Who needs help with Combos, Damages, Advanced Tactics for Falco, etc.

[demon itachi]

thanks !!!! i liked this vid of shiz and some other people in google video. the link is http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1983938258781547468&q=falco+combo+video

 

[Metal Reeper]

wow awesome video nice combos i wish i could waveshine liek u i gotta get better at that

thanks !!!! i liked this vid of shiz and some other people in google video. the link is http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1983938258781547468&q=falco+combo+video

 

[Metal Reeper]

hey if u want more comments on yer vid upload it to youtube.com there's tons of ppl searching for combo vids per day im sure they'll liek yers

thanks !!!! i liked this vid of shiz and some other people in google video. the link is http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1983938258781547468&q=falco+combo+video

 

[JiggsIsMyHero]

Heya Shiz... Very nice Falco! I've been playing the bird since May (around the time I started REALLY taking Smash seriously) and I feel like I've come a long way. While I wouldn't say that I'm at your calibur at all I think I'm gettin really good. But I have some questions:

1) I find that even though I can usually stand up to almost any challenger pretty well no matter how good they are that some of the hardest matches for me are against people who aren't really as good as I am at all. They play slower than I do and constantly just sit around waiting for the shield grab because they can't deal with the shl, etc... But the shield grab KILLS me! I mean, I know how to shffl dairs into shines (pillar) and I know that that's supposed to stop the shield grab but against people who I play regularly it doesn't seem to work. Theyget through the pillar and still piss me off with constant grabbing routinely. Any advice on how to play slower players (not characters), how to play people who shield-grab a ton or how to play conservative/defensive people who make me approach them?

2) Before watching your vids I thought it was almost never a good idea to use Falco's dash attack because shffled nairs work so **** well, but you use the dash quite a lot. Any thoughts on when to use one versus the other?

3) I evade (side-step dodge) ALOT! You don't seem to that much, but shine in a lot of places I would evade... Any reasons? Seems like if I tried to do that I would get hit a bit more.

4) Any thoughts on hot wo play v. Samus? I find he's one of my toughest matches but out where I play (WNY) everyone talks about what a terrible match that is for Samus... I know you said he's one of your least favorite match-ups and I couldn't agree more, so maybe you could share your Samus meta-game with us.

I guess that's enough questions. Thanks for the time.

 

[FuFu300]

I'm trying to learn how to use Falco competitively... but those videos are just amazing...

How would you suggest improving my comboes/mindgames if you don't know anyone that lives close to you(like coming over to your house to play) that can play Smash really good? Most of the people I have access to aren't good... my 9 year old brother is the best person I can find, and he rarely plays.

 

[DaShizWiz]

JiggsIsMyHero, what you should do vs People that are very slow and Do lots of shield grabbing/stuff that is unexpected as well:

1. You should Grab them a whole bunch while they're shield grabbing, believe me they will never shield as much again. If they just camp in one area waiting for you to come to them, don't forget, your the one whos falco. Spam them, that crap pisses me off so I'm like ohhhh ok so you want to sit there huh? Spam the **** out of them and don't feel sorry. So what you want to do vs Shielders is Grab them a whole bunch, throw em up, and then hit them in the air.

2. What you should do vs Samus is not even try to combo her, you should Do a Nair to shine and then Do a Uair and keep repeating this. If they just crouch cancel, then you should mindgame your shine and then after you hit that shine on them, do a uair. If they're a missle spamming samus then you can approach them with Nairs, it breaks they're missles and it will hit the opponent. And spam lasers vs campy/gay/crouch canceling samuses.

If you have any more questions I'll help you.

FuFu300

Thanks for the props.

What I would suggest to get your Falco more competitive/better comboes/mindgames.

Combos: Depends which char your playing, but I do know for a Fact falco can combo almost any char in the game. If you playing against a fast faller (Fox, Falco, CF) you will want to shuffle Nairs to a shine. But if they get used to your style, start playing more smart and doing more random things. Like after doing a nair to a shine, do a nair to a shine to a dair to a shine. (Dair to shine IMO works really good for comboing fast fallers).

Mindgames: Try to mindgame your shine, trick your opponent. If they're just too smart for you then jump around the field untill you find an open spot where you can get in a shine, usually for advanced comboing falcos, once you get that shine in, they're done. Or if you can't get that shine in, become random. Grab them throw them up/down/behind/forward and then try to get a shine in that way, do anything that will work (Thats what I mean by random, do anything that will work.)

