What are your opinions on Customs Post-Evo 2015?

[Jiggly]

So many people thought customs were gonna ruin evo, and we would have players that were practicing jank infinites and camping, and that sm4sh would be ruined by customs. Many people thought that customs would lead to more hype matches. At Evo we didn't see an uprising of OP customs, but there still were some issues. But at the end, jank is jank, and the skilled players still seemed to take it.

The point of this thread is to explain if your position on a customs legal metagame has changed, or not. Feel free to explain, or post crazy giphys to prove your points. Debates are fine, but no flaming.

 

[Jiggly]

I personally wasn't sure what I wanted before Evo, but was leaning towards no customs. After watching the slightly different matches, and how hype customs could be, I'm fully in favor. The fear of a guy sitting in his basement practicing infinites day after day is an invalid argument, because there are infinites even in Vanilla smash. Customs are easy to do with the help of 3ds hacking, and @Amazing Ampharos's customs setup. They did bring in weird hitboxes and strategies we weren't used to, but we have been adapting. I think Customs are healthy for sm4sh, as it sets it even more apart from Melee, which shows it is still a solid smash game.

 

[adom4]

I was for customs since the beggining but i admit that i was worried that there were going to be a lot of stupid matches (mostly with Villager & HSB).
Fortunately with the exception of captain awesum (which mostly relies on a gimmick) EVO went very well & as powerful as HSB is it's not the instant win button people were making it out to be, so overall EVO made me even more in favor of customs.

 

[TrevyTrev]

I hope/believe that customs will stay in place.

 

[Rashyboy05]

Considering how EVO went with customs. I see zero point in getting rid of customs for future tournaments. The only "jank" custom shown at a tournament having a bad effect being Extreme Balloon Trip (and Timbre counter to a lesser extent). Kong Cyclone nor HSB really haven't shown their "cancerous" effects during EVO(unless I missed a set or two about those two customs showing their "jank" then please correct me).

 

[Ray-Den]

I was always pro customs. Seeing how much better characters like Kirby, Palutena, Ganondorf etc with customs are (without having "jank" moves), is really the deciding factor for me. Of course we havent seen much to nothing of these characters, but still, the potential is there and the game is very young, and in the future someone could pull something off with them.

"jank" customs are only kong cyclone, extreme balloon trip and this hammer spin dash thing (besides the default special i already consider as "jank"), because all the players do is throwing out these moves as much as possible. As opponent, youre NOT fighting the player, but the move.

I think besides these "jank" customs and sonic in general (time-out strategies are lame), smash 4 has a bright future and is really fun to watch

 

[shane3x]

Half the issue with customs is mostly logistical. I'd be happy if Nintendo released a $5 Custom Unlock Shortcut DLC that just gives me them all rather then having to unlock them which will take forever or 3DS hack. Of course getting every players preferred setup along with controls and all that adds time.

Hopefully customs receive the same patch and balance attention the standard set does. Otherwise when people do prac whatever nonsense combo's and builds they come up with it'll just lead to bans.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

This just in: exactly none of the fears of the anti-customs crowd came true. Winners, losers, and grand finals had, combined, one custom move, and it was used as an actual attack maybe three times. The winner? Default diddy. Second place? Default shiek. Third place? ZSS with one barely-used, low-impact custom. Those horrible dominant Pikachus and Rosalinas? One Pikachu showed up in top 8, and one Rosalina, played as a secondary by Abandango (who proceeded to lose badly with her). I'll be accepting apologies in writing.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

*mutters something about smashboards moving slightly after loading something right as I was clicking a vote option*

Was trying to click the first option, got the second one instead.

 

[Waluigi is too big]

I love playing with customs, but I was worried that something like custom villager and others would be too much of a problem.

Most of those gimmicks drowned in pools.

 

[NegaNixx]

I've been for customs from the beginning. I still am.

After I watched CEO though I was really impressed by how the meta was looking without them as well. CEO was absolutely fantastic, but EVO just blew it out the water for me. Besides Static Manny's Sonic (which I respect, but would never call exciting), and Regi the GnW match vs. Dabuz. Every match for me was hype. With or without customs. Captain Awesum vs Larry Lurr, I was definitely on the (vill)Edge(r) of my seat watching Larry fight to win. Angel Cortez vs. Abadongo? That was a beautiful set, and ESAM vs Abadango was like two wild animals going at it. Even little things like Nairo switching off Paralyzer to Blaster Shot against Shiek (False and ZeR0) made the matches that much more dynamic.

The only thing I didn't like was actually Ally. Not for not using customs specifically but more for being stubborn and not doing everything he could to win. That's not competitive and it really bothered me since Smash 'n Splash even. He played great, but stubbornness held him back. Scalding FLUDD and Fast Fire Balls could have helped, Cresent Slash and Iai counter would've helped. He put himself at a disadvantage. But he did represent his characters well even without customs.

