who are bowser jrs best and worst matchups

[miniada]

Who would you considerbest and worst matchups

 

[V1cegrip]

Worst: megaman, mario, villager, sheik, olimar, zss, rosalina, toon link.

Best: Game and Watch, Jigglypuff, Gannondorf, Kirby, King Dedede.

I do think lucario could be a bad matchup too, it all depends if you get that early kart>up B hammer combo kill or not. If you don't close the stock with that reliable killer set-up (or with a hard smash attack read) then it's a very dangerous matchup.

On a personal note I believe Luigi may be one of the worst too, but not sure. Mario is a given however.

 

[miniada]

Worst: megaman, mario, villager, sheik, olimar, zss.

Best: Game and Watch, Jigglypuff, Gannondorf, Kirby, King Dedede.

I do think lucario could be a bad matchup too, it all depends if you get that early kart>up B hammer combo kill or not. If you don't close the stock with that reliable killer set-up then it's a very dangerous matchup.

Isn't jr and lucario 50:50 consedering how easy lucario can be killed

 

[pikazz]

Worst: Megaman, villager and Olimar

Best: King Dedede, G&W, DK and maybe Ganon

 

[V1cegrip]

Isn't jr and lucario 50:50 consedering how easy lucario can be killed

ya maybe it's 50/50 and just extra stressful lol

 

[Nagalfar]

On a personal note I believe Luigi may be one of the worst too, but not sure. Mario is a given however.

Luigi, out of all the top tiers, is probably one of the most "doable" MUs for Jr. Safe, powerful and long reach disjoints give him a good zoning game that Luigi has difficulties to break, and the fireball nerf added to that a lot. Combine that to Jr's very versatile offstage game that can easily contest Luigi's recovery, and you get a MU that is actually not bad at all for him. The only really annoying things outside of grab shenanigans is that the grounded kart can't get past the fireball, but even that can be circumvented if you exploit the super armor a little.
Mario is a complete asshole, though.

I'd say worst are Sheik / Rosa / maybe ZSS & Pac / Megaman while some of his best bets are Falcon and most of the other heavies + swordsmen.

 

[V1cegrip]

Luigi, out of all the top tiers, is probably one of the most "doable" MUs for Jr. Safe, powerful and long reach disjoints give him a good zoning game that Luigi has difficulties to break, and the fireball nerf added to that a lot. Combine that to Jr's very versatile offstage game that can easily contest Luigi's recovery, and you get a MU that is actually not bad at all for him. The only really annoying things outside of grab shenanigans is that the grounded kart can't get past the fireball, but even that can be circumvented if you exploit the super armor a little.
Mario is a complete *******, though.

I'd say worst are Sheik / Rosa / maybe ZSS & Pac / Megaman while some of his best bets are Falcon and most of the other heavies + swordsmen.

Ya I wasn't sure about Luigi, I just knew that before the last patch his fireballs were a nightmare to get around and he gets such reward off of his grabs (bonus dmg to us) and kills early with his down throw to down B. I can see us doing decently vs him (at least compared to mario lol). I do think we have advantage over all the heavies in the game, but I'm not sure about the sword users. I am 2-0 vs the best marth and the best ike over here in socal but I'm still not sold that we have an advantage per se.

also at what point in luigi's recovery do you think we should be trying to go after him? He has a good recovery (distance wise) and I hear that it is gimpable but I rarely gimp it.

 

[xDizxy]

Worst: megaman, mario, villager, sheik, olimar, zss, rosalina, toon link.

Best: Game and Watch, Jigglypuff, Gannondorf, Kirby, King Dedede.

I do think lucario could be a bad matchup too, it all depends if you get that early kart>up B hammer combo kill or not. If you don't close the stock with that reliable killer set-up (or with a hard smash attack read) then it's a very dangerous matchup.

On a personal note I believe Luigi may be one of the worst too, but not sure. Mario is a given however.

Really megaman is Jr's worst matchup? Can you explain. No wonder I had a really hard time beating my brother.

 

[pikazz]

Really megaman is Jr's worst matchup? Can you explain. No wonder I had a really hard time beating my brother.

