Who's Canonically the Strongest Character in Smash?

[Sodo]

The last time I posted in this thread was around 70 pages ago, and I never understood which iterations of characters we used. Because if we used "prime" versions, Shulk is a reality warper and post-Magicant Ness is extremely formidable. Are Kirby and Olimar normalized in size? It'd be easier if we had guidelines to work off of.

 

[Munomario777]

The last time I posted in this thread was around 70 pages ago, and I never understood which iterations of characters we used. Because if we used "prime" versions, Shulk is a reality warper and post-Magicant Ness is extremely formidable. Are Kirby and Olimar normalized in size? It'd be easier if we had guidelines to work off of.

We're taking all characters at their best state, and combining their attributes from all appearances (including different incarnations of Link etc). Kirby and Olimar have their sizes of eight inches and a coin respectively, since that's how it is in canon. Shulk's "reality warping" has been discussed before, but basically, that was more Alvis's feat than Shulk's, so we don't count it here. Welcome back to the thread!

 

[Sodo]

We're taking all characters at their best state, and combining their attributes from all appearances (including different incarnations of Link etc). Kirby and Olimar have their sizes of eight inches and a coin respectively, since that's how it is in canon. Shulk's "reality warping" has been discussed before, but basically, that was more Alvis's feat than Shulk's, so we don't count it here. Welcome back to the thread!

Spoiler

Technically, and I haven't explored this much, but wasn't Shulk a god even if it was for a brief time before he allowed Alvis to basically redo everything without gods? Not that Shulk wasn't a god, but he just didn't want to be one anymore.

Because if that's the case, he's still far and away the most powerful.

 

[Munomario777]

Spoiler

Technically, and I haven't explored this much, but wasn't Shulk a god even if it was for a brief time before he allowed Alvis to basically redo everything without gods? Not that Shulk wasn't a god, but he just didn't want to be one anymore.

Because if that's the case, he's still far and away the most powerful.

I'd say he was only a "god" in terms of authority, somewhat like a king. He had authority over Alvis, so he told him to do it and he did. Either way, Shulk doesn't want to be a god, so we shouldn't treat him as one here (as we are taking personalities and such into account).

 

[Sodo]

I'd say he was only a "god" in terms of authority, somewhat like a king. He had authority over Alvis, so he told him to do it and he did. Either way, Shulk doesn't want to be a god, so we shouldn't treat him as one here (as we are taking personalities and such into account).

I get the reasoning behind that, but if we're taking their most powerful incarnations, that brief moment in time would still be Shulk's strongest. And, assuming morals are on, you would be right and he'd fight fair to the best of his abilities (he'd still be at least Cosmic level or close, however, which is better than the majority of the cast). With morals off, he would just blink and everyone would be massacred when his eyelids touched.

Again, the debate rules weren't clear and there's a lot of gray area as a result.

 

[Munomario777]

I get the reasoning behind that, but if we're taking their most powerful incarnations, that brief moment in time would still be Shulk's strongest. And, assuming morals are on, you would be right and he'd fight fair to the best of his abilities (he'd still be at least Cosmic level or close, however, which is better than the majority of the cast). With morals off, he would just blink and everyone would be massacred when his eyelids touched.

The feat isn't Shulk's anyway (it's more Alvis's), so it's not really worth discussing IMO.

Again, the debate rules weren't clear and there's a lot of gray area as a result.

Do you mean just in the OP? We've been compiling some additional rules and such for a while now.

 

[Sodo]

The feat isn't Shulk's anyway (it's more Alvis's), so it's not really worth discussing IMO.

Do you mean just in the OP? We've been compiling some additional rules and such for a while now.

Either way,

Spoiler

Shulk becomes a god when he wields Monado III and ends Zanza.

That's what I gathered, anyway. I would assume he could do anything he wanted at that point, but chose not to as we just discussed. Regardless of whether we agree on that point, vanilla Shulk still has precognition and a variety of other abilities that make most of the cast obsolete.

And yeah, there's no parameters set. What are the rules? Morals on/off? Is battlefield removal allowed?

 

[Munomario777]

Either way,

Spoiler

Shulk becomes a god when he wields Monado III and ends Zanza.

