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If your customs sucks I don't really care. Everyone isn't going to benefit from customs. It's having the option and not having the option.
Why in the world would we watch that set? The person eventually dies off the side to helicopter kick at like 60.
Mad I missed the reference.
Potentially less turnout to both types of events. In an ideal world people would show up to every Smash tournament but people will try to use thier attendance or lack thereof to push more tournaments of their preferred ruleset.
The second game is certainly worse than the first.
It's more like Wizards printing a cycle in 4 colors, and people declaring that they should automatically be banned since that's unfair to the 5th color.
That's hella unfair to the 5th color.
I feel like this thread is taking the "logistic" side to be just "it's hard to setup at a tournament". Tournament settings aren't really everything - I'm much more concerned about my players who are turning up with no idea what's going on as they haven't spent several weeks grinding out an RNG unlock system. "Just learn the matchup" is fine and all but it is much harder to learn a matchup which requires you to fight RNGesus first. There are logistics related to simply getting customs onto everyone's systems and I don't think it's fair to call players lazy for wanting to play the damn game instead of boring themselves to tears for a while just to reach the entry barrier.
When dlc was first announced we all assumed that mewtwo would have customs. People even found his customs files on the 3ds. Now that we're 4 characters in and the dlc have no customs. It's safe to assume that they will not get customs.
Commented on this earlier, somewhere on pg. 9.
I believe it's a difference in perspective.
Smash input affects certain side special moves like Skull Bash, Green Missile, Burning Dropkick, and Monkey Flip. The first three listed special moves are very similar to each other while using smash input on the fourth one increases the horizontal distance traveled. Besides, smash input changing the properties of certain attacks isn't new. It can affect the damage of thrown items and the speed at which they travel.
Banning Dark Pit would be better than banning 2321 Wii Fit Trainer since there's fewer differences between Pit and Dark Pit than there are between 2321 and 1111 Wii Fit Trainer.
You mean all the top players who MAKE MONEY at tournaments agree customs are terrible?! Unbelievable! Seriously, be reasonable, of course the top players wouldn't want customs if it cut into their winnings. It's more to learn for them and they can't get around unlocking them now. For example, look at the melee diehards, many of them have stuck with melee instead of moving to smash 4 right? Name another fighting game where an earlier version is still used. You can't. Now in melee's case a large part of it is because it's more aggressive fast paced game and a different style, but that isn't the only reason. Do you think someone like Mango or PPMD who is already top of the bunch wants to sit down and learn a whole other meta with 50+ characters when they're already making money at nearly every tournament they go to? NO! Why would they? Now forgetting melee and moving back to smash 4, obviously the top players in smash 4 will be against customs because there are going to be more competitive characters in play meaning they'll need to focus on more MUs beforehand which will be additional work and not a guaranteed paycheck. This is fact. Top players should definitely be heard, but when it comes to any rulesets that can affect their money, the ones who win need to be left out. And to be fair, I don't think there's anything wrong with that mentality since the top players still did well overall. They adapted because they were the best.
Every single Wii Fit Trainer has the same normal attacks. The three clone characters have some differences in their normal attacks, although Dark Pit has only one. His strong side attack deals less knockback. However, he has a different final smash,and most of his special moves have slightly different properties from Pit's special moves.
There actually is irrefutably ignorance even at the top level. People like MVD, Seagull Joe, and Ally always hated customs yet clearly never played them enough to justify said opinion. They started with that opinion but never really proved it to themself or others.
and become more viable and, on the opposite side of the spectrum, characters like and get indirectly nerfed and become less viable. Customs off? Characters like and become more viable, and characters who rely on customs for viability like and become less viable. Do you see the problem yet? . It's not exactly fair either way, someone gets hurt, no matter which path we go, neither side has the moral upper ground. I'm against customs, for really just one reason, and it's a meager, pathetic if you will, reason. It's that I'm selfish, I want my main to be as viable as possible. I really wish all characters were just as viable as one another, but that isn't the case sadly, so, even though I feel sympathy for all the mains out there of characters who suffer without customs, I'll prefer to play without customs, merely to benefit myself by making sure my character doesn't become Hyrule tier yet again. I won't be outraged if customs became the standard, but I'd be a little upset, because it would mean that, once again, my character will end up near the very bottom, again, and as someone who played Brawl a lot as a "low tier", I really hate the sound of that. Sorry, but if stomping on other's viability is what it's going to take to remain at least somewhat viable, then so be it. If only every character was perfectly viable, this would never be such a problem in the first place.
To play devil's advocate these aren't really comparable. Clones are individual characters unto themselves. The exclusivity of customs is a real issue which is why I don't agree with the premise of picking and choosing which customs to ban.
Isn't it more like if in Melee everyone but Mewtwo, Roy, and Ness had "superior" custom moves?
No, I specifically chose top tier characters to illustrate the fact that many are behind this because of the circumstance that quite a few of the lower tier characters have good customs that bring them up. If it were higher tier characters that were heavily boosted, not as many people would be backing it.
Good comparison. The difference is that if lower tier characters tend to be the ones with superior customs, the general power of the cast moves upward, and the balance is made better.
Yep, that's one of the main pro-customs positives. The distinction I was originally making however is that it is the general power of a section of the cast moves upward, as all DLC remain without access to customs, and looks to proceed in that continued pattern for future releases.
She has to approach somehow. Her ranged moves (Autoreticle and Explosive Flame) are both easy to punish since they take a long time to do. She has no spammable projectiles. If she's in light weight, she's looking for a grab. I've never seen a Palutena player go for a time out, but I'd like to see someone try it. They won't win.
Stop. Top players are at the top for putting their life and soul into this game. They do not hate customs because it "poses a risk". Let's check out Top 32 at EVO and see how many top players we find carried by Customs!
Dark Pit only has 3 differences from Pit. His forward tilt has less knock back, his arrows are slower, do more damage, and have less control, and his Electroshock Arm sends opponents at a different angle than Pit's Upperdash Arm and they have more hitlag since it's an electric attack. 2321 Wii Fit Trainer also has 3 differences. Her Sun Salutation Shrinks instaed of growing, deals more damage, and doesn't heal her. Her Header now deals more knockback, goes at a different angle, and disappears faster. Jumbo Hoop has less vertical recovery, but more horizontal recovery, and it also has a larger hitbox. 2321 Wii Fit Trainer definitely has more (meaningful) differences than Pit and Dark Pit do (as Pit and Dark Pit have like different taunts, victory animations, final smash, ect. but none of those have an effect on gameplay).
However, the 2321 Wii Fit Trainer has exactly the same regular attacks, the same animations for winning and losing, the same taunts, and 2321 Wii Fit Trainer's moveset can be reverted to the default if you wanted to do that. Here are the reasons for why I believe that this argument shouldn't be used. The first reason is that the argument is trying to redefine the definition of a "character", so it is purely a semantic argument. The second reason is that if this argument is taken to its logical conclusion, then you're arguing that there are 4135 characters in the game, which is a ludicrous argument. It only needlessly complicates things.
Just because the top-tier characters have great default special moves doesn't mean that they're "playing customs". In fact, this argument doesn't even make sense at all. Besides, the high-tier characters' default special moves have greater chances of being balanced by patches than any of the problematic custom moves do.
A lot of the stuff I find obnoxious in customs is the same stuff I find obnoxious in non-customs. The things I don't like about this game are prevalent no matter what we do about customs, but I find that customs does make it more interesting and mitigate some of my issues.
What do you have to say regarding logistical issues? Imo, these should be addressed first and foremost before any subjective gameplay nonsense.
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