I can explain this with one word, Lemons

Lemons are really shutting down Jrs Approach options pretty hard thanks to how far the lemons goes, how much mega man can fire (3 fast ones and when a little pause) and worse part is that Mega Man can walk and jump by shooting lemons aswell, creating a wall to Jrs approach.

since your approach options is way limited, a defensive options might be in favor? not really since attacking from distance is what Mega Man does best with all his fast projectiles. the best way is to really be more defensive tricky than Mega man himself and make sure that you always pressure him and not him on you since Mega Man can easy find a small window and reverse the pressure

 

[V1cegrip]

^

10gimmix

 

[Nagalfar]

I can see us doing decently vs him (at least compared to mario lol). I do think we have advantage over all the heavies in the game, but I'm not sure about the sword users. I am 2-0 vs the best marth and the best ike over here in socal but I'm still not sold that we have an advantage per se.

also at what point in luigi's recovery do you think we should be trying to go after him? He has a good recovery (distance wise) and I hear that it is gimpable but I rarely gimp it.

From what I've gathered, the only two swordsmen I see holding their ground against Jr are Ike (good spacing options and reach / power) and Shulk (3km long beam sword) but they still overall suffer from the same problems as the others, as if not a lot of answers to Jr's stage control and offstage game.
Luigi is kind of tricky but you have a tool for every way of recovery he has : whack him in the face if he goes for Green Missile (you can go as deep as necessary) or uses his tornado to keep momentum (there's a small window after he finishes it), or drop your up b on him if he tries to recover low using double jump tornado + up B. The way I see it, you're not going to necessary stop him from going back on stage but at least build up a LOT of damage if you put him offstage, which is very important to keep pressure on him as he dies relatively early against us.

 

[Mr Moosebones]

Link and Toon Link are not "good" matchups for bjr, merely even. Link is a tad easier because bjrs low% combos on him are absolutely insane but there isn't a clear advantage one way or the other. A few of the MUs people have mentioned in here being super polarising aren't really that bad/good for bjr. Jigglypuff, for example only loses until she clips you while airborne and then she can carry you offstage and gimp for free.

And to essentially parrot what other people have said:

Absolute worst: Sheik, Olimar

Best: DK, Ganon

 

[miniada]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...1H6Xnh9tcnIDV7MFQ&sig2=hEQM1V-Mtr7rjalldkp7ww were discussing jr and we cold use some help

 

[Mr Moosebones]

New DK isn't a great mu anymore. What used to be advantageous is now 50/50 at best due to bjr dying super early to cargo upthrow> uair. For whatever reason the uair hits the top half of bjr's hurtbox, meaning he dies way earlier than he should.

 

[pikazz]

New DK isn't a great mu anymore. What used to be advantageous is now 50/50 at best due to bjr dying super early to cargo upthrow> uair. For whatever reason the uair hits the top half of bjr's hurtbox, meaning he dies way earlier than he should.

thats actually really sad D: they should fix to "Jrs Weak Hurtbox" doesnt overlap the Clown Cart Hurtbox. it should be vice versa (that its easier to hit the Cart Hurtbox instead)

 

[Mr Moosebones]

thats actually really sad D: they should fix to "Jrs Weak Hurtbox" doesnt overlap the Clown Cart Hurtbox. it should be vice versa (that its easier to hit the Cart Hurtbox instead)

Yeah I agree completely.

 

[Vult Redux]

speaking of Olimar...

has anyone else noticed that pikmin latched onto the clown car are not killed by Jr's Up Special - and that they just move to his body instead?

has anyone found a way to knock pikmin off effectively?? I remember that it's always a struggle.

 

[eagle_master]

speaking of Olimar...

has anyone else noticed that pikmin latched onto the clown car are not killed by Jr's Up Special - and that they just move to his body instead?

has anyone found a way to knock pikmin off effectively?? I remember that it's always a struggle.

I actually faced 1 Olimar beside CPUs with Bowser jr. (might explained why I lost badly xD) and didn't noticed it. Ill try to test it tomorrow morning if I have time.

