Undertale Mafia, 13 man! Game over! Town wins!

[#HBC | Kary]

Vote: KingofKoopas

choo choo

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Are we reading the same J this game? To the bolded, he has consistently withheld opinions and responses to various questions stating things along the lines of "I don't feel comfortable answering this right now" or "I'll explain later" or sometimes just not even giving an excuse at all.

100% this. J is shady as **** right now.

 

[#HBC | J]

That's not what she was saying at all Kary the Scummy haha.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Play the game, J. You're keeping things to yourself for what reason exactly?

 

[ranmaru]

Hey everyone. I'll be reading up.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Another point of interest is that Rake/Gheb are the only two voting Koopy and I dislike that as much as Kary/Joey on Soup.

What.

Like, what are even you talking about? What's wrong with Joey and Kary being on soup? What is wrong with specifically them two being on soup? Is Kantrip / Ryu being on them OK? What's wrong with people voting Koops? That post sucks on so many levels tbh.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Should've replaced the man though ...

But
I can literally flip everything you claimed about me back onto you. You haven't done much either, your pushes on Adam and I would be "easy lynches", and you did the same exact thing as I did when I said "I won't go into my town/null reads unless anyone wants me to" in the last two sentences.

"No u" ... is not a legitimate response.

I would rather lynch someone scummy who was active enough to give their insight on the game rather than someone who was scummy and only made two posts.

... because?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Why are people voting Koopa again?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Because people want him lynched, perhaps?

 

[ranmaru]

Mod request deadline extension

Need some time to finish my catch up.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Yeah this Day 1 is a joke. People just aren't being active enough for us to actually get things done.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Vote: Rake

I don't like this but we gotta lynch somebody. His reaction to pressure was weird and he's not been back so *shrug*

I would rather get rid of a garbage/inactive slot but what can you do.

Ok i'm out g'night.

 

[BarDulL]

@tHe-Man @#HBC | Ryker @#HBC | ZoZo have been prodded. If I have to prod them again I will force replace them, or modkill depending on the circumstances.

Mod request deadline extension

Need some time to finish my catch up.

The problem I have with a deadline extension is that I am not sure if the roster is ok with prolonging D1 for another day.

If the thread consensus is that most of the roster would be ok with a deadline extension, I will push the day forward another 24 hours. Otherwise, I must decline this request.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

That's L-2 afaik btw

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Request Deadline Extension

 

[ranmaru]

Please people. Give me a day. That is all I need.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

I'm fine with an extension of 24 hours or whatever. Kary's right. People just aren't being active enough for all that has happened toDay

 

[Spak]

Request deadline extension

Sorry about leaving for so long. I'm sick and had an unexpected 4-hour nap. If it gets down to deadline and have to hammer Rake, I will; I really don't want to kill off Ran if he's willing to read up and participate.

Are we reading the same J this game? To the bolded, he has consistently withheld opinions and responses to various questions stating things along the lines of "I don't feel comfortable answering this right now" or "I'll explain later" or sometimes just not even giving an excuse at all.

I looked back at J's posts and only saw two occurances of that happening (post #146 (where he said he would respond after Sang, and kept his word) and the instance J was talking about about in #443). Based on that information agree that this statement is a bit exaggerated.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Also, Shun Goku Satsu Rake what are your reads in general?

Spak town,.you town lean, kantrip town lean, scum.is still king of koopa ; ryker. Leanne scum on dietz for his attitude toward my slot. This is as of here. Doing a semi catch up then I'm out

 

[Spak]

Request deadline extension

(Sorry, forgot the bold).

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Spak, in terms of my Rake vote, I did somewhat explain before my initial vote. I wanted more pressure on him. I still don't necessarily see Rake as town (his reactions leave a bad taste in my mouth, but that just might be him being genuinely upset... idk), but I wanted a second opinion on the wagon on him.

With only a day or so left, should we be focusing on Kary, then?

That post, regardless of whether or not I agree with his opinions, makes me get a really think I need to re-think my opinion of Spak.

