is a prenominal adjective, then by grammar alone you're incorrect.

By the way, I was pleased to focus on the light beam while playing Metroid Prime 2: Echoes. The beams fire a straight, focused beam of light. It never is seen in the same way as the power, dark, or annihilator beam as a projectile separate from the arm cannon. Further evidence of it beaming a laser of some kind.
 
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Reckless Godwin 2.0

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FE9's seems like a decent fit. Hyper Sonic is "blessed by the gods" in that they created the Master Emerald.

Dryn explained it rather well above. It's a technique called "Bolt of Lightning".

Yes, but while it was retconned, I still acknowledge character feats from it, since it's the same Sonic as was in the other games.

Can't they?

In Zelda, an empty bottle can reflect Ganon's tennis balls of energy, while a hookshot cannot. Does this mean that the empty bottle is more powerful than the hookshot?

They could help for Chaos Control, or taking care of certain characters (coughganoncough).

"You won't get away with this!"

Bolt of Lightning isn't used against Robotnik's machines.

What exactly are you referring to?

  • Vantage, Miracle, and Counter aren't proven to work on Sonic without extrapolation.
  • Adept and Cancel require another attack to be performed before it can activate, which won't occur here.
  • Aether won't be activated because Sonic attacks first.
  • Beastfoe only works on a specific tribe of beasts.
  • Corrosion and Disarm; Sonic isn't using a weapon.
  • Resolve and Wrath's stat buffs won't put the FE characters anywhere near Sonic's level.
  • Ragnell is just a sword with a few buffs, no?

Neither are the Silver Arrows, if I'm not mistaken. Either way, the Master Emerald (or rather, the Super Emeralds) fixes this.

Except here, the book and the real world are closely connected. Aside from Sonic and his chili dogs entering the storybook, in Sonic and the Secret Rings, a genie comes out of the storybook to meet Sonic.

By the time Mewtwo would even think of hitting :GCDpad:, Sonic would have already obliterated him.
The Master Emerald has the godly power, Sonic does not.

I asked for a link of Bolt of Lightning in action to see if it lives up to it’s title. Few thing in fiction do.

SEGA retconned a mainline Sonic game!? When did this happen?

Doesn’t that bending need to occur over an extended period of time compared to the sheer force that Giant Mario will apply in fractions of a second?

Yes the empty Bottle is more powerful than a Hookshot. Those Bottles are cpable of holding Fairies, Ghosts (poes), and magical Blue Fire http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/Blue_Fire.
According to the wikis you can play “Tennis” with the Biggoron’s Sword, Megaton Hammer, Bug Catching Net, and Shovel as well.

What makes you think Sonic could harness the Chaos Emeralds power in a way to harm let alone kill Ganondorf when he can’t even go back in time without assistance? He isn’t even as good as Shadow in this field.

“I already have Chaos Emerald boy, HAHAHAHAHAH”

The quote block that I was unable to respond to individually.

  • You have to provide evidence why they won’t work like normal.
  • Which will happen because of Vantage.
  • Vantage time!
  • It only works on a specific tribe of Beasts because wild Animals are smart enough to stay away from Ike so we couldn’t test it on them. It works perfectly fine on the transformation locked, insane Feral Ones http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Feral_One.
  • My goof, but those two can screw up a large portion of the cast.
  • They will significantly improve the activation rates of the other skills and sharply increase Ike’s damage output due to significantly more frequent triple damage critical hits.
  • An unbreakable sword that can fire devastating accurate and fast shockwaves out to bow user range, plus a small boost to physical defense.

Has Sonic ever managed to use a holy attribute attack powered by the emeralds?

At the end of the day, what started in the storybook stayed in the storybook.

Sonic has a tendency to talk smash to his opponent rather than murder him straight off the bat. We are talking about canonical Sonic, not Munomario777 in Sonic’s body. He will wind up talking smack than getting destroyed by Mewtwo before he finishes his first sentence.

Lore > gameplay. Lore says that Sonic moves at light speed.

What do you mean by "infinite knockback loop"?
Cutscenes>Gameplay>Lore in that order. One should also consider throwing out freakishly high or low end feats as well. I put cutscenes at the top because that is supposed to be the true representation of their abilities in the plot. Lore is at the bottom because one should use the show, don’t tell rule in media (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Show,_don't_tell and http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ShowDontTell) because it leaves less room for the imagination to blow feats out of proportion.

By “Infinite Knockback Loop” he means that Sonic gets attacked so often that Sonic doesn’t get a chance to recover once he gets hit the first time.

@ Reckless Godwin 2.0 Reckless Godwin 2.0 ,
Samus has dealt with plenty of large enemies. I could list them all off, if you'd like me to. However, I will just go ahead and list off large, mechanical enemies.

  • Ridley Robot
  • Hive Mecha
  • Meta Ridley
  • Caretaker Class Drone
  • Quadraxis
  • Mogenar
  • Defense Drone
  • Aurora Unit 313
  • Mother Brain
  • RB176 Ferrocrusher
  • Nightmare
  • B.O.X. Security Robot
  • Yakuza

Because I'm not familiar with Xenoblade, I'd need to know what attacks and defenses Metal Face has.

As for Sonic, I don't think Samus has a chance because of time freeze. There's no point continuing with the match between the two. Sonic can outrun power bombs, but in order for Sonic to do that, he'd need to know what Samus is doing in the first place. So it could go either way, it just looks like it'll favor Sonic overall.

About the super bomb, I'm willing to bet the size of that bomb is the size of an ordinary bomb. Yet, in the shop, it shows the super bomb next to three normal bombs. If we assume the size of these normal bombs displayed here are the actual size by comparison (which would make sense), then super bombs are almost as tall as Link.

Link is 44 pixels tall. The bomb is is 32 pixels tall. I'll assume Link is 152.4 cm., or 5'. Usually, I have the height for child and adult Link fixed, but Link from ALttP looks a little more mature. Anyway, assuming the casing is 1 pixel, I'll divide 31 pixels over 44 pixels. This is equal to 107.37 cm. in diameter. Using 4/3 pi r^3 gives me a volume of 648,157.54 cm^3. Then I'll multiply this by the density of gunpowder (1.7 g/cm^3), giving me 1,101,867.81 g. There's 3,000 J/g in gunpowder, so a super bomb yield is 3,305,603,437.5 J, or 0.79 tons of TNT, more than enough energy to vaporize a human.

As for your math, I'll give it a look. Resolve increases strength, skill, and speed by 50% when under 50% HP. Keeping 50% in mind, the following should be:

Aether = 0.22 * 0.5 = 0.11 + 0.22 = 0.33 * 100 = 33%
Guard = 0.45 * 0.5 = 0.225 + 0.45 = 0.675 * 100 = 67.5%, or 68% if we round up.
Adept = 0.45 * 0.5 = 0.225 + 0.45 = 0.675 * 100 = 67.5%, or 68% if we round up.
Counter = 0.45 * 0.5 = 0.225 + 0.45 = 0.675 * 100 = 67.5%, or 68% if we round up.
Disarm = 0.22 * 0.5 = 0.11 + 0.22 = 0.33 * 100 = 33%
Corrosion = 0.22 * 0.5 = 0.11 + 0.22 = 0.33 * 100 = 33%

This applies to Pavise as well if Resolve works on that. I'm not sure how you did the other parts concerning OHKO.
I’ll give you a Metal Face analysis when I finish putting up my own tier list.

Good thing Link only has one of those (He uses it to blow open a cracked wall on the Dark World Pyramid, which is where he winds up getting the Silver arrows from).

@Dryn You can simplify that equation like this:
Aether = 0.22 * 0.5 = 0.11 + 0.22 = 0.33 * 100 = 33% tuns into
Aether (%) = 22 * 1.5 = 33

The reason why we are 1-3% off is because I’m calculating from the statistics while you are calculating from the end results. The reason why this is a problem is because Resolve increases the base SKL and SPD stats of 40 and 37 rather than the blessed (+5 to all statistics) stats of 45 and 42.

Pavise does run off the SKL stat too, unlike Miracle which runs off the LUK stat which doesn’t get inflated by Resolve.
Take Guard for example with it’s 45% chance of activation. Chance of getting past guard is 1.00-.45= .55 or 55%. Disarm has a 22% chance of activation. 1.00-.22=.78 or 78%. Multiply those two together .55*.78=.429 or 42.9%. You can multiply the inverse activation rates of Guard, Disarm (assuming you can actually disarm the enemy), and Corrosion (assuming the enemy’s weapon can be destroyed in this activation) together to get the chance of the opponent’s attack or counter attack avoiding being negated outright. Ike can get off 1 or 2 attacks with Ragnell depending on if Adept activates. If he is using the Brave Sword or Brave Axe he can get 2 or 4 attacks instead thanks to the stacking effect of the “Brave” effect and Adept. This improves survivability massively all thanks to Vantage which allows Ike to launch his counter attack before his enemy launches their normal attack. You then take the low chance for an enemy attack to get through and multiply it by the chance of Pavise failing to activate (55%) to get the chance to hit Ike. You then account for the chance of Miracle failing to save Ike from a fatal blow (65%) and then you realize why IS put arbitrary restrictions on how many skills Ike could have. This example doesn’t account for the significant increases in the activation rates of all these skills going off when under the effects of Resolve or the fact that Ike is capable of dodging attacks regardless of skills activating. You also have to account for Aether, Renewal, Imbue, and the use of Elixirs for healing that make Ike quite exceptional at tanking punishment.



@ Kirby Dragons Kirby Dragons Munomario777 isn’t human. Due to his nonstop fanboying of Sonic he can be only one person, Amy Rose. Sorry Amy, you’ll never be in Smash.

I just need to analyze Zero Suit Samus, Little Mac, Mega Man, Pac-Man, the Kirby characters and the Kid Icarus characters.
 
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Munomario777

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The Master Emerald has the godly power, Sonic does not.
The Super Emeralds (which Sonic has) are infused with the Master Emerald's power.
I asked for a link of Bolt of Lightning in action to see if it lives up to it’s title. Few thing in fiction do.
You can ask Dryn for that; he brought it up.
SEGA retconned a mainline Sonic game!? When did this happen?
Sonic 2006's events were erased at the end of the game.
Doesn’t that bending need to occur over an extended period of time compared to the sheer force that Giant Mario will apply in fractions of a second?
I'm not an expert on the subject, so I'm not in a position to say.
Yes the empty Bottle is more powerful than a Hooks
According to the wikis you can play “Tennis” with the Biggoron’s Sword, Megaton Hammer, Bug Catching Net, and Shovel as well.
Are you really going to believe that a butterfly net is more powerful than a sharp metal hook?
What makes you think Sonic could harness the Chaos Emeralds power in a way to harm let alone kill Ganondorf when he can’t even go back in time without assistance? He isn’t even as good as Shadow in this field.
A) Shadow can't time travel by himself either.
B) That was with one Chaos Emerald, not seven Super Emeralds.
C) Link can't go back in time by using the Mastef Sword, but that never stopped him.
The quote block that I was unable to respond to individually.

  • You have to provide evidence why they won’t work like normal.
  • Which will happen because of Vantage.
  • Vantage time!
  • It only works on a specific tribe of Beasts because wild Animals are smart enough to stay away from Ike so we couldn’t test it on them. It works perfectly fine on the transformation locked, insane Feral Ones http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Feral_One.
  • My goof, but those two can screw up a large portion of the cast.
  • They will significantly improve the activation rates of the other skills and sharply increase Ike’s damage output due to significantly more frequent triple damage critical hits.
  • An unbreakable sword that can fire devastating accurate and fast shockwaves out to bow user range, plus a small boost to physical defense.
  • hot. It can hold Fairies, Ghosts (Poes), and Blue Fire. It is definitely magical.
  • You need to prove that they do. You're making the assertion.
  • ^
  • ^
  • Either way, it's just a simple attack buff.
  • Mhm.
  • I see.
  • So, a sword with shockwaves and a few buffs then.
  • ?
Has Sonic ever managed to use a holy attribute attack powered by the emeralds?
There's nothing with a "holy attack" requirement, but since he's using a holy power source, I think it's rather safe to assume.
At the end of the day, what started in the storybook stayed in the storybook.
Except that rule clearly doesn't apply. The Genie of the Ring (whatever her name was) came out of the storybook. I don't see why we should restrict it like this.
Sonic has a tendency to talk smash to his opponent rather than murder him straight off the bat. We are talking about canonical Sonic, not Munomario777 in Sonic’s body. He will wind up talking smack than getting destroyed by Mewtwo before he finishes his first sentence.
This is a question of who's strongest, not whose attitude is more beneficial. Either way, Sonic wouldn't just get blind sighted like that. His reaction time is on point, he can sense danger in his quills, and he doesn't hesitate to use his full power when it's necessary.
Cutscenes>Gameplay>Lore in that order.
Except when working with high speeds etc, gameplay often misrepresents them.
One should also consider throwing out freakishly high or low end feats as well.
Why is that? I don't think we should ignore canonical statements because they're "too good".
I put cutscenes at the top because that is supposed to be the true representation of their abilities in the plot. Lore is at the bottom because one should use the show, don’t tell rule in media (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Show,_don't_tell and http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ShowDontTell) because it leaves less room for the imagination to blow feats out of proportion.
"Show, don't tell" is a method of writing/game making/etc, not a hierarchy of canonicity.
 

Reckless Godwin 2.0

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Sonic 2006's events were erased at the end of the game.

Are you really going to believe that a butterfly net is more powerful than a sharp metal hook?

  • You need to prove that they do. You're making the assertion.
  • ^
  • ^
  • Either way, it's just a simple attack buff.
  • Mhm.
  • I see.
  • So, a sword with shockwaves and a few buffs then.
  • ?

There's nothing with a "holy attack" requirement, but since he's using a holy power source, I think it's rather safe to assume.

Except that rule clearly doesn't apply. The Genie of the Ring (whatever her name was) came out of the storybook. I don't see why we should restrict it like this.

This is a question of who's strongest, not whose attitude is more beneficial. Either way, Sonic wouldn't just get blind sighted like that. His reaction time is on point, he can sense danger in his quills, and he doesn't hesitate to use his full power when it's necessary.

Except when working with high speeds etc, gameplay often misrepresents them.

Why is that? I don't think we should ignore canonical statements because they're "too good".

"Show, don't tell" is a method of writing/game making/etc, not a hierarchy of canonicity.
Oh.

Yes, considering that Bug Catching Net can also capture fairies.
My computer bugged out and dropped the text for the Hookshot and beyond. It meant to say the Bottles were capable of holding Fairies, Ghosts (Poes), and magical Blue Fire http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/Blue_Fire. Those are clearly no ordinary Bottles.

Game Mechanics are all I need. It is you who has to prove that annoying mammal is above them.

A computer goof.

You know what they say about people who make assumptions.

Does that mean Sonic has to carry the storybook into battle?

How do you react to the speed of thought. How is he going to realize that he has to use his full power? Sensing danger doesn’t help you with the avoiding danger part, it only puts you in an alert state.

Cool, than Ike can dodge lightning with ease and Kirby's Warp Star goes at Warp speed. Trust me you don’t want to go down that route.

Because they don’t make sense when compared to their normal capabilities.

As I said it gives a more accurate understanding of their capabilities.

I’m going to enjoy putting Sonic as low as possible on my tier list! Hahahahaha!
 

Munomario777

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Yes, considering that Bug Catching Net can also capture fairies.
My computer bugged out and dropped the text for the Hookshot and beyond. It meant to say the Bottles were capable of holding Fairies, Ghosts (Poes), and magical Blue Fire http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/Blue_Fire. Those are clearly no ordinary Bottles.
Do these produce about two tons of force when activated?
Game Mechanics are all I need.
Game mechanics are being excluded.
It is you who has to prove that annoying mammal is above them.
He can produce 300+ tons of force simply by ramming into his opponent.
You know what they say about people who make assumptions.
Some assumptions are required for conversations like these.
Does that mean Sonic has to carry the storybook into battle?
I don't see why he should (things from the storybook can be brought into the real world), but he could if need be.
How do you react to the speed of thought.
With the speed of lightning. How fast are Mewtwo's attacks?
How is he going to realize that he has to use his full power? Sensing danger doesn’t help you with the avoiding danger part, it only puts you in an alert state.
And if Sonic is alert, he won't taunt Mewtwo.
Cool, than Ike can dodge lightning with ease and Kirby's Warp Star goes at Warp speed. Trust me you don’t want to go down that route.
When does Ike dodge lightning? The "warp speed" statement is from Smash, which gets overruled by the Kirby series games due to the hierarchy.
Because they don’t make sense when compared to their normal capabilities.
A lot of things don't "make sense" here.
As I said it gives a more accurate understanding of their capabilities.
The links you provided are irrelevant to this.
 