That's what I gathered, anyway. I would assume he could do anything he wanted at that point, but chose not to as we just discussed.

What makes you say that he was omnipotent?

Regardless of whether we agree on that point, vanilla Shulk still has precognition and a variety of other abilities that make most of the cast obsolete.

It's debatable.

And yeah, there's no parameters set. What are the rules? Morals on/off? Is battlefield removal allowed?

You can find that sort of thing a bit earlier in the thread. ShadowLBlue keeps the rules list compiled, and Nerdicon posted an arena description a while back that most of us agree with.

 

[Sodo]

What makes you say that he was omnipotent?

It's debatable.

You can find that sort of thing a bit earlier in the thread. ShadowLBlue keeps the rules list compiled, and Nerdicon posted an arena description a while back that most of us agree with.

Spoiler

He had the Monado III. The Monado is a reality warping device, and he had just killed the god who had created it. Until he asked Alvis for a world with no gods, he could have done whatever he wanted.

I guess that's speculation, but it makes sense.
Precognition alone eliminates all but at least Cosmic level fighters. Name someone under that level that could beat Shulk, feasibly.
I'll find the rules list later, but I've been inclined to say Shulk is the strongest (and it's not close) for a while and I don't even like him.

 

[Munomario777]

Spoiler

He had the Monado III. The Monado is a reality warping device, and he had just killed the god who had created it. Until he asked Alvis for a world with no gods, he could have done whatever he wanted.

I guess that's speculation, but it makes sense.

Spoiler

When does Shulk use the Monado III to warp reality?

Precognition alone eliminates all but at least Cosmic level fighters. Name someone under that level that could beat Shulk, feasibly.

Define "cosmic level". I'll list off some fighters I feel could defeat Shulk (at least based on my knowledge). I'd be glad to explain in more detail if you ask.
(Giant Bowser crushes Shulk in one hit, and visions won't help if he can't get out of the way in time)
(Blue Falcon's speed is way too much for Shulk to react to)
(vehicle with lasers and bombs < no vehicle)
(see Falco)
? (extreme durability even against his holy weapon weakness, but Shulk has one of those)
(decent durability and is a hard target thanks to being small, and Hypernova and the Warp Star give him quite the edge)
(Chateau Romani + Magic Armor = 3 day invincibility = win)
(Mega Mushroom; see Bowser)
(see Luigi)
(immune to all non-dragon attacks thanks to his sword, and Darksphere prevents foes from attacking via a form of mind control)
(can stop time to prepare an attack or dodge Shulk's, which is in a sense better than visions)
(Mega Mewtwo is extremely powerful, and in the anime even regular Mewtwo is a force to be reckoned with)
(while the name of "goddess" doesn't mean much, she still has the Powers which are very, well, powerful)
(god slayer, and has the various weapons to help him out)
(black hole. /battle)
(Power Bomb. /battle)
(Moves at hypersonic speeds, is invincible via Super Sonic, and the other things I've been saying for a while now)
(Doesn't have Chateau Romani, but still has the Magic Armor for invincibility)

I'll find the rules list later, but I've been inclined to say Shulk is the strongest (and it's not close) for a while and I don't even like him.

I'm a proponent of Sonic myself. I compiled a list of his abilities a while back if you're interested.

 

[Sodo]

Speedblitz fodder (a.k.a no chance)


Can put up a fight but still get 10/10'd by Shulk


Actually stand a chance/can possibly win with prep time (a.k.a Universal level and above at peak)
(Triforce)(post-Magicant)/(Sacred Treasures, etc.)

Splits with Shulk 5/5
(Universal reality warper)

 

[Munomario777]

Looks like I'll need to go into more detail.

Speedblitz fodder (a.k.a no chance)

Bowser's durability (especially in his giant form) is immense, and his size would aloow him to crush someone like Shulk.

The Blue Falcon can travel at 457 km/h. Seeing the future is well and good and all, but can Shulk actually physically dodge things of that speed?

If I'm not mistaken, Mewtwo's giant laser beams can destroy entire islands. Has Shulk shown that level of durability?

Explain to me how Shulk would survive a Power Bomb (and the gunship as well; see Captain Falcon).

Magic Armor makes them invincible.