Joey, where is your head at? Your recent posts have been inconsequential and very null in my mind. Where should we be looking for the end of the Day? You only want to be pushing Soup? Now that he has decided to replace out, does that change your opinion at all?

Of course I'm upset this wagon on me is literally comprised of people who have nothing better to do than wagon me

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Then what was the point of even bringing it up in the first place? I honestly see no intent behind this and if you're saying this then those posts just sound like a waste of time, which is something we don't need or even want at this point.



You listed a bunch of people. Do you think some lynches are more likely to get better reads from for the future? If so, which?



Okay, well, I'll go through and try to see if I can understand where you're coming from with this, at least in terms of koops. But, seriously, if you're trying to push you're not doing a very good job of it. I don't think anybody is convinced that koops might be scum and you're not really giving us reasons to believe he is beyond "he's done nothing townie". It seems so much like just a weak attempt at making it seem like you're doing something. You can't tell me that the majority of your scum reads are people that are MIA, and possibly based on meta. Can you please explain to me how lynching somebody that's inactive on D1 is better than lynching somebody that is here and actively acting scummy? Or is it just that you see no other people that are posting as scummy? Honestly, you're saying that these people have no presence but prior to a few people throwing suspicion at you you were in the same boat as them in my mind.

Tell me how I am actively scummy. Give me one thing I've dine except not go as hard on koopa as people apparently expect. Luke seriously. My entire wagon can be summed up as people voting me because it's the thing to do. Dietz is doing it. J is doing it and I can guarantee maybe you alone have stated a valid reason to vote me. Everyone else is just coasting on my wagon because they can't create their own ****ing content or find anything better to do than vote me because I'm "not pushing koopa" in a way they like. Yell me what I'm supposed to do differently. The entire premise is ********

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Then explain it, I see a vote and little to no elaboration after ample time was given to talk about why you're doing it.
The most you gave us was:




No one cares that you've aimed at Koopa.
We care because we think that's a ****ty one-vote read and you're not actually pursuing it or we'd already know why when you voted. You just stated that you do and acting like Koopa has something to respond to and everyone knows what you're talking about already. You voted him and then went right back to talking about how Kantrip was null. People asked you why, and you said "why not, also why is everyone looking at me weird".

Quote me a post where you ask someone why they like Koopa.

Quote me a post where you ask Koopa anything to further that read.

Quote me a post where you explain why Koopa is bad over literally any other null, and especially the wagons that are currently active so we know what you're on about.

The rhetorical middle quote above and #348 (which was well after people started questioning you) is the closest I've been able to find for any of those things.


We have no idea what you're doing. You're making a huge fuss about Koopa, seemingly at random, while claiming you don't understand why anyone could think otherwise yet still claiming Spak (a just as null slot) is town.


This is what you posted when someone said they don't see SpakTown (immediate interest and questioning), but when people ask you why we should lynch Koopa in particular all you say is "I don't see Town". It's a really bizarre double standard and it feels super forced. If this is a policy lynch I don't get why you're not saying so, and I extra don't get why you don't seem to have a reason to have picked him over any other wagons currently on the table, I assume you've discarded them entirely or you wouldn't be talking about Koopa as an actual lynch instead of just voting him for pressure. But you didn't ask anything of him when you voted, and have stated since that you do indeed want him to be the lynch, which implies highest scum priority to you.

The hell you don't understand why people are voting you.

I'm working on it bit the guy didn't exactly have content and wjat he did have was shot useless

 

[Kantrip]

Request D Extension

 

[Kantrip]

I love how J goes from being fine with soup or Rake lynch to convincing himself he's set on his Rake lynch and doesn't want to change it to soup in the span of one post.

And by that I mean I don't love it at all.

 

[Kantrip]

Joey and Kary are two slots I've actually liked this game, I'm not sure what problem J has with them.

#HBC | J - What's wrong with Joey and Kary?

 

[Spak]

Sooo... Is the deadline extension a thing or not?

 

[BarDulL]

I'll permit it since I haven't seen any objections.

