Who needs a couple mechanic changes?

[ChaikaBestGirl]

Whether for better or worse. As an Ike main I think he needs to be able to cancel Aether after the jump like Dedede can and be able to do something after using Quick Draw in the air instead of just nothing. I also think that charged moves should run out eventually (charge shot, Robin's lightning, DK's punch) Anyone else have anything they want mechanically changed?

 

[Shamurai Formerly]

As a not-Ike player, he shouldn't really go into a helpless state after his side B. He doesn't seem to have much going for him.

But I'd like Bowser to have a little more going for him. As of now, he's very much a what-you-see-is-what-you-get character.

 

[_gold_]

I wish Samus had a consistent jab combo.

 

[Eggggggggggbert]

While I'm not a fan of that mechanic as a whole (from a logistics standpoint), I'm not sure if him having it because Dedede has it is a good point necessarily. Especially considering Dedede is a pretty lacking character in general and Ike being one of the more viable slow/heavy-hitting characters.
I believe rage shouldn't be in the game as well. But this isn't too uncommon of an opinion
ALSO the changes they made to the SDI multiplier in multi-hitting moves is really stupid. It makes it stupidly difficult to SDI out of. I don't like how rapid jabs work as a whole now.
I'm going to cut myself off before I end up ******** about everything.

 

[One Handed Sword]

While I'm not a fan of that mechanic as a whole (from a logistics standpoint), I'm not sure if him having it because Dedede has it is a good point necessarily. Especially considering Dedede is a pretty lacking character in general and Ike being one of the more viable slow/heavy-hitting characters.
I believe rage shouldn't be in the game as well. But this isn't too uncommon of an opinion
ALSO the changes they made to the SDI multiplier in multi-hitting moves is really stupid. It makes it stupidly difficult to SDI out of. I don't like how rapid jabs work as a whole now.
I'm going to cut myself off before I end up ******** about everything.

I really disagree with the fact that king Dedede is lacking here are my reasons.

1. He has excellent recovery. His multiple jumps and extremley high Up B allows him to recover from pretty much any distance depending on the Dedede.

2. He is a heavyweight character that hits like a truck. I find his moves to be extremley damaging if they manage to land well being able to kill with a charged Fsmash at 50% and his Dair being a great spike tool and due to his recovery theres not that much risk in trying to spike or edgeguard anything.

3. He has a projectile that can knock back people and kill at 150%. In my opinion I really think Dedede never really needed any projectile a heavyweight with good recovery would be a good enough character on their own. However he has a projectile he can decided the direction of where it goes making him an already better edge guarder than he already is and if the Gordo does hit you off the stage you go and risk getting edge guared by Dedede.

 

[Eggggggggggbert]

I really disagree with the fact that king Dedede is lacking here are my reasons.

1. He has excellent recovery. His multiple jumps and extremley high Up B allows him to recover from pretty much any distance depending on the Dedede.

2. He is a heavyweight character that hits like a truck. I find his moves to be extremley damaging if they manage to land well being able to kill with a charged Fsmash at 50% and his Dair being a great spike tool and due to his recovery theres not that much risk in trying to spike or edgeguard anything.

3. He has a projectile that can knock back people and kill at 150%. In my opinion I really think Dedede never really needed any projectile a heavyweight with good recovery would be a good enough character on their own. However he has a projectile he can decided the direction of where it goes making him an already better edge guarder than he already is and if the Gordo does hit you off the stage you go and risk getting edge guared by Dedede.

He does have his strengths, there is no way I'm not agreeing with that. His recovery and his weight means he lives forever and he has strong disjointed hit boxes.

His size and weight also make him huge Combo food. While his attacks are strong, they have huge start up lag and overall the character just lacks good frame data. He's very slow and has no movement options. Gordos are pretty good, but a majority of the cast in the game have very good means to deal with them and kick them back in his face. He also lacks approach options. He has an aerial approach but his poor air mobility forces you to depend on spacing. Gordos are also used for approaches but again, a decent chunk of the cast can jsut pop those back in his face.
I also disagree with the dair comment, it's very seldom used and not exactly a reliable meteor. It's a choice, but more often than not a Dedede will go for another option.

While Dedede is strong at recovering and decent at edgeguarding, his regular neutral is just awful. You have to rely on mistakes and heavy reads more often than not.