Kirby Dragons

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There's a difference.
A) Kirby is building up energy for this. Spinning things possess energy, and I'd imagine that energy would be needed to make something explode.
B) Then how can Kirby move it?
A) I didn't see where he built up energy.
B) By taking control over the midsection.
How is a piece of paper becoming unfolded relevant to Marx launching off into space?
It explains why Marx's wings spread out.
It showed an area inside the explosion.
It only showed one area. There are many others it didn't show.
Then where is the proof?
The attacks did the most damage to Kirby.
Kirby is barely shrinking. Shrinking and moving are similar (if anything, moving objects would be harder to track), and Samus has taken care of the latter.
Moving enemies and shrinking enemies are different. Moving enemies are always a wide target, while shrinking enemies are less of a target.
It does. If Kirby hasn't been shown to inhale an electrical attack similar to Samus's, then we can't assume that he could.
What about Samus' attack makes it difficult to inhale?
If it can't really be proven either way, then we should make the reasonable assumption and say that it's an alteration of one of Kirby's attacks from the games.
How is that a reasonable assumption?
He is, but only by a few inches.
How does it mean he wasn't launched up?
It didn't seem like it.
Well, sorry.
Ah, yes. I was more getting to the integration of lying into human nature. This could be as a result of Olimar seeing the scan (which he believed to be correct), and then writing the results in his journal so that people wouldn't judge him for being wrong and contradicting the scan.
Who would judge him for doing that?
More a result of the bomb being activated.
Since when can a bomb be activated?
More like fire coming into contact with an explosive substance (i.e. a barrel of gunpowder).
That's still a result of the fire.
Well, it's not gonna cut it.
Well, sorry.
A) Even if they're getting destroyed, they may still believe that it would be easy to take down Kirby with their regular attacks (as he is still only a pink puffball) and don't bother with the more powerful ones. A certain degree of stupidity would also cause this. Game balance makes it so it's not too hard for the player to win, and more powerful attacks might cause too much challenge.
B) Prove it.
A) The attacks they're seen using in the battles don't look like "they don't bother" to me. I still don't see how any degree of stupidity would cause it. EX bosses are supposed to be difficult (no game balance), and they use the same attacks.
B) Crash, Paint, and Mike don't drain energy. Neither do Hammer Flip or Hammer Throw. Same applies with the Super Abilities/Final Weapons.
A) Does this occur with other speed-enhancing moves?
B) Why not?
A) Yes.
B) Asking a trainer something isn't an effect.
How so? If anything, I'd expect the invincible thing to be more protected than the non-invincible thing.
There's no invincibility involved in the latter, so there's not a comparison.
Prove that a non-visible variation would change it from escape velocity to a few inches to the side.
Hitting things hard in certain places can launch them in certain directions. You aren't able to see where certain attacks actually hit the most.
In the case that a clone is "pretty much" the thing they're cloned from, as you put it.
If they don't show any significant differences, then yes.
I remember them happening at around the same time.
I didn't see him hit the platform at all, in the area of the video I was talking about.
Unless the wonders of biology prevent them from getting sucked in.
It's more likely that he doesn't have them at all.
Prove that they're the same ones that destroy planets (or whatever it was).
They're both used by the bosses to attack things, and both contain much force.
Not necessarily. We're full of energy that food gives us when we eat it, and yet we're not damaged.
If the energy hits us, it will.
A) Oh, weren't we discussing the Star Spit? Anyway, Water Kirby's attacks can't hit at all angles at once, can they?
B) And?
A) He creates giant waves.
B) That's why it's removed.
A) It does if they disappear before he can do so (which is likely if Bowser keeps hitting him).
B) And Bowser follows him.
A) Keeps hitting him with what?
B) He's far too slow.
If we're combining attributes, then the sleeping upon gaining the ability would still apply.
If we do that, we have to give the Power Bomb charge time. It doesn't matter that much anyways, because Kirby can wake up instantly, while Bowser can't. His wake is also an attack.
A-B) Discussed above.
C) How so? I asked why Kirby cannot enjoy the charging, and you gave no real proof.
C) The proof was that charging isn't enjoyable.
When he sliced it in half.
What are you referring to, exactly?
Unless he has halfway decent aim. Either way, he'd likely be hitting the flat end (he's punching from the side).
Actually, he's punching from the front.
Prove that they do. You made the original assertion of energy attacks canceling out.
Except it's not my assertion that's being questioned here; it's yours.
Prove that it's a game mechanic.
There's no logical reason for it.
You're saying that Kirby is moving at Mach 5 in the clip. Kirby is only stated to move at Mach 5 after charging up, so now you need to prove that he charges up.
I didn't say that he moved at Mach 5 in the clip; you said that he didn't. It's your assertion, so prove it.
A) Isn't the cornering the reason that you brought it up?
B) Do you have a video of this?
A) I brought it up because he dashed forward quickly, like Jet Dash.
B) No.
And Octacon isn't in space, like the island.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning
You said that while Mario was shooting at Kirby, he could escape. If the fireball is as quick as it is, Kirby won't be doing that; instead, he will be getting turned into gold.
The fireball is small and easy to avoid. Also, no counter for switching out of stone form to destroy the fireball. It would also hurt Mario and knock the power-up out of him.
A Brick Block has less mass than two Brick Blocks. One has less mass than two, and so there is less mass that must be converted into gold.
Bowser has more mass than two Brick Blocks. There is more mass that must be converted into gold. Bowser can be converted into gold. Therefore, Gold Flower doesn't rely on mass.
Does it really? In that case, that would only help Mario here.
Even if Mario did turn Kirby into gold, it wouldn't defeat him. Bowser always comes back, so why wouldn't Kirby?
Prove that it would produce enough force to damage Mario.
It has more than 3.5 tons of force; Mario has been hurt by much less.
It's certainly not fast by any stretch of the word.
Maybe not fast, but fast enough.
Prove that this is the case for the Wing Cap.
Wing Mario Over the Rainbow.
Any human would die from an explosion (such as that of a Bob-Omb), but Mario doesn't.
Point?
Where is Kirby exactly?
Behind Mario's foot.
Do you have a video of this?
Thus changing the list and its contents, number of entries, etc,
Except we aren't talking about any of those things; we're talking about the abilities themselves.
It's a group of items. It's not necessary to list them all off individually since they're collectively referred to as "Mega Stones".
If they're collective, that makes them one item in terms of Magic Room.
It depends on the wheel and the cardboard. Anyway, I don't believe this is relevant anymore, is it?
Nope, not really.
Lumas transform into galaxies, and (either because the Lumas turn into the black holes themselves or they appear) there are black holes for Rosalina to use.
Correct.
So let's say that a robot has two stun guns in, say, its right arm. They have different strengths, and run on different batteries. These stun guns both come from the arm of the robot and use the same type of energy, yet they use different sources for that energy. The same can be said for Pokemon.
It's that the energy is absorbed into the stun guns, rather than the robot itself.
You did in the last sentence. You just added the word "bonus".
By adding "bonus", I changed the meaning, and made it a different argument.
Because doing so is unproved speculation.
It's not unproved. Kirby takes control of things the size of Sonic's midsection.
No, he's moving while shrunken.
He'd have to wait until he's completely shrunken, or he wouldn't fit.
Several pages ago.
The boost (let alone an object moving at the speed of lightning) can cross large distances in practically no time at all.
Can the Boost cross the distance between Sonic and Kirby?
I eat a banana sandwich, and at that moment my chair collapses. Does that mean that banana sandwiches cause my chair to collapse? No. It's a coincidence.
Eating and falling aren't the same action.
Observations are when you see when something happens, not when you see a description. Otherwise, I've observed the death of Abraham Lincoln.
In one stack they might, but how many does it take to equal that amount?
The width of each Pikmin is about half an inch, so 14.
Prove that they were no threat, then.
They were Bulborbs; Olimar takes the things out easily many times before.
I believe it's near the end of the game. It's the one talking about the final boss.
You mean this?
Pain =/= damage.
That isn't true in Pikmin.
We have no evidence that it's done by observation.
Olimar's journal.
You have yet to prove that compressed water balls deflect each other.
If compressed water balls don't pass through nets, they can't pass through things. If they don't pass through things, they deflect each other.
No. Do you have evidence that they behave the same?
They're all powers in the series.
By becoming intangible, teleporting, or just attacking him.
Inhale is instant, can Rosalina react? How would Rosalina attack if Kirby's in the forcefield?
A) When?
B) Most likely, and if not, she could just tell the Lumas to delay the black holes.
A) In SMG, Mario doesn't get sucked in unless he's in front of or behind the black hole.
B) Lumas can't simply "delay" a black hole.
They're the ones creating the black holes.
Actually, the transformations are generating them. Not the Lumas.
Which Sonic could then move.
It would take great accuracy to move those. They're smaller than other things that Sonic has hit, and there's not any place for them to hit that would move them where Sonic wants them.
He won't exactly win by doing that.
He wouldn't be trying to win at the moment.
Both involve tight circles.
Different methods for creating the circles, however.
We can assume that it's the speed shown, since nothing states otherwise.
The speed shown isn't Sonic's usual speed.
I didn't see any mentioning of pulling teeth in the definition.
Point?
It does; he's turned into a werewolf.
That didn't happen in the video.
Why can a howl not be a war cry?
It can be, but it wasn't here because there wasn't any reason to do a war cry.
This could also be achieved by his willpower (in combination with the Chaos Emeralds if need be).
When has Sonic, with or without the Chaos Emeralds done something like this?
Watch his mouth open as he inhales the bubble, complete with sound effect.
I meant inhaling and exhaling while Sonic's running.
Shadow does.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning
What attack does Kirby survive that also destroys a planet? I mean the attack, not the boss etc.
The boss' attacks.
Are we not discussing the Power Bomb?
I was asking what the other topic we were discussing was.
Then why would it here?
It wouldn't be weakened, it would be reflected.
That was before Dryn calculated his actual running speed.
Actually, it was afterward, but whatever. PK Flash α or β will work here.
I don't see how this relates to a character's durability.
I wasn't talking about a character's durability.
Dolhr Empire's force.
Judge.
A) What does that have to do with anything?
B) I don't see how that look necessitates infinite power.
A) You said that Magolor could have activated the Master Crown partially, except things don't work like that.
B) The power seems to have taken an infinite effect on Magolor.
Which is?
That force does indicate a resistance to effects.
Kirby's attacks could clash with them in some way. Either way, caution is a good thing to practice when dealing with things this powerful.
Neither of those things necessarily ever happen in Kirby.
I meant other than Marx.
Popon and Octacon.
The invincibility power-up makes Sonic, well, invincible, to a similar extent as Super Sonic does (he can walk on lava, for instance).
Mewtwo would be able to outlast that. Also, Magic Room would negate the box needed to provide the power-up.
Then I don't see why difficulty with holding multiple items is relevant.
I didn't say he had difficulty holding multiple items. I said he had difficulty holding any items.
And why should we assume it's being used to when attacking the armor?
Wait, what exactly are you referring to here?
The Master Emerald is holy.
Wouldn't that negate the Chaos Emeralds? Also, does the Master Emerald even grant any attacks?
It's rapid as well.
Hitting once is not rapid.
When do these attacks destroy the universe?
He doesn't use them to, but his stats are universal power, and his attacks have the power of his stats, making the attacks capable of destroying universes.
Wario can be harmed more often than not, so we treat him as non-indestructible since that's more consistent.
Why can't Wario be indestructible here?
Kirby isn't shrinking. Crouching isn't the same as shrinking. Crouching will reduce your surface area, but that's all it'll do.
Which would make Kirby harder to hit.
Your first part is correct. Your second part is invalid and quite contradictory.
How?

"An explosion is a rapid increase in volume and release of energy in an extreme manner, usually with the generation of high temperatures and the release of gases." (Explosion - Wikipedia)
I was talking about when an explosion happened with a bomb.

Please prove that "veritable" is not an intensifier in the sentence.
Veritable is never used as an intensifier in Japan.
I mean, really, it's not like the Japanese speak English anyway.
Definitions don't vary because of language; they vary because of region.
Again, considering "veritable" is often metaphoric and considering the sentence is using a prenominal adjective, it's clear that this is an intensifier.
Veritable is metaphoric only in Britain.

This is an ad hoc hypothesis. A true black hole would spaghettify the contents near Kirby's mouth, especially considering the tidal waves would be magnified from a black hole that small. It wouldn't matter how much control Kirby has over his mouth and his stomach.
Hypernova Kirby's stomach isn't a black hole; it has the suction and force of one. The suction goes outward.
Besides, speaking of Kirby's stomach like a black hole would only prove "black hole" is not to be understood literally.
How?

It's English. I'm still waiting for you to show why this is an issue.
It's British English.
Also, here is an American dictionary for you. The full definition says, "being in fact the thing named and not false, unreal, or imaginary—often used to stress the aptness of a metaphor <a veritable mountain of references>".
Those look like two different definitions to me.

Japanese definitions can be different from other definitions. Maybe we should be looking for the Japanese if you want to play this game.
My definition is used everywhere but Britain, including Japan.
Now, let's assume that the description in the U.S. also shows up in the U.K. Two conflicting definitions. You didn't even address this. That sounds kind of like Americentrism. Since the word is a prenominal adjective, then by grammar alone you're incorrect.
How is that relevant?
 

Munomario777

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There's a difference.
If you're right (and "veritable" means "literal" or something similar), then there is no difference. If you're wrong (and "veritable" is used in the way Dryn is saying), then there's no point in this discussion.
A) I didn't see where he built up energy.
B) By taking control over the midsection.
A) Spinning things are in motion, and motion is a form of energy.
B) In the Baton Kirby clip, we see the enemy that the beam hits become surrounded by some sort of yellow aura, or coating, which seems to mean that Baton Kirby moves things by enveloping them in this. If a midsection is attached to legs, a head, arms, etc, then it can't wrap around it, as those things would obstruct it.
It explains why Marx's wings spread out.
Marx's wings seem more like a hard material than paper (at least, the magenta part).
It only showed one area. There are many others it didn't show.
So why would those be affected when the area we see isn't?
The attacks did the most damage to Kirby.
And do they destroy planets?
Moving enemies and shrinking enemies are different. Moving enemies are always a wide target, while shrinking enemies are less of a target.
Kirby's crouch decreases his height. Since Samus is much taller than Kirby (essentially giving her a bird's eye view), this won't decrease his apparent size much.
What about Samus' attack makes it difficult to inhale?
Seeing as how the beam is made of electricity, it would likely discharge into Kirby's "lips" (or lack thereof) and have the same effect.
How is that a reasonable assumption?
They're both tornadoes.
How does it mean he wasn't launched up?
Because he teleports away instead.
Who would judge him for doing that?
I'm sure it would dent his reputation as an explorer.
Since when can a bomb be activated?
Since things like fuses, blast caps, etc were invented.
That's still a result of the fire.
It's a result of the fire coming into contact with a flammable substance.
Well, sorry.
If you want me to take your argument seriously, you'll have to provide clearer evidence.
A) The attacks they're seen using in the battles don't look like "they don't bother" to me. I still don't see how any degree of stupidity would cause it. EX bosses are supposed to be difficult (no game balance), and they use the same attacks.
B) Crash, Paint, and Mike don't drain energy. Neither do Hammer Flip or Hammer Throw. Same applies with the Super Abilities/Final Weapons.
A) I meant that they don't bother, as in they don't go to the trouble of using their strongest attacks. You'd be surprised at what stupid things people can do. EX bosses are still supposed to be balanced. If Kirby and the planet got destroyed in one hit, it would be too challenging.
A) Yes.
B) Asking a trainer something isn't an effect.
A) Then we can assume that it's increasing speed, no?
B) When is it said that all things that moves entail must be an "effect"?
There's no invincibility involved in the latter, so there's not a comparison.
Invincible things are more durable than non-invincible things.
Hitting things hard in certain places can launch them in certain directions. You aren't able to see where certain attacks actually hit the most.
You haven't proven anything.
If they don't show any significant differences, then yes.
The real Meta Knight doesn't appear from a magic hat/ability.
I didn't see him hit the platform at all, in the area of the video I was talking about.
Could you link it again, then?
It's more likely that he doesn't have them at all.
Things don't think without a brain. We can already see that Kirby has a tongue:

They're both used by the bosses to attack things, and both contain much force.
I could have a pistol and an RPG. Both possess a lot of force, and both are used to attack. Does that mean that they're the same?
If the energy hits us, it will.
And? Your point of "energy causes damage" was disproven by my counterexample.
A) He creates giant waves.
B) That's why it's removed.
A) Does it attack all angles at once?
B) It's always happened whenever Kirby gains a Copy Ability.
A) Keeps hitting him with what?
B) He's far too slow.
A) Whatever attack knocked the ability out of him. It could be punches, claw scratches, etc.
B) What method is Kirby using to move?
If we do that, we have to give the Power Bomb charge time.
That's only in one game, if I'm not mistaken. It's the one-off case. Either way, it wouldn't be that much of a detriment.
It doesn't matter that much anyways, because Kirby can wake up instantly, while Bowser can't. His wake is also an attack.
Do you have a video of this?
C) The proof was that charging isn't enjoyable.
It wasn't proof. It was personal experience that you haven't actually experienced (at least, I'd imagine you haven't experienced charging something in such a manner).
What are you referring to, exactly?
I recall a video clip of Ultra Sword Kirby slicing through a small volcano, to reveal a hidden room inside. Is that what you're referring to?
Actually, he's punching from the front.
Kirby is slicing his arm. His other arm is to the side of that.
Except it's not my assertion that's being questioned here; it's yours.
You made the original assertion. If you don't prove it, there's no reason for me to disprove it.
There's no logical reason for it.
Except for Kirby being in a state of shock, flustered, etc, as shown by his facial expression.
I didn't say that he moved at Mach 5 in the clip; you said that he didn't. It's your assertion, so prove it.
Oh, I was against that. I thought you were bringing it up because it would prove that Kirby could corner well at Mach 5. If not, then I don't see why we're discussing it.
A) I brought it up because he dashed forward quickly, like Jet Dash.
B) No.
A) I see.
B) M'kay.
The island isn't in space, and it's being viewed by a telescope. Things that aren't in space can be viewed by a telescope, so something being viewed by a telescope doesn't imply that it's in space.
The fireball is small and easy to avoid.
It's larger than Kirby, if I'm not mistaken.
Also, no counter for switching out of stone form to destroy the fireball. It would also hurt Mario and knock the power-up out of him.
What attack of Kirby's does this?
Bowser has more mass than two Brick Blocks. There is more mass that must be converted into gold. Bowser can be converted into gold. Therefore, Gold Flower doesn't rely on mass.
Then I don't see why Kirby would be resistant to it.
Even if Mario did turn Kirby into gold, it wouldn't defeat him. Bowser always comes back, so why wouldn't Kirby?
Bowser isn't actually turned into gold. He just falls.
It has more than 3.5 tons of force; Mario has been hurt by much less.
Could you please show your work, then?
Maybe not fast, but fast enough.
I highly doubt it. Kirby's moving extremely slowly, and Mario has plenty of time to fire.
Wing Mario
Over the Rainbow.
"Colonel Steve" isn't a transformation.
Mario clearly has superhuman durability.
Behind Mario's foot.
Then Mario could simply kick Kirby with, say, a side-sweeping kick.
Timestamp please?
Except we aren't talking about any of those things; we're talking about the abilities themselves.
Mega Evolutions change the list by removing the previous ability and adding a new one. Mario power-ups do essentially the same thing.
If they're collective, that makes them one item in terms of Magic Room.
No, they're one group of items. I could say I only like eating fruits, but the statement "I only like one food" would be false; there are many types of fruit.
Nope, not really.
Okay, then.
Okay, then.
It's that the energy is absorbed into the stun guns, rather than the robot itself.
And what if the batteries are contained inside of the robot's torso?
By adding "bonus", I changed the meaning, and made it a different argument.
Which you have yet to prove.
It's not unproved. Kirby takes control of things the size of Sonic's midsection.
See above.
He'd have to wait until he's completely shrunken, or he wouldn't fit.
He shrinks instantaneously.
Several pages ago.
Could you please link to when Kirby dodges something stated to move at lightning speed?
Can the Boost cross the distance between Sonic and Kirby?
Yes.
Eating and falling aren't the same action.
Talking about batteries and longing to see your family aren't the same action.
Observations are when you see when something happens, not when you see a description. Otherwise, I've observed the death of Abraham Lincoln.
Correct. However, if you saw a video feed of his death (if such a thing existed), then you would essentially be observing it.
The width of each Pikmin is about half an inch, so 14.
Which means that Olimar has about seven stacks of Pikmin (100 / 14 = 7). That still leaves plenty of empty space (or at least, areas where only a few Pikmin would be there to stop the bullet).
They were Bulborbs; Olimar takes the things out easily many times before.
I'd imagine that they would still be stressful.
No, I mean this.
That isn't true in Pikmin.
You have yet to prove that.
Olimar's journal.
Isn't solid evidence.
If compressed water balls don't pass through nets, they can't pass through things. If they don't pass through things, they deflect each other.
Water and nets aren't the same thing.
They're all powers in the series.
In that case, both Sonic and Tails can fly because they're both in the same series.
Inhale is instant, can Rosalina react? How would Rosalina attack if Kirby's in the forcefield?
Inhale doesn't have enough range; if Kirby gets close, Rosalina moves away. Rosalina attacks by bringing Kirby near, say, a black hole and releasing him.
A) In SMG, Mario doesn't get sucked in unless he's in front of or behind the black hole.
B) Lumas can't simply "delay" a black hole.
A) Do you have video of this?
B) They could delay the launch.
Actually, the transformations are generating them. Not the Lumas.
And the Lumas are causing the transformations.
It would take great accuracy to move those. They're smaller than other things that Sonic has hit, and there's not any place for them to hit that would move them where Sonic wants them.
Why would Sonic have trouble moving someone's hand?
He wouldn't be trying to win at the moment.
Isn't that sort of the point of the discussion?
Different methods for creating the circles, however.
In the Blue Tornado, Sonic goes fast in ball form. In the Light Speed Attack, Sonic goes fast in ball form.
The speed shown isn't Sonic's usual speed.
When did I ever say that?
You're going beyond what the definition says.
That didn't happen in the video.
Did you not see the werewolf hedgehog walk into the frame about five seconds in?
It can be, but it wasn't here because there wasn't any reason to do a war cry.
He was about to enter a battle.
When has Sonic, with or without the Chaos Emeralds done something like this?
Aside from the Werehog and all, in Sonic Chronicles, Sonic resists mind control by using the power of a Chaos Emerald.
I meant inhaling and exhaling while Sonic's running.
Why is that relevant?
How so?
The boss' attacks.
Show me a specific attack that hit Kirby and also destroyed a planet.
I was asking what the other topic we were discussing was.
Ah. I'm not sure.
It wouldn't be weakened, it would be reflected.
Mirror has never done this.
Actually, it was afterward, but whatever. PK Flash α or β will work here.
That's only a 15% chance.
I wasn't talking about a character's durability.
Isn't that what determines whether or not they survive Mega Mario?
Dolhr Empire's force.
Conquering a continent =/= destroying it.
How much force does it deliver?
A) You said that Magolor could have activated the Master Crown partially, except things don't work like that.
B) The power seems to have taken an infinite effect on Magolor.
A) I don't see why they can't.
B) He doesn't seem particularly "infinite" to me.
That force does indicate a resistance to effects.
How does force indicating a resistance to effects mean that powerful things aren't immune to Miracle/Counter?
Neither of those things necessarily ever happen in Kirby.
Have we seen the bosses use these attacks on Kirby without this happening?
Popon and Octacon.
Those required a bit of buildup, no?
Mewtwo would be able to outlast that.
Unless time is frozen.
Also, Magic Room would negate the box needed to provide the power-up.
True. Sonic would be able to enter his super form, though; it doesn't negate Mega Stones etc.
I didn't say he had difficulty holding multiple items. I said he had difficulty holding any items.
Why is that?
Wait, what exactly are you referring to here?
Shulk using the Monado to reshape the universe.
Wouldn't that negate the Chaos Emeralds?
No, because it's fusing with the Chaos Emeralds to create the Super Emeralds.
Also, does the Master Emerald even grant any attacks?
Yes.
Hitting once is not rapid.
It hits multiple enemies in quick succession.
He doesn't use them to, but his stats are universal power, and his attacks have the power of his stats, making the attacks capable of destroying universes.
Then why don't they when he uses them in battles?
Why can't Wario be indestructible here?
Because he's usually destructible. It's an outlier.
 