 

[V1cegrip]

speaking of Olimar...

has anyone else noticed that pikmin latched onto the clown car are not killed by Jr's Up Special - and that they just move to his body instead?

has anyone found a way to knock pikmin off effectively?? I remember that it's always a struggle.

Me and Falln tested for a while and finally found a reliable way to knock pikmin off. If it is on the face, crouch and then immediately uair, that will bring the pikmin lower on your body for your uair hammer to hit, you gotta be quick but it works for sure. Sadly if pikmin are attatched to the back of your head there is nothing you can really do about that. If they are on your kart Side B seems to be a good option. I started using the crouching uair technique in my last tournament match vs olimar and it is viable way to remove pikmin.

 

[Mr Moosebones]

^Yeah that's literally the only way to get them off your face. Such a hassle. The downside to floating hitboxes...

 

[Fatmanonice]

Worst: Characters with quick follow up attacks (especially aerials) and/or reliable long range attacks. ex:
Best: Characters with crap range and/or can't really handle aerial pressure. ex:

 

[oZzIIgk]

I have a question about the weirdest matchup in Smash 4. How do I play Boswer Jr. vs. Pacman, and who does the MU favor?

 

[Mr Moosebones]

I have a question about the weirdest matchup in Smash 4. How do I play Boswer Jr. vs. Pacman, and who does the MU favor?

It favours Pacman- and that MU isn't as weird as Kirby vs Olimar; the true definition of jank.

Essentially Pacman never has to approach and while he sometimes has a hard time finding kills in the same way bjr does, he can win the mu by playing anti aggression, which is the worst possible thing to play against as bowser jr.

Probably +1 for PacMan, definitely no worse than that.

 

[Sykkamorre]

For the record guys, we roughly feel like the Bowser jr. MU against us dorfs is even at worst.

Don't be sleepin' on the dark lord now, ya hear?

 

[Mr Moosebones]

That's cool. I'm guessing you guys have extensive practice in that mu

 

[Sykkamorre]

That's cool. I'm guessing you guys have extensive practice in that mu

And I'm guessing that you guys have done nothing but play good ganon's.

 

[Mr Moosebones]

And I'm guessing that you guys have done nothing but play good ganon's.

Ontario has a ludicrous number of dedicated Ganon mains. We have one on our PR. It's actually super bizarre.

 

[Sykkamorre]

Ontario has a ludicrous number of dedicated Ganon mains. We have one on our PR. It's actually super bizarre.

Oh, fair enough then! XD

Where I am there is no mains because there's no bloody scene. C'est la vie

 

[K3H]

I feel like Lucas is a really bad MU for Jr. as well. You can't approach with the kart, since Lucas' PK Fire, Nair, Zair, Fair, Dair, and a well spaced Dair all beat it out. Mechakoopa is stopped entirely by PK Fire, and can even be reflected, so there goes stage control.

The only other options are aerial approaches, which are stopped by PK Fire and Zair, and grounded ones, which can be stopped with Lucas' quick ground options such as Ftilt, Jab, and any well spaced aerial.

Not to mention Jr. is heavy, and Lucas devours heavy characters. And Jr. also has trouble killing Lucas as well, since Lucas has multiple fast, and low-commitment options on the ground.

And those 3 kill throws that Lucas has (and a set up out of a throw) along with a decently hard hitting (and quick) Fsmash, a hard hitting (end effective ledge guard option) Dsmash, and a ~80% killing (albeit risky) Usmash means that Lucas could get albeit kill with comparative ease.

Any thoughts?

 

[pikazz]

a friend of mine is a really good ganon, despite of him not playing against Jr that often, his Ganon is really good and did put me to bad situation.

of 10 matches between him and me with Jr and Ganon, its 6-4.

I am really really good with Jr but he is really really good with Ganon so I can say that the MU is even at worse but +1 for Jr at best

 

[Reila]

I hate pretty much every match up when playing as Jr.

 

[The_ToolBag]

another one of the hard matchups is roy for whatever reason.

