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Wavebouncing and You: Applications of Neutral B Wavebouncing

~Radiance~

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First I hate the title, someone give me a pun of some sort. I wanted something about new dog old tricks or something, but i'm at an impasse for a name lol.

So this isn't really a guide per-say, but more of a discussion on the application of Aura Sphere wavebouncing.

For those who do not know what wavebouncing is, its shifting your momentum while in the air by pressing the opposite direction you are facing immediately after pressing your special button. this can be done with any special move, but Aura Sphere is by far the most useful special for Lucario. Due to changes in smash 4 involving slightly more hit-stun and most importantly the changes to SDI which allow for multi-hit moves to be harder to escape, Lucario can make more practical use of his Aura Sphere Charge. Lucario's Aura Sphere is not as easy to DI out of as it was in brawl due to these changes. With proper use of certain setups and mind-games, it is possible to string stuff together and hit with the reverse side of Aura Sphere when wavebounced correctly.

If you are a TL;DR'er, here's what's going down: This guide is gonna show ways to use wavebouncing as Lucario, and you can implement them should you choose to.

DISCLAIMER: None of the following are guaranteed. These are by no means combos but rather are mixups that can be added into Lucario's arsenal should you choose to. With that, lets talk about its uses on the ledge

Ledge Wavebounce


In Brawl a common tactic for getting on the ledge was to air dodge onto the stage, but now with 40 frames of landing lag its much less of a viable option to get on stage. This tech has been around since brawl, and it really is about the same in terms of safety and viability. It guards your back, and since grab armor is now null it can be a good way to secure getting back onstage.

One note: it is rather important that you make sure not to wavebounce to high up on the stage as it can leave you vulnerable. Make sure to drop down a bit, then wavebounce on stage.





Wavebounce Mixups/Approaches

At a glance approaching with AS sounds awful, which is pretty true, but using it as a mixup to get in can work well. These mixups should be used sparingly. If used correctly they can throw the opponent off as they will not know when a wavebounce is coming, but its very easy to tell when you are trying to do it if used improperly. Be Creative!

Empty SH Fakeout



This mixup is a good mind-game. From an empty SH you can instead FF and run in and grab, or simply jump away. This mixup is probably the easiest to work with and the input isn't too tricky. If your opponent sits in shield the entire time you are SH'ing remember that the AS damage will beat out grabs, so if they are trying to bait for a shield grab you can use this mixup to counter that.

SH Fair to wavebounce



After doing a Fair and DI'ing back you can use this method. In my experience this is best to do as part of a scenario. If you Fair your opponent and it connects follow up with fair strings or any other mix up, but if they shield the fair DI back and wavebounce in. It will most likely eat through their shield at this point, and if nothing else the only option they have is to roll away leaving you in a good position the entire exchange. they only issue would be if you fair their shield and they respond by doing an aerial OoS.

FH Fair to FF Wavebounce



The execution on this one is slightly harder as you need to FF, DI back, and Wavebounce all in a short time frame. It is however a good mixup that can throw your opponents off. This one I took from a set I watched Junebug play in. Pro's are its relatively safe, you can choose to back out after the initial Fair if you don't feel like its an option you want to pursue.


There are naturally more setups for this technique, but from a neutral game these seem to be the most reliable and consistent ways I have found to get in. With that being said, lets move on to the fun stuff.




Strings and Mixups with Wavebouncing


Please remember that none of these are guaranteed. Your opponent can jump out of most of these options, so it is up to you to decide how to follow up. if you read a jump you can always shield during the Aura charge and FH/DJ Bair for a punish. See what they do and punish accordingly.

AS Charge to Shield Drop Grab



This is probably my favorite mixup. If you shield relatively fast after you hit with the charge you can usually drop shield and buffer a turn around grab. while they can jump away this can be a good initial mixup if your opponent is trying to aggro through the sphere or simply has slow reaction time.