Crystanium

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Which would make Kirby harder to hit.
Samus has hit things smaller than Kirby, such as scarabs, burrowers, and ice burrowers. Really, crouching would be one of the most unconventional and risky attempts for anyone.

You said explosions don't necessarily come from bombs, but then you said it did.

Veritable is never used as an intensifier in Japan.
Prove it.

Definitions don't vary because of language; they vary because of region.
But if you're going to talk about language, you might as well go back to the source.

Veritable is metaphoric only in Britain.
You've failed to prove this. Merriam-Webster is American and uses it metaphorically. Your argument is invalid. "Veritable" in the description is a prenominal adjective. Your argument is invalid. All you have to fall back on is, "It's British." I'm not surprised you didn't change your mind.

Hypernova Kirby's stomach isn't a black hole; it has the suction and force of one. The suction goes outward.
Black holes rely on gravity, not suction. To say black holes use suction is like saying the Sun uses suction to pull things into it. Everything with mass produces its own gravity. Humans do, too. If you're familiar with the Schwarzschild radius, you'll know that theoretically, anything can shrink down small enough to become a black hole. If a suction goes outward, it's no longer a suction. It's blowing things away. The opposite of a black hole is a white hole, which pushes things away. Kirby is not stated to have a while hole, either.

"Dryn ate so much, and yet he was still hungry. His stomach was a black hole."

It's British English.
It's English, regardless. If English comes from England, and if "veritable" has its origins in the 15th century, don't you think it makes more sense to use "veritable" the way the English would?

Those look like two different definitions to me.
That's because they are. The next part says it's often metaphoric, something you don't wish to admit. I find it quite odd that whatever the Japanese word is translated to "veritable" was translated to "veritable" in the first place. Why not make it simply and say, "a real black hole"? Probably because it's not literal.

My definition is used everywhere but Britain, including Japan.
Prove it.

How is that relevant?
It's relevant because you're assuming your understanding of the word is the correct one, even if someone from Europe will see otherwise. Saying "veritable" as an intensifier is incorrect all because you think it's the British way of understanding is rather ****ish. It disregards the opinion of another based on their language they had no say in the matter. Show a little more respect for your neighbors. I've already addressed your point several times. All you're supporting yourself on is, "It's British", which you haven't even supported. The fact that I, an American, am using "veritable" in a metaphoric way disproves your "British" hypothesis.
 

Reckless Godwin 2.0

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Game mechanics are being excluded.

And if Sonic is alert, he won't taunt Mewtwo.

When does Ike dodge lightning?
We are talking about Video Game characters here, Game Mechanics are of utmost importance!

How on earth is Sonic supposed to predict when Mewtwo will launch an attack?

Every time he goes into battle with a Thunder Mage/Sage, he either has to endure being hit by lightning bolts or more often than not dodge out of the way.



@ Kirby Dragons Kirby Dragons @ Nerdicon Nerdicon Do you have a link of Meta Knight’s Mach Tornado in action?
Do you have any links on King Dedede’s boss fight capabilities? I’ve only played Kirby’s Dream Land and Kirby’s Adventure and only a few parts of Kirby Super Star due to it’s battery failing.

I hate to bring bad news, but my computer has been freezing multiple times shortly after startup again so it may be on its way out. There are at least a half dozen desktops and some laptops and notebooks in my house but I don’t know which ones work let alone work well and can connect to online. My PS3 wouldn’t make for a viable replacement either (can you even post with a PS3?). If I disappear and don’t return you will know what happened.
 

Munomario777

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We are talking about Video Game characters here, Game Mechanics are of utmost importance!
In that case, should we allow invincibility frames?
How on earth is Sonic supposed to predict when Mewtwo will launch an attack?
You don't need to predict when you can react.
Every time he goes into battle with a Thunder Mage/Sage, he either has to endure being hit by lightning bolts or more often than not dodge out of the way.
How fast are these bolts?
I hate to bring bad news, but my computer has been freezing multiple times shortly after startup again so it may be on its way out. There are at least a half dozen desktops and some laptops and notebooks in my house but I don’t know which ones work let alone work well and can connect to online. My PS3 wouldn’t make for a viable replacement either (can you even post with a PS3?). If I disappear and don’t return you will know what happened.
Oh, yikes! Do you at least have a mobile device to use?
 

Crystanium

Smash Hero
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@ Munomario777 Munomario777
It looks like the magic spell is used to summon lightning from the sky.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geZ11REU9VQ

By the way, another issue with using what we actually see with regard to speed is faulty considering the power beam moves faster in Metroid Prime 3: Corruption than it does in the previous two. This is likely a result of the different engine. I'm trying to figure out what the power beam is.
 

Kirby Dragons

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If you're right (and "veritable" means "literal" or something similar), then there is no difference. If you're wrong (and "veritable" is used in the way Dryn is saying), then there's no point in this discussion.
There is a difference. The Schwarz' black hole is defined as a black hole. Hypernova Kirby's stomach is defined as a veritable black hole. That would mean the latter is more true than the former.

In fact, there are multiple black holes with different properties in Kirby, so we can't just draw a line to any of them.
A) Spinning things are in motion, and motion is a form of energy.
B) In the Baton Kirby clip, we see the enemy that the beam hits become surrounded by some sort of yellow aura, or coating, which seems to mean that Baton Kirby moves things by enveloping them in this. If a midsection is attached to legs, a head, arms, etc, then it can't wrap around it, as those things would obstruct it.
A) So if I spin around, am I charging up energy?
B) Even so, he would still be able to control the sides of whatever he blasts, just not the top. Doesn't make much difference.
Marx's wings seem more like a hard material than paper (at least, the magenta part).
Same applies for things of a hard material.
So why would those be affected when the area we see isn't?
You know, it's possible that the entire planet of Pop Star is just durable as a whole, and that's why there wasn't any damage.
And do they destroy planets?
The destruction of the attacks isn't seen.
Kirby's crouch decreases his height. Since Samus is much taller than Kirby (essentially giving her a bird's eye view), this won't decrease his apparent size much.
Okay. Inhaling is still an option.
Seeing as how the beam is made of electricity, it would likely discharge into Kirby's "lips" (or lack thereof) and have the same effect.
He inhales things made of electricity, and they don't do that. Also, it wouldn't be touching Kirby's lips anyways.
They're both tornadoes.
There's no "specific tornado" that's defined in the games.
Because he teleports away instead.
How do you know the teleport didn't stop the launch? Or that the launch began right after he teleported?
I'm sure it would dent his reputation as an explorer.
To go against what a spaceship said?
Since things like fuses, blast caps, etc were invented.
Do those actually activate the bombs, or detonate them?
It's a result of the fire coming into contact with a flammable substance.
Similarly, cutting is a result of the blade coming into contact with a cuttable substance.

A) I meant that they don't bother, as in they don't go to the trouble of using their strongest attacks.
Why would it give them any trouble?
You'd be surprised at what stupid things people can do.
If they're smart enough to actually attack and plan world domination/destruction, why wouldn't they be smart enough to use their most powerful attacks?
EX bosses are still supposed to be balanced.
They're made to be less balanced than the other bosses. If the regular bosses had attacks that were more powerful, I don't see why the EX bosses wouldn't use them.
If Kirby and the planet got destroyed in one hit, it would be too challenging.
Non-destructible terrain is a game mechanic.
A) Then we can assume that it's increasing speed, no?
B) When is it said that all things that moves entail must be an "effect"?
A) I meant that moves that affect Speed do change the Speed stat. Trick Room doesn't, so it doesn't increase speed.
B) The description of Trick Room suggests that it is the area that does the effect, rather than plain asking.
Invincible things are more durable than non-invincible things.
Point?
You haven't proven anything.
Why not?
The real Meta Knight doesn't appear from a magic hat/ability.
That's not a significant difference.
Could you link it again, then?
Okay.
Things don't think without a brain.
Kirby is an alien, his physiology isn't the same as other creatures.
We can already see that Kirby has a tongue:
It doesn't mean that there are nerves in the tongue.
I could have a pistol and an RPG. Both possess a lot of force, and both are used to attack. Does that mean that they're the same?
They're both guns.
And? Your point of "energy causes damage" was disproven by my counterexample.
Except we aren't talking about energy stored in the body, so that's not relevant here.
A) Does it attack all angles at once?
B) It's always happened whenever Kirby gains a Copy Ability.
A) Pretty much.
B) I always turn off the TV after I watch it. Does that mean I have to turn off the TV to watch it?
A) Whatever attack knocked the ability out of him. It could be punches, claw scratches, etc.
B) What method is Kirby using to move?
A) I doubt those are fast enough to counter Kirby's instant Copy Ability switching.
That's only in one game, if I'm not mistaken. It's the one-off case.
The rule would still cover that.
Either way, it wouldn't be that much of a detriment.
Why not?
Do you have a video of this?
No, sorry.
It wasn't proof. It was personal experience that you haven't actually experienced (at least, I'd imagine you haven't experienced charging something in such a manner).
I didn't see where Kirby was addressing any sort of charging. He hopped right to the fun. That shows that he wasn't charging it.
I recall a video clip of Ultra Sword Kirby slicing through a small volcano, to reveal a hidden room inside. Is that what you're referring to?
I'm referring to this.
falling mountains.PNG

Kirby is slicing his arm. His other arm is to the side of that.
Kirby is on his arm. If Bowser wanted to attack, he'd have to put his arm to his other arm.
You made the original assertion. If you don't prove it, there's no reason for me to disprove it.
Your argument relies on your statement, and is invalid if you don't prove it.
Except for Kirby being in a state of shock, flustered, etc, as shown by his facial expression.
...........There's no logical reason for it.
Oh, I was against that. I thought you were bringing it up because it would prove that Kirby could corner well at Mach 5. If not, then I don't see why we're discussing it.
I was bringing it up to prove he could control it well.
The island isn't in space, and it's being viewed by a telescope. Things that aren't in space can be viewed by a telescope, so something being viewed by a telescope doesn't imply that it's in space.
The island is being cleared up. It's different from what I'm talking about.
It's larger than Kirby, if I'm not mistaken.
It can still be avoided.
What attack of Kirby's does this?
Change Back.
Then I don't see why Kirby would be resistant to it.
He has more health.
Ah.
Could you please show your work, then?
Rockets take 7.2 million pounds to launch off into space. Popon may be smaller and lighter, but rockets never go to the sun and back, so it would end up around the same amount.
I highly doubt it. Kirby's moving extremely slowly, and Mario has plenty of time to fire.
You're downplaying Kirby's speed.
"Colonel Steve" isn't a transformation.
Point?
Mario clearly has superhuman durability.
And yet, he dies from a couple of hammers.
Then Mario could simply kick Kirby with, say, a side-sweeping kick.
Kirby would just attack that foot. Mario would be dead at that point.
Timestamp please?
The clones are there from the beginning.
Mega Evolutions change the list by removing the previous ability and adding a new one. Mario power-ups do essentially the same thing.
So does Reveal Glass, and Magic Room can negate that.
No, they're one group of items. I could say I only like eating fruits, but the statement "I only like one food" would be false; there are many types of fruit.
How does that example tie into this?
And what if the batteries are contained inside of the robot's torso?
Then the robot should be able to use them for either stun gun.
Which you have yet to prove.
I've proved that already.
He shrinks instantaneously.
Do you have a video?
Could you please link to when Kirby dodges something stated to move at lightning speed?
Sure.
Prove it.
Talking about batteries and longing to see your family aren't the same action.
Both of them are expressing/writing.
Correct. However, if you saw a video feed of his death (if such a thing existed), then you would essentially be observing it.
The scanner isn't a video feed, and therefore not an observation.
Which means that Olimar has about seven stacks of Pikmin (100 / 14 = 7). That still leaves plenty of empty space (or at least, areas where only a few Pikmin would be there to stop the bullet).
He wouldn't need Pikmin on all his sides, only a few stacks the front.
I'd imagine that they would still be stressful.
After the first time, they'd get easy. Easy things aren't usually stressful.
No, I mean this.
The end of the entry seemed to look like he wasn't sure whether Louie was the King of Bugs or not.
You have yet to prove that.
Poison deals damage in Pikmin.
Isn't solid evidence.
Why not?
Water and nets aren't the same thing.
In terms of contact, what's the difference?
In that case, both Sonic and Tails can fly because they're both in the same series.
If they could, their flight would both work the same way (if not seen otherwise).
Inhale doesn't have enough range; if Kirby gets close, Rosalina moves away.
Hypernova Kirby has plenty of range. He can suck up Rosalina, too.
Rosalina attacks by bringing Kirby near, say, a black hole and releasing him.
How do you know there would be any black holes close enough? Even if Rosalina could do that, Kirby can teleport away. He can also throw Rosalina into the hole.
A) Do you have video of this?
B) They could delay the launch.
A) I have a picture.
B) Even so, they still couldn't place black holes where they wanted. There wouldn't be a point of Rosalina moving in the first place.
And the Lumas are causing the transformations.
So?
Why would Sonic have trouble moving someone's hand?
He needs to knock it away with an attack.
Isn't that sort of the point of the discussion?
When he wants to win, he'd unsheathe the sword.
In the Blue Tornado, Sonic goes fast in ball form. In the Light Speed Attack, Sonic goes fast in ball form.
That wouldn't necessarily be the same speed.
When did I ever say that?
Earlier.
You're going beyond what the definition says.
I'm using what the definition says to make more statements.
Did you not see the werewolf hedgehog walk into the frame about five seconds in?
Yes, but I didn't see Dark Gaia's influences, which I'm questioning here.
He was about to enter a battle.
He didn't know that.
Aside from the Werehog and all, in Sonic Chronicles, Sonic resists mind control by using the power of a Chaos Emerald.
How powerful would that mind control be, exactly?
Why is that relevant?
You said that he did that.
You used your argument when you said Shadow controlled Chaos Control.
Show me a specific attack that hit Kirby and also destroyed a planet.
I'll show you a lot of them.

Though, if you want something specific, note that Dark Mind (first boss of the third video) corrupted a universe using his evil. He used his evil on Kirby, and Kirby survived it.
Mirror has never done this.
It has reflected projectiles before.
That's only a 15% chance.
Crying (which causes most physical attacks to miss) has an 85% chance.
Isn't that what determines whether or not they survive Mega Mario?
We were talking about how much Falchion could seal.
Conquering a continent =/= destroying it.
It's more then just conquering. A city was destroyed, and ruin was brought to the continent.
How much force does it deliver?
It has the force of Ashera (continental). Lore backs this up, by the way.
A) I don't see why they can't.
B) He doesn't seem particularly "infinite" to me.
A) Same way you can't "partially" activate a TV, a computer, a phone, etc.
B) His appearance seems like the infinite power affected him.
How does force indicating a resistance to effects mean that powerful things aren't immune to Miracle/Counter?
Nothing about the powerful things mean that Miracle and Counter won't work on them, because the force of an attack doesn't indicate a resistance to the effects of Miracle and Counter.
Have we seen the bosses use these attacks on Kirby without this happening?
Yep. The most powerful attacks they use don't do that.
Those required a bit of buildup, no?
Not much, but yes.
Unless time is frozen.
Mewtwo can outlast that too.
True. Sonic would be able to enter his super form, though; it doesn't negate Mega Stones etc.
After Magic Room, Sonic only has one kind of protection, that can be overcome by Mewtwo's beam, thus defeating Sonic.
Why is that?
The shape, size, and joints of his tail.
Shulk using the Monado to reshape the universe.
I was referring to Shulk's basic attacks.
No, because it's fusing with the Chaos Emeralds to create the Super Emeralds.
He still doesn't have any holy attacks.
That's used by Hyper Sonic, who's non-canon.
It hits multiple enemies in quick succession.
Can it hit the same enemy in quick succession?
Then why don't they when he uses them in battles?
Because he isn't hitting the universe, he's hitting a Pokemon.
Because he's usually destructible. It's an outlier.
The Magic Boomerang rule allows things from multiple games.
Samus has hit things smaller than Kirby, such as scarabs, burrowers, and ice burrowers. Really, crouching would be one of the most unconventional and risky attempts for anyone.
See above.

You said explosions don't necessarily come from bombs, but then you said it did.
My bad.

Prove it.
Using "veritable" as an intensifier is something that's only done in United Kingdom.

But if you're going to talk about language, you might as well go back to the source.
I'm talking about regions, not language.

You've failed to prove this. Merriam-Webster is American and uses it metaphorically. Your argument is invalid. "Veritable" in the description is a prenominal adjective. Your argument is invalid. All you have to fall back on is, "It's British." I'm not surprised you didn't change your mind.
I have two sources to fall back on, actually.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/veritable?s=t
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/veritable
Black holes rely on gravity, not suction. To say black holes use suction is like saying the Sun uses suction to pull things into it. Everything with mass produces its own gravity. Humans do, too. If you're familiar with the Schwarzschild radius, you'll know that theoretically, anything can shrink down small enough to become a black hole. If a suction goes outward, it's no longer a suction. It's blowing things away. The opposite of a black hole is a white hole, which pushes things away. Kirby is not stated to have a while hole, either.
The suction appears outside Kirby's body. Also, it's not like Kirby has any insides to spaghettify.
"Dryn ate so much, and yet he was still hungry. His stomach was a black hole."
That's different.

It's English, regardless. If English comes from England, and if "veritable" has its origins in the 15th century, don't you think it makes more sense to use "veritable" the way the English would?
It wouldn't make more sense, because this isn't from England.

That's because they are. The next part says it's often metaphoric, something you don't wish to admit.
I do admit that it's metaphoric, but only people that are British use it that way.
I find it quite odd that whatever the Japanese word is translated to "veritable" was translated to "veritable" in the first place. Why not make it simply and say, "a real black hole"? Probably because it's not literal.
They can spice up their descriptions.

Prove it.
See above.

It's relevant because you're assuming your understanding of the word is the correct one, even if someone from Europe will see otherwise. Saying "veritable" as an intensifier is incorrect all because you think it's the British way of understanding is rather ****ish. It disregards the opinion of another based on their language they had no say in the matter. Show a little more respect for your neighbors. I've already addressed your point several times. All you're supporting yourself on is, "It's British", which you haven't even supported.
I've supported my claim with sources. The intensifier definition isn't incorrect, it's just that the Japanese people don't use that definition. Why would they use a definition only used in the United Kingdom? That makes no sense. The British definition never expanded to other countries, only the word. Other countries use words in different ways. We shouldn't be running on something that isn't used in America or Japan, when analyzing something from America or Japan. British rules don't apply to either country.
The fact that I, an American, am using "veritable" in a metaphoric way disproves your "British" hypothesis.
Using a word in a certain way doesn't make the definition true.
@ Kirby Dragons Kirby Dragons @ Nerdicon Nerdicon Do you have a link of Meta Knight’s Mach Tornado in action?
Here you go.
Do you have any links on King Dedede’s boss fight capabilities? I’ve only played Kirby’s Dream Land and Kirby’s Adventure and only a few parts of Kirby Super Star due to it’s battery failing.
 