Explain how Shulk would deal with the invincible Mega Mushroom form.

Can put up a fight but still get 10/10'd by Shulk

Explain how Shulk survives the Mega Laser (which activates practically instantly and has multiple uses).

Sonic can move at hypersonic speeds. At a low end, that's Mach 5.5. At a high end, it can be up to Mach 25, but I'll work with 5.5 for now. That's 4,186 miles per hour, or fast enough to cross the entire ten-mile-wide arena in about eight seconds, or cross ten yards (about the distance the combatants start from one another) in less than a hundredth of a second, literally quicker than the blink of an eye. And that's not even taking into account the boost (which enhances Sonic's speed even further), the Light Speed Attack (does what it says on the tin), and the fact that Sonic can freeze time at will. Explain to me how Shulk is supposed to win this fight.

Splits with Shulk 5/5

(Universal reality warper)

How is Shulk supposed to complete with an OHKO black hole?

No offense or anything of course, but I highly doubt that Shulk could defeat everyone you say that he could.

 

[Sodo]

No offense or anything of course, but I highly doubt that Shulk could defeat everyone you say that he could.

Of course no offense taken. We're discussing video game characters fighting each other canonically haha! This is purely for entertainment.

Anyways, I get some of your arguments for character abilities. I just don't really see anybody beating Shulk without extensive prep time. I get that you like Sonic and you think he's super powerful, which he is, but he's a step or three below what Shulk can do. It doesn't matter how fast or strong or durable he is. Shulk is a reality warper and with Monado III he's basically unstoppable. Rosalina would likely split 5/5 with him, LoZ characters with full Triforce can do the same, etc.

Shulk, even with morals on, could solo basically the entire cast. Only Rosalina would likely be resistant to his power, and even then who knows what exactly would happen in a battle between them? It gets really abstract at that point.

 

[Munomario777]

Of course no offense taken. We're discussing video game characters fighting each other canonically haha! This is purely for entertainment.

Right, of course.

Anyways, I get some of your arguments for character abilities. I just don't really see anybody beating Shulk without extensive prep time. I get that you like Sonic and you think he's super powerful, which he is, but he's a step or three below what Shulk can do. It doesn't matter how fast or strong or durable he is. Shulk is a reality warper and with Monado III he's basically unstoppable. Rosalina would likely split 5/5 with him, LoZ characters with full Triforce can do the same, etc.

Shulk, even with morals on, could solo basically the entire cast. Only Rosalina would likely be resistant to his power, and even then who knows what exactly would happen in a battle between them? It gets really abstract at that point.

What exactly has Shulk done with these "reality warping" powers? It's too vague to really treat as an ability unless we can get more detailed. For all I know, "reality warping" could mean conjuring cheese out of thin air. (I highly doubt that, of course, but you get the point. )

 

[Sodo]

Right, of course.

What exactly has Shulk done with these "reality warping" powers? It's too vague to really treat as an ability unless we can get more detailed. For all I know, "reality warping" could mean conjuring cheese out of thin air. (I highly doubt that, of course, but you get the point. )

The Monado itself is a reality warping device. It allows the user to manipulate the energy and material around it. You can see where every particle is, was, and where it will be, as well as alter it.

Spoiler

Shulk becomes a god after killing Zanza, I found the final cutscene where Alvis explains it. It's also explained in-game that as mastery of the Monado grows, so does the power of the wielder. Essentially, Shulk after killing a future-seeing god became virtually omnipotent.

In the case of Shulk, no one stands a chance besides Rosalina at this point. And even when I was so sure before that she'd split with him, I'm now skeptical.

 

[Munomario777]

The Monado itself is a reality warping device. It allows the user to manipulate the energy and material around it. You can see where every particle is, was, and where it will be, as well as alter it.

Again, I ask. When does Shulk do this, and how exactly does he do it? I simply cannot take this into account until I know the specifics.

Spoiler

Shulk becomes a god after killing Zanza, I found the final cutscene where Alvis explains it. It's also explained in-game that as mastery of the Monado grows, so does the power of the wielder. Essentially, Shulk after killing a future-seeing god became virtually omnipotent.

