Who is the Best Marth right now?(Mew2King excluded)

[Blistering Speed]

Armada plays Peach.

 

[Archangel]

Peach is better than Marth.

 

[Sol.]

Idk. I think marth still can improve. It's just... nobody's reached that skill level yet. From what I've seen, every marth is kind of stuck at the impenetrable wall of skill mixed in with bad habits, and by bad I mean terrible, which means that it's time to go around the wall instead and press on. (Yeah, I'm just a nobody observant noob who shouldn't be talking, but dang it, I'm as frustrated as any other marth main about marth's total drop in tournament results.)

Vs fox has not changed much really; vs falco needs much imrovement (consistent powershields, spacing, edgeguards, tech chasing, + chaingrabs, etc.); vs puff is improving (pp has learned some stuff in the mu, so you just have to start there and work your way up); vs peach needs a lot of improvement (stop f/d-throwing and get her in the air, tipper a lot, bait her a lot when edgeguarding, powershield some turnips + jump over them more, edgetech > bair/edgetech recovery mixup her fair when being edgeguarded, learn when your hitstun ends on her so you can retreat and avoid getting punished, stop doing strings of fair combos so as to pull off a ken combo + instead just keep hitting her in the air, doublestick tech her moves like falling falling fair + push + dtilt if possible, instead of keeping her off stage with just uair try using the top of marth's fair as a mixup - I think that if it's timed + spaced right it will stop her from baring you out of your uair)

Again, since I'm a noob I'm not too knowledgeable, but I've noticed that some characters have improved (among other things) by crouching a lot: spacies, peach, ganon, pikachu, IC's, m2, yoshi, falcon, etc. From what I've seen in a number of marth matches, I don't see much ccing. Could marth improve in this way as a start?

That's pretty much all I've got. I think Marth will come back again. Right now peach, puff, + the spacies are dominating like marth was a few years back, but people will learn the mu's (especially the peach one)sooner or later.

 

[-ShadowPhoenix-]

Peach is better than Marth.

LOL

 

[crush]

lol marth mains.

ive thought since 2003 that marth was like 11th best with samus. good mu's against spacies but sucks vs everyone else.

hipster kitty

 

[Archangel]

LOL

LOL @ Results the past 2 or 3 years?

 

[L__]

Pewpewu highest placing Marth at apex 2012 gg best Marth 17 y/o

 

[Blistering Speed]

LOL @ Results the past 2 or 3 years?

Armada's results.

 

[OverLord]

Results are for wussies.

 

[Beat!]

I'll post it here as well:

Niko got scewed over by the pool system

M2K ragequit

Tai almost beat TOPE

Ice lost to Mango (who is Mango) and HBK (another Marth)

There was a decent amount of Marths in bracket, and most of them did pretty good.

And like, Ice got 2nd at Beast 2. Taj got 3rd at Genesis 2.

Come on, Spam, drop it. You don't have to play Marth if you've lost faith in him, but get that "Marth is C tier" bull**** outta here.

 

[Diakonos]

I'm disappointed with Marth, too, but I think that the problem is with me, not with Marth.

The metagame of other characters (eg. Falco) has evolved such that it capitalizes on Marth's weaknesses (eg. comboability, recovery) and diminishes his strengths (eg. Marth combos' are often cut short by crouchcancelling, etc.). We need to play in such a way as to counteract these advancement in metagame from other characters. We just haven't done it well, I think.

Nevertheless, it's demoralizing when getting hit by a shine by Sion and knowing that you're going to take a good 60% -> get hit offstage. I guess we just have to take it, and try to make our own punishments and opportunities count even harder.

 

[xianglongfa]

If Ice could combo spacies(especially falco) like (M2K on a good day), and got a more spacies heavy bracket like javi did, I doubt we would be having this conversation about "marth sucks" right now.

 

[Archangel]

Armada's results.

Armada is just 1 peach who's out-placed Marth. You are also leaving out MacD or Vanz's Peach who also typically outplace every Marth. The both combined with Armada outplaced every Marth at this event so......