 

[Jotari]

Any recovery type move used on the ground shouldn't induce a helpless state. Especially Side Specials. One of the most annoying things in the game is to suicide by using Din's Fire near a ledge and Zelda just casually decides to fall to her death. In fact just remove the helplessness from Din's Fire overall. If they're afraid of having it spammed in the air (which I don't think is likely given how much precise and time consuming it needs to be) then just make it so you can only use it once before landing like half a dozen other moves.

 

[ChaikaBestGirl]

Any recovery type move used on the ground shouldn't induce a helpless state. Especially Side Specials. One of the most annoying things in the game is to suicide by using Din's Fire near a ledge and Zelda just casually decides to fall to her death. In fact just remove the helplessness from Din's Fire overall. If they're afraid of having it spammed in the air (which I don't think is likely given how much precise and time consuming it needs to be) then just make it so you can only use it once before landing like half a dozen other moves.

Give it the Sonic Spring or ZSS jump treatment

 

[Deleted member 269706]

I'm generally okay with most everything in the game...but Yoshi's Down Air needs to chill a little bit...I mean getting more than 30% out of one aerial seems a little ridiculous.

 

[Kaladin]

Mario (and luigi/doc's) footstools should do 10% damage and have a larger (35 frames?) jablock window. Head-jumping is mario's thing, not Lucas'. Footstools should be a mario staple.

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

Any recovery type move used on the ground shouldn't induce a helpless state. Especially Side Specials. One of the most annoying things in the game is to suicide by using Din's Fire near a ledge and Zelda just casually decides to fall to her death. In fact just remove the helplessness from Din's Fire overall. If they're afraid of having it spammed in the air (which I don't think is likely given how much precise and time consuming it needs to be) then just make it so you can only use it once before landing like half a dozen other moves.

Agreed about recovery moves not causing helpless if used from the ground. It might open up fun combos or mix-ups too. Imagine if Dedede could cancel a Super Dedede Jump from the ground and not go into helpless. Or if Lucario could Extreme Speed from the ground to the air without going into helpless. Heck, Falco's Fire Bird might actually be useful! Also Mewtwo and Palutena would have useful teleports. Heck, custom Palutena could run Teleport instead of Jump Glide on her hyper offence kit.

As for Din's Fire, the other fix would be to make it only slow your fall once per airtime.

Speaking of Zelda in general, Phantom Slash and its variants need to be charge-storeable.

Ike should not go into helpless if Quick Draw or a variant of it hits, but only if it hits. Similarly, landing an aerial Raptor Boost shouldn't cause helpless, nor should landing an aerial Onslaught, Burning Dropkick, Airborne Assault, or Slash Launcher.

Sonic should be able to Homing Attack more than once before landing, but only if the Homing Attack hits. Also Homing Attack just plain needs to aim better, and not lose as much speed as it reaches a target. I don't think Sonic needs buffs overall, but what I do think he needs is changes that will fix his overall game plan to be hyper offence instead of keep-away.

Bowser's Flying Slam needs a fix. Either Bowser should always have full control over a Flying Slam but should always die first when trying to Bowsercide, or the control can keep its current mechanics and in exchange, Bowser's foe should always die first when a Bowsercide occurs. Because as-is, a foe can take a stock off of Bowser by forcing him to go offstage with a Flying Slam when he doesn't want to, making the move literally unusable.

Toon Link's grounded Spin Attack needs more knockback on the multi-hits. I shouldn't be able to Super Armour my way out of the middle of a Spin Attack using Roy's Blazer.

@ Eggggggggggbert : Actually, I rather like the current SDI multiplier mechanics with regards to multi-hit moves. People shouldn't be able to SDI out of things like Zelda's FSmash or USmash, or Pit's NAir or UAir, or Mario's DAir. I do agree that rapid jabs are kind of stupid in some ways though. Especially how quickly CPUs escape them versus how quickly an actual opponent can. I've never seen a human player pop out of Mii Brawler's rapid jab with anything less than 16% tacked on, but even low-level CPUs regularly escape with only 9-12%. Against CPUs, you can't hold a rapid jab for anything more than a single loop before they break out, and sometimes not even that.

 

[Jotari]

Ike should not go into helpless if Quick Draw or a variant of it hits, but only if it hits. Similarly, landing an aerial Raptor Boost shouldn't cause helpless, nor should landing an aerial Onslaught, Burning Dropkick, Airborne Assault, or Slash Launcher..

