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It is jank though. Most custom setups are a one trick pony. Customs don't suddenly make a low tier viable, they just needlessly complicate the game. Matchups should be Character vs. Character, not Custom2233 vs. Character.
Tell me, how is a custom move fundamentally more 'jank' than a default? Would you be fine with Villager having EBT and Trip sapling if they were default? Or DK with Kong Cyclone? Or Marth's Dashing Assault? Or any number of other custom moves? How exactly, is it a cheap kill if it's done with a special move? Because that's what customs are. Special moves.
Taking a low tier character and giving them a single decent option through customs is jank. It doesn't make your character any more viable. Plenty of low tiers in Melee in Brawl had maybe one good approach or setup, and playing that character was jank because it was almost your only good option. It's jank because you're relying on a single custom move to somehow elevate your character beyond their default move set.
Uh, I don't know what you've heard about Static Manny, but he's been wrecking people in the Southeast for a while now, with or without customs. Sonic is ridiculous regardless of customs, and he's a very skilled player.
Dont mind me. Just passing by today's contradictory argument.
Yes this is because of crouch canceling but if you could crouch you could sheild.
There are a lot of assumptions going on here. Customs on doesn't result in every character getting one isolated spammable move like you seem to think it does. Many custom sets have good synergy with existing specials or standard attacks, meaning you can now more safely use the moves that your character already has, due to things like the customs helping recovery, aiding movement, or dissuading your opponent from trying certain strategies. Look at Palutena: using lightweight gives her phenomenal movement options, but she still has to utilize her normal attacks and other specials for dishing out damage. Customs just allow her to better execute her moves. Or look at Ike: his close combat is by no means spammable on its own, but the additional pressure of the move and his improved recovery means Ike can play more aggressively with the rest of his toolkit. Not every custom is a Kong Cyclone.
Sonic is made even MORE ridiculous because of customs. Static may be pretty good, but is he really top 12 at a 1850 person tournament? Is he REALLY as good as players like Ally or Aba? Based on what I saw at Evo, he MIGHT be on a similar level to Boss, if anything.
Dude has gone roughly even with some of the best in Florida, including ESAM, iirc.
Unfortunately, customs didn't tend to give more characters tools to reasonably fight it because he was still doing it in top 12 and was eliminated by 1111 Mario. Once again, I'm not 100% against customs, I just think they should have their own pools/brackets because of their effect on the meta. Winners (Customs) and Losers (Customs) alongside Winners and Losers brackets without customs. It literally requires clicking a button to turn on and off, so you don't even need more rigs to have the separated bracket. It's just so different from Vanilla Sm4sh that it could literally be it's own thing with it's own rules, so let the custom community work that out on it's own with it's own brackets. This is just my opinion, though.
I see you're ignoring the part where Static Manny regularly places incredibly well in a stacked region with or without customs. Maybe he's just really, really good with one of the best characters in the game. Maybe players weren't ready for that Sonic playstyle.
Then he'll do fine with both sets of brackets, won't he? I never ignored his skill, I strictly spoke about how customs in general change the meta quite a lot, and should be experimented selarately from Vanilla Sm4sh, because it's fairly accomplished. (But could still change!) As both a Mario main and someome who watched the matches several times, I have to disagree--Ally almost lost to Static, despite having the "matchup advantage" as you implied, having to play Static at his own game and time him out for one of the sets. I don't think Scalding FLUDD would've done much due to it's abyssmal range. If anything, high-pressured is the way to go. Force position changes and do what you can to him because of it--although this is easier said than done against Sonic.
It's a lot worse with customs because he lands for free due to double spring...the whole deal with Sonic is that he has trouble landing and you can punish that, customs make him a lot more polarizing.
Just bring a set up dude. You'll get customs, the tournament will run faster, and you'll probably get a discount. It doesn't take very long at all to transfer customs. 20 minutes, tops.
What about the characters who don't have good custom moves, then? Since those characters don't have anything to match the other characters with, they fall behind. Because of this, custom moves would widen the gap between the characters. Just because a few characters benefit from custom moves doesn't mean that the game is more balanced overall. If a custom move or two causes a character to become drastically better than before, then that's more of a sign that those custom moves weren't balanced very well or at all.
I get what you're trying to get across here, but I don't think customs necessarily were the end-all be-all deciding factor in whether or not you won those matches. Like you said, Mav wasn't prepared for the Mii Brawler match-up, more than likely due to a lack of match-up experience. That's not really his fault though. Well...it sort of is, but hear me out on this one.
