Undertale Mafia, 13 man! Game over! Town wins!

[Kantrip]

I see Ran's entrance to the game as a few "I agree" statements, asking Kary for a bunch of vote explanations, and then asking a bunch of people separately what they think of his scumreads. It's a big wall of info but it really isn't saying anything. I still want to lynch Ran toDay.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

... what exactly is it that keeps us from lynching Koops? I still don't get that.

 

[ranmaru]

Kantrip :

To me your push seems to have more reasoning than Joey does, yet I never compared the two pushes and nor do I simply only look at that. You have been active, and you have been re-evaluating. I did mention I understand your point of view and I understand J's as well, when it comes to your push on J. Joey has been less active, and hasn't really been looking into other leads once Soup replaced out. He isn't trying very hard. One point that you use against soup is that he was using RVS as an excuse, yet you forget that Joey only focused on the RVS aspect, nothing else. Is that really fine for you and everyone else?

Joey is my strongest read and my other reads are pretty weak. I only just came in but my reads will develop as the game continues and I interact with more people. I like Spak, I like Sang, I like you (even though you are wrong), and that leaves me with a bunch of nulls. Now you say I bring up things that you don't care for, yet these are people that are null to slightly suspicious, and need to explain their mindset more. I'm null on Gheb, Koops, Rake, and He-Man.

I think you are also confirmation biasing my slot due to Soup, and feel you are shutting me down without giving me a chance to show you a different perspective. I can try to give you what Soup may have been thinking for you, that is the best I can do. Finally, people should care about Kary's unexplained votes early on, and should care about what He-Man is thinking. It makes sense for me who has replaced in, to ask about things I find unexplained and concerning.

If you have a problem with my catch up, why not comment on Red Ryu? What is your opinion of him and his catch up? How is it different than my catch up?

@tHe-Man @#HBC | Ryker @#HBC | ZoZo: Please give thoughts on the current state, messed up tags last time.

I'll be at work now so expect responses later today.

 

[Dooms]

His push on soup is very weak, and doesn't outline why Soup shows scum intent.

I didn't know that "With the way he has been playing so far, I really can't justify what he has done as scum hunting because of how poorly he has defined his suspicions." Equates to not outlining why Soup shows scum intent. Last time I checked, not scum hunting means you're just trying to place reads on people, which isn't something townies would want to do.

Plus, he rags on Soup while ignoring Kary's church, who has voted himself and JD without reason and hasn't been doing anything at that point in time.

Why would I pay attention to something obviously RVS AND something that hasn't been brought up since early game? I really don't care if Kary RVS voted me, especially when it was 3 pages prior to my entrance into the game.

Finally, Spak makes a good point that Joey is missing the rest of Soup's play, while Joey responds saying 'he doesn't see that', instead of saying why the rest of his play = that of a scum perspective.

The main point was that I don't see what I could have missed that could justify town Soup, and I'm not going to go out of my way to highlight scum intent in every post when he has posted zero evidence towards what Soup HAS done that could have been townie.

Yet Joey is focusing on the rvs aspect only, which is suspicious.

Thanks for ignoring the part of my push that was posted in regard to Kantrip's vote and how suspicious that was to me. :v

 

[Dooms]

One point that you use against soup is that he was using RVS as an excuse, yet you forget that Joey only focused on the RVS aspect, nothing else. Is that really fine for you and everyone else?

Can I sub out?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

#HBC | Kary

Why (If explained, ignore)
Why (If explained, ignore)
Why (If explained, ignore)
Weak.

Why (If explained, ignore)



Kary, why do you react this way when you voted Joey earlier yourself? How is it different from how you treated Joey?

#244

I find Kary being too flippant with his vote, with little reason speckled through out. This is why I quote his multiple votes, as a reminder. I have Kary as slight scum, due to voting Soup on the basis on one post, instead of looking at his entire play. I also find his recent focus on J concerning, as Sang wasn't talking about something suspicious, making Kary slightly opportunistic. I'd reconsider that point of Kary had pointed out a question that J had still yet to answer.