 

[Merkuri]

Ice and Taj are the future hope for Marth imo. Taj needs to stop playing Mewtwo altogether so we can see more of his Marth. And Ice had an unfortunate bracket in that he had Mango in his first round, but also Ice needs to learn the Marth matchup(he has lost to Ek, Hack, Niko and HBK at his last two majors). Ice is really good, but I don't think he is quite ready to be that amazing Marth yet.

And yeah, maybe Marth should be put below Peach in the tier list. In the current metagame Marth is about as viable as Falcon, and that's still pretty good.

 

[Archangel]

Aside from M2K Falcon,s typically outplacing Marth now too lol. Not to badly so that you can say he is better than him yet though. but yeah I think peach should be above Marth.

 

[Beat!]

@Merkuri
Again, Ek and Ice played Sheik dittos at Beast 2.

 

[Archangel]

The fact that they played sheik dittos and all the best Marths eventually switch to sheik or Fox is probably a sign I'd say.

 

[Beat!]

Yes, Spam, we know. You've been very clear with that.

 

[Fregadero]

The fact that they played sheik dittos and all the best Marths eventually switch to sheik or Fox is probably a sign I'd say.

So switch or do something about it lol

 

[Archangel]

I may switch but I'd feel like a Coward. I'd rather quit the game as a whole then swap to someone else....idk I will probably just play Marth to the best of my own ability. When I get to that point I'll see how I stack up against (presumably better than now players/characters). After that....we'll see.

 

[Beat!]

Well, that's great! Now you'll always have an excuse for losing. Marth is only a C-tier character with no room for improvement left after all.

 

[Archangel]

He has honestly placed about as good as a C-tier. Giving him honorary A tier status is rude at this point to what the other characters are doing in tournament. Still, Based on 2011 I'd say Marth is just below falcon and above IC's. Either he's the bottom of A or the top of B however you decide to put it. Which is honestly where I think he should be. The fact that he was once tied with Fox for #1 always shocked me.

 

[Fregadero]

Tournament placing and tier list are irrelevant and marth johns are bs. If you like your character, stick with it and adapt. If you don't or aren't good enough then switch.

I don't care about what you have to say about his match ups just look at what shroomed did this tourney.

 

[Archangel]

Shroomed beat Tec0-IB-KDJ(ending was stupid...KDJ won then SD'd)-unknown

2-0'd by Armada and 2-0'd by Hbox.

pretty good run but nothing a Marth can't do. and besides I don't think Doc is better than Marth.

 

[Fregadero]

Shroomed beat Tec0-IB-KDJ(ending was stupid...KDJ won then SD'd)-unknown

2-0'd by Armada and 2-0'd by Hbox.

pretty good run but nothing a Marth can't do. and besides I don't think Doc is better than Marth.

ATSO (Apex training shirts off) was a tournament that happened on saturday at the hyatt. Grand finals was shroomed v hbox and shroomed took the first set. And iirc shroomed took a match off armada in winners. He was messing **** up.

Either way you get my point in the second part of your post. Marth is a perfectly viable character. If you like the character stick with it and get better with them, work around it.

Or be gay and don't play the sexiest character in the game. Or I guess that would be straight.

 

[SwiftBass]

I played marth vs macD in bracket do i count?

j/k

 

[Max?]

Niko and HBK beat Ice, let it be known.

 

[ShroudedOne]

I could hear a good argument, honestly, for Marth being a bit lower on the list, in the current metagame. As far as his MU spread goes, though, it would make no sense.

 

[DuckPimp]

if you dont know me, i play marth falcon about equal amounts. im pretty inconsistent with which character i play better than the other, but ive always been a falcon main and im pretty sure im never gonna give him up (rickroll myself).


sometimes i think about switching characters instead of marth because of my inconsistency. immediately following an instance of that, i have a conversation with kaffei4lunch

me: ugh my marth... whine whine

k4l: you play sheik in doubles sometimes and its pretty good, you should just play sheik if youre getting frustrated with marth

me: sheik is hella good... but f*** that marth is more fun for me.

k4l: then play marth


godammit hes so f***ing right.

play what you like. falcon and marth forever.

 

[Teczer0]

Niko and HBK beat Ice, let it be known.

Ice went sheik too =3.

Not really sure why....

