Official Viability Ratings v2 | Competitive Impressions

[Ikes]

sure sheik has to fair you more, but she has the means to do so anyways

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

Nah, Sheik fair damage nerf is really huge. Look at it from this perspective. Fair was and still is by far the best move Sheik has, and Sheik will continue to get a very large amount of her overall damage from hitting with that move. That basically means Sheik plays the exact same way as before but just takes longer to win. Thus, if you are using a character who is reasonably good and could beat Sheik in the first place, your winning odds improve since you win at the same rate as before while she wins slower. I think the fair landing lag thing will probably matter some (Sheik's fair was possible to make safe even without the AC; that may not be true anymore which limits her fair pressure timing options at least slightly), but the damage thing I think will show itself to be a really big deal. I'm doubting it will remove Sheik from her perch as #1 in the game, but it very likely will change the situation of her needing to be in a tier by herself.

The damage nerf doesn't really matter as much as you would think when Sheik can just swat away at you over and over again. Also when you are at higher percents, the sheik is suppose to finish your stock with a kill-setup anyways or edge-guard. Also the slightly increased landing lag is like whatever since fair still auto-cancels really early, like you only experience the lag if you use the move at like the last possible minute (When I was playing I did't even notice the landing lag at all LOL unless for some reason I used the move when I'm super close to the ground; so I was wondering why their were comments about her Fair having more end lang because I never experience the end-lag), it still spaces just as well due to the auto-cancel window being glorious.

The reason why people say she's in a Tier of her own (S) is because o the fact she dictates where the point of interaction takes place while also beating the entire cast in neutral while also at higher percents being able to use needles to pop-people up. Mind you the needles part is extremely one of the reasons why she's in a tier of her own and make certain characters just bad against her. What makes needle so strong is that at high percents where both Sheik and her opponent are over 100% she can just apply safe pressure against you all the time while you are forced to approach while also getting popped up while attempting to land the killing blow. Add this to the fact she has an amazing keep-away/neutral/defensive game and you have a very strong character in your hands at high/top level granted you use Sheik right. They never attempted to patch her "problems" while slightly nerfing fair yet again. Literally Sheik has been one of the most altered character thus far and she's still considered to be the best character in the game.. I wonder why...

is also a character that HEAVILY reward you for being skillful then other characters; (Why do you think ZeRo just decimates everyone with sheik / many sheiks placing in top 32 at Nationals? and then you see other sheik's sometimes getting bodied, she's not a character you can just play and expect to win at high level/top level of play.) Examples? Mr.R vs ZeRo, Mr.R vs Leo, Mr.R vs Nairo (Winner bracket of CEO), requires for you to always maintain good play, and fails as a character when you are sloppy (due to the fact you can't just use a move and expect it to kill unlike *cough* *cough* Mario/Luigi). But that's not all that make so good. It's her MU spread. Their are quite a decent amount of MU where you are heavily likely to win if you know what you doing. So combine this + the Massive reward she grants to Skilled players and you have a character that is far different from the rest of the cast. Just because she's Number 1 / in S tier doesn't mean it's a auto-win for you; unless you are faced with a ,etc.. and even you might still lose...

 

[Balgorxz]

miis can be played online in tournament mode, with their own movesetscan.
is forced 1-1-1-1 dead now?

 

[Routa]

miis can be played online in tournament mode, with their own movesetscan.
is forced 1-1-1-1 dead now?

Yup and lets not try to resurrect it.

 

[Antonykun]

speaking of miis

 

[Routa]

speaking of miis

Mii Fighters: "We top tier now."

 

[Yikarur]

Yup and lets not try to resurrect it.

I love you Sakurai.

 

[Balgorxz]

also I'm pretty sure nintendo is going to use custom glory/for glory tournaments for patches now so we have a viable way to make them patch them (winning with custom villager camp with healing lmao)

 

[S_B]

His hurtbox is massive--it extends well behind even his tail--and that turns the ledge game into almost certain death.

M2 is just kind of a mess of a character: he's tall as hell so everything hits him, and his hurtboxes do incredibly stupid things like extend above the stage on his double jump.

I once actually hit his tail as he was UNDER the stage and double jumping because his tail was poking through. He belongs very low on the list just because of all the dumb things this game does to him...

This always happens, Abadango shows up at our big tournaments, makes a big splash, everyone thinks he's great for about a week, then everyone forgets about him again.

I don't forget. I'm still waving the Abadango fan flag even when there are no tournies happening.

He just brings so much passion to the game and pushes characters people believe aren't very good so much further than anyone I've seen at the national level...

 

[Emblem Lord]

Oh so Marth was sort of like heavily buffed and stuff.

His Nair damage now makes sense and it kind of is literally the strongest Nair in the game.