Spoiler

As Kid Icarus shows us, being a "god" (or killing one) can't always be taken as a form of power. You'd need to give specifics on what exactly Shulk does as a "god" (besides the universe reset thing that Alvis helps him with of course).

 

[Geno Boost]

Anybody saw ryu real power in asura wrath?http://youtu.be/8wks1GrqTFo So wich character from ssb4 do you think can beat ryu?

 

[Munomario777]

Anybody saw ryu real power in asura wrath?http://youtu.be/8wks1GrqTFo So wich character from ssb4 do you think can beat ryu?

A lot of them. Can Ryu activate this at will? It seems like it was a result of his opponent.

 

[Crystanium]

So, Shulk has the ability called "vision". Is this reliant on the existence of ether? If so, then it won't be reliable here, unless there is something in the rest of the roster that shares the properties of ether. In the cut-scene against Gadolt, Shulk says, "That's the second time I've sensed an attack without seeing a vision first." I'm not sure what to make of this because Shulk saw Gadolt coming his way and then deflected some energy orb. That itself wouldn't rely on precognition.

I'm not sure when the first time Shulk experiences this without a vision first, but perhaps if we saw this, it'd give us an idea of how it functions. I'm still not sure if this relies on ether. Also, it's interesting to note that Shulk says, "The Monado can't cut people." Is there any instance where this is contradicted? "People" here likely means "human beings in general". (OED) Also, is the Monado reliant on ether as a whole? The universe in Xenoblade must be pervaded with ether.

So this all really comes down to whether or not any character on the roster has anything like ether in their own universe. If not, then Shulk's abilities are rendered useless, except when it's used on himself. I don't think Shulk has any counter-measures against Samus' speed. Her sense move against his vision is better because her reaction time is lower, at least anywhere between 2 to 10 milliseconds. She can counter Shulk in close-combat and her beams range anywhere from high supersonic to light speed. (Super missiles move faster than Samus' shinespark, which is calculated to be Mach 2, while her top running speed is Mach 1.41.)

A single power bomb would produce 396.96 tons of TNT, if we work only with Samus being in the center of Room MW, or 3 kilotons if we use the fact that half of the power bomb can cover 30 meters, or a total of 60 meters when considering the whole blast radius. I don't think Link should be given infinite magic because the young Link incarnation is the only one who drinks the Chateau Romani.

Anybody saw ryu real power in asura wrath?http://youtu.be/8wks1GrqTFo So wich character from ssb4 do you think can beat ryu?

I heard that wasn't actually canon. With Ryu as an addition to the series, we should consider his feats.

 

[Munomario777]

I don't think Link should be given infinite magic because the young Link incarnation is the only one who drinks the Chateau Romani.

We're using a composite form, however.

 

[Crystanium]

We're using a composite form, however.

Yeah, but adult Link is not child Link.

 

[Munomario777]

Yeah, but adult Link is not child Link.

But Composite Link encompasses both.

 

[Crystanium]

But Composite Link encompasses both.

Then why do we have Link and Toon Link on the roster? Why do we have Young Link as well if we're using all of the characters throughout the Super Smash Bros. series?

 

[Munomario777]

Then why do we have Link and Toon Link on the roster? Why do we have Young Link as well if we're using all of the characters throughout the Super Smash Bros. series?

They count as the separate Links that they represent (Ocarina/MM and TWW) if we even choose to use them, and regular Link could also count for TP I suppose. It is a bit redundant, but so is having Charizard and the Trainer separate.

 

[Crystanium]

They count as the separate Links that they represent (Ocarina/MM and TWW) if we even choose to use them, and regular Link could also count for TP I suppose. It is a bit redundant, but so is having Charizard and the Trainer separate.

Well, we should get rid of Toon and Young Link. There's more than one trainer and more than one Charizard, and Charizards tend to have the same abilities anyway.

 

[Munomario777]

Well, we should get rid of Toon and Young Link. There's more than one trainer and more than one Charizard, and Charizards tend to have the same abilities anyway.

I think we should keep them, since they are Smash characters. Of course, it should be up to each person whether or not they'd like to include them in tier lists and the like.

 

[Crystanium]

I think we should keep them, since they are Smash characters. Of course, it should be up to each person whether or not they'd like to include them in tier lists and the like.