Pretty sure that's the way Quick Draw works already. It didn't in Brawl but they changed it so people can't jump into your face and gimp you. I'd actually be cool with it not having any helpless state though. If Fox and Falco don't get helpless in their side specials I don't see any reason the moves you mentioned shouldn't have the same treatment.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

Pac-Man needs some serious buffs with frame data. He has a great moveset, but if his strong moves were even 3 or 4 frames faster, he would be a LOT better. They're too slow to compensate for their mediocre knockback.

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

Pretty sure that's the way Quick Draw works already. It didn't in Brawl but they changed it so people can't jump into your face and gimp you. I'd actually be cool with it not having any helpless state though. If Fox and Falco don't get helpless in their side specials I don't see any reason the moves you mentioned shouldn't have the same treatment.

Really? If it doesn't still have helpless, then at the very least it seems to have a lot of endlag. Then again, I almost never play Ike with customs off and I always use Unyielding Blade instead of standard Quick Draw, so I'm not entirely familiar with how base Quick Draw works in Smash 4.

Agreed that all those other moves could get the same treatment too, though.

Oh, also, Mii Swordfighter should be able to cancel the endlag of a successful Slash Launcher with a jump. And if that happened, it would also need a knockback reduction with a significant decrease in knockback growth. Basically instead of trying to pretend it's a kill move but not really, it should set up aerial follow-ups.

Also, Mii Brawler and Mii Swordfighter should have lateral aerial control while bouncing off of an opponent with Burning Dropkick and Airborne Assault respectively.

 

[ChaikaBestGirl]

Really? If it doesn't still have helpless, then at the very least it seems to have a lot of endlag. Then again, I almost never play Ike with customs off and I always use Unyielding Blade instead of standard Quick Draw, so I'm not entirely familiar with how base Quick Draw works in Smash 4.

Agreed that all those other moves could get the same treatment too, though.

Oh, also, Mii Swordfighter should be able to cancel the endlag of a successful Slash Launcher with a jump. And if that happened, it would also need a knockback reduction with a significant decrease in knockback growth. Basically instead of trying to pretend it's a kill move but not really, it should set up aerial follow-ups.

Also, Mii Brawler and Mii Swordfighter should have lateral aerial control while bouncing off of an opponent with Burning Dropkick and Airborne Assault respectively.

Current quick draw is pretty much rollout for jigglypuff in the air, once it hits you can't do anything, and if it doesn't hit and you pass over your opponent you can't do anything

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

Current quick draw is pretty much rollout for jigglypuff in the air, once it hits you can't do anything, and if it doesn't hit and you pass over your opponent you can't do anything

In that case, my previous point still stands: Ike shouldn't be put in helpless when landing Quick Draw in the air. Whether he should go helpless if he doesn't do the ending slash is a different question, but he definitely shouldn't go into helpless if he performs the ending slash in the air. Same with other characters with similar side specials.


And yeah, I really think most recoveries shouldn't go helpless if used from the ground. There are a few that definitely should (Helicopter Kick doesn't need a buff), but most shouldn't have helpless fall if used from the ground. Warp, Teleport, Power of Flight, Skyward Slash Dash, Arm Rocket, Fire Bird, Extreme Speed, Drill Rush, and Dimensional Cape would all really benefit from this, I think. Heck, Warp, Teleport, and Power of Flight straight-up need this. Basically I dislike moves that are literally only useful for recovery, so any move that lacks utility outside of recovering/running away should have this change applied so they can actually contribute to the user's offensive game.

In fact, were I the developer I'd be inclined to remove helpless fall from Warp, Teleport, Power of Flight, Arm Rocket, Dolphin Jump (and other "no-hitbox" Up Special customs), and Dimensional Cape (only when the finishing slash isn't used) altogether and instead apply a "can only be used once per airtime" restriction. Or possibly even a "no further special moves can be used until you land" restriction, in the case of characters that don't need the recovery buff (Meta Knight, for example). And they still wouldn't have even those restrictions when used from the ground. So if Meta Knight used Dimensional Cape from the ground to the air, he wouldn't go into helpless fall from performing the finishing slash, and he would still be able to use special moves whether he performed the finishing slash or not.