*slams gavel*

Deadline has been extended by 24 hours. No more extensions may be allowed for this Day phase.

 

[Spak]

OK, an hour to the deadline. I feel like today is between Soup and Rake (unfortunately) and since Soup looks more townie and I want Ran to be able to catch up, I think this is the only option I have:

Vote: Rake

If deadline is extended to tomorrow, I'll remove my vote in the morning. I need to get sleep so I will feel better, so I can't stay up until deadline.

 

[Spak]

Lol ninja'd. ty Bard.

Unvote

 

[ranmaru]

Catch up with thoughts on various posts from the thread. Please look into it to see context and any questions I may direct towards you.

Spoiler: Catch Up

#213

I like Kantrip's analysis here, shows that he is thinking and re-evaluating things.

#217

I agree with this. Early game Rake asks weird questions such as 'are you scum'? Yet I find it null. Yet I do understand J's point of view too, as Rake answered a question directed to Soup, and that only helps Soup construct an answer from rakes response. There is a reason people ask "Can you tell me your opinion on X once PERSON responds to me on the topic of X?"

#281

I like Spak's 281. Even though he is wrong, he is scumhunting and his belief in it is genuine to me.

You're already RVS voting me, there a reason for your re-do or are you just re-entering the game as the other side of the hydra?

I would like to know the answer to this question as well. Where is He-man.

He made one post with a lot of fluffy, inconsequential "content". The stances in that post are flat-out strange and he hasn't done anything else except a pretty forgettable back and forth with soup.

Agreed.

Kary - Comes back after a long period of inactivity, makes an 11-character post in order to vote Maven, and leaves without any explanation.

@Kary: What is your explanation for this?

FoS: Rake

I know you Vote Kary after this, but I want to know why you don't react to Kary's earlier votes and church organization.

I actually think Rake's outburst looked really out of place. I don't understand how he was so angry at a couple people trying to get him to explain his thoughts and voting him when he failed to comply. He exploded out of nowhere and it didn't look natural in my opinion.

I would be okay with compromising to a Rake lynch. I don't like his Koopa vote and don't think his explanation for it was very good either. He basically just said "why are people townreading Koopa he hasn't done enough to warrant a townread." While that very well may be true, it sure as hell doesn't justify a scumread either.

I agree with this. This is the only point that would spark me to look in Rake's direction. Otherwise, I simply think he's been playing a bad game, and don't find anything suspicious from it, but lazy. I find his play null overall.

Are we reading the same J this game? To the bolded, he has consistently withheld opinions and responses to various questions stating things along the lines of "I don't feel comfortable answering this right now" or "I'll explain later" or sometimes just not even giving an excuse at all.

Have you actually made the effort to question J on these though? Does this still hold up, and if so, can you bring forth the quotes so we can have context? I want to know what exact questions you are still wondering about. I also want to know if you found it telling of alignment or just something out of character from the J you know.

I'm really starting to dislike Spak as of his last back and forth with Kary. I don't have a specific reason besides that right now as it might just be a gut feeling, but all of his posts in that part just seem like he's trying to make it seem like he's doing something relevant while not actually contributing.

I'm also just really disliking Rake. In my opinion, he hasn't really explained his reasons for anything besides saying "I find something this way and you should too" without giving reasons as to why or even trying to convince anybody. He's probably the person I'm disliking the most at the moment, and he needs some pressure.

I liked Spak posting some reads after getting flak for the direction he was taking. Even so, he kept going in that direction. I find that genuine because he didn't back down when the whole thread was opposing his views.

On Rake, I simply if you can show the scum intent in his actions, and how it compares to slots like Joey, Kary, and Red Ryu.

My opinion of Joey is pretty null, if not leaning town. His posts, while long and wordy, give me a sense of his process and don't really seem like talking just for the sake of talking. In fact, he's one of the reasons I'm rethinking my read on Kantrip. I might try to go more in-depth later, but I'm pretty comfortable with him for the moment.