Munomario777

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There is a difference. The Schwarz' black hole is defined as a black hole. Hypernova Kirby's stomach is defined as a veritable black hole. That would mean the latter is more true than the former.
"Veritable" can mean multiple things, as Dryn points out. Even if "veritable" means "literal", Schwarz and Hypernova are still on the same level.
In fact, there are multiple black holes with different properties in Kirby, so we can't just draw a line to any of them.
And none of them act like actual black holes.
A) So if I spin around, am I charging up energy?
B) Even so, he would still be able to control the sides of whatever he blasts, just not the top. Doesn't make much difference.
A) Yes.
B) Try holding something in a bag with no bottom, then.
The only "unfolding" I see there is the drawer breaking.
You know, it's possible that the entire planet of Pop Star is just durable as a whole, and that's why there wasn't any damage.
Unless you can prove that, you can't use it here as an argument.
The destruction of the attacks isn't seen.
Then we cannot assume that they can destroy planets.
Okay. Inhaling is still an option.

He inhales things made of electricity, and they don't do that.
Such as?
Also, it wouldn't be touching Kirby's lips anyways.
It'll be very near them, at the very least. Electricity always chooses the path of least resistance, which often means it'll travel the least distance through air to get to the ground. That's why you shouldn't stand in an open field during a thunderstorm; you're the highest thing in the field, and thus closest to the thunder clouds. You're the path of least resistance. Since Kirby's lips are close to the bolt, it would likely be attracted to the lips. Of course, this is assuming that the bolt wouldn't be wider than Kirby's mouth.
There's no "specific tornado" that's defined in the games.
And? I can only find one "type" of tornado that Kirby actually launches (rather than becoming one himself), and those are smaller than the ones seen in the anime. The games and anime contradict one another, so the games take precedence.
How do you know the teleport didn't stop the launch?
How do you know that it did?
Or that the launch began right after he teleported?
Because we see him teleport to the center of the screen, and he's not launched; he's sliced in half.

By the way, I'd like to point out that the launch doesn't occur during the entire Marx boss fight; he's only launched at the very end.
To go against what a spaceship said?
Yes, which the public would be more likely to believe.
Do those actually activate the bombs, or detonate them?
Both.
Similarly, cutting is a result of the blade coming into contact with a cuttable substance.
More specifically, the knife coming in at the right angle and with the correct velocity (and other factors).
Why would it give them any trouble?
Using that kind of energy would likely require more build-up etc, during which they might be vulnerable.
They're made to be less balanced than the other bosses. If the regular bosses had attacks that were more powerful, I don't see why the EX bosses wouldn't use them.
They're not meant to be "less balanced". They're supposed to be balanced to be more challenging. There's a difference.
Non-destructible terrain is a game mechanic.
And? Easily-destructible Kirby isn't.
A) I meant that moves that affect Speed do change the Speed stat. Trick Room doesn't, so it doesn't increase speed.
B) The description of Trick Room suggests that it is the area that does the effect, rather than plain asking.
A) Ah.
B) "The user creates a bizarre area in which slower Pokémon get to move first for five turns." "Getting to move first" sounds like an agreement to me.
If it cannot affect a non-invincible Pokemon, I fail to see how it could affect an invincible hedgehog.
"You just can't see it happening" isn't solid proof that it is happening.
That's not a significant difference.
I'd say being made of magic and being made of... whatever Meta Knight is made of would be a rather large difference.
Kirby gets knocked back, lands ever so slightly on the platform, and jumps to the right. I assume you're talking about the part after Kirby eats the meat.
Kirby is an alien, his physiology isn't the same as other creatures.
Prove that he lacks a brain.
It doesn't mean that there are nerves in the tongue.
Then how does he taste things?
They're both guns.
And they're both attacks, in your case.
Except we aren't talking about energy stored in the body, so that's not relevant here.
It's energy entering the body.
A) Pretty much.
B) I always turn off the TV after I watch it. Does that mean I have to turn off the TV to watch it?
A) Do you have a video?
B) No, but these always happen at the same time, and are direct results of one another. Whenever Kirby does that pose, he's gaining a Copy Ability, and vice-versa.
A) I doubt those are fast enough to counter Kirby's instant Copy Ability switching.
Can he do this while in hitstun (getting knocked back from an attack)?
You didn't respond to B).
The rule would still cover that.
Fair enough.
The charge time isn't that long.
No, sorry.
Then you can't use it as proof.
I didn't see where Kirby was addressing any sort of charging. He hopped right to the fun. That shows that he wasn't charging it.
Why can't the entire charge be fun?
I'm referring to this.
View attachment 56260
"Mountains will fall" doesn't mean much of anything.
Kirby is on his arm. If Bowser wanted to attack, he'd have to put his arm to his other arm.
And why couldn't he do that exactly?
Your argument relies on your statement, and is invalid if you don't prove it.
You're proving that it does have a charge, while my argument is a counter argument to that point. You haven't proven your argument, so there is no reason for me to have to disprove it.
...........There's no logical reason for it.
Did I not just provide one?
I was bringing it up to prove he could control it well.
I see.
The island is being cleared up. It's different from what I'm talking about.
What do you mean, "cleared up"?
It can still be avoided.
By what means?
Change Back.
And he still gets hurt by the fireball, no?
He has more health.
Prove it, then.
Rockets take 7.2 million pounds to launch off into space. Popon may be smaller and lighter, but rockets never go to the sun and back, so it would end up around the same amount.
There's no air resistance to speak of in space, and gravity slingshotting is also a viable propulsion technique, so launching to the sun and back might not be as force-demanding as you might think. Not to mention that the Kirby solar system and our solar system seem to be rather different in terms of scale.
You're downplaying Kirby's speed.
You're "upplaying" Stone Kirby's speed.
Neither is "Wing Mario".
And yet, he dies from a couple of hammers.
Hammers can kill, especially spinning ones.
Kirby would just attack that foot. Mario would be dead at that point.
No, the foot is attacking Kirby. I fail to see how Kirby would kill Mario before he could simply kick.
The clones are there from the beginning.
I don't see them being summoned by the phone.
So does Reveal Glass, and Magic Room can negate that.
Mega Stones are more common than Reveal Glasses.
How does that example tie into this?
Mega Stones : fruits.
Then the robot should be able to use them for either stun gun.
Except the wiring doesn't allow that.
I've proved that already.
With what evidence?
Do you have a video?
Yes.
That seems to be pretty bad aim. If you want to actually hit a moving target, you give it "lead" (that is, you shoot ahead of the target, where it will be rather than where it is).
Prove it.
Do I even need to prove that something moving at hundreds of thousands of miles per hour can cross a distance?
Both of them are expressing/writing.
Point?
The scanner isn't a video feed, and therefore not an observation.
Prove it.
He wouldn't need Pikmin on all his sides, only a few stacks the front.
And what if he's surrounded?

Anyway, I don't believe this is relevant anymore.
After the first time, they'd get easy. Easy things aren't usually stressful.
Deadly things are.
The end of the entry seemed to look like he wasn't sure whether Louie was the King of Bugs or not.
He should have been sure.
Poison deals damage in Pikmin.
And it does in real life as well.
Because it's from an unreliable source.
In terms of contact, what's the difference?
One is solid and one is liquid (or energy).
If they could, their flight would both work the same way (if not seen otherwise).
Point?
Hypernova Kirby has plenty of range.
And plenty of startup time, slugishness, etc.
He can suck up Rosalina, too.
Prove it.
How do you know there would be any black holes close enough?
Because Rosalina would place them strategically.
Even if Rosalina could do that, Kirby can teleport away.
And reappear right next to where he disappeared.
He can also throw Rosalina into the hole.
Unless she blocks it, or simply dodges Kirby's attacks.
A) I have a picture.
B) Even so, they still couldn't place black holes where they wanted. There wouldn't be a point of Rosalina moving in the first place.
A) Which is from a beta build. Either way, they still have great range. If Mario falls anywhere in that stage, he's dead.
B) Why is that?
So the black holes appear here.
He needs to knock it away with an attack.
Or, you know, just move it.
When he wants to win, he'd unsheathe the sword.
And then Sonic takes it away (if he hasn't done that already).
That wouldn't necessarily be the same speed.
Right; the Blue Tornado isn't light speed. However, Sonic could go at higher if he had the technique available to do so.
Quote it, then.
I'm using what the definition says to make more statements.
Which are ungrounded.
Yes, but I didn't see Dark Gaia's influences, which I'm questioning here.
The influence affected Sonic's body instead of his mind. It's like how building a moat around a sandcastle can make the waves flow into the moat instead of ruining the sandcastle.
He didn't know that.
Prove it.
How powerful would that mind control be, exactly?
It can take direct mental control of its target.
You said that he did that.
If he has to inhale to survive underwater, why would he not need to do so regularly?
You used your argument when you said Shadow controlled Chaos Control.
How so?
I'll show you a lot of them.
I'd like a specific attack, and footage of said attack both destroying a planet and hitting Kirby.
Though, if you want something specific, note that Dark Mind (first boss of the third video) corrupted a universe using his evil. He used his evil on Kirby, and Kirby survived it.
"Being evil" isn't a specific attack.
It has reflected projectiles before.
Which isn't the same thing as weakening a Power Bomb.
Crying (which causes most physical attacks to miss) has an 85% chance.
What kind of physical attack?
We were talking about how much Falchion could seal.
Well, I don't see how it applies to what force Falchion can seal, then.
It's more then just conquering. A city was destroyed, and ruin was brought to the continent.
How much force does that equal?
It has the force of Ashera (continental). Lore backs this up, by the way.
And how much is that force?
A) Same way you can't "partially" activate a TV, a computer, a phone, etc.
B) His appearance seems like the infinite power affected him.
A) I can activate "part" of a TV by only using one input. I can activate "part" of a computer by leaving the monitor off. I can activate "part" of a phone by putting on Do Not Disturb.
A) I don't see how a fancy outfit equals infinite power.
Nothing about the powerful things mean that Miracle and Counter won't work on them, because the force of an attack doesn't indicate a resistance to the effects of Miracle and Counter.
Then what does?
Yep. The most powerful attacks they use don't do that.
And are these the attacks that destroy planets (or whatever it was)?
Not much, but yes.
Okay, then.
Mewtwo can outlast that too.
He can't "outlast" being frozen in time. It's happening in an instant from his perspective.
After Magic Room, Sonic only has one kind of protection, that can be overcome by Mewtwo's beam, thus defeating Sonic.
What are you referring to?
The shape, size, and joints of his tail.
He could extend it backwards and make it flat, so that it acts as a sort of makeshift "table". Or he could curl his tail around the object.
I was referring to Shulk's basic attacks.
You (or someone else) said that the Mechon armor has "universal durability" because it can withstand Monado attacks. I said that Back Slash comes from the Monado, and doesn't have universal power.
He still doesn't have any holy attacks.
He has holy-powered attacks.
That's used by Hyper Sonic, who's non-canon.
I guess that depends on how you look at the series. S3&K seems to fit better into the overall canon of the series to me (or at least, it seems to bind the two games together better; where's Tails gone in S3&K?), so I consider it canon.
Can it hit the same enemy in quick succession?
I'd imagine it could. It doesn't happen in gameplay since it destroys Badniks in one hit.
Because he isn't hitting the universe, he's hitting a Pokemon.
Then why should his stats be considered "universal"?
The Magic Boomerang rule allows things from multiple games.
And this is a contradiction, which doesn't fall under that rule.
 

Crystanium

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See above.
I've already supported Samus' weapons traveling the speed of light. Unless Kirby has nanosecond reaction time, he's not surviving.

Using "veritable" as an intensifier is something that's only done in United Kingdom.
You keep saying that, but you haven't proved it.

I'm talking about regions, not language.
It still applies.

Those support what I'm saying as well. The difference is you don't want to admit that "veritable" can be used metaphorically and is often so. It's a prenominal adjective, meaning it must be metaphorical.

The suction appears outside Kirby's body. Also, it's not like Kirby has any insides to spaghettify.
Of course the suction appears outside Kirby's body. The description of hypernova says it "allows him to inhale giant objects". "Kirby's inhale achieves maximum suckitude when he eats a Miracle Fruit and goes Hypernova. He can suck up trees and enemies, move massive blocks, and even inhale parts of some stages." (Nintendo, Kirby: Triple Deluxe) Black holes don't inhale, they don't have any suctioning, and they don't move large objects, at least not in the way Kirby's inhale does. The fact that Kirby doesn't spaghettify further proves my point. So here's all my points, and all you can fall back on is, "It's British." That's a rather indefensible position.

That's different.
This is an assertion.

It wouldn't make more sense, because this isn't from England.
Are you ready to use the Japanese text?

I do admit that it's metaphoric, but only people that are British use it that way.
I used an American dictionary. This is disproved.

They can spice up their descriptions.
They could, they couldn't. What's your point?

I've supported my claim with sources. The intensifier definition isn't incorrect, it's just that the Japanese people don't use that definition.
Prove it. Not that it matters anyway, since the way the the descriptions of hypernova and the way it functions is clearly contradictory to any real black hole.

Why would they use a definition only used in the United Kingdom? That makes no sense. The British definition never expanded to other countries, only the word. Other countries use words in different ways. We shouldn't be running on something that isn't used in America or Japan, when analyzing something from America or Japan. British rules don't apply to either country.
Because they're from the U.K. I'm sure if some whose mother's tongue was German and learned to speak English, that they would use the spelling and grammar of said language. If this same person moved to the U.S. and learned English, then it's more likely they would use American spelling and grammar. But you're failing to see my point. Get the Japanese description of hypernova and have someone translate it or drop the argument regarding the word "veritable". The descriptions of hypernova already support my argument.

Using a word in a certain way doesn't make the definition true.
Good thing languages are fluid.
 
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Nerdicon

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@ Kirby Dragons Kirby Dragons @ Nerdicon Nerdicon Do you have a link of Meta Knight’s Mach Tornado in action?
Do you have any links on King Dedede’s boss fight capabilities? I’ve only played Kirby’s Dream Land and Kirby’s Adventure and only a few parts of Kirby Super Star due to it’s battery failing.
Depends...which tornado? The one he uses in Smash or the screen nuke from KSSU? Dedede is a joke because he flinches for about a second every time he's hit.

I hate to bring bad news, but my computer has been freezing multiple times shortly after startup again so it may be on its way out. There are at least a half dozen desktops and some laptops and notebooks in my house but I don’t know which ones work let alone work well and can connect to online. My PS3 wouldn’t make for a viable replacement either (can you even post with a PS3?). If I disappear and don’t return you will know what happened.
I'm sorry to hear that, hope you can find a replacement soon!
 

Kirby Dragons

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Dedede is a joke because he flinches for about a second every time he's hit.
He doesn't do that most of the time. I also don't consider defeating Galacta Knight, Dark Meta Knight, and Queen Sectonia a joke.
"Veritable" can mean multiple things, as Dryn points out. Even if "veritable" means "literal", Schwarz and Hypernova are still on the same level.
Except Hypernova is the only thing black hole in Kirby that has been defined as literal, so it's on the highest level.
And none of them act like actual black holes.
Point?
A) Yes.
B) Try holding something in a bag with no bottom, then.
A) Kinetic energy doesn't blow things up, so not really any comparison.
B) I can hold something in my hand, that has no bottom. A closer comparison than a bag, because my hand and the beam both squeeze to the object.
The only "unfolding" I see there is the drawer breaking.
The doors come open.
Unless you can prove that, you can't use it here as an argument.
The video proves it.
Then we cannot assume that they can destroy planets.
Except we can, because they are from planetbusters.
An electrified Sparky, for example.
It'll be very near them, at the very least. Electricity always chooses the path of least resistance, which often means it'll travel the least distance through air to get to the ground. That's why you shouldn't stand in an open field during a thunderstorm; you're the highest thing in the field, and thus closest to the thunder clouds. You're the path of least resistance. Since Kirby's lips are close to the bolt, it would likely be attracted to the lips. Of course, this is assuming that the bolt wouldn't be wider than Kirby's mouth.
The inhalation is closer than Kirby's lips.
And? I can only find one "type" of tornado that Kirby actually launches (rather than becoming one himself), and those are smaller than the ones seen in the anime. The games and anime contradict one another, so the games take precedence.
The games don't contradict the anime. Nothing in the games says that Kirby can't make that tornado.
How do you know that it did?
I don't, but you can't say that it didn't, because you have no evidence.
Because we see him teleport to the center of the screen, and he's not launched; he's sliced in half.
The second teleport could've stopped the launch.
By the way, I'd like to point out that the launch doesn't occur during the entire Marx boss fight; he's only launched at the very end.
He must've been weakened from the previous attacks, and was unable to resist the launch because of this.
Yes, which the public would be more likely to believe.
How?
Okay.
More specifically, the knife coming in at the right angle and with the correct velocity (and other factors).
Right.
Using that kind of energy would likely require more build-up etc, during which they might be vulnerable.
Except they use attacks with lots of build-up in the fights.
They're not meant to be "less balanced". They're supposed to be balanced to be more challenging. There's a difference.
Right. The initial fights aren't supposed to be hard. The EX fights are supposed to be hard. The EX fights have the same attacks. Therefore, "The strongest attacks would make the fight too hard." isn't a valid argument.
And? Easily-destructible Kirby isn't.
He's not easily destructible, or one attack would kill him.
B) "The user creates a bizarre area in which slower Pokémon get to move first for five turns." "Getting to move first" sounds like an agreement to me.
Why would someone agree to letting you get an advantage if they're trying to defeat you?
If it cannot affect a non-invincible Pokemon, I fail to see how it could affect an invincible hedgehog.
There is something in the way of the non-invincible Pokemon that specifically stops Disable/Skill Swap. An invincible hedgehog doesn't have something in the way to specifically stop Disable/Skill Swap.
"You just can't see it happening" isn't solid proof that it is happening.
Actually, you can see quite clearly that Kirby hits the enemies in different spots, thus launching them in different places.
I'd say being made of magic and being made of... whatever Meta Knight is made of would be a rather large difference.
He's made from magic, not made of magic.
Kirby gets knocked back, lands ever so slightly on the platform, and jumps to the right.
He stops in mid-air.
I assume you're talking about the part after Kirby eats the meat.
Correct.
Prove that he lacks a brain.
There is a portal in his mouth that would shut down a brain. If Kirby had one, he wouldn't be functional because it's getting blocked.
Then how does he taste things?
With his alien tongue.
And they're both attacks, in your case.
The bullets are. Not the guns.
It's energy entering the body.
We're talking about energy striking the body.
A) Do you have a video?
B) No, but these always happen at the same time, and are direct results of one another. Whenever Kirby does that pose, he's gaining a Copy Ability, and vice-versa.
A) Yes.
B) It looks like Kirby's just sporting the ability rather than it being a result of the Copy Ability.
Can he do this while in hitstun (getting knocked back from an attack)?
You didn't respond to B).
A) I believe so.
B) His feet.
The charge time isn't that long.
It's about a second, which is enough time to attack and cancel the charge.
Then you can't use it as proof.
Can't use what as proof?
Why can't the entire charge be fun?
Charging isn't used for fun.
"Mountains will fall" doesn't mean much of anything.
It means he can make mountains fall.
And why couldn't he do that exactly?
He could, but his fist would get cut.
You're proving that it does have a charge, while my argument is a counter argument to that point. You haven't proven your argument, so there is no reason for me to have to disprove it.
Simply stating something is not a valid counterargument.
Did I not just provide one?
You provided a reason, but not a logical one. When does shock stop people from moving?
What do you mean, "cleared up"?
Made so that it isn't a blur to the eyes.
By what means?
Jumping.
And he still gets hurt by the fireball, no?
No; the attack would destroy the fireball.
Prove it, then.
Kirby takes six hits, while Mario enemies take one.
There's no air resistance to speak of in space, and gravity slingshotting is also a viable propulsion technique, so launching to the sun and back might not be as force-demanding as you might think. Not to mention that the Kirby solar system and our solar system seem to be rather different in terms of scale.
Even so, simply sending the thing into space in the first place still takes at least thousands of pounds.
You're "upplaying" Stone Kirby's speed.
In Kirby, Stone Kirby can jump over things that move. That's essentially what he'd be doing here.
Neither is "Wing Mario".
A pattern in Mario proves that Wing Mario is a transformation.
Hammers can kill, especially spinning ones.
They might injure at most, but not kill.