I think if we're going to have them, we should just separate adult from child. Anyway, is the Pokemon series canon? When has Mewtwo actually fire a large beam?

 

[Munomario777]

I think if we're going to have them, we should just separate adult from child.

I think we should have the three Links from Smash in addition to an all-encompassing composite Link. You can, of course, do whatever you want to however.

Anyway, is the Pokemon series canon?

Yes, but the games take priority.

When has Mewtwo actually fire a large beam?

I believe KD brought it up. Here's an image; it seems to be from when he was first created in the lab, and it destroyed a majority of the island (at least, that's what my research has found).

 

[Crystanium]

Yes, but the games take priority.

I believe KD brought it up. Here's an image; it seems to be from when he was first created in the lab, and it destroyed a majority of the island (at least, that's what my research has found).

Let me rephrase that. Has Mewtwo ever done that in any of the Pokemon games? (I haven't played since Sapphire.) Furthermore, is this part of Mewtwo's MO? If not, then it shouldn't be considered here.

 

[Munomario777]

Let me rephrase that. Has Mewtwo ever done that in any of the Pokemon games? (I haven't played since Sapphire.)

I don't believe so. (I'd imagine it would be pretty game breaking if he did. )

Furthermore, is this part of Mewtwo's MO? If not, then it shouldn't be considered here.

What do you mean by MO?

 

[Crystanium]

What do you mean by MO?

Modus operandi, or the way Mewtwo operates. In other words, is this something Mewtwo actively does or is known to do a number of times to even consider? It's a question of Mewtwo's character, much like a question of everyone's character. Characters have abilities, but they use some abilities more than others. For example, is it Samus' MO to freeze her enemy and shatter them with a missile? Yes! The official Metroid Web site confirms this. Apparently, using the shinespark in battle is, too, as Samus uses the shinespark against Nightmare in Metroid: Other M.

 

[Sodo]

Again, I ask. When does Shulk do this, and how exactly does he do it? I simply cannot take this into account until I know the specifics.[/spoiler]

Everything Shulk does with the Monado is reality warping. Even at the beginning of the game, Alvis tells Shulk that the Monado I is powerful enough to affect the very fabric of the universe in the right hands.

Spoiler

With the Monado III, Shulk prevented the then limitless and future-seeing Zanza from basically "unmaking" the universe. When Shulk killed Zanza, he became a god and Alvis asked him what he wanted to do. Feasibly, Shulk could've done anything he wanted. But he didn't want to be a god.

So, basically Shulk blinkstomps anybody that can't resist universal reality warping. So, maybe Rosalina and Ganon/Ness with prep. Either way, he still beats them.

 

[Munomario777]

Modus operandi, or the way Mewtwo operates. In other words, is this something Mewtwo actively does or is known to do a number of times to even consider? It's a question of Mewtwo's character, much like a question of everyone's character. Characters have abilities, but they use some abilities more than others. For example, is it Samus' MO to freeze her enemy and shatter them with a missile? Yes! The official Metroid Web site confirms this. Apparently, using the shinespark in battle is, too, as Samus uses the shinespark against Nightmare in Metroid: Other M.

Ah, I see. I've heard that he may have done this another time, but I'm not sure.

Everything Shulk does with the Monado is reality warping.

And what exactly does Shulk do with the Monado? You're not answering my questions.

Even at the beginning of the game, Alvis tells Shulk that the Monado I is powerful enough to affect the very fabric of the universe in the right hands.

Has Shulk been shown to be those "right hands"?

Spoiler

With the Monado III, Shulk prevented the then limitless and future-seeing Zanza from basically "unmaking" the universe. When Shulk killed Zanza, he became a god and Alvis asked him what he wanted to do. Feasibly, Shulk could've done anything he wanted. But he didn't want to be a god.

Spoiler

Shulk had the ability to do anything because of Alvis, who isn't present in this battle (no ally assistance).

 

[Sodo]

And what exactly does Shulk do with the Monado? You're not answering my questions.

Has Shulk been shown to be those "right hands"?

Spoiler

Shulk had the ability to do anything because of Alvis, who isn't present in this battle (no ally assistance).