Playing: Well, I play my brother usually, I'd say he's one of the best in Florida if not the best in Florida, I play his Fox alot even though his main is sheik. So I have really good practice vs Sheik/Fox/Marth/CF/ and other chars. But what does help your playing skills a lot is going to MLG's and huge tournaments with pros. Be sure to play the pros it gets you much better. Ever since I got back from FC6, I've been getting Top 3 in my FL tournaments.

Metal Reaper

Lol, I didn't even know people had seen that combo vid. My friend lucas made that, but the combos I did in that were ok, I have much better footage now that I havn't released. But I lost it rescently because my computer just got system restored a couple of days ago. Thanks for saying that you liked my combos though .

 

[FuFu300]

Thanks a lot for the help, I'll be sure to keep that in mind. I'll try and persuade my little brother to battle me more often, I think he is just tired of losing. I'm not trying to brag seriously, but even though he is the best person I have, he isn't really all that good...

What is an MLG?

I'll be heading to a tournament either Nov. 18th or Nov. 26th, so maybe I will gain some experience in mindgames there. I don't know how far I will advance since it is my first tournament, but I hope I face at least one person at a semi-pro level. And I'm only 13, so I can't really go to any place just by myself to play Smash with random people I "met" over the Internet

 

[B-RaD]

Any advice for fighting people that jump around a lot?

 

[JiggsIsMyHero]

Thanks much, Shiz... That looks like sound advice. I literately just broke into tournament play about a month ago so I may just take you up on that offer for help as I come into contact with more troubles with Falco.

 

[HARDKOREan]

Shiz the one thing I've been dying to ask you is how do you jump back air or jump down air out of your shines so fast? It's almost instant. That's one thing I can't do. I can do it really fast, but instant.

I think i can answer that. You basically have to jump rite after you do your shine. if you do it a second later, you have to wait for your shine to finish and then jump (So basically, if you didn't jump rite away, it causes a lag). So yeah, SHIZWIZ is rite, you need fast fingers.

Heh, something I figured I'd ask. Although I'm consistent with virtually all technical aspects of Falco, I'm still admittedly inexperienced (mere 6 months of even knowing what Smash was), and I have a bad tendency to lose my focus when I'm under the pressure of insanely fast-approaching opponents. I was curious as to any particular tactics you'd recommend for countering players who make very quick approaches (such as competent fox players or other falcos), or perhaps just any reliable technique to get me out of a close-range fight I'm unprepared for without totally sacrificing my ability to control the map. If that question actually made enough sense for you to answer it, many thanks.

Wavedash is your friend. Use it like you would use your real friends. hahaha.






For me however, I need help on something basic, SHL. I dunno about you guys, but when i see pros play wit falco and use that move, it seems much faster when they do it than when i do it. I short hop and then do the laser (hence the name), but it's uber slow. When I try to add a fast fall and an L cancel at the end, the laser won't shoot. So, can you help me wit my predicament?

 

[festizzio]

I've got a quick question, how useful is the ledge wavedash with Falco? Is it just a waste of time? i.e. are there better options?

 

[kidprecision]

Its faster than short hopping onto the ledge.

 

[Nike]

For me however, I need help on something basic, SHL. I dunno about you guys, but when i see pros play wit falco and use that move, it seems much faster when they do it than when i do it. I short hop and then do the laser (hence the name), but it's uber slow. When I try to add a fast fall and an L cancel at the end, the laser won't shoot. So, can you help me wit my predicament?

(sry Shiz if i'm stealing ur thunder.) You can't l-cancel lasers. you can only l-cancel most aerials. You do however want to fast fall, to make it quicker and to be able to hit shorter opponents. If your laser isn't shooting when u add fast falling it's prolly cuz ur pressing b 2 late. you pretty much wanna press b asap. but also if u slightly delay, and i mean very slightly, u can get really low to the ground lasers. hope this helps

 

[demon itachi]

is it better to get your lazrs closer to the ground cuz they could easily jump over it. i usually make mine hit marth in the head with out fast fall so it hits them right in the middle (i love shooting marth in the face )

 

[JiggsIsMyHero]

Actually... With a little practice you can (kinda) alternate high and low lasers and get the positive effects of both. High lasers lock up people who are trying to jump over the laser spam if they don't jump soon enough, and low lasers peg people who get the brilliant idea that they're just gonna crouch under the lasers for a while (which is a bad idea, IMO, since you can just continue to shoot them from afar like that and then wtf are they gonna do? But hey, people do it all the **** time.)