 

[Mr Moosebones]

Bjr has issues vs characters who control space well, like marth (and roy, as you mentioned); also Ike to an extent. I don't think he necessarily loses vs any of these characters (Marth feels like a true 50:50 imo), but using your fair and bair for spacing is less useful vs these characters since they have faster moves with the same reach and the ability to take stocks noticeably quicker. All 3 are really susceptible to bjr's bait game though. Marth, in particular, can be forced to panic up b out of a combo for fear of eating 40ish% otherwise. You can take advantage of his helpless state and punish really hard. Almost all of this stuff applies to Roy as well, though you'd be smart to challenge roy whenever he's offstage; Bjr's abilities to gimp > Roy's abilities to recover

 

[aircaves]

Someone I have a ton of trouble with is falco,

his lasers make it difficult to approach with the clown cart, his reflector means the mechakoopa can be used against you (even though the clown cart can drive through it for a surprise attack) basically he has options to ruin any approach options. His speed and combos make it even harder to play defensive. Does anyone have any suggestions for this matchup because I haven't found a way to combat a good falco with bowser jr.

 

[Mr Moosebones]

Falco's kind of tricky almost solely because of his combo game. Luckily you've got a hell of a combo game too, but the fact that he has to commit less than you do is a definite advantage in the MU. He's a double edged sword offstage as well in this sense. He's got a great edgeguarding repertoire and if you're not careful you can eat a side b spike, but he's generally helpless when trying to recover vs bjr. His side B's hitbox is 100% on the illusion trail he creates behind him and it doesn't overlap with his hurtbox, meaning he's prone to getting knocked out of it with nair or fair, or even bair if you're a timing/spacing champ. If he tries to recover low you can get super easy stagespikes on him (as I'm writing this I'm realizing his recovery flowchart is extremely similar to BJr's).

In neutral you have to be really weary of using side b as an approach instead of just as a punish. Reflector really messes BJr's ability to get in on Falco if it's used correctly. Most of the Falco's I play tend to be predictable in their approach game (maybe Falco's approaches are crap? I don't know enough to comment on that specifically) so I focus mostly on bait and punish mindgames and anti-aggro/faux-aggro mixups.

In closing, Libya is a land of contrasts.

 

[FlabbyOrb]

anybody got insight on the peach vs koopaling matchup?

 

[Sonnet]

I'm seeing a lot of on the worst list, and honestly, I'm not quite sure that he belongs there.

I don't disagree that the matchup is bad- it's in favor of Mario, now question. Recently, though, I've looked back on my more recent sets and haven't lost to a Mario since I first started the game (including wins against high-ranking locals and Marios at EVO).

Whether this is because they don't know the MU or I know too much about the MU, I have no clue. What I can say is that I played each set with a more defensive mindset; since Mario has all of the advantages, I let them make the mistakes. Since 's fair is absolutely incredible for spacing, I usually let it take over and keep them at bay while I wait for an opportunity to approach/punish.

It's really all about patience, spacing, and punishing. A bad MU, but I'd personally put it at 40:60 .

Maybe that's just a personal stat, but that's what I can offer.

 

[Mr Moosebones]

Your description actually makes it sound like mario is, in fact, a really bad mu and that you're winning through better matchup knowledge. Mario is an easy character to predict and play against even without much matchup experience, bowser jr is not. I'd say the mu is 40:60 as well, but based on the way you typed that my guess is you don't think 40:60 is as drastic as it actually is.

 

[Sonnet]

Your description actually makes it sound like mario is, in fact, a really bad mu and that you're winning through better matchup knowledge. Mario is an easy character to predict and play against even without much matchup experience, bowser jr is not. I'd say the mu is 40:60 as well, but based on the way you typed that my guess is you don't think 40:60 is as drastic as it actually is.

Yeah, I suppose we have different mindsets for how 40:60 is interpreted. For me, 40:60 is bad, but not terribly far from even. "Drastic" for me would be 30:70, 20:80, etc etc.

 

[miniada]

I main mario and play jr as a casual
60:40.
s game Involves zoning with projectiles and approachung with side b counters both. He has cape to stop his zoning and fireballs to stop his approaches. He can combo jr hard with up tilt and his quick aerials. He has better mobility and frame data.Jr's recovery leaves himself wide open to getting caped, fludded, and dunked. That's my opinion.