Bob-ombs are small. Same goes with their explosions. Besides, dying after being hit with two Bob-ombs is not "superhuman durability".
No, the foot is attacking Kirby.
Kirby is attacking the foot as well.
I fail to see how Kirby would kill Mario before he could simply kick.
One hit on the stationary foot + one hit on the attacking foot = dead Mario.
I don't see them being summoned by the phone.
Watch the Dark Mind video I posted earlier.
Mega Stones are more common than Reveal Glasses.
See below.
Mega Stones : fruits.
Mega Stones and fruits are both major categories, with minor items inside of them. A piece of, say, Gardevoirite, would count as 0.02 towards Magic Room because it's so minor, while Reveal Glass counts and 1 because it's a lot more major. Each individual Mega Stone would add up to 1, while Reveal Glass is also 1, so Reveal Glass isn't an outlier.
Except the wiring doesn't allow that.
I'd say that it would, if a robot was built like that.
With what evidence?
That the "bonus" in "bonus cutscene" means that it's extra, and not meant for story.
Okay. Still, his closeness to Kirby would lead to a weak attack, since he can't accelerate.
That seems to be pretty bad aim. If you want to actually hit a moving target, you give it "lead" (that is, you shoot ahead of the target, where it will be rather than where it is).
That happened a couple seconds later.
Do I even need to prove that something moving at hundreds of thousands of miles per hour can cross a distance?
The Boost is temporary, so yes.
That it's obviously not a coincidence.
Prove it.
Scanners don't provide video.
And what if he's surrounded?
The other rows of Pikmin adjust.
Anyway, I don't believe this is relevant anymore.
Me either.
Deadly things are.
They don't have a deadly sense if you've defeated them countless times. For example, if someone has taken poison a countless amount of times without dying, another bottle won't frighten him.
He should have been sure.
Yet, since he wasn't, the entry can't determine whether Olimar is usually right or not.
And it does in real life as well.
A punch, then.
Because it's from an unreliable source.
If humans are unreliable sources, then everything that you and I say is false, and there's no point of debating.
One is solid and one is liquid (or energy).
If water was compressed, it would have solidified properties, and things wouldn't pass through it.
That abilities from the same universe have the same limitations.
And plenty of startup time, sluggishness, etc.
No, not really.
Prove it.
It's a veritable black hole.
Because Rosalina would place them strategically.
A) Since when can she place black holes where she wants him?
B) That would leave her undeniably vulnerable.
And reappear right next to where he disappeared.
He's teleported further than that.
Unless she blocks it, or simply dodges Kirby's attacks.
You can't exactly "block" a throw, and Jet Kirby would be able to move faster than she can dodge.
A) Which is from a beta build. Either way, they still have great range. If Mario falls anywhere in that stage, he's dead.
B) Why is that?
A) Okay. In that case, if there's a black hole that is close enough to Kirby to suck him up, Rosalina will be sucked up too.
B) The black hole wouldn't necessarily appear near her.
So the black holes appear here.
How does that mean that the Lumas/Rosalina can place them?
Or, you know, just move it.
When has he "just moved" something when time was frozen?
And then Sonic takes it away (if he hasn't done that already).
And Marth would take it back. He has other swords as well.
Right; the Blue Tornado isn't light speed. However, Sonic could go at higher if he had the technique available to do so.
Right.
Quote it, then.
It takes less than a second, and again, with a higher speed, this time would be greatly reduced.
Which are ungrounded.
How?
The influence affected Sonic's body instead of his mind. It's like how building a moat around a sandcastle can make the waves flow into the moat instead of ruining the sandcastle.
So his mind deflects influences to his body?
Prove it.
A) He didn't see the area where the enemies were when he howled.
B) The enemies appeared from almost nowhere.
It can take direct mental control of its target.
Same applies for the Darksphere.
If he has to inhale to survive underwater, why would he not need to do so regularly?
Good question.
Me: Meaning that Shadow doesn't have complete control either.
You: He has enough control to freeze time etc.
Me: Freezing time is the effect of Chaos Control, that wouldn't mean he controls the move any.
You: Shadow does.
I'd like a specific attack, and footage of said attack both destroying a planet and hitting Kirby.
See below.
"Being evil" isn't a specific attack.
Then how did it corrupt a universe?
Which isn't the same thing as weakening a Power Bomb.
So it won't weaken, but it will reflect.
What kind of physical attack?
Any kind. Examples from the game include punching, bats, and guns.
Well, I don't see how it applies to what force Falchion can seal, then.
It sealed attacks from the army, and the army is City Level+, so Falchion can seal attacks that can destroy cities.
How much force does that equal?
A petajoule (megaton).
And how much is that force?
A yottajoule (petaton).
A) I can activate "part" of a TV by only using one input. I can activate "part" of a computer by leaving the monitor off. I can activate "part" of a phone by putting on Do Not Disturb.
A) I don't see how a fancy outfit equals infinite power.
A) All of those still use the same amount of power when activated. Plus, none of that is partial activation; it's just using or not using some of the features.
B) His appearance has been altered infinitely.
Then what does?
Whether it's an attack or not. Or, in Counter's case, if the attack does enough damage to KO them.
And are these the attacks that destroy planets (or whatever it was)?
Presumably.
He can't "outlast" being frozen in time. It's happening in an instant from his perspective.
Time freezing is temporary.
What are you referring to?
You mean Sonic's protection?
He could extend it backwards and make it flat, so that it acts as a sort of makeshift "table".
Can he (or anyone, for that matter) do that?
Or he could curl his tail around the object.
It's rather short for that.
You (or someone else) said that the Mechon armor has "universal durability" because it can withstand Monado attacks. I said that Back Slash comes from the Monado, and doesn't have universal power.
Except Back Slash does have universal power.
He has holy-powered attacks.
Which aren't canon.
I guess that depends on how you look at the series. S3&K seems to fit better into the overall canon of the series to me (or at least, it seems to bind the two games together better; where's Tails gone in S3&K?), so I consider it canon.
Yuji Naka has already classified it as non-canon.
I'd imagine it could. It doesn't happen in gameplay since it destroys Badniks in one hit.
What about the bosses?
Then why should his stats be considered "universal"?
They represent his power, and Arceus has universal power.
And this is a contradiction, which doesn't fall under that rule.
Actually, it does. The games contradict each other when it comes to the Magic Boomerang, but everything it's done has been incorporated.
I've already supported Samus' weapons traveling the speed of light. Unless Kirby has nanosecond reaction time, he's not surviving.
Samus still has to raise her cannon to fire the beam.

You keep saying that, but you haven't proved it.
It's been proven by dictionaries that I linked.

It still applies.
Regions use definitions, not languages, so it doesn't still apply.

Those support what I'm saying as well. The difference is you don't want to admit that "veritable" can be used metaphorically and is often so. It's a prenominal adjective, meaning it must be metaphorical.
It can be used metaphorically. I admit that. However, it's undeniably unlikely that "veritable" in that description was used metaphorically, because the Japanese are known for using a different definition, and do so 99% (if not 100%) of the time.

Of course the suction appears outside Kirby's body. The description of hypernova says it "allows him to inhale giant objects". "Kirby's inhale achieves maximum suckitude when he eats a Miracle Fruit and goes Hypernova. He can suck up trees and enemies, move massive blocks, and even inhale parts of some stages." (Nintendo, Kirby: Triple Deluxe) Black holes don't inhale, they don't have any suctioning, and they don't move large objects, at least not in the way Kirby's inhale does. The fact that Kirby doesn't spaghettify further proves my point. So here's all my points, and all you can fall back on is, "It's British." That's a rather indefensible position.
The inhale is made to represent the gravity of a black hole. We don't see what happens to things that Hypernova Kirby swallows, so his stomach could very well spaghettify. How does Hypernova differ in moving large objects from a black hole?
This is an assertion.
Which is proved by dictionaries.

Are you ready to use the Japanese text?
I would, but I couldn't find the text.
I used an American dictionary. This is disproved.
I used two American dictionaries. Two sources > one source.

They could, they couldn't. What's your point?
That using "veritable" instead of "true" or "real" spices up the description.

Prove it. Not that it matters anyway, since the way the the descriptions of hypernova and the way it functions is clearly contradictory to any real black hole.
http://jisho.org/search/veritable

Because they're from the U.K. I'm sure if some whose mother's tongue was German and learned to speak English, that they would use the spelling and grammar of said language. If this same person moved to the U.S. and learned English, then it's more likely they would use American spelling and grammar.
No one who developed KTD is from the United Kingdom.
But you're failing to see my point. Get the Japanese description of hypernova and have someone translate it or drop the argument regarding the word "veritable". The descriptions of hypernova already support my argument.
How do the descriptions support your argument?
 

Crystanium

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Samus still has to raise her cannon to fire the beam.
Not if Samus already has her arm cannon outward like she does in Metroid: Zero Mission and the Metroid Prime trilogy.

It's been proven by dictionaries that I linked.
You gave different definitions, none of which negated anything I said.

Regions use definitions, not languages, so it doesn't still apply.
It does because Japan isn't an English-speaking country, so not only is it region, it's also language.

It can be used metaphorically. I admit that. However, it's undeniably unlikely that "veritable" in that description was used metaphorically, because the Japanese are known for using a different definition, and do so 99% (if not 100%) of the time.
Note that it's metaphorical the majority of the time. It's likely that "veritable" is metaphorical because of the way Kirby's hypernova behaves.

The inhale is made to represent the gravity of a black hole. We don't see what happens to things that Hypernova Kirby swallows, so his stomach could very well spaghettify. How does Hypernova differ in moving large objects from a black hole?
Your first sentence is an assertion, but we know black holes don't suck or inhale. We know that if it was a real black hole, the objects at Kirby's mouth would have spaghettified if not before they got to his mouth, but would have already done so on contact. You don't seem to understand how black holes work.

Which is proved by dictionaries.
And which I disproved with mine.

I would, but I couldn't find the text.
Then you should drop the argument because you're relying on ignorance.

I used two American dictionaries. Two sources > one source.
Falsification doesn't work that way. If I have observed swans and said, "There aren't any black swans", I would only need to see one black swan to be wrong. So it is here.

That using "veritable" instead of "true" or "real" spices up the description.
You said that, but you didn't support it.

None of these are adjectives, according to your link. Also, are you certain that is the correct Japanese word used in the game?


No one who developed KTD is from the United Kingdom.
Or English for that matter.

How do the descriptions support your argument?
Black holes don't suck or inhale.
 

Munomario777

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Except Hypernova is the only thing black hole in Kirby that has been defined as literal, so it's on the highest level.
Prove that Schwarz's definition was meant to be non-literal.
So we can't treat them like actual black holes.
A) Kinetic energy doesn't blow things up, so not really any comparison.
B) I can hold something in my hand, that has no bottom. A closer comparison than a bag, because my hand and the beam both squeeze to the object.
A) Energy blows things up.
B) Prove that Baton squeezes things.
The doors come open.
Wait, the drawer had doors?
The video proves it.
Which video?
Except we can, because they are from planetbusters.
The Death Star is a planetbuster. Hypothetically of course, let's say I got hit by the Death Star while it was moving at .1 MPH (or another non-lethal speed). Does that mean that my durability is greater than that of a planet?
An electrified Sparky, for example.
How powerful is that electric current?
The inhalation is closer than Kirby's lips.
And?
The games don't contradict the anime. Nothing in the games says that Kirby can't make that tornado.
Except the fact that Kirby simply has no way of doing so in-game.
I don't, but you can't say that it didn't, because you have no evidence.
And you can't say that it did, because you have no evidence.
The second teleport could've stopped the launch.
It might have, it might not have.
He must've been weakened from the previous attacks, and was unable to resist the launch because of this.
How does getting damaged reduce launch resistance? This isn't Smash Brothers.
Because humans are known to lie.
Except they use attacks with lots of build-up in the fights.
And more powerful attacks often have even more build-up.
Right. The initial fights aren't supposed to be hard. The EX fights are supposed to be hard. The EX fights have the same attacks. Therefore, "The strongest attacks would make the fight too hard." isn't a valid argument.
"Harder than the regular bosses" =/= "planetary attacks".
He's not easily destructible, or one attack would kill him.
You could kill him with a sewing needle.
Why would someone agree to letting you get an advantage if they're trying to defeat you?
For the same reason that soccer players don't use their hands. It's the rule of the sport.
There is something in the way of the non-invincible Pokemon that specifically stops Disable/Skill Swap. An invincible hedgehog doesn't have something in the way to specifically stop Disable/Skill Swap.
And what is this factor exactly?
Actually, you can see quite clearly that Kirby hits the enemies in different spots, thus launching them in different places.
Demonstrate.
He's made from magic, not made of magic.
And Meta Knight isn't made from magic.
He stops in mid-air.
After landing on the ground.
There is a portal in his mouth that would shut down a brain. If Kirby had one, he wouldn't be functional because it's getting blocked.
Prove it.
With his alien tongue.
How does he register the sensation of taste with no brain?
The bullets are. Not the guns.
I meant for the example that you were using.
We're talking about energy striking the body.
Sun rays strike the body on a sunny day, but no damage is dealt; in fact, it's a source of vitamins and such.
A) Yes.
B) It looks like Kirby's just sporting the ability rather than it being a result of the Copy Ability.
A) I don't see Kirby surrounding himself with water.
B) And why would he not do so here?
A) I believe so.
B) His feet.
A) Do you have a video?
B) How fast is he?
It's about a second, which is enough time to attack and cancel the charge.
Unless Samus rolls away.
Can't use what as proof?
The thing you can't find a video for, and is thus unproven.
Charging isn't used for fun.
And?
It means he can make mountains fall.
And the size of these mountains isn't specified.
He could, but his fist would get cut.
By what?
Simply stating something is not a valid counterargument.
I simply fail to see why I should disprove something that has not been proven in the first place.
You provided a reason, but not a logical one. When does shock stop people from moving?
When it makes people flustered, startled, etc.
Made so that it isn't a blur to the eyes.
Point?
Which is far too slow.
No; the attack would destroy the fireball.
When does it destroy a golden fireball?
Kirby takes six hits, while Mario enemies take one.
Prove that they are equal in force.
Even so, simply sending the thing into space in the first place still takes at least thousands of pounds.
There are several factors that play into this. For example, there's Popstar's gravitational pull. It seems to be much "thinner" than earth (earth is a sphere, whereas Popstar is a flatter star shape with the same diameter), so it seems to have less mass and thus less gravitational pull.
In Kirby, Stone Kirby can jump over things that move. That's essentially what he'd be doing here.
How fast are said "things that move"?
A pattern in Mario proves that Wing Mario is a transformation.
And the fact that Mario is literally just putting on a different hat proves that it's not.
They might injure at most, but not kill.
Hammers can break through the skull and hit the brain, which would most certainly prove fatal.
Bob-ombs are small. Same goes with their explosions.

Besides, dying after being hit with two Bob-ombs is not "superhuman durability".
Mario is 5 feet, 1 inch in height. Bob-Ombs are about half of that height, so I'll put them at 2 feet 6 inches. So their volume is about 114,232 cubic inches. Assuming that they use gunpowder, that puts the mass at 1,871,927.09485 grams, or 1,871.92709485 kilograms. This translates to 5615.78128455 mega joules, or 5,615,781,284.55 joules. In other words, that's around five and a half billion joules of energy. That translates to 4,141,987,713.8258 pounds of force, or 2,070,993.8569129 tons of force. So it's basically like Mario is being crushed by 1,035,496 cars at once, and he survives that twice. If that's not superhuman durability, I don't know what is.
Kirby is attacking the foot as well.
With which attack?
One hit on the stationary foot + one hit on the attacking foot = dead Mario.
Mario can survive millions of tons of force.
Watch the Dark Mind video I posted earlier.
:4link:?
See below.

Mega Stones and fruits are both major categories, with minor items inside of them. A piece of, say, Gardevoirite, would count as 0.02 towards Magic Room because it's so minor, while Reveal Glass counts and 1 because it's a lot more major. Each individual Mega Stone would add up to 1, while Reveal Glass is also 1, so Reveal Glass isn't an outlier.
Each Mega Stone is one item. Gardevoirite counts as one item in the game, so 1 * 20 (or whatever the amount of Mega Stones is) = 20 Mega Stones. 20 Mega Stones > 1 Reveal Glass.
I'd say that it would, if a robot was built like that.
And if it's not?
That the "bonus" in "bonus cutscene" means that it's extra, and not meant for story.
What definition states this?
Okay. Still, his closeness to Kirby would lead to a weak attack, since he can't accelerate.
Sonic is running/flying towards Kirby after shrinking. Either way, Sonic can accelerate instantly with the boost.
That happened a couple seconds later.
I didn't see it hit Kirby.
The Boost is temporary, so yes.
Super Sonic (or regular Sonic given certain skills) has unlimited boost energy.
Pikmin stuff
I would provide counterarguments and all, but I honestly don't feel that this is worth debating anymore. So what if Olimar has a knife that can "slice through time and space"? We don't know what that entails, if Olimar could activate this, and the opponents aren't "time and space". It's not specific enough to actually affect anything.
If water was compressed, it would have solidified properties, and things wouldn't pass through it.
Unless it's compressed to the point where it stays together, but other water can go through it. Or if it's just energy.
That abilities from the same universe have the same limitations.
In that case, should we give the Propeller Mushroom the time limitations of the Mega Mushroom?
No, not really.
Enough for Rosalina to do something, at least.
It's a veritable black hole.
Which means nothing.
A) Since when can she place black holes where she wants him?
B) That would leave her undeniably vulnerable.
A) Since the Lumas started aiming.
B) The Lumas are doing it, not Rosalina.
He's teleported further than that.
When?
You can't exactly "block" a throw,
You can avoid a grab.
and Jet Kirby would be able to move faster than she can dodge.
After a charge time. If Kirby tries to drag Rosalina into the black hole with Jet, he'd also enter it himself.
A) Okay. In that case, if there's a black hole that is close enough to Kirby to suck him up, Rosalina will be sucked up too.
B) The black hole wouldn't necessarily appear near her.
A) Unless Rosalina is far away.
B) Which is a good thing.
How does that mean that the Lumas/Rosalina can place them?
The Lumas can transform.
When has he "just moved" something when time was frozen?
When he breathes or moves; he's moving the air.
And Marth would take it back.
Except Sonic is too fast, and time is too frozen.
He has other swords as well.
Which won't protect him like Falchion does.
Nothing in the definition says anything about pulling teeth.
So his mind deflects influences to his body?
It would appear so.
A) He didn't see the area where the enemies were when he howled.
B) The enemies appeared from almost nowhere.
He literally just saw the earth split into pieces and become overrun by an evil energy. It's clear that it needs some defending.
Same applies for the Darksphere.
The Overmind failed to control Sonic's mind, and so does the Darksphere.
Me: Meaning that Shadow doesn't have complete control either.
You: He has enough control to freeze time etc.
Me: Freezing time is the effect of Chaos Control, that wouldn't mean he controls the move any.
You: Shadow does.
He does so in gameplay. He chooses who to freeze and who not to freeze (his teammates), and he chooses when to activate it.
See below.