He happens to lag less on landing on his Fair, Bair, Uair, and Dair.

Shield Breaker and Utilt (again) also lag less.

All of this stuff is confirmed I'm just spreading the word.

Bruh. Shut up.

Keep quiet about Fire Emblem buffs. We need people to think they suck so they keep getting more.

Robin mains please chill. jesus christ.

 

[TriTails]

Luigi's Fireballs end lag was increased. FAF 41 > 44. Can no longer jab lock more than one Fireball.

FJP now kills 10% earlier. Also has bigger sweetspot.

D-tilt now trips much more often and now sends in a semispike angle, improving edgeguards. Decreased end lag also.

F-air deals less damage, while this means less hitstun, you can combo longer with it, and followups are easier.

Luvin' this stuffs (Except for the Fireball nerf).

Perhaps his shaky placements at Apex/CEO/EVO might've impacted this a bit.

 

[LiteralGrill]

speaking of miis

Bruh, you don't show the one where it infinites into a kill bruh.

According to the guy who made these videos he tried to test this with DI and sheilding too. So take that for what you will.

 

[Luco]

Teehehehehe, Ness got a Dair buff. It's still useless, but it's novel. We were testing Bthrow and got scared when we found we were killing Shield Shulk a lot later, then we realised it was Shield shulk who got a buff.

Also Sonic got Fsmash nerf, Fox got jab lock nerfs (it might be a +1 now when before it was prolly closer to even) and Sheik has her nerfs, so we're sitting very happily this patch.

Lucas' buffs were neat, but I think he'll need a little more to see success in the right places.

 

[Kofu]

His Nair damage now makes sense and it kind of is literally the strongest Nair in the game.

Are you saying in damage or knockback? Because it's beaten in damage by several NAirs.

 

[adom4]

Ganon's D-smash is a nuke now, seriously it's almost as strong as his F-smash.

 

[NachoOfCheese]

DK's Fsmash and Usmash have bigger hitboxes now, Dash attack has more active frames... nothing too special.

...y'know other than an 80% kill confirm off a grab. Cargo up toss -> 10 wind punch works at death percents. We're Diddy Kong now.
EDIT: found a video. I lied, this works at 55%
http://youtu.be/z2LzgAQ30Yk

 

[Smog Frog]

ummm...you do realize you cant store a 10 wind punch? if its not fully charged then you lose a charge, so to speak. or can you actually charge the 10 wind punch after the cargo up toss?

 

[Emblem Lord]

Are you saying in damage or knockback? Because it's beaten in damage by several NAirs.

definitely knockback. Killin CF at like 125 no rage.

 

[TriTails]

definitely knockback. Killin CF at like 125 no rage.

Tipper or not?

 

[Emblem Lord]

Always...just the tip.

 

[TriTails]

Always...just the tip.

So it has to be tippered? Sounds boring .

Kidding. Was it increased in actual KB tho? Or was it simply because of raw damage increase?

 

[Kofu]

definitely knockback. Killin CF at like 125 no rage.

I can get behind that then. Kind of scary though.

 

[NachoOfCheese]

ummm...you do realize you cant store a 10 wind punch? if its not fully charged then you lose a charge, so to speak. or can you actually charge the 10 wind punch after the cargo up toss?

You can store a 10 wind. If you couldn't I'm not sure why it would work
EDIT: read your post wrong. Fact is it doesn't matter if it's 10 or 9. At the end of the day, it kills. If the opponent DIs you can b reverse it too.

 

[Smog Frog]

what i mean is, if you wind 10 times, you get a stage 9 punch. was that changed, too?

 

[NachoOfCheese]

what i mean is, if you wind 10 times, you get a stage 9 punch. was that changed, too?

Yeah my bad. 9 wind still KOs tho.

 

[TriTails]

You know. I just tested him for like 10 minutes, but I think Luigi is less braindead now.

Fireballs having more lag means they can no longer guarantee a grab (Not like they can before), meaning Luigi has to be smart on his reads if he want a D-throw. F-air having less hitstun probably made it easier to break out from.

On the other hand, he got stronger punish in his stronger FJP, D-tilt trip to FJP or grab if they don't act quickly, and F-air being able to followed up easier... I think they made justifiable changes to Luigi.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Rewarding intelligent gameplay is ALWAYS the way to go.

 

[TTTTTsd]

So Doc got an amazing buff this patch that no one is gonna talk about, but Imma do it. USmash is active for 1 more frame and when Doc hits you (assuming your stage position is ideal) you die 20-30% earlier than if Mario did (assuming no DI for either Mario or Doc).

The real fun with his USmash is the additional 1 frame, however. This 1 frame extends the hitbox to all the way in front of him with USmash, going low enough as to hit a CROUCHING G&W if he's close. This means Doc throws a fully intangible hitbox entirely around his body that can kill better than Mario's thanks to its staggering KBG buff from like 106 to 117.