AS Charge to Dair 1 and 2



This is another good mixup. because Dair comes out fast and you can do it OoS it is a fairly safe option and can usually punish those who have decent reaction time when the grab mixup wont work. Dair is dependent on how close you are to them however, and it may miss. Thankfully it has low cooldown so you can typically roll or run away if it whiffs, or you can choose to stay on the offensive.

AS Charge to Dair 1 Mixups

Dair to Grab



Dair to FP Grab



There are technically many mixups that can come from this if only Dair 1 hits. MythTrainerInfinity mentioned that if your opponent tries to buffer a shield and they are too far up it can cause them to air dodge into the ground, meaning a Dsmash could follow up.

For the two Gif's above its really a matter of preference. Side B can kill early and typically Dair 1 only pops up at higher percents and on lighter characters. If your opponent spot dodges the grab part they can be hit by the aura blast as well, which is also nice. Grab is a great mixup with Dair 1 as well due to the combos that can come off of Uthrows. Choose whatever you like, and don't feel that only these 2 options can come out of a Dair 1 follow up. You can also keep dashing and doing Dair 1 over and over.

AS Charge to Drop Shield Utilt



this mix up is nice. it can cover air dodges and if your opponent jumps out it has low enough lag that It is safe to throw out. The only issue is that with having to drop shield its a lot like grab in that people may get out of it often even though Utilt comes out fast. At low percents it can lead into some nice strings such as this:



Keep in mind again that strings like this aren't guaranteed, it's merely a postulation into follow ups.


ONE FINAL CHEESY FOLLOW UP

If your opponent is offstage AS Charge is really silly and can edge-guard some characters well. If your opponent tries to DI above you there is the possibility you could get a really cheese kill by canceling the charge and performing Usmash OoS.






This technique has many possible uses. Many are just for flash and show, but have possible applications in the meta if used in various ways. This guide is in no way meant to make the statement that this mix up should be used and that it is good, It is merely more tech that Lucario can use and in my opinion adds to the overall fun technical level of Lucario. Try some of these out and see what happens if you like, you never know what may come of it

Good? Bad? Useless? Exasperating to read? Let me know your opinions and if anything seems off or if there is anything you feel I missed. I tried to use as many of the different AS setups as I could in the follow up Gif's to show what it would look like. Happy Aura Doge'ing!




 
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Loota

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Good thread. The buffs to AS charge made our wavebouncing game extremely powerful and scary so any discussion of it will be valuable.

One followup for AS charge I like to use is to simply jump out of the charge leaving the opponent usually shielding on the ground scared, and then proceeding in grabbing them with a landing FP. It's suprising how often people just put up their shield out of habit after getting out of the charge and hanging in it just a few too many frames for their own well-being.

AS charge to upsmash is anything but plain cheesy, I've gotten ridiculous amounts of kills with it that it's not even funny. Yes, it isn't 100% guaranteed but it is still extremely hard to predict and react to if the AS charge is cancelled immediately after landing a hit. I'd even say it's easily one of our best kill setups as the ways to land the charge are endless and thus giving room to be really creative and unpredictable while not really committing into anything. I feel genuinely evil when I catch opponents in it without their midair jump, grill them for a second or two and finish them of with the upsmash without them being able to do much anything.

Another thing I've started to implement in my game is perfect pivot AS charge. Lucario starts charging the move already while sliding so the hitbox comes out suprisingly fast and you can slide deep into your opponents character frame trapping them for a longer time if they're close enough. The distance of our slide (and our % dependency of course) is the only problem holding this back as it's usually easier to go for a grab for potentially more followups and sideB for a kill. At least it's still an option to consider if you're confident enough in your perfect pivoting.

Oh wait, the last paragraph wasn't even related to the topic. Oh wellll
 

ReRaze

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This is actually an amazing thread, nice work!,
Just some questions
what controls did you use to do this? Is a c-stick necessary? If so does it need to be set to specials or can it be anything?
Is it fairly easy to do this with 3ds controls?
When you let go of the ledge do you push left/right or down?
 