The beauty of the Custom's game is that you don't have to use customs. No one forces 1123 Marth on you. Or 3112 Pac-Man. But you also open up this large ocean of dynamic play and it's hype and beautiful. Top 8 remained the expected (Zero, Mr. R, Nairo, Abadango, Ally, Dabuz, ESAM, Fow) maybe short Rain, MVD, or Nietono.

The top sixteen was still competitive, the top 32 was filled with High Level players. It was a joy to watch. So yes I'm still for Customs. Not as a need but as just an addition to the already great thing we have going here.

 

[Raijinken]

I just want Sakurai to make customs selectable piecemeal at character selection, and to either make that All Customs DLC or revise the unlocks to eliminate duplicates (or make the 3DS Transfer process UNLOCK the customs instead of just copying the sets). That way, all the anti-custom scrubs can lose their one valid argument and we can move on to a golden age of moveset diversity.

100% pro customs, 110% after EVO.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I was for customs before EVO. Still am. I'll admit I was worried that we'd be drowning in a sea of Kong Cyclone, Heavy Skull Bash, and whatnot, but that didn't happen. Like, at all. Esam got some Thunder Wave/HSB kills, yes, but he also fished super hard for HSB vs. Abadango and missed every single one. (It also got him killed when the water added its momentum. Proof that you can't mindlessly spam it and expect to win? Even a player of Esam's caliber.)

That said, we also didn't see as many customs as I would have expected. Others have already touched on this so I won't go into much detail. I do wonder if it's because the players evaluated their options and decided the default set was best for their purposes (Abadango probably did this since none of the EVO sets had default trampoline), or if it was because they simply dismissed customs out of hand. The former is fine, but the latter is something I hope isn't true, because it doesn't speak entirely well of them.

 

[Pyr]

Going against the crowd here i guess. They didnt add anything besides hsb, speed bike, and star bit. Would rather a more easily accessible game over having midtier shuffled around and with a few customs sprinkled where it matters.

 

[Raijinken]

Going against the crowd here i guess. They didnt add anything besides hsb, speed bike, and star bit. Would rather a more easily accessible game over having midtier shuffled around and with a few customs sprinkled where it matters.

As much as I love accessibility, EVO is not an arena where accessibility matters at all.

Also I saw a Sheik get a stagespike with Gravity Grenade. There was definitely more use than you're implying, though not really in the top 8.

 

[Doruge]

Going against the crowd here i guess. They didnt add anything besides hsb, speed bike, and star bit. Would rather a more easily accessible game over having midtier shuffled around and with a few customs sprinkled where it matters.

They allowed Dapuffster to actually use his main character, you think that's not something? Not to mention the Palutena in top 32.

 

[AvengerV]

I'm for it now. Seeing that customs weren't completely broken in competitive play just led to more hype matches imo. I haven't had this much fun watching a tournament in forever.

 

[Pyr]

As much as I love accessibility, EVO is not an arena where accessibility matters at all.

Also I saw a Sheik get a stagespike with Gravity Grenade. There was definitely more use than you're implying, though not really in the top 8.

I know how much was ussd. I was there.lol.

Ya, accessibility wasnt evo's goal, but it's a better goal then having irrelivent characters be aightly less so, or having bad characters be worse overall because they just dont get stuff. Ex Zelda, Jiggs. Its a better goal for the future of this gsme.

 

[outfoxd]

Im of the opinion I'd like to see customs and default run as separate divisions, because i personally like the idea of playing both. I also understand that most people don't want to split time though playing in two metas still transfers fundamentally.

 

[T4ylor]

They allowed Dapuffster to actually use his main character, you think that's not something? Not to mention the Palutena in top 32.

But they can allow Dapuffster to use Mii Brawler even with Customs set to Off. They just choose not to.

I'm still against them for the same reason Pyr is.
Edit: Two more reasons: A couple customs just promote timeouts, which extends the length of events and because customs becoming standard would negatively effect the people that predominately play online for their experience.

 

[Bribery]

My current position is "I don't really care". I'll be happy with either one becoming the tournament standard. CEO and EVO showed that defaults and customs are equally exciting. (Yes, I even thought the timeouts in EVO were hype). None of the "custom jank" that everyone complains about really made a huge impact on results. The only outlier was Captain Awesum but I doubt he would have gotten as far if people were more prepared for that strategy.

 

[Raijinken]

My current position is "I don't really care". I'll be happy with either one becoming the tournament standard. CEO and EVO showed that defaults and customs are equally exciting. (Yes, I even thought the timeouts in EVO were hype). None of the "custom jank" that everyone complains about really made a huge impact on results. The only outlier was Captain Awesum but I doubt he would have gotten as far if people were more prepared for that strategy.