Then how did it corrupt a universe?
When did "being evil" corrupt a universe?
So it won't weaken, but it will reflect.
When does it reflect an attack with the force of a Power Bomb?
Any kind. Examples from the game include punching, bats, and guns.
And what attacks are unaffected?
It sealed attacks from the army, and the army is City Level+, so Falchion can seal attacks that can destroy cities.
Do those same attacks destroy cities?
A petajoule (megaton).

A yottajoule (petaton).
Care to back these up?
A) All of those still use the same amount of power when activated. Plus, none of that is partial activation; it's just using or not using some of the features.
B) His appearance has been altered infinitely.
A) Turning the monitor off conserves energy.
B) How so?
Whether it's an attack or not. Or, in Counter's case, if the attack does enough damage to KO them.
Prove that it can counter any attack, regardless of force.
Presumably.
No, not presumably.
Time freezing is temporary.
And it takes no time at all from the perspective of the one who isn't freezing time.
You mean Sonic's protection?
Yes. Which protection are you referring to?
Can he (or anyone, for that matter) do that?
It seems rather flat as-is, so I'd imagine so.
It's rather short for that.
He could at least make a sort of "u" shape.
Except Back Slash does have universal power.
Really?
Which aren't canon.

Yuji Naka has already classified it as non-canon.
I fail to see the logic in this. I treat it as canon because it flows better (i.e. Tails is in the second half of 3&K and not S&K). It shouldn't affect much, since the Chaos Emeralds and Master Emerald seem to have a similar type of energy, and the Silver Arrows also work against Ganondorf.
What about the bosses?
I'm not sure. I mentioned the double damage against Chaos 6 earlier.
They represent his power, and Arceus has universal power.
Then why does every attack Arceus uses not obliterate the universe, or at least the Pokemon it's used on?
Actually, it does. The games contradict each other when it comes to the Magic Boomerang, but everything it's done has been incorporated.
Leaving something out isn't a contradiction.
 
Last edited:

Crystanium

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Mario is 5 feet, 1 inch in height. Bob-Ombs are about half of that height, so I'll put them at 2 feet 6 inches. So their volume is about 114,232 cubic inches. Assuming that they use gunpowder, that puts the mass at 1,871,927.09485 grams, or 1,871.92709485 kilograms. This translates to 5615.78128455 mega joules, or 5,615,781,284.55 joules. In other words, that's around five and a half billion joules of energy. That translates to 4,141,987,713.8258 pounds of force, or 2,070,993.8569129 tons of force. So it's basically like Mario is being crushed by 1,035,496 cars at once, and he survives that twice. If that's not superhuman durability, I don't know what is.
If we assume Bob-Ombs are 30.5 inches in diameter (half Mario's height), then the volume should be 14,855.87 cm^3. Gunpowder has a density of 1.7 g/cm^3, giving us 25,254.98 grams. There's 3,000 joules per gram, so the result is 75,764,945.72 joules, or 18.11 grams of TNT, not 1.34 tons of TNT as you thought. 1 joule is equal to 1 newton meter. To convert newton meters to newtons, we need to divide by the distance, since work is force times distance. If the distance is only 1 meter, then you'll end up with the same force as you did with energy. With 2 meters, it's halved. It's still a ridiculous amount of force for a human.
 

Munomario777

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If we assume Bob-Ombs are 30.5 inches in diameter (half Mario's height), then the volume should be 14,855.87 cm^3. Gunpowder has a density of 1.7 g/cm^3, giving us 25,254.98 grams. There's 3,000 joules per gram, so the result is 75,764,945.72 joules, or 18.11 grams of TNT, not 1.34 tons of TNT as you thought. 1 joule is equal to 1 newton meter. To convert newton meters to newtons, we need to divide by the distance, since work is force times distance. If the distance is only 1 meter, then you'll end up with the same force as you did with energy. With 2 meters, it's halved. It's still a ridiculous amount of force for a human.
Whoops, my bad! :urg:
 

Kirby Dragons

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Not if Samus already has her arm cannon outward like she does in Metroid: Zero Mission and the Metroid Prime trilogy.
She still has to aim, a point at which Kirby could inhale.

You gave different definitions, none of which negated anything I said.
They opposed how "veritable" can be used metaphorically outside Britain.

It does because Japan isn't an English-speaking country, so not only is it region, it's also language.
America and Britain are both English-speaking countries, but they use different definitions. For example, "fish and chips" means something different in one country, then it does in another that speaks the same language.

Note that it's metaphorical the majority of the time. It's likely that "veritable" is metaphorical because of the way Kirby's hypernova behaves.
Hypernova sucks up some of the biggest objects in the game. That doesn't seem metaphorical.

Your first sentence is an assertion, but we know black holes don't suck or inhale.
All that matters is that they draw things closer, something that Hypernova also does. Because of this, they can be compared.
We know that if it was a real black hole, the objects at Kirby's mouth would have spaghettified if not before they got to his mouth, but would have already done so on contact. You don't seem to understand how black holes work.
It's not his mouth that's the black hole; it's his stomach. The object would be spaghettified when Kirby swallows it, but we don't see what happens to it at that time.

And which I disproved with mine.
How do you know that your source disproved my sources, and not the other way around?
Then you should drop the argument because you're relying on ignorance.
I don't see how I'm using ignorance.

Falsification doesn't work that way. If I have observed swans and said, "There aren't any black swans", I would only need to see one black swan to be wrong. So it is here.
That's something different. We're using sources, not observations.

You said that, but you didn't support it.
If people were only supposed to say "true", "real", and "metaphorical", the word "veritable" wouldn't even exist in the first place.

None of these are adjectives, according to your link.
  • proper
  • right
  • correct
  • official
  • genuine
  • authentic
  • natural
Also, are you certain that is the correct Japanese word used in the game?
I'm getting something translated, so I'll see soon.

Or English for that matter.
As I've shown, the Japanese definition is "true" or "real".

Black holes don't suck or inhale.
How did the description tell you that?
Prove that Schwarz's definition was meant to be non-literal.
The definition didn't say "veritable", or anything like that.
So we can't treat them like actual black holes.
Except we're analyzing Hypernova, not any of the other black holes.
A) Energy blows things up.
B) Prove that Baton squeezes things.
A) Not most of the time, it doesn't.
B) The beam's light appeared tightly on the enemy's body.
Wait, the drawer had doors?
Yep.
Which video?
The one of Kirby surviving the explosion.
The Death Star is a planetbuster. Hypothetically of course, let's say I got hit by the Death Star while it was moving at .1 MPH (or another non-lethal speed). Does that mean that my durability is greater than that of a planet?
No. However, we were talking about the most powerful attacks that the planetbusters use.
How powerful is that electric current?
I don't exactly see how this is relevant, but it's pretty weak.
You said the beam would attract to Kirby's lips, because they're closer. That is false, because Inhale is closer.

Also, does the beam actually do that in the games?
Except the fact that Kirby simply has no way of doing so in-game.
Which you haven't proved.
And you can't say that it did, because you have no evidence.

It might have, it might not have.
Correct. Now, neither of us can use Marx Soul to support/debunk Kirby's attack launching.
How does getting damaged reduce launch resistance? This isn't Smash Brothers.
I meant that Marx didn't choose to try and resist the launch, because he was in so much pain. Injured, maybe.
Because humans are known to lie.
So is that a lie?
And more powerful attacks often have even more build-up.
If they didn't like the idea of being vulnerable, they wouldn't have used any attacks that had build-up in the first place.
"Harder than the regular bosses" =/= "planetary attacks".
Point?
You could kill him with a sewing needle.
I don't know what you're talking about. Kirby has survived lava, falling boulders, etc. Or if you mean that he's like a balloon, that's not true either, because he can be slashed multiple times and still live.
For the same reason that soccer players don't use their hands. It's the rule of the sport.
Magic Room isn't a rule. It's a move.

Also, it works on wild Pokemon too. I'm not sure those can even understand anything, nevertheless agree to something.
And what is this factor exactly?
A forcefield that's designed specifically to block moves like that.
Demonstrate.
And Meta Knight isn't made from magic.
Which, isn't a significant difference.
After landing on the ground.
I'm 101% sure that he didn't.
Prove it.
Nerves go into the mouth area, where Kirby's portal is.
How does he register the sensation of taste with no brain?
With his alien tongue.
I meant for the example that you were using.
You meant what?
Sun rays strike the body on a sunny day, but no damage is dealt; in fact, it's a source of vitamins and such.
Sun rays don't strike the body. They shine on the body.
A) I don't see Kirby surrounding himself with water.
B) And why would he not do so here?
A) He surrounds himself with rain, from a rainbow he creates.
B) He has to prove that he's powerful. Showing something off doesn't contribute to that in any way, shape, or form.
A) Do you have a video?
B) How fast is he?
A) Actually, he can't. Hitstun is a game mechanic, though.
B) Just depends. Regular Kirby is pretty fast, but Wheel Kirby and Jet Kirby are much faster.
Unless Samus rolls away.
Attacks travel.
The thing you can't find a video for, and is thus unproven.
In that case, Sonic can't freeze time, because you can't find a video of him freezing time.
Thus, Kirby wasn't charging the attack, because he was having fun.
And the size of these mountains isn't specified.
Thus, the size of real life mountains is used.
Ultra Sword.
I simply fail to see why I should disprove something that has not been proven in the first place.
That isn't my main argument though.
When it makes people flustered, startled, etc.
Example?
It's what you asked for.
Which is far too slow.
It isn't.
When does it destroy a golden fireball?
It destroys attacks in the games. Plus, rock shards fly in all directions once he uses it, so the fireball would hit one of those.
Prove that they are equal in force.
Lava. 'Nuff said.
There are several factors that play into this. For example, there's Popstar's gravitational pull. It seems to be much "thinner" than earth (earth is a sphere, whereas Popstar is a flatter star shape with the same diameter), so it seems to have less mass and thus less gravitational pull.
Mass is how much matter an object contains. We don't see how much matter that Popstar contains. It could be all compressed. That would explain how Popstar survived the explosion, actually.
How fast are said "things that move"?
Average speeds.
And the fact that Mario is literally just putting on a different hat proves that it's not.
In that case, Fire Mario is just putting on some different clothes, and he isn't a transformation.
Hammers can break through the skull and hit the brain, which would most certainly prove fatal.
The size of the hammers in Mario says no.
Mario is 5 feet, 1 inch in height. Bob-Ombs are about half of that height, so I'll put them at 2 feet 6 inches. So their volume is about 114,232 cubic inches. Assuming that they use gunpowder, that puts the mass at 1,871,927.09485 grams, or 1,871.92709485 kilograms. This translates to 5615.78128455 mega joules, or 5,615,781,284.55 joules. In other words, that's around five and a half billion joules of energy. That translates to 4,141,987,713.8258 pounds of force, or 2,070,993.8569129 tons of force. So it's basically like Mario is being crushed by 1,035,496 cars at once, and he survives that twice. If that's not superhuman durability, I don't know what is.
That calculation has been disproven. Besides, two attacks with any amount of force less than that can still kill Mario. The size of the explosion is also obviously less than that.
With which attack?
Fire Breath, Cutter Boomerang, Tornado Attack, etc.
Mario can survive millions of tons of force.
That isn't a durability feat. When the Bob-omb hits him, he gets hurt.
Watch the Dark Mind video I posted earlier.
Um, what?
Each Mega Stone is one item. Gardevoirite counts as one item in the game, so 1 * 20 (or whatever the amount of Mega Stones is) = 20 Mega Stones. 20 Mega Stones > 1 Reveal Glass.
If you use a piece of Gardevoirite, you can't use a piece of Mewtwonite. That pretty much says they're the same thing.
And if it's not?
Then you're right. Yet, you don't have an example of this, so you aren't necessarily right.

What definition states this?
Bonus: something welcome and often unexpected that accompanies and enhances something that is itself good.

Sonic is running/flying towards Kirby after shrinking.
Which doesn't have much force. No acceleration there.
Either way, Sonic can accelerate instantly with the boost.
That will have force. However, the planet explosion accelerates at the speed of light, and it has a mass greater than that of Sonic. Kirby survived that, so he can survive the boost.

I didn't see it hit Kirby.
Exactly. He reacted to/dodged it.
Super Sonic (or regular Sonic given certain skills) has unlimited boost energy.
So, he can boost for any amount of distance?
Pikmin stuff
I would provide counterarguments and all, but I honestly don't feel that this is worth debating anymore. So what if Olimar has a knife that can "slice through time and space"? We don't know what that entails, if Olimar could activate this, and the opponents aren't "time and space". It's not specific enough to actually affect anything.
Olimar can obviously activate it, it's proven by his observations. The Dimensional Slicer makes Olimar powerful, because Olimar > Dimensional Slicer > space and time > many of these guys.

Unless it's compressed to the point where it stays together, but other water can go through it.
I'm not exactly sure that makes sense.
Or if it's just energy.
Same thing applies.
In that case, should we give the Propeller Mushroom the time limitations of the Mega Mushroom?
We just shouldn't put things past limitations they haven't shown, basically. Rosalina has never used teleportation and forcefields at the same time, so we can't put her past that limitation.

Enough for Rosalina to do something, at least.
Do what, exactly?

Which means nothing.
Which means, it can suck up things 99999999999x bigger than Rosalina.

A) Since the Lumas started aiming.
B) The Lumas are doing it, not Rosalina.
A) That doesn't mean they can put black holes wherever they want.
B) That would make them vulnerable then.

In the video I posted.
You can avoid a grab.
She can't avoid a Mach 5 grab.
After a charge time.
That doesn't mean he can't grab her.
If Kirby tries to drag Rosalina into the black hole with Jet, he'd also enter it himself.
He wouldn't be dragging her; he'd be throwing her.

A) Unless Rosalina is far away.
B) Which is a good thing.
A) Kirby would be far away too.

The Lumas can transform.
How does that mean they can place the black holes?

When he breathes or moves; he's moving the air.
He doesn't necessarily have to breathe. The air moving is basically the same knockback that the enemies he hits takes.

Except Sonic is too fast, and time is too frozen.
Sonic's attacks have close range, so he can take it back during then. Time freeze is temporary.
Which won't protect him like Falchion does.
He can heal.
Nothing in the definition says anything about pulling teeth.
I used things from the definition to generate that.

It would appear so.
So maybe Sonic's mind deflects the Darksphere's influences to his body, thus turning him into Sonic the Werehog, and preventing him from using his good skills and abilities. That works.

He literally just saw the earth split into pieces and become overrun by an evil energy. It's clear that it needs some defending.
So why would he use a battle cry in the middle of the adventure?
The Overmind failed to control Sonic's mind, and so does the Darksphere.
Darksphere is more powerful than Overmind.
He does so in gameplay. He chooses who to freeze and who not to freeze (his teammates), and he chooses when to activate it.
That former is automatic, and the latter isn't controlling the move; it's controlling the time the move is activated.
When did "being evil" corrupt a universe?
In Kirby and the Amazing Mirror.
When does it reflect an attack with the force of a Power Bomb?
Force is irrelevant.
And what attacks are unaffected?
Energy attacks and items.
Do those same attacks destroy cities?
Yep.
Care to back these up?
Tsar Bomba can destroy a city, and it has a petajoule of force. The sun's water can all be heated at once with a yottajoule of force.
A) Turning the monitor off conserves energy.
B) How so?
A) Conserving energy ≠ partially activating something.
B) Nothing is left of his old appearance. Everything has changed.

Prove that it can counter any attack, regardless of force.
Force isn't relevant to what it can and can't counter.
No, not presumably.
Why not?
And it takes no time at all from the perspective of the one who isn't freezing time.
How does that mean Mewtwo can't outlast it?
Yes. Which protection are you referring to?
Super Sonic's invincibility.
It seems rather flat as-is, so I'd imagine so.
A piece of paper in a book is even flatter, but it can't do that.
He could at least make a sort of "u" shape.
The item would likely fall out of his tail when he used his physical attacks, but it doesn't do that.

Also, Aqua Tail can be used by Qwilfish when he's holding an item, and the item doesn't fall out.

Yep. It comes from a universal god, and a weapon that increases attack power to a universal level.
I fail to see the logic in this. I treat it as canon because it flows better (i.e. Tails is in the second half of 3&K and not S&K).
What the creator says is correct, whether logical is not. I can treat Kirby as bigger than eight inches due to logic found in the games, but I can't because of what the creator said.
It shouldn't affect much, since the Chaos Emeralds and Master Emerald seem to have a similar type of energy, and the Silver Arrows also work against Ganondorf.
Can he use the energy for attacks?
I'm not sure. I mentioned the double damage against Chaos 6 earlier.
That doesn't talk about how many times it hits.
Then why does every attack Arceus uses not obliterate the universe, or at least the Pokemon it's used on?
Arceus can pretty much stomp all of its opponents.

Leaving something out isn't a contradiction.
Then Wario can get his invincibility, even though it was left out in some games.

Let's say the United States has 50 armies. Of these, 49 are weaklings that can't even lift pebbles. The last army is strong enough to destroy mountains. The last army is an outlier. When the United States goes to war, is it going to avoid sending the last army, because it's an outlier?
 

