VaNz Stuff.. about Peach (Tactical Discussion)

[ShroudedOne]

Thanks Atma and Ryobeat. I shall absorb that information. I usually approach her anyways, but do buffer DI away. I figure I just need a better understanding of her at this point.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Good DI vs Sheik's combo starters (and linkers), managing your combo break options appropriately (this is one most Peaches are really bad at), and the ability to death combo (requires timing skills & some long term planning) are the main things that determine whether Sheik is dealing in a 6-4 advantage (whatever that means) versus a 7-3 advantage. Also don't dash attack her shield and shield pressure is nerfed vs Sheik's big bubble so focus on winning exchanges when Sheik is attacking you or be Armada (VaNz back in the day also works). Whichever.

Thing about Peach is that she's too slow to just move away after doing something with a traditional ground movement (in a lot of cases - though perfect WDs [both length and timing] can help this somewhat). This means she has a dependency on jumping, shielding, or attacking to follow her action and either protect herself or engage the opponent. This is normally okay, but it's less okay vs Sheik than other characters. This is because Sheik's entire moveset can anti-air because of her crazy range, she's great at attack vs. attack (or whatever else Sheik is doing in that instance) interactions because of speed / shield / ground game / evasive SH into ridiculous aerials, and Peach shielding is grabbable vs a character who does all her stuff with throw (although good OOS can, as usual, mitigate this somewhat). All of the options in Peach's option tree after her opening (which is usually some kind of float fair or whatever) can be countered by Sheik solidly and consistently. Or Sheik can turn into positional advantage if she's smart, since being in the air is dangerous vs Sheik and the little risk-reward games with airborne Peach (or whatever) vs Sheik tend to favour Sheik by a bit. A bit, because death combos hurt.

This is a bit of a simplification but this is basically why I think Sheik will win the MU until TAS Melee is the standard for tournament players (Peach has a higher skill ceiling IMO). Alternatively, using dark magic Peach finds a way to make Sheik's d-throw suck (which actually exists: move to Europe) and then shield doesn't have a real counter anymore and crouch becomes even more god tier than it already was.

edit:

Sheik's needles shutting down turnips unless Peach basically hits Sheik or Sheik decides to play ultra passively (ledgestall, platform camp, etc) is also a big deal, since - when you have one - they're not a bad way to stop Sheik and freeze her in place. Once she's not moving, it's a lot harder to push her to the edge (which is dangerous for Sheik or just counterattack her for a panic move / bait another type of response from Sheik). As a side note, I think this might be part of how Armada lands d-tilts but I think he's got a lot more going on there too. Anywho, getting off topic. Turnips are normally pretty darn useful vs characters who occupy a certain height during various parts of their movement. And they're even more useful if said character has more range or is faster because it gives Peach a distraction to assist her (and zone them out of that section of stage). But Sheik can shoot her to stop the pull and because her ground game / shield is really good vs Peach, she doesn't have to worry about doing certain evasive commitments that Marth, Falcon, and various other characters do that grant Peach free veggies. Because Sheik is a cruel one.

 

[Ryobeat]

My main problem is that i know a good amount and forget to apply it and kirbykaze you made it sound so painful, though it is. I wanna play some friendlies at apex. Your in my bracket anyhow.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I don't mean to make it sound hopeless... I could go over Peach's things and make her sound somewhat decent vs Sheik. Since, with good DI and proper combo break choice / management you probably take less damage on a lot of the stray hits than Sheik does (barring throw and combo starters you can't really DI for whatever reason). You also have the better death combo off d-tilt or bad DIed dash attack IMO.

 

[baka4moé]

Any pointers on how to connect with d-tilt vs sheik? I'm having trouble figuring it out and just have been throwing it occasionally, sometimes with a CC but to no avail. I see armada use it very well and don't know how to use it correctly.

 

[DoH]

wd back and dtilt

 

[EPsilon933]

Marth is Peach's worst fear. I'm telling all of you

 

[ShroudedOne]

Peepee knows how to uthrow. No other Marth does.

 

[Prince_Abu]

congrats u all play a broken *** character GJ

 

[ShroudedOne]

Why are you so bad at trolling now?

Be less obvious.

 

[EPsilon933]

Broken characters are the best. You can actually do things

 

[Wake]

Any top tier is broken in the grand scheme of this game lol. I quite enjoy doing things.