Everything Shulk does with the Monado is reality warping. It grants him active precognition (which, even without godhood, would allow him to solo most of the cast minus the Cosmic/Universal levels), and the lower Monado abilities available (Speed, Shield, Buster being the mundane ones, and then you get stuff like Purge which strips the target of their enhanced abilities). The higher levels of the Monado's abilities are the stuff that allowed

Spoiler

Zanza, and later Shulk, to literally do whatever they wished, which is reality warping on a universal level, far and away the most impressive feat by a canon Smash character.

Yes, Shulk's hands are the "right hands". That's how he stopped

Spoiler

Zanza from just destroying the universe after becoming free once again and eventually killed him, the literal creator of the universe, in battle.

And no, it is basically said at the end of the game that Alvis is

Spoiler

the "computer" behind the "real world" but Zanza is the one who created the universe as Klaus. Shulk killing him literally granted him godhood. As in, he destroyed the one who created the universe.

 

[Munomario777]

Everything Shulk does with the Monado is reality warping. It grants him active precognition (which, even without godhood, would allow him to solo most of the cast minus the Cosmic/Universal levels), and the lower Monado abilities available (Speed, Shield, Buster being the mundane ones, and then you get stuff like Purge which strips the target of their enhanced abilities).

We knew that already. When does he singlehandedly warp reality to the point of omnipotence?

The higher levels of the Monado's abilities are the stuff that allowed

Spoiler

Zanza, and later Shulk, to literally do whatever they wished, which is reality warping on a universal level, far and away the most impressive feat by a canon Smash character.

When is it stated that Shulk has the ability to do whatever he wishes? Could you provide an exact quote?

Yes, Shulk's hands are the "right hands". That's how he stopped

Spoiler

Zanza from just destroying the universe after becoming free once again and eventually killed him, the literal creator of the universe, in battle.

Has Shulk ever "affected the fabric of the universe" like you say he can?

And no, it is basically said at the end of the game that Alvis is

Spoiler

the "computer" behind the "real world" but Zanza is the one who created the universe as Klaus. Shulk killing him literally granted him godhood. As in, he destroyed the one who created the universe.

Spoiler

Killing someone who created the universe doesn't automatically grant you the ability to alter the fabric of the universe (unless killing Zanza "opened up" something that allowed Shulk to take that place, but that's only applicable in that universe/situation, not this one). Alvis is the "computer" that Shulk had to use, but he counts as an ally, so he cannot be used here.

 

[Sodo]

We knew that already. When does he singlehandedly warp reality to the point of omnipotence?

When is it stated that Shulk has the ability to do whatever he wishes? Could you provide an exact quote?

Has Shulk ever "affected the fabric of the universe" like you say he can?

Spoiler

Killing someone who created the universe doesn't automatically grant you the ability to alter the fabric of the universe (unless killing Zanza "opened up" something that allowed Shulk to take that place, but that's only applicable in that universe/situation, not this one). Alvis is the "computer" that Shulk had to use, but he counts as an ally, so he cannot be used here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtcfMP_72zg&feature=youtu.be

I wasn't about to record it on my screen, but thankfully I found it online. This should answer your questions, the whole video is useful but the 6 minute mark contains the bulk of it. Shulk is referred to as "Creator" and knows himself that he is a god already. If any character from Smash had attacked him during this cutscene, they would be wiped from existence. Alvis has nothing to do with Shulk's power at this point, he voluntarily gives up godhood for the sake of the new world.

Given this knowledge, it's safe to say and pretty decisive in my eyes that Shulk not only blinkstomps anybody from the Smash cast, but could do it to all of them at once if he wanted to. Shulk in that iteration is a universal reality warper and is far and away stronger than anyone else on the roster.

 

[Munomario777]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtcfMP_72zg&feature=youtu.be

I wasn't about to record it on my screen, but thankfully I found it online. This should answer your questions, the whole video is useful but the 6 minute mark contains the bulk of it. Shulk is referred to as "Creator" and knows himself that he is a god already. If any character from Smash had attacked him during this cutscene, they would be wiped from existence. Alvis has nothing to do with Shulk's power at this point, he voluntarily gives up godhood for the sake of the new world.