Speaking of Power of Flight, it needs less startup and endlag, along with the ability to go in any direction rather than just upward ones. In combination with the above buffs, this would make Pit and Dark Pit a major threat in the air, since they'd be able to chase you anywhere in the sky. Heck, if Pit/Dark Pit could interrupt Up Special with an air attack like in Brawl, that would make him even more formidable since his Power of Flight spacing wouldn't have to be super precise and he could pull off cool mix-ups.

 

[ffdgh]

I would greatly appreciate if peach could grab the ledge backwards with her up B without having to press down.

 

[Jotari]

Oh yeah, Robin's Elwind shouldn't put him in a helpless state either. It has limited uses so it should be a good move but the way it is now it leaves you way to vulnerable to use unless your grabbing the ledge, or as an attack you use it on the ground and knock the opponent into the air (which really isn't all that effective). If you could attack afterwards it would give Robin excellent air time to make use of those air smashes.

 

[_gold_]

Oh yeah, Robin's Elwind shouldn't put him in a helpless state either. It has limited uses so it should be a good move but the way it is now it leaves you way to vulnerable to use unless your grabbing the ledge, or as an attack you use it on the ground and knock the opponent into the air (which really isn't all that effective). If you could attack afterwards it would give Robin excellent air time to make use of those air smashes.

I agree it leaves him/her open for far too long. It would be nice if she could use a move to defend herself while free falling. Sort of how Bowser Jr's UpB works.

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

Oh yeah, Robin's Elwind shouldn't put him in a helpless state either. It has limited uses so it should be a good move but the way it is now it leaves you way to vulnerable to use unless your grabbing the ledge, or as an attack you use it on the ground and knock the opponent into the air (which really isn't all that effective). If you could attack afterwards it would give Robin excellent air time to make use of those air smashes.

If it were a Meteor Smash, that might also make it effective enough to justify it having limited uses. But yeah, if Elwind didn't have helpless fall Iespecially grounded Elwind) it would make for an actually effective attack.

 

[Jotari]

Oh yeah another one. Samus' Charge Shot should be chargeable in the air. Metwo, Robin, Lucario, Bowser Jr, pretty much everyone else with a chargeable attack can charge it in the air except Samus. It's been four games now, how have they not fixed this?

 

[Xermo]

Current quick draw is pretty much rollout for jigglypuff in the air, once it hits you can't do anything, and if it doesn't hit and you pass over your opponent you can't do anything

That's false. After the initial hit animation, Ike's free to do anything else including recover.

 

[ChaikaBestGirl]

That's false. After the initial hit animation, Ike's free to do anything else including recover.

He has DI but he can't do anything other than that

 

[Xermo]

He has DI but he can't do anything other than that

what are you talking about. DI doesn't even apply to the user throwing out the move.
In this game if Ike hits with quick draw or even swings the sword as if was going going to hit, he's free to do any action after that animation.

 

[ChaikaBestGirl]

what are you talking about. DI doesn't even apply to the user throwing out the move.
In this game if Ike hits with quick draw or even swings the sword as if was going going to hit, he's free to do any action after that animation.

I'm talking about in the air

 

[Xermo]

I'm talking about in the air

That's what I'm referring to as well.
Aerial Quick Draw worked they way you described it in brawl, not smash 4.

Also DI still has nothing to do with hitting the move while airborne.

 

[XenoBlur]

I would love if Zelda doesn't free fall when you side-b (Din's Fire) and when she up-b, she could move more in free fall

 

[Tycon]

Looking at ganon's current problems and play style, a change to suit him more towards what his charater is strong at as well as his theme as a warlock would help him in both viability and the fun department.

I'd love to see Ganaondorf not only become more viable, but separate from his previous clone... captain falcon. As a bait and punish zone controlling character but incredibly slow ganon would work great as an odd ball slow zoner, sort of like the super heavy, slow version of samus in a sort. Giving ganon even a mediocre projectile would really allow ganon to excel in his defensive play style and make up for his abysmal run/chasing speed, with already poor recovery and poor frame data, he could use anything he can get, especially a spacing tool. Seeing as Ganon is not only a warlock, a magical character and shown to have projectiles in the Zelda games (in ocarina of time he even floats in place and shoots light orbs are you). Also to help his recovery and keep with the character theme, a peach like double jump float would help ganon more than you could ever imagine for recovery.