 

[Archangel]

he seems to be bad at the Marth MU. Reminds me of myself if I was good.

 

[Diakonos]

Yeah. Could be that Ice just isn't so hot at Marth matchup? Either way, I happen to be convinced he is disgustingly good. Him/M2K probably the hope of Marth?

 

[Heart Break Kid]

pewpewu, tai, niko and I.b(if he keeps playing) got this taken care of

 

[KirbyKaze]

PewPewU is as legit as it comes.

 

[Tee ay eye]

Tai almost beat TOPE

i also almost beat eggm

Spoiler

(last stock, >150%, both of us choking away so many easy kill opportunities)

and i beat col bol

Ice went sheik too =3.

Not really sure why....

Niko and HBK beat Ice, let it be known.

Yeah. Could be that Ice just isn't so hot at Marth matchup? Either way, I happen to be convinced he is disgustingly good.

my thoughts on ICE

to be honest, before apex, i wasn't much of a believer in ice.

after he lost to niko and HBK, i was even less of a believer.

however, after playing a bunch of games with him and unknown, i think he is the best marth below mew2king and (imo/maybe) taj.

his two biggest losses were against niko and HBK, where he went sheik. in a humorous tone, i told someone (that wasn't ice) "i bet he just went sheik and expected the matchup to be free because of how dumb NTSC sheik is." during his friendlies with me and unknown, i asked him why he didn't do better during the actual tourney (because he hardly ever ceased to impress me during those matches) and why he didn't go marth against niko and HBK, and guess what he told me (in his adorable european accent)? "oh, i tell myself that it's NTSC sheik, so all i need is one grab, right? that did not work, and i get ****ed up" also, his controller broke the week before apex, but that's not as legit of an excuse IMO

ice's marth is sooo pretty. he has so many neat tricks i had never seen before; he's really fast and technical, and he was really smart and very good at making calls in the neutral game.

i don't say this about just anyone, and i don't really enjoy doing so, but i had come to the realization that ice is definitely a better marth than me (as of apex 2012), and playing/watching him gave me a strong inspiration to step my game up. i surpass him one day, but today is not that day.

so yeah, you can call "no johns," on his performance if you want, and i'll respect that and stop arguing the point further, but i really think that ice is going to put in a LOTTTTT of work the next time he comes to the states. he told me that he's gonna try to go to G3 whenever that finally rolls around. i really really hope he does.

<3333333333 ice

 

[Niko45]

I guess the key to being the best marth main is to just play sheik for all your matchups and then just marth vs spacies and have nobody notice this.

Ice had mentioned earlier in the week that he hated marth dittos and that he felt like sheik was his best character in general so it wasn't like he was just CPing me and HBK when he did that, that was legit.

I'm just tired of hearing johns for this guy man, and I have nothing against him he was a cool dude. HBK and I were "bad" losses but...where were his "good" wins to indicate he's a better player overall?

 

[Diakonos]

Excellent discussion!

 

[OverLord]

I see that Tai saw the light.

 

[Max?]

I guess the key to being the best marth main is to just play sheik for all your matchups and then just marth vs spacies and have nobody notice this.

Ice had mentioned earlier in the week that he hated marth dittos and that he felt like sheik was his best character in general so it wasn't like he was just CPing me and HBK when he did that, that was legit.

I'm just tired of hearing johns for this guy man, and I have nothing against him he was a cool dude. HBK and I were "bad" losses but...where were his "good" wins to indicate he's a better player overall?

Let it be known as well that PC Kip (secret boss of NY, way too lazy to go to Apex) a Falco, beat Ice's Marth 2-1 without any warmup at all, while Ice had been playing Hax/Amsah for hours before.

The same thing happened last night vs. Ice's Sheik this time, and yes the johns involving his controller came up again. Funny enough I haven't had a "main" controller for the last 3 months, and use a different one EVERY SINGLE TIME I PLAY.

There you go guys, thats why I didn't make bracket.

Stupid controller.


Niko is the truth, Ice exposed.

 

[Van.]

I can't believe that people are being so nice to ICE... dude got *****, ggs, get them next time.

Also niko, how glad are you that that Pi vs. PC's marth mm didn't happen?! lolol