I think you aren't looking hard enough. I think you may be looking for one aspect but that doesn't mean he's off the hook for it. Question is, what do you think of his push on Soup early game, and did you think it was reasonable?

OK then, please enlighten me; how could your organization benefit town?

He's saying that from his pov, that he would see himself as town and therefore know what to do with the church. The question you should be asking then, is Kary doing anything with the results? Did he look at anyone voting with him, did he have any intention to probe reactions from those people? Then, match it with the rest of his play, which I think you looked at.

Joey, where is your head at? Your recent posts have been inconsequential and very null in my mind. Where should we be looking for the end of the Day? You only want to be pushing Soup? Now that he has decided to replace out, does that change your opinion at all?

I agree with this. Going along with my previous reasoning on Joey, I feel since he has focused on Soup the whole time, has not thought about anyone else. As you can see, Soup replacing out slows down Joey's posting, and gives Joey little fuel. There is so much Joey can do yet he focuses on Soup alone, and this is not genuine.

I lean town on that one post. Maybe that isn't deserving of a lean town read. Who cares. If they survive the night and or start playing the game we can have an actual conversation about the slot. We both agree you can't have a solid read on them yet so we don't really have anything to discuss.

It isn't. It's null. I agree that we can talk about the slot once it picks up and plays the game.

Also, if Gheb keeps on acting the way he does, I'm definitely replacing out. My fault for forgetting the "don't join games with Gheb in them" mental rule I had.

He could have toned down the swearing but it isn't something that'd turn people away from the game. This is unfair to Gheb. Telling him he is ruining the game is actually pretty toxic when you can leave it at "please don't yell/swear".

That being said, I do not find it particularly scummy, particularly in light of his recent large post. It reminds me of how Ranmaru used to play when he would catch onto something he didn't like and it would warp his whole view of the game. I can see why people would townread him.

I giggled as I read this post. I definitely see what you say though.

Soup was giving subpar meta reasoning to null-scum read Koops that couldn't progress the game and couldn't be debated. You can't debate with "I felt Koops was a little less inclined to make idle comments like he has that I don't really feel are necessary." because it's literally just a close-minded meta opinion. Our thoughts on Koops are completely different, not similar. If you think our reads are similar, you really need to re-read Soup's posts.

Why is this scumsided? Elaborate on it being a close-minded meta opinion.

Also Soup, this is why J's defense posts were null to me even if I have a town read on him, in case you're still confused on that. Trying to get higher ground in a debate to show that you're correct isn't very telling of alignment. :v

What about J's non-debate posts do you find townie and why? Give examples.

 

[ranmaru]

#HBC | Kary

Vote: JDietz

Why (If explained, ignore)

Vote: Joey

Why (If explained, ignore)

Vote: Maven

Why (If explained, ignore)

Vote: Soup --- soup gives soup a bad name.

Weak.

Vote: KingofKoopas --- choo choo

Why (If explained, ignore)

(gheb votes joey) > what?

Kary, why do you react this way when you voted Joey earlier yourself? How is it different from how you treated Joey?

#244

I find Kary being too flippant with his vote, with little reason speckled through out. This is why I quote his multiple votes, as a reminder. I have Kary as slight scum, due to voting Soup on the basis on one post, instead of looking at his entire play. I also find his recent focus on J concerning, as Sang wasn't talking about something suspicious, making Kary slightly opportunistic. I'd reconsider that point of Kary had pointed out a question that J had still yet to answer.

#HBC | Red Ryu :

#409

This post is pretty underwhelming. I also don't get the tone when you vote Soup, being the best lynch, without any passion or strong belief in it. Just a general dislike of how he handled pressure. This is a pretty lazy attempt at joining the Soup wagon. Red Ryu would be a good compromise toDay.