Munomario777

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How did the description tell you that?
As Dryn put it:
Dryn said:
The description of hypernova says it "allows him to inhale giant objects". "Kirby's inhale achieves maximum suckitude when he eats a Miracle Fruit and goes Hypernova. He can suck up trees and enemies, move massive blocks, and even inhale parts of some stages." (Nintendo, Kirby: Triple Deluxe) Black holes don't inhale, they don't have any suctioning, and they don't move large objects, at least not in the way Kirby's inhale does. The fact that Kirby doesn't spaghettify further proves my point.
The definition didn't say "veritable", or anything like that.
How does that mean it's not literal?
Except we're analyzing Hypernova, not any of the other black holes.
Hypernova doesn't behave like a black hole either.
A) Not most of the time, it doesn't.
B) The beam's light appeared tightly on the enemy's body.
A) Explosions always involve some sort of energy.
B) As could a bag around an object. That doesn't mean that it relies on friction, tightness, etc to hold said object.
The drawer is going downwards, so the doors open upwards, in the opposite direction, being dragged behind the drawer. Marx's wings are extending perpendicular to the direction of travel. It's not the same principle.
The one of Kirby surviving the explosion.
That doesn't prove that the lack of damage is due to durability. It deals no damage to Kirby or the planet, and only affects the plants around the planet (and I'd like to point out that the grass, trees, etc on the surface are still intact).
No. However, we were talking about the most powerful attacks that the planetbusters use.
Prove that these are the most powerful attacks, and the same ones used to destroy a planet.
I don't exactly see how this is relevant, but it's pretty weak.
Then we shouldn't extrapolate and assume that Kirby can inhale any electrical force.
You said the beam would attract to Kirby's lips, because they're closer. That is false, because Inhale is closer.
The inhalation vortex is made of air, which is an insulator; in other words, it doesn't conduct electricity well at all. Kirby's skin would be more desireable.
Also, does the beam actually do that in the games?
I'm not sure. You'd have to ask Dryn. I'm just applying real-world principles.
Which you haven't proved.
You can press every button combination imaginable in-game, and he won't create that giant tornado.
Correct. Now, neither of us can use Marx Soul to support/debunk Kirby's attack launching.
No, it means that you can't use it. I disproved your point on the matter; you have yet to disprove mine (that Marx Soul isn't launched as far as Marx is).
I meant that Marx didn't choose to try and resist the launch, because he was in so much pain. Injured, maybe.
How do we see him resist the launch before this point?
So is that a lie?
No.
If they didn't like the idea of being vulnerable, they wouldn't have used any attacks that had build-up in the first place.
It's about drawing the line of too much buildup. Any more, and Kirby would be able to attack them very easily. A little bit is acceptable, though (at least to them).
Just because they're meant to be harder doesn't mean that their attacks have the power to destroy a planet (which clearly does not occur in the battles).
I don't know what you're talking about. Kirby has survived lava, falling boulders, etc. Or if you mean that he's like a balloon, that's not true either, because he can be slashed multiple times and still live.
Can he not be damaged by spiky objects?
Magic Room isn't a rule. It's a move.
With a rule attached to it.
Also, it works on wild Pokemon too. I'm not sure those can even understand anything, nevertheless agree to something.
Hm, true. It may not be a rule, but we still shouldn't extrapolate. It's likely that this simply either gives the user a speed buff, or the target a speed nerf, so we should look at the games and see the biggest difference to determine the move's degree of effectiveness.
A forcefield that's designed specifically to block moves like that.
Prove that Protect was specifically designed to block moves like that, and prove that said moves can only be blocked by those sort of things.
Could you please list examples, timestamps, etc?
Which, isn't a significant difference.
There's too many differences in origin, behavior, etc to just assume that this Meta Knight copy matches the real deal in abilities, gear etc.
I'm 101% sure that he didn't.
I'm just as sure that he did. Watch the clip in question again.
Nerves go into the mouth area, where Kirby's portal is.
And?
With his alien tongue.
Which isn't sending signals to anywhere. Without a brain to process the tongue's signal, nothing will really be registered.
You meant what?
"And they're both attacks."
Sun rays don't strike the body. They shine on the body.
"Strike: to drive so as to cause impact." - Dictionary.com
A) He surrounds himself with rain, from a rainbow he creates.
B) He has to prove that he's powerful. Showing something off doesn't contribute to that in any way, shape, or form.
A) Do you have a link and timestamp for this?
B) He always shows it off in-game; this is due to his personality, which we should take into account in hypothetical battles.
A) Actually, he can't. Hitstun is a game mechanic, though.
B) Just depends. Regular Kirby is pretty fast, but Wheel Kirby and Jet Kirby are much faster.
A) Hitstun isn't just a game mechanic. If a boxer goes to attack but is punched in the gut before doing so, they likely won't follow through with the punch (at least, not very effectively).
B) Both require charge time to get enough speed.
Attacks travel.
?
In that case, Sonic can't freeze time, because you can't find a video of him freezing time.
I can find a video of Shadow using Chaos Control to freeze time; Sonic also has the ability to use Chaos Control.
Thus, Kirby wasn't charging the attack, because he was having fun.
Prove that it's impossible to have fun whilst charging, or vice-versa.
Thus, the size of real life mountains is used.
No, because that's an unreasonable assumption. We see Kirby destroy much smaller mountains with the Ultra Sword, so we should use that size.
Ultra Sword.
Kirby is attacking in front of him. Bowser's fist is coming in from the side.
That isn't my main argument though.
Then what is?
Now that I think about it, it's likely a result of the pain from the crash, and while Kirby does shake it off, he's flinching from the pain, so he's not acting in midair.
It's what you asked for.
And now I ask for your original point.
It isn't.
Prove that it's fast enough.
It destroys attacks in the games.
Such as the Gold Flower?
Plus, rock shards fly in all directions once he uses it, so the fireball would hit one of those.
And Kirby is still hit by the resulting shockwave.
Lava. 'Nuff said.
What about it?
Mass is how much matter an object contains. We don't see how much matter that Popstar contains. It could be all compressed. That would explain how Popstar survived the explosion, actually.
It could be compressed, it could not be compressed. Point?
Average speeds.
Do you have a video?
In that case, Fire Mario is just putting on some different clothes, and he isn't a transformation.
We see Mario transform instantly when he grabs a Fire Flower. On the other hand, the Wing Cap is literally a different hat that Mario puts on.
The size of the hammers in Mario says no.
They seem pretty large to me.
That calculation has been disproven.
If you mean Dryn's post, it's still a ridiculous amount of force.
Besides, two attacks with any amount of force less than that can still kill Mario.
Because of hit points. Any attack seems like it'll reduce Mario's form, so we take the most powerful attack he's endured and set that as the "cap" for Mario simply shrinking. Anything above that, we assume will OHKO him.
The size of the explosion is also obviously less than that.
Would you like to calculate the force then?
Fire Breath, Cutter Boomerang, Tornado Attack, etc.
Will those stop the foot?
That isn't a durability feat. When the Bob-omb hits him, he gets hurt.
And doesn't die, like a normal human would.
Um, what?
It was a humorous way of asking for a link to the video. :p
If you use a piece of Gardevoirite, you can't use a piece of Mewtwonite. That pretty much says they're the same thing.
How does that prove that they're one entity?
Then you're right. Yet, you don't have an example of this, so you aren't necessarily right.
I believe there are certain car models (or modified cars) which have separate batteries for the car alarm and its other electrical features, i.e. the radio. Either way, it works hypothetically.
Bonus: something welcome and often unexpected that accompanies and enhances something that is itself good.
How does that mean it's "extra, and not meant for story"?
Which doesn't have much force. No acceleration there.
Speed can also create force.
That will have force. However, the planet explosion accelerates at the speed of light, and it has a mass greater than that of Sonic. Kirby survived that, so he can survive the boost.
Wait, since when did it accelerate at the speed of light?
Exactly. He reacted to/dodged it.
Kirby's just running around. He's not reacting to the bolts and dodging them; they're just hitting the ground behind Kirby.
So, he can boost for any amount of distance?
Yes, in his super form (or with the correct Skills).
Olimar can obviously activate it, it's proven by his observations.
When did he activate it?
The Dimensional Slicer makes Olimar powerful, because Olimar > Dimensional Slicer > space and time > many of these guys.
You have yet to provide an example of the Dimensional Slicer being used offensively against an opponent. You'd think he'd use it against the creatures on the planet.
I'm not exactly sure that makes sense.
In space, water gathers together into spherical bubbles due to molecular attraction and the lack of gravity. You can still put a straw through it (if I'm not mistaken).
Same thing applies.
Energy isn't solid.
We just shouldn't put things past limitations they haven't shown, basically. Rosalina has never used teleportation and forcefields at the same time, so we can't put her past that limitation.
The things have never shown that limitation, so why should we apply them?
Do what, exactly?
Attack, possibly with a black hole.
Which means, it can suck up things 99999999999x bigger than Rosalina.
Except it's not a real black hole.
A) That doesn't mean they can put black holes wherever they want.
B) That would make them vulnerable then.
A) They can go wherever they want, and they can create/turn into black holes wherever they are.
B) They're travelling at high speeds.
In the video I posted.
Which one?
She can't avoid a Mach 5 grab.
She can block solid objects via her force field.
That doesn't mean he can't grab her.
She can avoid it via intangibility, teleportation, etc.
He wouldn't be dragging her; he'd be throwing her.
Meanwhile, a Luma could just come up and become a black hole around Kirby.
A) Kirby would be far away too.
And a black hole could come to Kirby.
How does that mean they can place the black holes?
They can transform into black holes.
He doesn't necessarily have to breathe. The air moving is basically the same knockback that the enemies he hits takes.
And the same principle could apply to the sword's movement.
Sonic's attacks have close range, so he can take it back during then. Time freeze is temporary.
Sonic's attacks are much too fast for Marth to reach his arm at Sonic without it getting ripped off by the sheer force. Time freeze lasts long enough.
He can heal.
He can't heal constantly.
I used things from the definition to generate that.
Such as?
So maybe Sonic's mind deflects the Darksphere's influences to his body, thus turning him into Sonic the Werehog, and preventing him from using his good skills and abilities. That works.
He still has the Chaos Emeralds, which allow him to turn into Super Sonic (or otherwise become extremely powerful if he for some reason cannot enter his super form). In fact, the Werehog form is actually pretty potent. His stretchy arms and super strength would allow him to take the Falchion, and he has tons of versatility in hand-to-hand combat.
So why would he use a battle cry in the middle of the adventure?
Because it's a battle.
Darksphere is more powerful than Overmind.
Prove it.
That former is automatic,
How would Chaos Control "know" who to freeze and who not to freeze?
and the latter isn't controlling the move; it's controlling the time the move is activated.
Which is controlling an aspect of the move.
In Kirby and the Amazing Mirror.
Could you please be more specific?
Force is irrelevant.
Force is not irrelevant.
Energy attacks and items.
Sonic has plenty of energy attacks (for instance, the boost), and he has multiple items as well (i.e. the Wisps).
Do you have a video of this?
Tsar Bomba can destroy a city, and it has a petajoule of force. The sun's water can all be heated at once with a yottajoule of force.
I don't see proof here.
A) Conserving energy ≠ partially activating something.
B) Nothing is left of his old appearance. Everything has changed.
A) I partially activate my computer setup by turning off the monitor, and that conserves energy.
B) So does that mean that tearing down a house and rebuilding it indicates infinite energy?
Force isn't relevant to what it can and can't counter.
It involves resisting an amount of force and attacking with that amount of force. Force is very relevant here.
Because there's no indication.
How does that mean Mewtwo can't outlast it?
There's no such thing as "outlasting" time freezing, as it doesn't have to be outlasted. What method are you saying that Mewtwo would use?
Super Sonic's invincibility.
The beam can harm Super Sonic, but that only knocks a few Rings out of him.
A piece of paper in a book is even flatter, but it can't do that.
Because it's not alive, and is thus unable of curling up in the first place.
The item would likely fall out of his tail when he used his physical attacks, but it doesn't do that.

Also, Aqua Tail can be used by Qwilfish when he's holding an item, and the item doesn't fall out.
He could simply, say, put the item in his mouth (or something else) when using his tail, and vice versa.
Yep. It comes from a universal god, and a weapon that increases attack power to a universal level.
Which weapon?
What the creator says is correct, whether logical is not. ]I can treat Kirby as bigger than eight inches due to logic found in the games, but I can't because of what the creator said.
It's a matter of preference, I suppose.
Can he use the energy for attacks?
Yes.
That doesn't talk about how many times it hits.
Who ever said anything about how many times it hits?
Arceus can pretty much stomp all of its opponents.
So, every attack is an OHKO?
Then Wario can get his invincibility, even though it was left out in some games.
Invincibility and getting damaged are contradictory; both cannot happen at the same time. Thus, we go with the more common one, which in this case is the latter.
Let's say the United States has 50 armies. Of these, 49 are weaklings that can't even lift pebbles. The last army is strong enough to destroy mountains. The last army is an outlier. When the United States goes to war, is it going to avoid sending the last army, because it's an outlier?
I fail to see what this has to do with contradictory sources.
 

Nerdicon

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Here you go. From Vocabulary.com. If it was a real black hole, then it wouldn't be possible for Kirby's mouth to be blocked off during the battle against Queen Sectonia. Black holes also don't inhale things. Also, your link to Word Reference says "veritable" is to be understood metaphorically if it's prenominal. In this case, it is a prenominal adjective, or the adjective precedes the noun, "veritable black hole". Once again, it is often understood as a metaphor. Besides, why does it matter if one is British and the other is not? Am I to think that Americans created English, or should I take it from the British? Am I to think that if someone else is from the Europe, that I should ignore them on this matter?
To be fair a laser couldn't escape. That's a property of the Hypernova being fueled by gravity or a lot of game logic.

Also I really fell that jet has been overlooked, if Kirby fully charges one charge and switches ability while moving that momentum should carry over into whatever ability he turns into. Pretty devastating when combined with Needle, Stone, Thunder Sword, Spark, or some other short range ability.
 

Crystanium

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To be fair a laser couldn't escape. That's a property of the Hypernova being fueled by gravity or a lot of game logic.

Also I really fell that jet has been overlooked, if Kirby fully charges one charge and switches ability while moving that momentum should carry over into whatever ability he turns into. Pretty devastating when combined with Needle, Stone, Thunder Sword, Spark, or some other short range ability.
I won't be addressing the matter with Kirby Dragons until he can find what Japanese word was used and the definition as an adjective. Until then, being a prenominal adjective renders it metaphorical and the descriptions of it supports this. When has Kirby inhaled a laser and was it running perpendicular to said inhalation? From my calculation, Kirby will be able to inhale 200+ kilograms, enough suction to defeat most of the roster.
 

Kirby Dragons

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As Dryn put it:
As I said earlier, that would mean that Kirby's inhale is meant to mimic a black hole. Or, his stomach just combines with his mouth to produce suction rather than gravity.
How does that mean it's not literal?
It said nothing about being literal in the definition.
Hypernova doesn't behave like a black hole either.
Lore says otherwise.
A) Explosions always involve some sort of energy.
B) As could a bag around an object. That doesn't mean that it relies on friction, tightness, etc to hold said object.
A) Link can create explosions using his bombs, but he doesn't have to charge them up.
B) A bag couldn't exactly do that around an object. At least, not as tightly as a hand.
The drawer is going downwards, so the doors open upwards, in the opposite direction, being dragged behind the drawer. Marx's wings are extending perpendicular to the direction of travel. It's not the same principle.
Fair enough.

If you watch the video closely, you can see that the blast hit Marx's wings, meaning it would've been the force to cause them to spread.
That doesn't prove that the lack of damage is due to durability. It deals no damage to Kirby or the planet, and only affects the plants around the planet (and I'd like to point out that the grass, trees, etc on the surface are still intact).
Meaning that Kirby, the planet, and the things on it (at least, the things we've seen) are durable.
Prove that these are the most powerful attacks, and the same ones used to destroy a planet.
They do the most damage, and are used to try and destroy things.
Then we shouldn't extrapolate and assume that Kirby can inhale any electrical force.
Who's extrapolating? Kirby inhales electrical force in the games, and you've also failed to provide a valid reason on why he can't.
The inhalation vortex is made of air, which is an insulator; in other words, it doesn't conduct electricity well at all. Kirby's skin would be more desireable.
Inhale can cover the entire front of Kirby's face, meaning that even if Kirby's skin will conduct it, it will still reach the vortex.
You can press every button combination imaginable in-game, and he won't create that giant tornado.
True. Though, that isn't a contradiction.
No, it means that you can't use it. I disproved your point on the matter; you have yet to disprove mine (that Marx Soul isn't launched as far as Marx is).
You've never disproved my point.
How do we see him resist the launch before this point?
He's flying.
Exactly.
It's about drawing the line of too much buildup. Any more, and Kirby would be able to attack them very easily. A little bit is acceptable, though (at least to them).
This is a lot more than a little bit of buildup.
Just because they're meant to be harder doesn't mean that their attacks have the power to destroy a planet (which clearly does not occur in the battles).
You aren't seeing my point here. I'm saying that the regular bosses use their most powerful attacks in their battles, because the EX bosses use the same attacks in their battles. Thus, disproving your point about the bosses not using their strongest attacks.
Can he not be damaged by spiky objects?
Yeah, but they don't really kill him. Even if they did, that wouldn't make him "easily destructible".
With a rule attached to it.
What rule, and what's your point?
Hm, true. It may not be a rule, but we still shouldn't extrapolate. It's likely that this simply either gives the user a speed buff, or the target a speed nerf, so we should look at the games and see the biggest difference to determine the move's degree of effectiveness.
Slowpoke (Speed of 15) can use it on Mega Mewtwo (speed of 140).
Prove that Protect was specifically designed to block moves like that, and prove that said moves can only be blocked by those sort of things.
The descriptions. The properties of the moves.
Could you please list examples, timestamps, etc?
At 9:35, he attacks in a different spot than where he hit Marx, and it launched him differently.
There's too many differences in origin, behavior, etc to just assume that this Meta Knight copy matches the real deal in abilities, gear etc.
That's pure hyperbole. The only difference that you pointed out is that Meta Knight isn't made from magic, and that isn't even significant.
I'm just as sure that he did. Watch the clip in question again.
I did, and I saw him fly right before touching the platform.
Proof.
Which isn't sending signals to anywhere. Without a brain to process the tongue's signal, nothing will really be registered.
Unless you're an alien, and you don't follow the physiology of a human.
"And they're both attacks."
Can you restate your argument?
"Strike: to drive so as to cause impact." - Dictionary.com
Sun rays don't cause impact.
A) Do you have a link and timestamp for this?
B) He always shows it off in-game; this is due to his personality, which we should take into account in hypothetical battles.
A) I provided the link already. The timestamp is 13:35.
B) We are using the true power of each character. If Kirby did that every time, that would subtract from it. By the way, does Sonic ever use Chaos Control without saying its name? If not, that would apply here too.
A) Hitstun isn't just a game mechanic. If a boxer goes to attack but is punched in the gut before doing so, they likely won't follow through with the punch (at least, not very effectively).
B) Both require charge time to get enough speed.
A) Something completely different. The boxer didn't get hit when he was stunned, his attack just got cancelled by another one.
B) Wheel Kirby doesn't need charge time.
Samus can't simply roll away from the attack, because the attack will follow.
I can find a video of Shadow using Chaos Control to freeze time; Sonic also has the ability to use Chaos Control.
A) That's not good enough. I can find a video of Kirby inhaling and swallowing to copy powers; Dedede can inhale and swallow. Can Dedede copy powers?
B) Using the Spin Dash while boosting would also apply here.
Prove that it's impossible to have fun whilst charging, or vice-versa.
If you're charging something, you are preparing for something to get done, and
No, because that's an unreasonable assumption. We see Kirby destroy much smaller mountains with the Ultra Sword, so we should use that size.
The instance in gameplay doesn't fit the lore, meaning that the lore is something else.
Kirby is attacking in front of him. Bowser's fist is coming in from the side.
Kirby is standing on Bowser. But no matter where he's standing, he can swing the blade at Bowser's fist.
Then what is?
Jet Kirby moves at Mach 5 in the anime, because he used an attack from the games that's Mach 5.
Now that I think about it, it's likely a result of the pain from the crash, and while Kirby does shake it off, he's flinching from the pain, so he's not acting in midair.
His eyes are wide open, and he takes no damage in his health bar. Clearly, he doesn't take pain, and he isn't flinching.
And now I ask for your original point.
That the telescope GIF doesn't disprove Octacon being in space, because the telescope in the anime was used for a different function.
Prove that it's fast enough.
It's the speed that regular Kirby flies at. He can fly over lasers traveling faster than the fireball.
Such as the Gold Flower?
It can destroy energy attacks. Golden fireballs are energy attacks.
And Kirby is still hit by the resulting shockwave.
He can fly.
What about it?
Kirby lives. Mario enemies die.
It could be compressed, it could not be compressed. Point?
If it were compressed, that would mean it had a lot of mass, meaning a lot of gravity.
Do you have a video?
Yes.
We see Mario transform instantly when he grabs a Fire Flower. On the other hand, the Wing Cap is literally a different hat that Mario puts on.
We see Mario instantly transform too.
They seem pretty large to me.

You were saying?
If you mean Dryn's post, it's still a ridiculous amount of force.
How much?
Because of hit points. Any attack seems like it'll reduce Mario's form, so we take the most powerful attack he's endured and set that as the "cap" for Mario simply shrinking. Anything above that, we assume will OHKO him.
Right.
Would you like to calculate the force then?
Nah, I'm good.
Will those stop the foot?
Nope. They'll defeat Mario, thus winning the battle.
And doesn't die, like a normal human would.
See above.
It was a humorous way of asking for a link to the video. :p
Oh.
How does that prove that they're one entity?
It would pretty much mean that all the stones are connected, and are recognized to be the same to everything.
I believe there are certain car models (or modified cars) which have separate batteries for the car alarm and its other electrical features, i.e. the radio. Either way, it works hypothetically.
In order for the argument to work, we would need to see the physiology of a Pokemon, and how it gets energy.
How does that mean it's "extra, and not meant for story"?
It accompanies it the story, meaning it's not a part of it.
Speed can also create force.
Force = mass x acceleration, not mass x speed.
Wait, since when did it accelerate at the speed of light?
It covered the entire planet in about a second.
Kirby's just running around. He's not reacting to the bolts and dodging them; they're just hitting the ground behind Kirby.
There was a bolt that hit the entire area Kirby was in, but he reacted to it and dodged it. Also, he jumped during each one, meaning reaction.
Yes, in his super form (or with the correct Skills).
Can I see a video?
When did he activate it?
Offscreen.
You have yet to provide an example of the Dimensional Slicer being used offensively against an opponent. You'd think he'd use it against the creatures on the planet.
He needed to get it back to the planet, not fight enemies with it.
In space, water gathers together into spherical bubbles due to molecular attraction and the lack of gravity. You can still put a straw through it (if I'm not mistaken).
Star Bits stay solid when there's gravity present.
Energy isn't solid.
Thus, proving that Star Bits aren't energy. We clearly see that they're solid multiple times in the games.
The things have never shown that limitation, so why should we apply them?
Because it's an unproven statement. If we allow it, we can let the Ice Climbers grow to the size of a planet, fly at the speed of light, and use universal attacks. When did the climbers show the limitation saying they can't do that?
Attack, possibly with a black hole.
Except Rosalina can't attack with a black hole under most circumstances.
Except it's not a real black hole.
Official lore says the exact opposite.