I'd suggest removing his current side smash, replace his current side smash with his warlock punch which you would now charge for the full current effect, this would thus give ganon space for a new neutral B. His side smash would gain armor properties just as his warlock punch does on start up. This also gives him a similar attack to falcon with the punch attack but instead this is now his smash and not a shared neutral B with falcon. Additional differences this would make it generally faster to apply on ground as you don't need to fully charge the warlock punch for a quicker less power full smash version and not allow ganon to warlock punch while in the air since it is a smash attack. The satisfaction of landing a warlock punch is awesome, making it non charge smash come out a little quicker for less power would just be satisfying to land on people.

With the neutral B slot free as his new side smash, his new Neutral B would be a chargeable light orb projectile. Distinctly different form other charge projectiles acting as a cross between megaman's metal blade in launch properties and bowser jr.'s cannon ball in speed and general projectile properties. The light orb from ocarina of time would be the change and a charge projectile, you can either charge the full shot and release or like other charge attacks, quickly double tab B to release a still slow uncharged version. During the start up launch frames of the orb you can in put a basic direction like megaman's metal blade and launch the slow moving orb in the chosen direction (default non-directional input is forward facing launch). This projectile travels roughly the same speed as the cannon ball, has high priority over most other projectiles, has a piercing property to it like the cannon ball, is considered an energy projectile allowing ness to absorb it, not dissipate until a set long distance and of course be reflected. The projectile has hefty damage on hit but relatively low knock back, equivalent to taking lightning jab making this a damage option for ganon, but not a kill move. The start up and end lag of the move would be significant but faster than the current version of cannon ball, so slow but safe at distance. This would also be the only instance of a charge hold projectile that can be angle changed and the only non killing charge hold projectile as damage is the main focus. Double tapping B, then immediately pressing a direction upon the start up of the light ball just like metal blade (but requires double tap b) is a unique mechanic and would require getting used to.

The float on the 2nd jump would be nice to give him a heavy peach feel and lore wise matches the characters abilities, while also only partially increasing his horizontal recovery from gimping once (you only get 1 jump before recovering to the edge). He'l still have bad recovery as he has little vertical recovery and hitting him out of float essentially dooms him, but at least his much needed buffed abysmal recovery would be improved without making him too good at recovery.

The rest of his kit is solid and fits his defensive punish theme, but now he has some control over the stage being able to float briefly in the air (also allowing him to have an option to deal with heavy projectiles) and have a mediocre but still available projectile to force an approach. Being both gigantic, poor crouch, slow in terms of dash speed and frame data really gives him a good reason to have odd tools to deal with heavy projectiles and people that run from him without just shield or dash attack. Also how awesome would it be seeing defensive ganon zoning, while most zoners are very fast and mobile, ganon doesn't care he holds his ground and tanks enemy approaches.

TLDR VERSION: VVVV

-Remove current side smash, Replace it with his current Neutral B warlock punch, full charge of side smash = about current warlock punch, uncharged is a less powerful version. Retains similar properties (armor during move).

-New Neutral B: Give him a slow moving projectile (Bowser Jr. Cannonball like) that he charges and aims like megaman's metal blade in multi directions. Has high damage and a decent hit stun but low knock back so it's not a KO move. Slow move in terms of start up and recovery.

-Make double Jump hold to float similar to peach but for less time. He's a warlock, he can float in ocarina of time why not here when it matters. Helps with projectile dodging and recovery while still keeping him with bad recovery (even if slightly improved).

-Keep the rest of his kit the way it is, he can even (and should) keep his bad frame data, size and run speed to balance his new abilities.

 

[Beach]

I just want a different Nair and Ftilt for Lucario, but on mechanics Rage + Aura is silly at times wouldn't mind PM's Aura "charges" that you could use to augment his moves.

 

[TOGOpuff]

Sice we're all wining ... i wanted jiggs d-throw to be comboable at low % so she could have a more threatening game.

 

[Jotari]

Looking at ganon's current problems and play style, a change to suit him more towards what his charater is strong at as well as his theme as a warlock would help him in both viability and the fun department.

I'd love to see Ganaondorf not only become more viable, but separate from his previous clone... captain falcon. As a bait and punish zone controlling character but incredibly slow ganon would work great as an odd ball slow zoner, sort of like the super heavy, slow version of samus in a sort. Giving ganon even a mediocre projectile would really allow ganon to excel in his defensive play style and make up for his abysmal run/chasing speed, with already poor recovery and poor frame data, he could use anything he can get, especially a spacing tool. Seeing as Ganon is not only a warlock, a magical character and shown to have projectiles in the Zelda games (in ocarina of time he even floats in place and shoots light orbs are you). Also to help his recovery and keep with the character theme, a peach like double jump float would help ganon more than you could ever imagine for recovery.