FoS: Kary; Red Ryu

 

[ranmaru]

@KY Joey:

#180

I get the feeling Joey's whole post is weak and struggling to come off as genuine. His push on soup is very weak, and doesn't outline why Soup shows scum intent. His root cause for disliking Soup is 'subpar reads based on meta', as an entrance to the game. Joey is only looking at the surface here and isn't really thinking of what Soup may be. Plus, he rags on Soup while ignoring Kary's church, who has voted himself and JD without reason and hasn't been doing anything at that point in time. That's a problem. J noticed this earlier, but Joey comes to conclusions too easily without good reason. This to me comes from a scum perspective, who knows who is who. Finally, Spak makes a good point that Joey is missing the rest of Soup's play, while Joey responds saying 'he doesn't see that', instead of saying why the rest of his play = that of a scum perspective.

Joey - His read on Soup seemed too force, as he had misrepped Soup’s play up to that point by picking and choosing what he wanted to see rather than looking at the slot as an entirety.

This is definetly how I feel about Joey's play here. I think Joey's response to this ferments it.

You're free to have those opinions on Soup even though I don't see that at all. I also don't have "getting us out of RVS" as an excuse for a god awful push with no legitimate reasoning what-so-ever. I don't know your definition of "original content"/"fluff" nor do I know where my reads are lacking of significance. While I'd love to push Soup, the way he's responded hasn't left room for anything, and everyone else in the game I haven't seen as worthy of pushing as much as Soup (honestly, there isn't anyone else I really want to push at all tbh)

Here, he waves off Spak's evalution of Soup's contributions to the game by saying "I'm simply don't see that." instead of stating why he's wrong that those aren't good contributions to the game. Yet Joey is focusing on the rvs aspect only, which is suspicious. Joey has hyperfocused on Soup and hasn't really looked into other options when he had nulls. He is my strongest scum read for ToDay.

Vote: Joey

~ Gheb ~ : How are you feeling about Joey at the moment? Would you be willing to vote him ToDay (still)?
#HBC | J : Same question to you. Would you be willing to vote him ToDay?
SangfroidWarrior : What is your opinion of Joey now? Would you join me on Joey ToDay? Also, I have seen your requests to talk to people, and I am definitely willing to talk things out with you.
Spak : Seeing as you find joey someone you can compromise to, are you willing to go to him now?
Kantrip : I see you have a problem with my slot, and I think you like Joey because Soup had a problem with you. Can you please at least look at my argument against Joey to see if it may have merit? Please get back to me.
Shun Goku Satsu Rake : How do you feel about Joey atm? Would you be willing to vote him ToDay?
@Jdietz43 : Opinion on Joey? Would you be willing to vote him ToDay?

The above seven: How do you feel about Red Ryu at the moment? Opinion on Kary? (Please give reasoning for any read related question as well, I don't want to hound anyone for further explanation)

 

[ranmaru]

I'm going to sleep now. I have work in the morning, so expect me to post after I get home from work, which will be a bit before 4pm EST, as I know it will be day of deadline. I'll be around to discuss my picks and compromises.

 

[ranmaru]

@tHe-Man@#HBC | Ryker@#HBC | ZoZo: I forgot to mention, I would like to know your thoughts on the current game state.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Why exactly are you asking for a deadline extension if most of you people are deadset on lynching Rake anyway? Ran could've just used the Night Phase to catch up and the game isn't active enough to make a 24-hour extension count in the first place. What a waste.

ranmaru I'm not actually interested in lynching Joey at all right now.

 

[#HBC | J]

Yeah, I disagreed with the deadline being extended as well.

ranmaru : I would say that I could vote Joey toDay, but it is not my preference.

 

[ranmaru]

J, I have a question directed to you in my #471. I'd like to see your answer to it.

Question for everyone dead-set on Rake:

If he flips scum, how does that affect your reads? How about if he flips town, how would that affect your reads? Who would you look into in each scenario.

 

[Kantrip]

Ranmaru's catchup is meh to me.

ranmaru - Your biggest problem with Joey seems to be his push on soup. What do you think about my push against soup and why is Joey's worse/different?

 

[Kantrip]

Shun Goku Satsu Rake - Did you answer the question about why you would find Sang the scummiest out of J/soup/Sang in my position?