Besides, Hypernova Kirby can inhale 200+ kilogram objects (according to Dryn). Rosalina is less.
A) They can go wherever they want, and they can create/turn into black holes wherever they are.
B) They're travelling at high speeds.
A) Combining two separate, unrelated feats doesn't prove anything.
B) There's plenty of starting lag where they don't travel anywhere.
Which one?
I only posted one.
She can block solid objects via her force field.
She lacks reaction time feats.
She can avoid it via intangibility, teleportation, etc.
Once more, she lacks reaction time feats.
Meanwhile, a Luma could just come up and become a black hole around Kirby.
That sentence is wrong in about ten different ways.
And a black hole could come to Kirby.
Same with this one.
They can transform into black holes.
Proving nothing.
And the same principle could apply to the sword's movement.
Yeah, he has to hit it, which would be difficult and would waste time.
Sonic's attacks are much too fast for Marth to reach his arm at Sonic without it getting ripped off by the sheer force.
Sonic isn't attacking though.
Time freeze lasts long enough.
Not if he wastes it by trying to hit Marth's things, and failing.
He can't heal constantly.
Sol/Lifesphere.
Feral teeth.
He still has the Chaos Emeralds, which allow him to turn into Super Sonic (or otherwise become extremely powerful if he for some reason cannot enter his super form).
Does being Super Sonic stop him from turning into Sonic the Werehog.
In fact, the Werehog form is actually pretty potent. His stretchy arms and super strength would allow him to take the Falchion, and he has tons of versatility in hand-to-hand combat.
How far can his arms stretch? His combat could be countered by Marth just using his blade to poke his hands.
Because it's a battle.
Something he was completely unaware of when he howled.
Prove it.
It can take control of multiple opponents at once. It's also deity mind control.
How would Chaos Control "know" who to freeze and who not to freeze?
Sonic and Silver also have access to Chaos Control, so that could have something to do with it.
Which is controlling an aspect of the move.
Which isn't controlling the move.
Could you please be more specific?
Dark Mind corrupted the Mirror World using his evil.
Force is not irrelevant.
It's a mirror. Force is irrelevant.
Sonic has plenty of energy attacks (for instance, the boost), and he has multiple items as well (i.e. the Wisps).
(sigh)








Though, Ness can beat Sonic too.
Do you have a video of this?
I don't see proof here.
I do.
A) I partially activate my computer setup by turning off the monitor, and that conserves energy.
B) So does that mean that tearing down a house and rebuilding it indicates infinite energy?
A) That isn't partial activation.
B) If there's lore saying that tearing down has infinite energy, then yes.
It involves resisting an amount of force and attacking with that amount of force. Force is very relevant here.
No force is resisted there.
Because there's no indication.
The attacks do the most damage, and are used by the bosses to destroy objects.
There's no such thing as "outlasting" time freezing, as it doesn't have to be outlasted. What method are you saying that Mewtwo would use?
He'd live after the time limit for time freezing was done.
The beam can harm Super Sonic, but that only knocks a few Rings out of him.
The Rings are negated, so Super Sonic dies when the beam harms him.
Because it's not alive, and is thus unable of curling up in the first place.
Tails aren't alive either.
He could simply, say, put the item in his mouth (or something else) when using his tail, and vice versa.
Which would lead to starting lag for the move (something that doesn't happen). I also imagine that Rollout would knock away the item whether it was in his mouth or tail.
Which weapon?
The Monado.
It's a matter of preference, I suppose.
So if I prefer Kirby to be taller than eight inches, he can be taller?
Which attacks?
Who ever said anything about how many times it hits?
You.
So, every attack is an OHKO?
Not sure about that one, to be honest.
Invincibility and getting damaged are contradictory; both cannot happen at the same time. Thus, we go with the more common one, which in this case is the latter.
Magic Boomerang rule.
I fail to see what this has to do with contradictory sources.
You said Wario's invincibility was an outlier.
 
Last edited:

Munomario777

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As I said earlier, that would mean that Kirby's inhale is meant to mimic a black hole.
Except it doesn't.
Or, his stomach just combines with his mouth to produce suction rather than gravity.
If there's a black hole, there's gravity. Suction doesn't just make gravity nonexistent.
It said nothing about being literal in the definition.
And if it's not said, implied, etc to be metaphorical, we should assume that it's being literal.
Lore says otherwise.
Lore says that Hypernova uses suction. Black holes don't use suction.
A) Link can create explosions using his bombs, but he doesn't have to charge them up.
B) A bag couldn't exactly do that around an object. At least, not as tightly as a hand.
A) He needs energy. In the case of the bombs, the heat energy of the fire does this. In the case of Baton, the kinetic energy of the spinning foe/baton does this.
Fair enough.

If you watch the video closely, you can see that the blast hit Marx's wings, meaning it would've been the force to cause them to spread.
Does this occur in all playthroughs?
Meaning that Kirby, the planet, and the things on it (at least, the things we've seen) are durable.
Or that the explosion doesn't damage things.
They do the most damage,
This is only in terms of the boss fight.
and are used to try and destroy things.
A bat could be used to destroy things, but it cannot destroy a planet.
Who's extrapolating?
You.
Kirby inhales electrical force in the games, and you've also failed to provide a valid reason on why he can't.
Being near high-voltage electricity will cause injury, electrocution, and the like.
Inhale can cover the entire front of Kirby's face, meaning that even if Kirby's skin will conduct it, it will still reach the vortex.
And the vortex won't stop the bolt from touching Kirby. Wind doesn't affect electricity (at least, not noticeably).
True. Though, that isn't a contradiction.
The tornado in the games is small. The tornado in the anime is big. Games overrule anime, so the tornado is small.
You've never disproved my point.
I didn't need to "disprove" it. Rather, I pointed out that you had no real proof to begin with.
He's flying.
Flying applies an upwards force, to contradict gravity. If Marx is flying, that wouldn't resist an upwards force; it would only increase it.
So how does that mean that people cannot lie?
This is a lot more than a little bit of buildup.
It's about a second.
You aren't seeing my point here. I'm saying that the regular bosses use their most powerful attacks in their battles, because the EX bosses use the same attacks in their battles. Thus, disproving your point about the bosses not using their strongest attacks.
How does the EX bosses using certain attacks mean that those must be the "planetary" attacks?
Yeah, but they don't really kill him. Even if they did, that wouldn't make him "easily destructible".
It's easy to poke something with a needle multiple times. This would kill Kirby, no?
What rule, and what's your point?
The rule that slower Pokemon, quote, "get to go first".
Slowpoke (Speed of 15) can use it on Mega Mewtwo (speed of 140).
What does that actually mean, exactly? "A speed stat of 15" doesn't really tell us much.
The descriptions. The properties of the moves.
Quote the descriptions in question.
At 9:35, he attacks in a different spot than where he hit Marx, and it launched him differently.
Do you have examples of that same enemy being hit in a different place, and launched differently as a result?
That's pure hyperbole. The only difference that you pointed out is that Meta Knight isn't made from magic, and that isn't even significant.
Meta Knight also doesn't just fly across the screen and then ditch Kirby. In Return to Dream Land, he stayed with Kirby throughout the whole adventure. Here, he just kills things and leaves.
I did, and I saw him fly right before touching the platform.
I didn't. Either way, the knockback dealt by the boost is much stronger.
How does that prove that Kirby's mouth isn't a portal?
Unless you're an alien, and you don't follow the physiology of a human.
Any life form would need some sort of internal organs to function.
Can you restate your argument?
I used the pistol/RPG analogy in relation to Kirby boss attacks. You said that "they're both guns", and I said that "they're both attacks [in the case of the Kirby bosses]".
Sun rays don't cause impact.
"Causing impact" simply means coming into contact with another thing. The rays come into contact with the skin.
A) I provided the link already. The timestamp is 13:35.
B) We are using the true power of each character. If Kirby did that every time, that would subtract from it. By the way, does Sonic ever use Chaos Control without saying its name? If not, that would apply here too.
A) That's only in one arc around Kirby; it doesn't protect all angles.
B) Yes, and?
Shadow does.
A) Something completely different. The boxer didn't get hit when he was stunned, his attack just got cancelled by another one.
B) Wheel Kirby doesn't need charge time.
A) I'm pretty sure that getting punched in the gut counts as getting hit.
B) It does to get its maximum speed, as shown in Air Ride.
Samus can't simply roll away from the attack, because the attack will follow.
The Boost Ball allows for quick movement in morph ball form. The Speed Booster/Shinespark could also buy her some time.
A) That's not good enough. I can find a video of Kirby inhaling and swallowing to copy powers; Dedede can inhale and swallow. Can Dedede copy powers?
B) Using the Spin Dash while boosting would also apply here.
A) Dedede has never used Inhale to copy things. Sonic has used Chaos Control to warp time.
B) How so?
If you're charging something, you are preparing for something to get done, and
How does that mean that having fun whilst charging is impossible?
The instance in gameplay doesn't fit the lore, meaning that the lore is something else.
How does the gameplay not fit the lore? The lore says "mountain", and Kirby chops a mountain.
Kirby is standing on Bowser. But no matter where he's standing, he can swing the blade at Bowser's fist.
Except he's too busy swinging at his arm to attempt chopping it off.
Jet Kirby moves at Mach 5 in the anime, because he used an attack from the games that's Mach 5.
Prove that it's the same attack (the charging one). The games say that Kirby must charge up to reach Mach 5 speeds.
His eyes are wide open, and he takes no damage in his health bar. Clearly, he doesn't take pain, and he isn't flinching.
Pain and flinching don't necessitate damage. We went over this.
That the telescope GIF doesn't disprove Octacon being in space, because the telescope in the anime was used for a different function.
The island is far away, and Octacon is far away. The telescope is being used to see far away things both times.
It's the speed that regular Kirby flies at.
Which isn't all that fast really.
He can fly over lasers traveling faster than the fireball.
Flying over something and dodging something at point-blank are two different actions.
It can destroy energy attacks. Golden fireballs are energy attacks.
Can it destroy energy attacks that cause everything they touch to turn into gold?
He can fly.
The shockwave goes through the air.
Kirby lives. Mario enemies die.
When does Kirby survive falling into a pool of lava?
If it were compressed, that would mean it had a lot of mass, meaning a lot of gravity.
I don't see any major increased gravity effects on Popstar (if anything, I'd say it's reduced a bit compared to earth).
It's still not incredibly fast. The bird form might be able to get some sort of thing done, but it's a random chance. Most of them are slow, so Kirby has a higher chance of being slow.
We see Mario instantly transform too.
The hat is falling onto Mario's head; he's jumping into it. If Mario picks up the hat on the ground, the proper animation plays out of Mario putting on the hat.

You were saying?
Large enough to do some major damage.
How much?
75,764,945.72 joules.
Nope. They'll defeat Mario, thus winning the battle.
Prove that they'll OHKO Mario (who is currently packing a durability-increasing power-up).
I see.
It would pretty much mean that all the stones are connected, and are recognized to be the same to everything.
In that case, are all fruits the same thing?
In order for the argument to work, we would need to see the physiology of a Pokemon, and how it gets energy.
In order for yours to work, we'd also need to see the insides of a Pokemon. It can't be proved either way, so it shouldn't be used as evidence for either side.
It accompanies it the story, meaning it's not a part of it.
When is it described as a "bonus" cutscene?
Force = mass x acceleration, not mass x speed.
A car crashing into you will certainly damage you. The same principle applies here.
It covered the entire planet in about a second.
And?
There was a bolt that hit the entire area Kirby was in, but he reacted to it and dodged it.
When was the bolt in the same place as Kirby?
Also, he jumped during each one, meaning reaction.
That's reflex, which won't do much good here.
Can I see a video?
Sure.
Offscreen.
This isn't proven.
He needed to get it back to the planet, not fight enemies with it.
If Olimar found something that could kill anything by ripping a hole in space-time, why wouldn't he use it?
Star Bits stay solid when there's gravity present.
And question blocks stay floating when gravity is present. Clearly the Mario universe has some rather selective laws of physics. :p
Thus, proving that Star Bits aren't energy. We clearly see that they're solid multiple times in the games.
When?
Because it's an unproven statement. If we allow it, we can let the Ice Climbers grow to the size of a planet, fly at the speed of light, and use universal attacks. When did the climbers show the limitation saying they can't do that?
Since they were human beings. The Ice Climbers never had the ability to do those things; Rosalina's wand has the ability to teleport and create force fields.
Except Rosalina can't attack with a black hole under most circumstances.
How come?
Official lore says the exact opposite.
Lore says it uses suction, which black holes do not.
Besides, Hypernova Kirby can inhale 200+ kilogram objects (according to Dryn). Rosalina is less.
He could definitely move her. What I'm wondering is if she would actually fit (or rather, if Hypernova could make her fit).
A) Combining two separate, unrelated feats doesn't prove anything.
B) There's plenty of starting lag where they don't travel anywhere.
A) The Lumas can go anywhere, and they can make black holes wherever they are. Combining these means that Lumas can make black holes anywhere (by going there and then transforming).
B) Maybe a second or two.
I only posted one.
When in the video, and could you clarify which one you're referring to (to avoid confusion)?
She lacks reaction time feats.
She could react to it during the charge-up.
Once more, she lacks reaction time feats.
^
That sentence is wrong in about ten different ways.
Care to elaoborate?
Same with this one.
Once again, mind explaining?
Proving nothing.
It proves that a black hole could be present on the battlefield, and that Rosalina could utilize them in battle.
Yeah, he has to hit it, which would be difficult and would waste time.
Why would he have to ht the sword?
Sonic isn't attacking though.
Why not?
Not if he wastes it by trying to hit Marth's things, and failing.
I'm sure Sonic can manage walking up to Marth, grabbing his sword, and attacking.
Sol/Lifesphere.
Those aren't constant.
Feral teeth.
Nothing about them being difficult to pull from an animal's jaw (or whatever it is that you said earlier).
Does being Super Sonic stop him from turning into Sonic the Werehog.
I'm not quite sure. Sonic uses the positive energies from the Chaos Emeralds to turn into Super Sonic (Sonic Adventure), and the Werehog form uses negative energies. Positive Chaos Emerald energies override negative ones (once again, Sonic Adventure), so I'd imagine that a similar thing would occur here.
How far can his arms stretch? His combat could be countered by Marth just using his blade to poke his hands.
Farther than a sword.
Something he was completely unaware of when he howled.
The planet split apart. I'm sure he knew that the planet needed defending.
It can take control of multiple opponents at once.
So can the Overmind, if I'm not mistaken.
It's also deity mind control.
The Chaos Emeralds are also deity-related.
Sonic and Silver also have access to Chaos Control, so that could have something to do with it.
Omega and Rouge don't.
Which isn't controlling the move.
Isn't it? It's enough to get the job done, at least.
Dark Mind corrupted the Mirror World using his evil.
How exactly does evil corrupt something?
It's a mirror. Force is irrelevant.
Powerful mirrors can penetrate mirrors.
Mario also has a variety of items and power-ups.
Though, Ness can beat Sonic too.
How would he go about doing that?
Timestamp please?
Explain it, then.
A) That isn't partial activation.
B) If there's lore saying that tearing down has infinite energy, then yes.
A) It's activating part of the computer setup.
B) Provide such lore for the crown-induced transformation, then.
No force is resisted there.
Then how is Marth not damaged?
The attacks do the most damage, and are used by the bosses to destroy objects.
When do they destroy planets?
He'd live after the time limit for time freezing was done.
Except Sonic already killed him.
The Rings are negated, so Super Sonic dies when the beam harms him.
Rings are more comparable to HP/PP than they are usable items.
Tails aren't alive either.
Really?
Which would lead to starting lag for the move (something that doesn't happen).
Starting lag doesn't exist in Pokemon.
I also imagine that Rollout would knock away the item whether it was in his mouth or tail.
Not with a strong grip.
The Monado.
Which doesn't always deliver universal attacks; they don't destroy the universe, or even OHKO the target.
So if I prefer Kirby to be taller than eight inches, he can be taller?
No, because that's stated throughout the game series and it makes some sense.
Which attacks?
The Hyper Flash, boost, etc.
Ah, yes. I don't believe it hits a single target more than once, but I don't see why it would need to.
Not sure about that one, to be honest.
I don't believe it is, so the attacks don't seem to be universal.
Magic Boomerang rule.
Explain to me how Wario can be both vulnerable and invincible at the same time.
You said Wario's invincibility was an outlier.
Yes, and the example you provided is irrelevant to this case. Reliability of a source =/= sending out armies.
Anyways, finally got around to creating a tier list, because why not? Wins for a character are to their right, and everyone in the rows below them.

View attachment 58180
I do like the idea of using a roster maker for these, but I don't think that the "they can beat anyone below and to the right" thing really works out. Toon Link beats Mega Man because of Magic Armor, Bowser beats the Kongs because of obvious reasons, Ganon beats Ness and Meta Knight because he can't be hit by them, etc etc.
 

LakuitaBro01

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 23, 2015
Messages
1
If you think about it, the Sinnoh Legendaries are the most powerful Nintendo charcaters, hell, they pass Rosalina.
Dialga can basically destroy time by using Roar of Time.
Palkia can rip a hole in reality via using Spacial Rend.
Giratina can rip a hole between dimensions as seen in Platinum.
Arceus basically created the universe and if you can create a universe you can sure as hell destroy it.
So yeah, THAT is how powerful each one of these pokemon are. Heck, Arceus is very close to being omnipotent, or in other words, able to destroy reality.
 

Crystanium

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
5,921
Location
California
I do like the idea of using a roster maker for these, but I don't think that the "they can beat anyone below and to the right" thing really works out. Toon Link beats Mega Man because of Magic Armor, Bowser beats the Kongs because of obvious reasons, Ganon beats Ness and Meta Knight because he can't be hit by them, etc etc.
Damn it. I accidentally closed this tab. All right, so I think the top three are Sonic, Samus, and Ganondorf. Sonic is impossible to hit by anyone. I think Samus may be able to hold her own, but she'd still likely lose. Ganondorf is also the strongest demon of his kind and while it may be possible that he could die from continuous attacks from light arrows, a weapon enchanted with anti-demon magic like the master sword is most effective.

What about Mega Man and Samus? Mega Man can stop time, but really, it's restricted. He can either stop time and be unable to do anything, or he can stop time and be restricted to firing his mega buster, which is supposed to be solar energy. Well, Samus has dealt with solar energy in Metroid Prime 2: Echoes. Lumites "can channel large amounts of solar energy into a deadly blast." Guess how much damage that causes Samus? Only 4 energy units. Never mind the fact that Samus' damage reduction is only 10% by this point. That's not at full capacity, nor is it even at 90%.

Does this mean that Mega Man's mega buster will only cause this much damage? No, but what it does show is the mechanics of lumites and Mega Man are similar. Also, that channeling reminds me of charging something, which I recall lumites do. Mega Man never charge in these games. Or at least from what I remember.
 
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