Given this knowledge, it's safe to say and pretty decisive in my eyes that Shulk not only blinkstomps anybody from the Smash cast, but could do it to all of them at once if he wanted to. Shulk in that iteration is a universal reality warper and is far and away stronger than anyone else on the roster.

"The choice is yours." "Tell me your decision." The choice is Shulk's, but not the power. The power belongs to Alvis, which is why Shulk has to tell Alvis his decision (as a king commands an army). Shulk also words it by saying that he "wishes" for ____. It's like he's commanding a genie. In addition, all Shulk seems to do is state his "wish" and throw the sword up into the air, whereas the beams of light (presumably representing the power) stems from Alvis (I assume he's represented by the three floating swords). Shulk has the authority to change the world, but not the actual power to do so.

 

[Crystanium]

Everything Shulk does with the Monado is reality warping.

If this ability relies on ether, then Shulk isn't going to be able to harm anyone unless there is something like ether these other universes. You also didn't answer my question about the Monado being unable to harm humans.

So, basically Shulk blinkstomps anybody that can't resist universal reality warping. So, maybe Rosalina and Ganon/Ness with prep. Either way, he still beats them.

So if Shulk didn't want to be

Spoiler

a god

, then it's not part of his MO to go around reality warping people off the face of the planet.

Everything Shulk does with the Monado is reality warping.

If this ability relies on ether, then Shulk isn't going to be able to harm anyone unless there is something like ether these other universes. You also didn't answer my question about the Monado being unable to harm humans.

So, basically Shulk blinkstomps anybody that can't resist universal reality warping. So, maybe Rosalina and Ganon/Ness with prep. Either way, he still beats them.

So if Shulk didn't want to be

Spoiler

a god

, then it's not part of his MO to go around reality warping people off the face of the planet.

It grants him active precognition (which, even without godhood, would allow him to solo most of the cast minus the Cosmic/Universal levels),

You've yet to prove this. Samus has precognition of her own. She's able to react faster than Shulk, having a reaction time ranging anywhere between 2 to 10 milliseconds. If Shulk can't keep up with that, then Samus' reaction time is going to counter vision. Besides, just because Shulk can experience vision doesn't mean he can do anything about it, as in the case when Fiora tried stopping Metal Face and something terrible happened to her. Again, does vision rely on ether of the opponent? If so, vision is rendered meaningless unless the opponent has a the properties of ether within him/her.

Purge which strips the target of their enhanced abilities).

Monado Purge removes the opponent's aura. Unless Shulk's opponent has an aura (and if we're using elemental compatibility here to equalize everything), it won't work.

The higher levels of the Monado's abilities are the stuff that allowed

Spoiler

Zanza, and later Shulk, to literally do whatever they wished, which is reality warping on a universal level, far and away the most impressive feat by a canon Smash character.

What's the "higher levels"?

Also, again, if Shulk gave up godhood, then we can pass that off in this match.

 

[Munomario777]

@Dryn

I'm not too knowledgeable on Xenoblade, but I might be able to answer some of your questions.

At the beginning of the game, the Monado cannot harm humans, but I believe this restriction is removed later on (or with another iteration of the Monado).

I'm seeing the Monado described as, quote, "a powerful energy blade that can manipulate the ether around it, and by doing so, change the material and immaterial shape of the world." So it does seem to rely on ether, meaning that most fighters here would be immune.

Similarly, Visions are described as using ether as well. "The Monado grants its elected wielder the power of foresight. It is said that this is possible because all of the ether in the world is calculable in its changes. This allows the user to see where every ether particle is, was, and will be."

Spoiler

So even if Shulk did have the power to singlehandedly reshape his own universe, its unique properties make those powers immune in these battles, where the arenas are completely neutral to all fighters and don't grant any environmental advantages (including ether).

 

[Crystanium]

Thanks, @ Munomario777 . Well, I watched the ending of the video and

Spoiler

Shulk wishes there weren't any gods in the new universe. At no point did I see Shulk attain godhood, nor did I see him personally be the one to recreate the universe.

Shulk needs to rely on another way of winning. Unless we can define "ether" and find its properties and compare it to other universes (or use elemental compatibility for equal matches), Shulk doesn't have much going for him.