#HBC | Red Ryu :

#409

This post is pretty underwhelming. I also don't get the tone when you vote Soup, being the best lynch, without any passion or strong belief in it. Just a general dislike of how he handled pressure. This is a pretty lazy attempt at joining the Soup wagon. Red Ryu would be a good compromise toDay.

FoS: Kary; Red Ryu

He was and is the best lynch. If you said I wasn't too strong on it. You would be right. Sped up a reread the day before, soup's replace out and interaction with Joey looked terrible.

Soup has replaced out as scum to let his slot slide by before to use Ate. It was grimy then and I find it grimy here.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'm staying on the Soup slot.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

#HBC | J Why are you magically ok with the Soup slot?

 

[#HBC | J]

#HBC | J Why are you magically ok with the Soup slot?

Never have and never was "ok" with Soup's slot. I said his lynch would be fine.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Never have and never was "ok" with Soup's slot. I said his lynch would be fine.

Are you voting him right now?

If not you need to switch over to it.

 

[#HBC | J]

Nah, I'd be much more appreciative if you switched over to Rake instead of Ranmaru.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Nah, I'd be much more appreciative if you switched over to Rake instead of Ranmaru.

No thanks.

Would prefer you switched over to Ranmaru.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Those high level debating skills though ...

 

[#HBC | J]

This deadline extension seems to only be netting more content from Ran's slot since everyone else is okay to just let the game continue as is even after belly aching that there isn't much going on. There is 12 hours remaining and no one is adding any more chips to the table.

 

[#HBC | J]

BarDulL

If tHe-Man does not post or let the thread knows what is going on by day-end, I request a force replacement/modkill of the slot especially since we even had a deadline extension. I would rather have someone replace but with two people already replaced out on D1, I understand that the possibility of a modkill is probably more realistic.

 

[Spak]

BarDulL

If tHe-Man does not post or let the thread knows what is going on by day-end, I request a force replacement/modkill of the slot especially since we even had a deadline extension. I would rather have someone replace but with two people already replaced out on D1, I understand that the possibility of a modkill is probably more realistic.

Yeah, Ryker was online this morning at 10 AM, but no word from either person in the Hydra. I want to know if Bard wants to modkill at the end of day or replace, though, because we might lose a phase if 3 die today/tonight.

 

[ranmaru]

I should be getting off soon. Will respond once I get home. I would like Sangfroid and J to respond to any questions I have given in my catch up and previous posts.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Kary, why do you react this way when you voted Joey earlier yourself? How is it different from how you treated Joey?

I liked Joey's play in general and didn't see anything wrong with it, but Gheb voted for him and I was surprised- Gheb doesn't even explain himself of course. (He did since then but not at the time).

I find Kary being too flippant with his vote, with little reason speckled through out. This is why I quote his multiple votes, as a reminder. I have Kary as slight scum, due to voting Soup on the basis on one post, instead of looking at his entire play. I also find his recent focus on J concerning, as Sang wasn't talking about something suspicious, making Kary slightly opportunistic. I'd reconsider that point of Kary had pointed out a question that J had still yet to answer.

Most of the votes that you quoted are just RVS though. It is wrong to say I voted soup just over one post- for instance I felt he was being defensive in response to Joey, and I felt that he was not really pushing anything. I feel like you are focusing too much on my votes when they don't tell the whole story. This game has really stalled because there have been too many people inactive and it is hard to get a waggon going- votes do not mean a lot in that context.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Have you actually made the effort to question J on these though? Does this still hold up, and if so, can you bring forth the quotes so we can have context? I want to know what exact questions you are still wondering about. I also want to know if you found it telling of alignment or just something out of character from the J you know.

I answered this a bit ago, but I will again for the sake of explaining more. There were I think two questions that I asked J that he didn't respond to with an answer I am used to getting from him. It might be that I haven't played with him for a while but this just seemed out of character. The specific posts I was referring to were 270/271 and 344. Just kind of in terms of him only really giving hints and not being as open as I'm used to. Or at least of how I think J plays. He hasn't fully answered them still, but I'm holding him to them for toMorrow, at least.

I think you aren't looking hard enough. I think you may be looking for one aspect but that doesn't mean he's off the hook for it. Question is, what do you think of his push on Soup early game, and did you think it was reasonable?