I mean it doesn't make him not low tier but it's a very noticeable improvement that gives him an incredibly reliable kill option OoS that will hit anywhere around him. (I still play him as a secondary/in friendlies because I love the character so this buff is pretty good for meee)

 

[thehard]

Another really good patch.

The friendliness towards Sheik and Luigi (he's more interesting now which is good) is a bit strange but many characters now rack damage faster and have easier and earlier kill setups so I'm not complaining. And then you have more across-the-board landing lag reductions. (The whole "game is faster" placebo is not entirely untrue as of late!)

As if the last couple of balance patches weren't enough, maybe this will finally silence the "less nerfz more buffz" collective?

Looking forward to more Robin/Lucina/Zelda Nairo.

 

[outfoxd]

Apparently duck hunt has bigger fsmash hitboxes. We get really conservative buffs but ill take it. At a tournament last night i watched a fellow player blow three separate fsmash punishes on a jigglypuff because of the slide out effect.

Please let that be gone.

 

[TriTails]

So.

Can people stop saying Luigi is braindead now!???? I'm 90% sure I can no longer chain a grab from a Fireball.

 

[Antonykun]

Bruh, you don't show the one where it infinites into a kill bruh.

According to the guy who made these videos he tried to test this with DI and sheilding too. So take that for what you will.

I was going to post that but my mom took me away from keyboard

 

[Vipermoon]

Are you saying in damage or knockback? Because it's beaten in damage by several NAirs.

I said strongest so knockback. It's not even close. By far this is the strongest Nair in the game all because damage went from 8 to 9 on the second hit.

 

[Antonykun]

Robin is probably the biggest winner of this patch.

Getting a Hoo-Hah at 85%-105% depending on the character is crazy enough with that obscene Uair, but Arcthunder getting less cooldown means he has a reliable means to get that grab that doesn't lose to shield. Getting no changes in his autocanceling, disjointed aerial game is icing.

They gave Robin exactly what he needed without changing his mobility one bit. Fire Emblem Tier is eradicated completely now.

Fire emblem tier is mid to high mid tier now even if you add chrom or the black knight (Swordfighter)

 

[NachoOfCheese]

So Doc got an amazing buff this patch that no one is gonna talk about, but Imma do it. USmash is active for 1 more frame and when Doc hits you (assuming your stage position is ideal) you die 20-30% earlier than if Mario did (assuming no DI for either Mario or Doc).

The real fun with his USmash is the additional 1 frame, however. This 1 frame extends the hitbox to all the way in front of him with USmash, going low enough as to hit a CROUCHING G&W if he's close. This means Doc throws a fully intangible hitbox entirely around his body that can kill better than Mario's thanks to its staggering KBG buff from like 106 to 117.

I mean it doesn't make him not low tier but it's a very noticeable improvement that gives him an incredibly reliable kill option OoS that will hit anywhere around him. (I still play him as a secondary/in friendlies because I love the character so this buff is pretty good for meee)

This is actually a pretty big deal. Doc now has among the best OoS options in the game, along with Ness, Bowser, and Charizard.
Question: is his Bair safe on block? Because I find that move unusually hard to punish when the opponent spaces it right.

 

[TriTails]

This is actually a pretty big deal. Doc now has among the best OoS options in the game, along with Ness, Bowser, and Charizard.
Question: is his Bair safe on block? Because I find that move unusually hard to punish when the opponent spaces it right.

Since he has similiar B-airs with Luigi, having less end lag and more airspeed... then yes, his is most likely safe on block. Luigi's safe too. When spaced at least.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Yes I believe Doc Bair is safe on block when spaced right.

Yeah USmash OoS combined with Up+B OoS is MAJOR for Doc. This ****'s legit scary now, he has a 100% (AGAINST MARIO, NO RAGE AT EDGE OF STAGE) kill option OoS with head intangibility on top of his Frame 3 kill move at higher percents. Woooooo!

Maybe I'll pick this character back up for realsies, seems like the new USmash adds an entire layer of options to his shield, punish....everything.

 

[Balgorxz]

so why is everyone crying about tournament mode?
so far I'm in two 1v1 competitive tournamentsa one with customs on(miis on) and customs off (miis on), 2 stock 8 minutes competitive stages only, no problems.
if there are 3 players on the lobby one instantly leaves

 

[thehard]

If I'm not mistaken shieldstun and push is tied to damage, yes? Is Ganon's f-air now safer on shield?

 

[TriTails]

If I'm not mistaken shieldstun and push is tied to damage, yes? Is Ganon's f-air now safer on shield?

It should be. I wouldn't guarantee it is SAFE on shield tho...