There way more than 5 viable characters in Melee. I know this was a generalization but it was irking me.
That's just not adapting to a match up. Apparently he DI'd into it multiple times, how is this any different from DI'ing into a Hoo-Hah?
This is more of a pro - customs argument than anything. He adapted to the jank and the rest of the matches played accordingly. The reason we use a "Best of X" rule set is so you can get as much information as possible regarding your opponent and their character. If we only played 1 game in a set I could totally see where you're coming from.
Regarding the turbo controller method - It s RNG, so it's possible it took you a week, but it only took me 3 days (on and off). I left it on during school ( 8 - 4 ) then turned it off until I went to bed ( 9 - 7 ). Doing it like this took me 3 days. However, I already had a few unlocked, and had to get my last one manually. It still shouldn't take a week.
Thank you for sharing your story about the logistical issues you have in your area. That's extremely unfortunate, and I don't think anyone will fault you for choosing customs off over customs on in that scenario. Hopefully more people realize it isn't such an easy fix, and it's something we should be discussing if we truly want a customs on game.
There are only 10 slots for customs characters iirc so not all of these could be used.
10 slots is correct, yes, but there's only 8 sets there. 2 slots per move.
Oh, right I'm dumb.
This would omainly benefit characters who only need one custom to become better characters, such as Sonic, Sheik, and Pikachu. This would stuff out characters who need(or would greatly appreciate) more than one, like Palutena, Kirby, or WFT.
I'll gladly go a Customs Off tournament, and still use the same character actually. I'll just be disappointed if Customs On truly dies forever.
Oh it won't die out, EVO pretty much proved that there is nothing wrong with a customs on tournament. The issue is if the local players prefer it one way or if the TOs prefer it one way. Or if TOs just don't want to hassle with the extra mile you have to go for customs.I'll gladly go a Customs Off tournament, and still use the same character actually. I'll just be disappointed if Customs On truly dies forever.
So if that's the case, what's wrong with venues alternating between the two like Xanadu has been, and some majors having it with and some without?
). They just take it and move on. And this would be announced ahead of time so if you don't like a metagame, you don't have to go.
Yeah, but correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most Japanese players do worse in U.S. tournaments than at home? I remember hearing the different environments of cheering fans (some not cheering) are a struggle and a sharp contrast to the quiet and super polite atmosphere they have at home. I remember hearing this in the smash documentary from Ken and just recently I think ZeRo said the same thing. Losing to villager in pools doesn't necessarily mean it was customs. Also, I remember reading that the Japanese aren't too familiar with customs either. As far as I know, only Abadango has done well in the U.S.
If i have to go to a custom off i wouldnt be using my one a true main shulk because really need decesive arts and advancing airslash to play the way i play. I know for sure i would play vanilla link thats my second best char and thats so sad because i have spent so many many many many hours on shulk, like really really many.I'll gladly go a Customs Off tournament, and still use the same character actually. I'll just be disappointed if Customs On truly dies forever.
Meta Knight made top 32, and his customs are often cited as among the very worst (while likewise MK is clearly not a top character in the first place). What better proof could there be that these fears are unfounded? I will say, from many months of experience, it's very obvious to me that the customs on game is drastically better balanced than the default game; there are just plain more characters able to do useful stuff. I actually look at it a lot like Reflex does. The best characters like Sheik can already do lots of "dumb", "jank", or whatever ridiculous word we want to use for it stuff that basically amounts to "stuff that makes me win". Customs in general represent more ways to win. The ones that fall to characters who already have the tools to win don't make the biggest difference (since those characters are capable of winning regardless) but make a HUGE difference when they fall to characters who don't (since those characters are suddenly rational selections). It's almost impossible for a force like this not to result in better balance, and predictably, the results turn out to be much better balance. If someone like Jigglypuff gets left behind, so what? Jigglypuff was already really bad, and better balance is about there being fewer, not more, characters as bad as Jigglypuff.
On the subject of MK Customs, its customs are so good that 1111 is best set except in like, few matchups where High Speed Drill can be useful.
2x wiifit trainer top32 Evo disagrees so hard.
I agree that knowing a matchup is a player's responsibility, though I don't like Mii Brawler and feel like the character allows worse players to win over stronger ones. I gave my anecdote mainly because @
Amazing Ampharos
was looking for a situation where customs affected EVO pool results.