I thought his early push on Soup wasn't bad in and of itself (I might not have necessarily agreed with it, but it was something), but his continued pushing of Soup even when Soup wasn't here just seemed a bit like tunneling to the point that I didn't know what his other reads were.

SangfroidWarrior : What is your opinion of Joey now? Would you join me on Joey ToDay? Also, I have seen your requests to talk to people, and I am definitely willing to talk things out with you.

My opinion of Joey is null. I kind of flip flop back and forth between reading him because, while I do still believe I can see some effort and intent behind his posts, there are some things that give me pause of having me lean town for him. One of those things being his continued and intense (but also not intense) focus on Soup. I would only join you on Joey toDay if there weren't others on the table I'd want to lynch more, such as Rake (or even Koopa).

My question is, do you actually think Joey is a viable lynch for toDay? With so many people just in here occasionally and with less than 24 (12?) hours til deadline, do you think you have enough time to get support for a Joey lynch?

How do you feel about Red Ryu at the moment? Opinion on Kary?

I honestly don't know how to feel about RR. He's trying to push a Soup lynch similar to Joey's and I don't really agree with his reasonings. It's like he's trying but not really. Then again, he did come in late and most of his posts are one-liners or him catching up, so I have to give it a bit before I really know how to feel. So, null.

As for Kary, a re-read has made me actually be very suspicious of her. While she somewhat echos my thoughts on some things, she just seems to flip-flop often with her views and stances, and she seems more than comfortable with just coasting along or following other people (I'm looking at 333 and beyond, specifically). I can't go too much in depth because my brain is fried for the day with this, but I'd say a slight scum lean for Kary.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Yeah, I thought the deadline extension would be helpful but it's just muddling things up for me more than it was before.

I'm staying on the Soup slot.

Okay, but, with this post and your post prior to this, are you basing most of your scum read on Soup's slot on meta?

Play the game, J. You're keeping things to yourself for what reason exactly?

Kary, do you fully believe that J is withholding information? Besides the posts that I have pointed out (in the post prior to this), where else do you think he's keeping things to himself? Do you think this is scummy or just not good?

Tell me how I am actively scummy. Give me one thing I've dine except not go as hard on koopa as people apparently expect. Luke seriously. My entire wagon can be summed up as people voting me because it's the thing to do. Dietz is doing it. J is doing it and I can guarantee maybe you alone have stated a valid reason to vote me. Everyone else is just coasting on my wagon because they can't create their own ****ing content or find anything better to do than vote me because I'm "not pushing koopa" in a way they like. Yell me what I'm supposed to do differently. The entire premise is ********

I think Dietz honestly gave more concise and concrete reasons to be voting you than I did, but besides that I am also slightly confused as to the support your wagon has gotten, considering there are some people on it that I didn't even know had suspicion of you. Some actively scummy things you have done: I have only seen you really get involved when the matter pertains to you, you voted Koopa with little to no explanation (your post following that didn't even have any reasonings why), and your delayed explanation was something that could be applied to multiple slots at the time. I've stated before but it's just really odd to me for your scum reads to be people that aren't really in thread considering how many other people have posted.

... what exactly is it that keeps us from lynching Koops? I still don't get that.

There's not much (active) support behind it, it seems.

I am becoming less... comfortable, I guess, with a Rake lynch. While I am still fine with it and believe it is a good way to go for the Day, there is something in the back of my mind that is making me feel uneasy. I'm not even sure there's a point to saying this, but the continued support of many people that are just coasting on this lynch, how some people just seemed willing to immediately go along with it, has left me with a bad taste.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Everyone is just sitting on their hands pretending that the activity isn't their problem. The only people who have an excuse to not say anything are those who are confident in Rake being scum- which can't be very many people considering that the case against him is very thin.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Yeah, I thought the deadline extension would be helpful but it's just muddling things up for me more than it was before.



Okay, but, with this post and your post prior to this, are you basing most of your scum read on Soup's slot on meta?



Kary, do you fully believe that J is withholding information? Besides the posts that I have pointed out (in the post prior to this), where else do you think he's keeping things to himself? Do you think this is scummy or just not good?