Actually, spending the time to learn how to control the exact height of your lasers if unbelievably useful for teams matches. I team mostly with a jiggs, and I can't tell you how well we do when my lasers are on. Think about it, if he's getting smashed I can stun him and remove the knockback so he's back in the fight. If he's approaching on the ground (a bad thing for jiggs against a lot of chars) I can pop lasers over his head and what was a bad approach is now a sleep courtesy of laser-stun. Oh yeah, and did I mention that Falco's lasers wake him up? This is a skill anyone interested in teams NEEDS to learn, I think.

HARDKOREan: I had a long learning process with the SHL so perhaps I can offer you some advice. First, you oughta know that when done correctly you should be able to move across a map with the SHL as fast as you could run, and you should be able to control the speed you move at very well, and further you should be able to pump out lasers really fast! The SHL is a pure timing move, though, about as hard to master as the waveshine, imo, so here's how I practiced it up:

-Go into training mode and select Falco. (duh )
-Select Final D for the stage and try using the SHL at normal speed for about 2-5min, and focus on moving your fingers as quickly as possible and getting every button press in the move equally spaced out in time (i.e., there's an equal amount of time between each of the following steps for a normal forward SHL: dash, SH, b, FF)
-Now that you're frustrated and your fingers are warmed up, slow down the time in the training options to 1/2 or even 1/3 if you're really havin issues and continue trying the simple forward SHL. This way you can start to get a feel for the EXACT spacing between button presses and eventually you kinda start to hear the clicks of the controller in a little rythmn in your head. That's when you're starting to get it.
-Next, speed it back up to normal, or if you were on 1/3, put it to 1/2 and continue tryin it... You still probably won't be perfect, but I noticed a big difference in how well I could do it. Try SHLing across FD twice without making an error. Once you have that down, repeat all the steps above with the reverse dashing SHL (dash away, SH, press the opposite direction of the dash, b, FF). This one is MUCH MUCH harder at first, but just as easy once you have it down.

As far as the shorter movement SHL goes I found that once I was a master of the dashing SHL in both directions I was also a master of the "walking speed" as well without having to practice, so I wouldn't bother practicing those. This (like the waveshine, pillar, shine-spike combo, etc.) is going to require some practice, though. For at least a week you should give yourself about 15min to go through this process in training mode, and you'll see MASSIVE improvement. I hope that is helpful to some people.

 

[mathos]

Practicing timings at a different speed is usually a bad idea.

 

[Metal_Doc]

Wow, <3 this thread. Nice tips shiz, they are really helpful and congrats on winning Momaid.

 

[SmashMac]

Mathos is right...

This is a DaShizWiz post.

 

[JiggsIsMyHero]

Well, ordinarily I would agree with you completely, but I think this is a special exception. If the problem you're having with the SHL is simply that you can't seem to get a feel for the timing of it BECAUSE you aren't used to doing moves that fast (which was the case with me because before Falco I had never played a char that required such precision and speed), then the slower game speed seems like a good move to me. That said, I'm only trying to point out what worked for me, and I'm no expert. I can SHL perfectly and I play a really technically advanced Falco, and that's how I got started. But you guys may well be right.

 

[A-Laon]

Hey, A-Loan, I wanted to let you know, that if you are playing a guy that just bum rushes you the whole time, and plays really really fast, there are two simple things you should try.

1st thing that I found that seems to work is to just wait for them to get to you, then tilt them. they will try to approach with an aerial, to a wd to utilt. or if they have a ground approach do a ftilt.

2nd thing, wait for them again and just as he's about to get to you, bust a shnair in his face. it's really funny, and this will most likely make him second guess his normal approach which, in turn will make him play YOUR game, in a style where he's not completely comfortable.

Heh, thanks for the further help, but I thought I'd narrow down the scenario a bit.

The type of fast-players that truly skrew me up are those who play super-aggressive (though still accurately and intelligently) from a close-medium range... a range in which I may not have time to pull out a suitable attack before they make contact, or perhaps one that I personally just don't (yet) have the reflexes to counter properly.

I guess the better thing for me to ask for now would be any specific good techniques for playing defensively in these fast, close situations, and then get myself back onto the offense before I totally surrender my control of the match.

 

[Lorcl678]

I've learned most of Falco's techniques but JC Shines are the ones that bug me. When I JC Shine, I usually get 1 shine on the ground and 1 very close to the ground. I kind of have a 30% chance of doing 2 JC Shines. Do you have any tips on how to JC Shine most of the time. I use the x button =). (Don't tell me to switch to Y because I'd rather stick to my default jumping button. I've managed to DSHL with Fox using the x button consistently and will continue to use X for almost any move.)