I think EE's "How DARE you look salty!" was the highlight of that entire day, personally.

But yeah. The game's exciting either way. Personally, I just think it's more exciting when players get to show their preference or tricks with customs than when everyone's using the same version of the same character.

 

[Doruge]

But they can allow him to Dapuffster to use Mii Brawler even with Customs set to Off. They just choose not to.

I'm still against them for the same reason Pyr is.

But they DON'T allow him to use it. And the customs-on tournaments always do. Saying that customs don't add anything is a complete joke.

 

[T4ylor]

But they DON'T allow him to use it. And the customs-on tournaments always do. Saying that customs don't add anything is a complete joke.

That's on the TOs. And I never said they didn't add anything. They don't change too much though, just shift around character strength and gives more options. I also don't think having more is necessarily better.

 

[Doruge]

That's on the TOs. And I never said they didn't add anything. They don't change too much though, just shift around character strength and gives more options. I also don't think having more is necessarily better.

You don't think having more is better? Tell that to the people who main characters that need customs to be viable. It's pretty selfish to force characters into being low tier garbage just because you don't want to have more competition.

 

[T4ylor]

You don't think having more is better? Tell that to the people who main characters that need customs to be viable. It's pretty selfish to force characters into being low tier garbage just because you don't want to have more competition.

I was never competition to begin with. My main is bottom tier with or without customs.

 

[Raijinken]

I was never competition to begin with. My main is bottom tier with or without customs.

Alas your avatar block doesn't inform us of who this mysterious character is. But I could probably guess it's Zelda, Samus, a Fire Emblem character, or Wii Fit Trainer.

And all of those benefit from customs. Their normals are just too lacking for the benefit to matter. When the runner up scores 50, it doesn't matter if you're 0 or 49, you're still lower. But a 49-score character stands a better chance of being able to out-play a lesser opponent on a better character, and that sort of change is why customs should be kept if their impact on relative strength is minimal.

 

[Goesasu]

Customs allowed wii fit trainer, charizard and palutena to make it to top 32. (not sure if gyw and rob used them.)

They add tons of new strategies for a lot of characters and that is amazing for itself. Cusstoms make the game deeper, competitive and more enjoyable in the end.

I ll list what each character usually gets from customs, these are only the most common ones and i might miss some.

2333 or 2332. Fast fireball, gust cape, explosive punch, high pressure or scalding flud.
Its a different mario, not insta better or anything, but it spice things up.

1311 or 3311. quick missile adds a better recovery for sure, the power of iceballs still in the air.

2312. Sleepy toad its good unlike regular, flying peach is debatable, and light veggie seems good enough.

3332. Fire Roar, dash slash, sliding fortress and turbulent bombs makes a more mobile and safer bowser allowing him to approach and land better. (this one being super important to him).

3311 seems good enough, little sidegrades but nothing major.

2311 luma warp and shooting star bits makes her just a little better, nothing truly amazing as some people make it out to be.

i actually prefer 1111, but some people claim 1313 grounding dash and big mechakoopa can shine.

1212. Speeding bike and rose scented waft make him slightly better.

3331. short orfer chef and Chain judge are little upgrades but just little. trampoline lunch gives him an amazing OOS kill move.

xx3x sure kong cyclone its very very good, but not gamebreaking as a lot of people believe. practice against it and its a non issue.
1121 rocketbarrel attack is nice to have sometimes, other time not so amazing. just another risky kill move.


1213. a better boomerang and meteor bomb. he gets a little better whirling leap is nice too if you like it.

1311. dins blaze is amazing edgeguarding tool. maybe im missing something about custom phantoms but i dont like them.

1111 or 1211. God save us from the all powered gravity granade not used in the grand finals at EVO. Seriously just stop prettending that customs make top tiers better.

2122. warlock blade, dark fist and wizard dropkick makes ganon more mobile and stronger. amazing upgrade.

2133 (maybe) IMO just sidegrades. fire arrow to camp, flying spin attack hits harder and short fuse bomb actually dont know.

1213 and probably more. relentess missile and mega bomb allow him to keep distance as the zoner she should be. Also can mix things up to trap your opponent which is really nice for her.

blast shot was used at evo, still not convincing. whip lash is ok at best.

guiding bow is ok at best, amplifying orbitars or impact orbitars depends on matchups.

2312. From bottom tier to top 32 EVO. Thank you super speed and lightweight, explosive flame is ok at best.
1123 is the best marth, sadly wasnt used. cresecnt slash makes his OOS and grab game very good, lai counter is the best non shulk counter.