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Konrad-QD

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This is actually an amazing thread, nice work!,
Just some questions
what controls did you use to do this? Is a c-stick necessary? If so does it need to be set to specials or can it be anything?
Is it fairly easy to do this with 3ds controls?
When you let go of the ledge do you push left/right or down?
This can be done with any controls really
 

~Radiance~

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sorry for the late reply, yea it can be done with standard controls. i like setting R to special since it feels better imo to use it to wavebounce
 

Darky-Sama

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It should also be noted that you can cancel the wavebounce with a throw upon landing too. So if you happen to misplace your landing or the opponent happens to move (or you're being tricky and wanted to mindgame to get a throw), you can always throw cancel the charge to punish efficently. This is also good if your percentage is high enough that your Aura Sphere hitbox is large enough to "poke" near max charge. To make use of it, just stop charging the Aura Sphere before max charge and then apply it with a wave bounce. If the opponent rolls infront of you to avoid the Aura Sphere charge, you get a free grab.
 

fatalfoxy

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First I hate the title, someone give me a pun of some sort. I wanted something about new dog old tricks or something, but i'm at an impasse for a name lol.

I know this thread hasn't been replied to for a while, but I'm a sucker for puns/silly stuff.
Jackal Hopping
I can sense your bruises
This is already banned
My spheres contains your tears
You're never too old to wavebounce
I don't think Junebug will ever do this
Nothing ventured, nothing mained
idk that's all I got
 
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Elixar

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I can't wavebounce like this. I can do it in the other direction but I can't seem to figure out the input timing for this kind of wavebounce. I keep forcepalming in the wrong direction.
 

Typhlosion09

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I can't wavebounce like this. I can do it in the other direction but I can't seem to figure out the input timing for this kind of wavebounce. I keep forcepalming in the wrong direction.
Practice, practice, practice. Put in the time and you will do it just fine.
 

~Radiance~

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Elixer: if you are FP'ing in the opposite direction it means you held the direction too quickly before pressing b, or you pressed b after you were already holding that direction. try pressing b then right after hold the direction.

also glad it was useful TK!. I see you are in sunnyvale which is close to me and my smash crew. hit me up if youd ever like to play :3
 

TK Wolf

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also glad it was useful TK!. I see you are in sunnyvale which is close to me and my smash crew. hit me up if youd ever like to play :3
Oops, I'm actually in San Mateo now, not Sunnyvale, dunno if that makes things easier or harder. :)
I'm a highly interested casual at this point, haven't been to any real tournies, but really wanna get better!
 

~Radiance~

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you are very close to the foundry in SF, would be a great place to check out as theres a tourney there every thursday. if youd like to go to more tournies in cali and get the exp hit me up
 

Mintcario

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Some of this stuff was really useful, thanks. :]
I just wish I could be more consistent with followups out of AC over wifi; lag makes it more difficult. Offline though I don't really have any problems...
 

Nysyr

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So, been trying to practice wavebounce and I had a few problems. Sometimes I would reverse successfully, but my momentum wouldn't reverse. Is there a window in which you will turn around but not reverse momentum?
 

~Radiance~

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yes, if that happens it means you are inputing the direction after the b press, which is what a b reversal is. if you want a wavebounce to carry your momentum you want to press b then press the stick.
 
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nahgato

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how do go from AS charge into an D-air?
 
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FullPowah

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Does anyone know how to cancel the charging aura sphere into an immediate up smash? Like so quick that you can't even see the shield come up? Some high level lucario players can do this such as Loota and SunnySunny ill link a video to it.
 

Empire~

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That is called a jump-cancelled upsmash. This is a process whereby you shield, then jump but cancel the jump with an upsmash. By "jumping" out of shield, you are able to up smash faster than if you had waited for shield to drop on its own. The inputs are:

hold shield
hold directional stick up
jump
attack

The attack after jump has to be input very quickly after jump.
 

~Radiance~

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the above method described for non tap jump users.
tap jump users only need to hold up after shielding and press A (essentially take out the jump command with x/y and use tap jump in it's place)

thanks for answering that btw :3
 

Moondowner

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Great thread, I just wish I get the timing down more on this. :/ It sucks learning.
 
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