 

[DaShizWiz]

.....hmmm..... I don't know what I can really tell you to do JC'ed shines when playing with X..... Even though I was experimenting to see how much worse it was then Y, I am able to do 6 JC'ed shines with X and with Y I can do 16 JC'ed shines. So..... yeah lol. But what I do is slide my fingers From X to B when doing jc'ed shines.


Edit: Thanks Metal doc, I appreciate it man .

 

[Lorcl678]

Yeah, I practiced JCed Shines for about 30 minutes while waiting for a reply. Managed to do 6 JC shines in a row and I was like WOWOWOW! I guess it pretty much takes finger memory or something like that but I'm getting the hang of it.

 

[festizzio]

I've got a quick question, how useful is the ledge wavedash with Falco? Is it just a waste of time? i.e. are there better options?

Thanks for your reply kidprecision, but I also want to know if there are better things to do than a ledge wavedash making it obsolete; is it situational, or should I try getting back onto the stage another way i.e. LHDL, aerial, phantasm, etc.

 

[DaShizWiz]

I wouldn't say Ledge wavedashing is one of falcos best things.... but it can be useful..... I think you should only do it out of randomness.... like if the person your playing is used to the way you play..... then you should put something different in....

 

[bornfidelity.com]

If they're close to the edge, you can come back with ledgedropped dair; if they're far away, you can come on with lasers.
Ledgewavedashing with Falco is only useful when you need to be fast, like to continue a combo.
Or like Shiz says, out of randomness.

Good topic btw. Another excuse for me to postpone updating the guide

 

[DSB]

Hey I just got back to playing Melee after 2 years and right now I'm just practicing the technical stuff to get used to the GC controller again (I've been playing competitive SSB64 with a keyboard for one year and a half). I'd like to know what are the advanced tactics I should master, in order of importance for a decent Falco. Also, do I have to fast-fall every short-hopped aerial even though Falco is a fastfaller ?

 

[kidprecision]

Look at the falco guides in the falco section.

 

[szholo]

sup shiz.. im from mexico and i really would apreciate if u can rate me tell me what am i doing wrong and whats good plz .. sry for my bad english (im the red falco) thank you..

http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=szholoo

 

[JiggsIsMyHero]

Heya Shiz, remember me? I asked you a while ago about how to play against a Samus...

Well, I just wanted to thank you for the very good advice you gave. I went to a tourney today where there were 2 samus mains playing and I did a pretty **** good job holding both of em at bay! Any thoughts on how to go about edge-guarding a samus, though? I find that with a slow-and-easy approach to the match with plenty of pillars and SHL camping you can wear a samus down and get em over 100% pretty easy, but then once you knock em off you're boned. I mean, I can LH bair pretty well, but below 140 this doesn't even phase em, and with the grapple you can't down smash or dair. Any way to take em out at a lower percentage? Thanks again for all the advice.

 

[SheerMadness]

I don't need help with Falco, just give me your fingers.

 

[Tink]

shiz trying to copy f-ward PPP.

 

[mathos]

Forward tried to copy mathos

 

[Sighrax]

.shiz Is A Robot Do Not Listen To Him

 

[Metal_Doc]

Hey shiz, do you have any tips on dealing with shield grabbers?

 

[Zander805]

Hey shiz, do you have any tips on dealing with shield grabbers?

Learn to Pillar.

 

[DaShizWiz]

No prob JiggsIsMyHero, what I do personally to edgeguard samus is edge hog, when they do the grapple, I will either go down where they are and shine spike them with falco. And if they're at a certain angle that I can't shine spike them, I'll go down there and do a Shine to a Bair really quick.

Iggy, what you should do vs shieldgrabbers is just grab them a whole bunch. When they shield like crazy, just grab them to show them that if they want to shieldgrab then you'll just keep grabbing them, eventually they will stop shieldgrabbing. Or if you want to break they're hsield, you should do Dair shine Dair shine and keep repeating that, but if you have been practicing the JC'ed shines like I told you at school. Then just to Dair shine shine Dair and keep repeating that, like at the third one they're shield will break .

 

[Linguini]

shiz's falco is a meanie.

 

[Metal_Doc]

Thanks Shiz, I appreciate it.

 

[szholo]

shiz what about me =) ?