 

[knightpraetor]

peach for top tier^_^

 

[MacD]

who knows if m2k has done this yet, but once he decides to learn sheik vs peach it's GG

 

[EPsilon933]

who knows if m2k has done this yet, but once he decides to learn sheik vs peach it's GG

He has specific stage/character combinations vs Peach. I can't remember all of the comboes, but he never went Marth against me when we played a half hour of friendlies 1 time

 

[MacD]

we played a half hour of friendlies 1 time, he only went marth

we played a half hour of friendlies 1 time, he only went sheik

we played a half hour of friendlies 1 time, he only went fox

 

[KirbyKaze]

congrats u all play a broken *** character GJ

Only Armada makes the character remotely close to broken. And by, "Broken", I mean, "On equal footing with the other top tiers." So as good as the average tournament character.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Did AR alter your opinion of Peach/Sheik any?

 

[Ryobeat]

So with all these new and exciting Peach player hype, is anyone up to redo-ing this thread? With new information and quotes throughout this thread, and then make a new, more organized one?

 

[KirbyKaze]

Ryobeat I think Zelda counters Peach harder than Sheik does on FOD

 

[Ryobeat]

Ryobeat I think Zelda counters Peach harder than Sheik does on FOD

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU. you suck D: That match I was like "HEY! I'm keeping up! 2 stocks-2stocks, I'm making some reads." THEN YOU GO ZELDA AND WIN . boo. I should have cheesed you harder

 

[KirbyKaze]

There are only so many tech error > FOD platform + d-smash combination attack cheese plays that you will get vs me


edit:

To your credit, you actually feel like you're trying not to be hit when I played you. Most players (regardless of character) feel like they're trying to hit you more than they're trying to not get hit or put into bad situations, but with floaties it's generally more important to prioritize defense and safety because of how they are built. You actually succeed somewhat in this respect so kudos. Keep developing and maybe you'll be the next up & coming Peach ^_^

 

[Ryobeat]

There are only so many tech error > FOD platform + d-smash combination attack cheese plays that you will get vs me


edit:

Words of inspirations blahblahblah #ryo2013^_^

Its gets cheesy when I vs you in pokeball matches, i barely lose

And thank you n_n I was getting really pumped(because I really like 3/4 stocked, it makes me look harder at how I'm losing these stocks) So I played really well, but at my level that isnt noticeably enough. One of the main things I'm realizing is the differences in punishment games. I punish poorly and get like , 30% and they aren't in a bad position. I;m only efficient in punishing Fox. I'll get the hang of this, and I guarantee I will be a top peach

 

[Eval]

Ryobeat I think Zelda counters Peach harder than Sheik does on FOD

Yeah Zelda is an annoying match up for Peach. I remember I used Zelda once in a tournament against a Peach and I won. Mirror Match sucks!

Anyway Zelda still loses if you keep her in a Box and don't let her do anything. She can even be camped.

 

[DoH]

Peach dittos are the best matchup

What are these lies eval?

 

[MacD]

someone bout to get slapped for hatting on peach dittos

also i saw parts of benn grim vs paju..... good god i wanted to shoot myself

 

[Nintendude]

Peach dittos are a surprisingly fun matchup to play.

 

[Silly Kyle]

Peach dittos are fun until M2K embarrasses you with his Peach :x

 

[Paju]

What's wrong with all of you, Peach dittos are horrible :/

@MacD You weren't the only one who wanted to shoot himself... And the worst part was I had to face him again in bracket pools and then in the actual bracket I had Vanz in WB1 and IrishMafia in LB1. *Sigh*

But shoutouts to all of you Peaches I played during the Apex. Really enjoyed meeting all of you, even though I didn't really enjoy the ditto matches lol. I really had a blast in Apex and hope I can come back to the US in future.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

What's wrong with all of you, Peach dittos are horrible :/

@MacD You weren't the only one who wanted to shoot himself... And the worst part was I had to face him again in bracket pools and then in the actual bracket I had Vanz in WB1 and IrishMafia in LB1. *Sigh*

But shoutouts to all of you Peaches I played during the Apex. Really enjoyed meeting all of you, even though I didn't really enjoy the ditto matches lol. I really had a blast in Apex and hope I can come back to the US in future.

I am 100% with paju here, peach dittos are horrible horrible things.

On the other hand meeting you paju was real cool

 

[crush]

Paju is my n!gga

 

[Strong Badam]

I didn't get to meet Paju :[

 

[Wake]

I don't get how you can hate Peach dittos lol. What exactly are you guys doing?

 

[DoH]

Losing, obviously.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Peach mains who hate the ditto...I am beyond disappointed.

 

[Cia]

Peach mains who hate the ditto...I am beyond disappointed.

pretty much this.

and lol @ zelda beating peach.

you guys make me hate my own thread

D:

 

[john!]

peach dittos make me want to strangle puppies

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I've loved peach dittos since quaz broke out his AR and we played bob-ombs only :D

 

[MacD]

well those 2 camped each other

if i had to play dittos with basically only down B i'd hate them too

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

U know thats the right way, the boring way but the right way