I'd suggest removing his current side smash, replace his current side smash with his warlock punch which you would now charge for the full current effect, this would thus give ganon space for a new neutral B. His side smash would gain armor properties just as his warlock punch does on start up. This also gives him a similar attack to falcon with the punch attack but instead this is now his smash and not a shared neutral B with falcon. Additional differences this would make it generally faster to apply on ground as you don't need to fully charge the warlock punch for a quicker less power full smash version and not allow ganon to warlock punch while in the air since it is a smash attack. The satisfaction of landing a warlock punch is awesome, making it non charge smash come out a little quicker for less power would just be satisfying to land on people.

With the neutral B slot free as his new side smash, his new Neutral B would be a chargeable light orb projectile. Distinctly different form other charge projectiles acting as a cross between megaman's metal blade in launch properties and bowser jr.'s cannon ball in speed and general projectile properties. The light orb from ocarina of time would be the change and a charge projectile, you can either charge the full shot and release or like other charge attacks, quickly double tab B to release a still slow uncharged version. During the start up launch frames of the orb you can in put a basic direction like megaman's metal blade and launch the slow moving orb in the chosen direction (default non-directional input is forward facing launch). This projectile travels roughly the same speed as the cannon ball, has high priority over most other projectiles, has a piercing property to it like the cannon ball, is considered an energy projectile allowing ness to absorb it, not dissipate until a set long distance and of course be reflected. The projectile has hefty damage on hit but relatively low knock back, equivalent to taking lightning jab making this a damage option for ganon, but not a kill move. The start up and end lag of the move would be significant but faster than the current version of cannon ball, so slow but safe at distance. This would also be the only instance of a charge hold projectile that can be angle changed and the only non killing charge hold projectile as damage is the main focus. Double tapping B, then immediately pressing a direction upon the start up of the light ball just like metal blade (but requires double tap b) is a unique mechanic and would require getting used to.

The float on the 2nd jump would be nice to give him a heavy peach feel and lore wise matches the characters abilities, while also only partially increasing his horizontal recovery from gimping once (you only get 1 jump before recovering to the edge). He'l still have bad recovery as he has little vertical recovery and hitting him out of float essentially dooms him, but at least his much needed buffed abysmal recovery would be improved without making him too good at recovery.

The rest of his kit is solid and fits his defensive punish theme, but now he has some control over the stage being able to float briefly in the air (also allowing him to have an option to deal with heavy projectiles) and have a mediocre but still available projectile to force an approach. Being both gigantic, poor crouch, slow in terms of dash speed and frame data really gives him a good reason to have odd tools to deal with heavy projectiles and people that run from him without just shield or dash attack. Also how awesome would it be seeing defensive ganon zoning, while most zoners are very fast and mobile, ganon doesn't care he holds his ground and tanks enemy approaches.

TLDR VERSION: VVVV

-Remove current side smash, Replace it with his current Neutral B warlock punch, full charge of side smash = about current warlock punch, uncharged is a less powerful version. Retains similar properties (armor during move).

-New Neutral B: Give him a slow moving projectile (Bowser Jr. Cannonball like) that he charges and aims like megaman's metal blade in multi directions. Has high damage and a decent hit stun but low knock back so it's not a KO move. Slow move in terms of start up and recovery.

-Make double Jump hold to float similar to peach but for less time. He's a warlock, he can float in ocarina of time why not here when it matters. Helps with projectile dodging and recovery while still keeping him with bad recovery (even if slightly improved).

-Keep the rest of his kit the way it is, he can even (and should) keep his bad frame data, size and run speed to balance his new abilities.

That's not really a simple mechanic change. The impressoin I'm getting is that this thread is for talking about small changes that could even be implemented into a patch update. Not massive revamping of movesets to make a character completely different. There is a dedicated How Should Ganon be on the Ganondorf character forum. If we're talking about changing full movesets then there's a lot more I could be posting here.

On the subject of Ganon though, I'd love if you could cancel his Up Tilt. It's finally a viable move now but I still sometimes finding myself using it by mistake when I want to go Up Smash or just plain mistiming it. If you could cancel, even if the window is small like before he gets his leg right up, then it would be fantastic.