I think Dietz honestly gave more concise and concrete reasons to be voting you than I did, but besides that I am also slightly confused as to the support your wagon has gotten, considering there are some people on it that I didn't even know had suspicion of you. Some actively scummy things you have done: I have only seen you really get involved when the matter pertains to you, you voted Koopa with little to no explanation (your post following that didn't even have any reasonings why), and your delayed explanation was something that could be applied to multiple slots at the time. I've stated before but it's just really odd to me for your scum reads to be people that aren't really in thread considering how many other people have posted.



There's not much (active) support behind it, it seems.

I am becoming less... comfortable, I guess, with a Rake lynch. While I am still fine with it and believe it is a good way to go for the Day, there is something in the back of my mind that is making me feel uneasy. I'm not even sure there's a point to saying this, but the continued support of many people that are just coasting on this lynch, how some people just seemed willing to immediately go along with it, has left me with a bad taste.

Partially, I hate his play in general but the replace out makes me not want up let up.

It was grimy and screams of what he did in a previous game.

 

[Spak]

I apologize, but I'll be fairly inactive today; I can't think clearly about Mafia with bronchitis. I'll probably be around to vote near deadline unless I fall asleep before then.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I understand Rake's reaction more which is why I'm not as bothered and don't want to join on it. I get where the frustration came from more than Soup's that is why I don't want to vote that way unless I have to.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I apologize, but I'll be fairly inactive today; I can't think clearly about Mafia with bronchitis. I'll probably be around to vote near deadline unless I fall asleep before then.

Get medication for that, **** sucks and I was out for a week with that.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Everyone is just sitting on their hands pretending that the activity isn't their problem. The only people who have an excuse to not say anything are those who are confident in Rake being scum- which can't be very many people considering that the case against him is very thin.

Stop making me like you!

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'll only vote Rake of deadlined.

That direction I don't like while Soup has been far worse. Ran has played better but Soup's play was atrocious. Far worse than how Rake reaction, I am also using slight meta on this but I don't like the Rake wagon and think lunching Soup is far better.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

#HBC | Kary Are you still looking at wanting a Koopa lynch toDay? Why? (If you've already explained, I will go look again). Who else, if not Koops?

#HBC | Red Ryu I'm still not down for a Soup lynch (partially because I want to give Ran a shot), and it doesn't seem like you're down for Rake. What would be a good compromise, in your opinion?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

#HBC | Kary Are you still looking at wanting a Koopa lynch toDay? Why? (If you've already explained, I will go look again). Who else, if not Koops?

#HBC | Red Ryu I'm still not down for a Soup lynch (partially because I want to give Ran a shot), and it doesn't seem like you're down for Rake. What would be a good compromise, in your opinion?

Ran's catch-up was meh, Soup's play was still bad. Why do hard to lynch Rake?

Again, I would switch if deadlined but I am not for that direction.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

I guess as a continuation to my 500, I think I'm more uncomfortable with the wagon than with the lynch itself, if that makes any sense. I'm not sure how to explain it.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Kary, do you fully believe that J is withholding information? Besides the posts that I have pointed out (in the post prior to this), where else do you think he's keeping things to himself? Do you think this is scummy or just not good?

J has been ignoring me since at least #317 . The whole game he's been tread softly-softly, often saying like 'I am worried about X, what do you think?' rather than committing to anything on his own. I could write pages and pages on how weird J's play is right now. But he is definitely keeping things to himself.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

#HBC | Kary Are you still looking at wanting a Koopa lynch toDay? Why? (If you've already explained, I will go look again). Who else, if not Koops?

I have already resigned myself to just lynching whoever today. If we actually wanted to switch waggons, tHe-man seems like a reasonable compromise that everyone can get behind.

In terms of Koops, I don't find him that scummy, I more think his slot could do with more attention and it is healthy to have competing waggons. It wasn't until after I voted him that I realized how close the deadline really was.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

EBWOP I done goofed the above somehow

#HBC | Kary Are you still looking at wanting a Koopa lynch toDay? Why? (If you've already explained, I will go look again). Who else, if not Koops?