2221. Close combat and aether drive patches his recovery issues. tempest is nice because windboxes. amazing upgrade.

3331. speed thunder and fire wall help a ton against rush down, gliding elwind is faster and less predictable way to recover and easier to spike with. Amazing upgrade.

3x3x. jumping inhale and particulary upper cutter makes kirby faster, safer, stronger. amazing upgrade.

x3xx bouncing gordo is safer to use, harder to bounce and allows traping mix ups.awesome.

1211 high speed drill is ok at best as a sidegrade. The big looser in a custom meta.

im no expert here but grounding blow its very offensive, safer and harder to react too.

xx3x twisting fox kills but it has slower startup and doesnt travel as far. risky.

xx23. fast fire bird makes him faster and allows more combos. reflector void its so good.

2311 thunder wave and heavy skull bash while good not gamebreaking as people believed.

1313 dragon rush is faster and safer, rock hurl allows him to land with super armor, very important.

1111 or 2111 snaring aura sphere is cool and all but default feels better most of the time.

1312. pound blitz and leaping rest true combos¡¡ yet nobody seems to care o well.

1111 or some custom shurikens tricks. still not impressed.

3x23 Zigzag can along with mega gunmen is the definition of trapping you opponent. duck jump snag is a little upgrade for having hitboxes.

1131 high speed burner allows more combos and safer recovery.
Im no expert but at least xxx2 psi vacuum works on non proyectile users.

2111 falcon dash punch is just a less powerfull but easier to land falcon punch. its ok.

1322. extreme ballon trip and timber counter allows him to camp on the ledge. Very powerfull strategy but no near invencible but you must practice this matchups. powerful but not gamebreaking as some thiought.

nothing truly amazing IMO. might be wrong.

2321 from zero to hero top 32 EVO. enriched sun, weighted header and jumbo hoop makes a low tier to very good character.

2332. Soaring tornado fixes his recovery issues, old one two killing move.

2123 or 3123 or 1123. As a shulk main i can tell you that advancing air slash is even more important than power vision. Regular, decesive or hyper arts seems to be player preference but each of them completely changes his gameplan. Huge benefit of customs but non shulk mains will not understand why and believe its for power vision, geez.

freaky fruit seems useful, as meteor trampoline but im no expert here.

so many options and almost all seems useful. danger wrap seems a nice upgrade in every case.

1211 hammer spindahs makes an already good move even better but just as campy. Good but not a problem.

Customs allows them to exist and be played. 3 more characters spicing things up.


Before saying that customs are cheap or anything like that inform yourself about what they bring to the table and only then open your mouth. Customs are not cheap, they help tons of character and allows them to fight face to face against top tiers, or to at least, have a chance.

 

[Big-Cat]

I'm still for them, but the logistics shouldn't have ever been an issue if Sakurai had a brain with this.

 

[LightLV]

My stance on customs? Special moves aren't enough to rebalance a character.

Clearly, the top players in EVO weren't even really using them...it was very nearly non-custom play towards the top of the bracket.

 

[neohopeSTF]

Don't forget customs also allowed Captainawesum and Static Manny to do what they did.

 

[Magik0722]

Don't forget customs also allowed Captainawesum and Static Manny to do what they did.

static manny did not use customs until the 3rd game against ally, which he lost.

 

[neohopeSTF]

static manny did not use customs until the 3rd game against ally, which he lost.

He used them against abadango's Rosalina. Who knows if used them during pools.

 

[Doruge]

Don't forget customs also allowed Captainawesum and Static Manny to do what they did.

You've obviously never seen Static Manny in a customs-off tournament.

 

[neohopeSTF]

You've obviously never seen Static Manny in a customs-off tournament.

Doesn't change the fact with customs he attempted time outs.

 

[Magik0722]

Doesn't change the fact with customs he attempted time outs.

but that problem cant be attributed to customs, only sonic.

 

[neohopeSTF]

but that problem cant be attributed to customs, only sonic.

But 6WX played differently and didn't even use Double Spring or went for timeouts iirc.

 

[Magik0722]

But 6WX played differently and didn't even use Double Spring or went for timeouts iirc.

what im saying is that the custom isnt what allows timeouts with sonic. Its just sonics character. So 6w didnt go for timeouts? Thats just playstyle differences. Are you just trolling?

 

[FullMoon]

But 6WX played differently and didn't even use Double Spring or went for timeouts iirc.

That's a player difference.

StaticManny could camp with or without customs and he just did it because that's how he wants to do it. Customs have nothing to do with it.

 

[neohopeSTF]

That's a player difference.

StaticManny could camp with or without customs and he just did it because that's how he wants to do it. Customs have nothing to do with it.

He could camp with or without customs but you can't argue that double spring and hammer spindash didn't help him make it easier. Also what about Captainawesum?