 

[MrMFC]

I want Kirby's Final Cutter to be useful (other than being a bad but necessary recovery move, since it's so punishable), I really like what they did to it in Project M but I doubt that will happen sadly.

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

I'm talking about in the air

Ike actually has no aerial control (what you're mistakenly calling "DI") whatsoever during the final slash of an aerial Quick Draw. That said, performing it does not actually put Ike into helpless fall in Smash 4. It's simply that the attack has an awful lot of endlag. Ike can eventually act out of it while in the air, but you'll fall a very long distance before being able to do so. The only way I was able to test that it can indeed be done was to position the foe on the left edge of the highest platform of Hyrule Castle 64 in Training Mode, stand on that same platform, jump over their head and hit them with an aerial Quick Draw from the left. While falling after the Quick Draw slash, I mashed the jump button. If you do this, Ike will perform a midair jump just before touching the platform below. Regardless of how laggy that is, in practice in an actual match it is just about early enough to prevent a foe from gimping you just by jumping into your attack if you recover high with Quick Draw.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Mario (and luigi/doc's) footstools should do 10% damage and have a larger (35 frames?) jablock window. Head-jumping is mario's thing, not Lucas'. Footstools should be a mario staple.

Yes. I like you.
Aside from the removal of Rage, which would be my top change, I would change Lucario's Aura mechanics. He has the potential to be a great character, but he's so flawed that it holds him back from being as great as he could be. His moves are WAY too slow (borderline Ganondorf) for how weak they are at low to mid Aura. Either buff him at low/mid Aura and tone him down at high, or just make his moves faster, because as is, most of his moves are unusable at low Aura for how weak and slow they are.

 

[JAZZ_]

Nuff said

 

[Foxus]

Yoshi probably needs a complete revision of his movesets in order to fix the lagginess of his mechanics.

Like the ability to cancel out of a ground pound like Kirby can with the rock. Oh, and making sure Yoshi doesn't lag after performing a ground pound would be great as well.

Take the dinosaur back to the gym, he could use some work.

 

[LancerStaff]

Pit's Uspecial could stand to be a little less janky with it's ledge grabs, and some landing hitboxes on his aerials would be nice since you'll do <1% if you crash land... I'd of probably said that he should be able to have two arrows out at once before last update, but that might be kinda OP with the endlag reduction.

 

[Raijinken]

I think if they'd remove Robin's tome limits (maybe not the sword limit, or maybe tweak it to function like an actual Fire Emblem weapon and only lose durability on hit) to help his neutral game be less garbage, that'd be pretty great.

Oh, and make extra shield damage (Shield Breaker, Warlock Blade, etc) still apply on perfect shield.

 

[ChikoLad]

A visual aid for where the actual AOE (area of effect) of Rosalina's grabs are would be swell.

As much as I play her, I still feel I don't understand her grab range. It's the one thing I have trouble with. There have been times where her hand goes right through the opponent when I grab them, and it still whiffs. She's supposed to have a force choke type grab going on, but like, I can't tell where the AOE for that is because there is no visual effect. So just give her some sparkly stardust or whatever so I can see where the grab actually connects. Because I've had way too many times where I was right on top of the opponent and it still whiffs. It makes me wonder if the grab is disjointed.

Before people hound me because "WTF ROSALINA SHOULD BE NERFED!!!!" (and I highly disagree with that by the way), please note I am not asking for a buff to her grab range, I am asking them to fix a glaring design issue with her grab. Most other characters physically grab with their hands or a tether. The ones who don't, like Zelda, have a sparkly effect or whatever to show where the AOE is. But Rosalina doesn't physically grab with her hand, and the hand doesn't exactly seem to be the hitbox. And she has no visual guide for her AOE. I don't see why she doesn't.

IIRC, I think Palutena might have a similar issue, though I'm not as sure as I don't play her. If she does (or if any other characters do), then I want it fixed for them too. I mention Rosalina specifically as I main her and it's the one thing that confuses me to this day, and I feel like it shouldn't.

EDIT: Images that give an idea of what I mean:

First image is dash grab on the moment it connects.
Second image is a whiffed dash grab.
Third image is the actual grab animation.

 

[LancerStaff]

Oh, and make extra shield damage (Shield Breaker, Warlock Blade, etc) still apply on perfect shield.

It does, just that perfect shielding's natural damage reduction makes them less powerful.