I have already resigned myself to just lynching whoever today. If we actually wanted to switch waggons, tHe-man seems like a reasonable compromise that everyone can get behind.

In terms of Koops, I don't find him that scummy, I more think his slot could do with more attention and it is healthy to have competing waggons. It wasn't until after I voted him that I realized how close the deadline really was.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Right now my biggest problem is that I think there was something fishy going on earlier in the Day, between J and Kantrip, and to a lesser extent, Joey and Soup. It seems as though that has all blown over now and no-one has anything to say about it, but I find it hard to believe that the whole thing, all of it, was TvT.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Ran's catch-up was meh, Soup's play was still bad. Why do hard to lynch Rake?

Prior to me voting him, Rake was just very odd in his opinions and reactions to things. I somewhat explained this above, but he was just very... safe in his pushes, in his reads, and in his statements. After voting and after the wagon started, his reaction was just so extreme that I had to step back, and then his play continued the same as before. I wouldn't say I'm hard-pressed to lynch him, but he's my biggest scum read at the moment. But, his recent posts have given me pause and made me realize I might need to re-think my read(s?).

As with you, if I have to I will switch to Soup, but I won't like it.

J has been ignoring me since at least #317 . The whole game he's been tread softly-softly, often saying like 'I am worried about X, what do you think?' rather than committing to anything on his own. I could write pages and pages on how weird J's play is right now. But he is definitely keeping things to himself.

I... I didn't see that, the 317 thing. Have you continued to question him since then and he just hasn't responded?

Also, my problem with lynching Adam is that we would have effectively lost the entire Day, IMO. We have people that are actively doing things, people that we can get reactions from, connections from, anything. From an Adam lynch we basically get nothing besides a few weak connections that can be argued.

On another note, I think those things have blown over because there's nothing really we can gain from it currently since there are other things happening. Do you think either of those interactions could have been TvS? Which ones?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

[...] the continued support of many people that are just coasting on this lynch, how some people just seemed willing to immediately go along with it, has left me with a bad taste.

Totally arguing against my own agenda here ... but wouldn't that be all the more reason for you to be in favor of lynching Rake toDay?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

I... I didn't see that, the 317 thing. Have you continued to question him since then and he just hasn't responded?

Just #442-444. This is the same J who has had me as 'scummy' forever without saying why, by the way.

Also, my problem with lynching Adam is that we would have effectively lost the entire Day, IMO. We have people that are actively doing things, people that we can get reactions from, connections from, anything. From an Adam lynch we basically get nothing besides a few weak connections that can be argued

Rake's slot isn't a bad lynch, for what it's worth. I just feel people are lynching him because he's there.

On another note, I think those things have blown over because there's nothing really we can gain from it currently since there are other things happening. Do you think either of those interactions could have been TvS? Which ones?

Except that barely anything has happened. All there was was Spak going after me (which is a dead end) and the Rake waggon.
People seemed to be agreeing that Kantrip was scummy, but then soup dropped out, and Gheb said 'no I like him' and so the whole thing has cooled off. Personally I think there's at least one scum between J & Kantrip, but at the very least they're worth looking into.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I don't know what the current votecount is looking like but I'll be going to bed soon. If nobody's willing to ... actually do stuff I'll switch my vote to Rake. Kind of a sub-par conclusion to this Day but w/e.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Vote: Rake

Good night.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Totally arguing against my own agenda here ... but wouldn't that be all the more reason for you to be in favor of lynching Rake toDay?

I guess? I have to ruminate on it, I think.

And, yeah, I was hoping with so many people wanting a deadline extension that things would actually happen but nothing is getting done because nobody is really posting.

Except that barely anything has happened. All there was was Spak going after me (which is a dead end) and the Rake waggon. People seemed to be agreeing that Kantrip was scummy, but then soup dropped out, and Gheb said 'no I like him' and so the whole thing has cooled off. Personally I think there's at least one scum between J & Kantrip, but at the very least they're worth looking into.

I'm curious, which side do you think would be more likely to be scum? While I find J's play slightly odd, I don't find it necessarily scummy and, besides that initial thing by Kanty in this interaction, I see that slot as more town than scum, so that interaction looks more TvT to me.