Meta Two Sides of the Same Coin - Pit/ Dark Pit Meta Game Discussion

[_Darkpit_]

There was a VG bootcamp video of them showing off Pit's moveset. Someone said that his new recovery is like Fox's except it "can't be aimed downwards." Is that true for both Pit and Dark Pit?

Also, his arrows are less mobile is that right? What's the most they can bend?

Yes thats true. ^^ But I hope Darkpit is not to bad... I don't recognize advantages of Darkpit. =/

 

[BlinkIV]

@monkokaio It can't be aimed downwards, it has longer range than Fire Fox and Fire bird. The endlag of it is really bad though, and you can recover from almost ANYWHERE. Even from the bottom of the blastzone on FD for example.

As far as Arrows, see my post above about the differences for the arrows.

@ _Darkpit_ I'm sure he's a solid character, he won't be too bad. B-air and N-air being auto-cancellable, F-Smash killing super early, F-Throw being a reliable kill move, excellent recovery, hard to gimp.

 

[_Darkpit_]

@monkokaio It can't be aimed downwards, it has longer range than Fire Fox and Fire bird. The endlag of it is really bad though, and you can recover from almost ANYWHERE. Even from the bottom of the blastzone on FD for example.

As far as Arrows, see my post above about the differences for the arrows.

@ _Darkpit_ I'm sure he's a solid character, he won't be too bad. B-air and N-air being auto-cancellable, F-Smash killing super early, F-Throw being a reliable kill move, excellent recovery, hard to gimp.

Okay. I thought that because it seems that some characters are maybe to nasty. For example Bowser:

He breaks full shields and defeat Fox with 29% damage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=GOaQb2x2LSk

05:18 min

I thought: '' Oh my god. Other characters can't do that. Especially with 29% damage. o.o '' And there were in the center of the stage.

 

[Captain Norris]

so what are the major differences between pit and dark pit?

 

[Emblem Lord]

His tilts look incredible. I dare say they outrange Marths by a fraction now. idk if they are as safe though.

He seems more solid at neutral, while his zoning may be less effective but so what? Dudes options during mid range look way scarier.

 

[New_Dumal]

I heard Pit is a little bit faster and a little bit weaker than Dark Pit, plus the differences in the knockback direction.
It's true ? Because in this situation I will play both of them, changing for each MU.
It's nice to have custom moves AND a "custom character" as main.

I mained Pit in Brawl, in the last 2 years going to MK for the hard Pit MU's.
Don't need to change completely my character because Pit has that power problem would be a nice thing.

Anxious to watch some Pit gameplay, since I just saw Dark Pit until now.

 

[CHOMPY]

Is it true that you can't curve your arrows after shooting them off?

 

[lob]

are there any vods of pit gameplay in smash 4?

 

[Jellyfishn]

Is it true that you can't curve your arrows after shooting them off?

Only very slightly with Dark Pit. They only bend up or down at a small angle.

 

[Neo Zero]

At most, the angle is about a 30 degree angle up or down on the plane he's shooting on.

 

[Sora Keyblade Master]

Dark pit will have a new moveset for the wii u. The only reason he was clone is because he was put into the game towards the end of development. This has been confirmed, so anyone feel free to quote me on this.

 

[Morbi]

Dark pit will have a new moveset for the wii u. The only reason he was clone is because he was put into the game towards the end of development. This has been confirmed, so anyone feel free to quote me on this.

I will feel free to request a source. Dark Pit's move-set is not going to change from one version to the next.

 

[True Blue]

Probably gonna Secondary this awesome guy. So thought I would pop in here and add stuff.
Yo, so I don't know if you guys know this already and it is easier to just post and ask then read everything. But did you guys know that Dark Pit's Down Air Spikes?
Yo and his Arrows can kill when fully charged lol.
Though has anyone found if there is a threshold limit to His Down B?
Cause in Brawl and P:M and and Melee, all reflectors usually had a Threshold to how much damage they could soak and reflect before "breaking"

 

[Deleted member]

This guy seems great (and I supported him). Since I can't fit him with my mains, I'm probably going to change my avatar to him at some point. As for offline play, does anybody know if his controllable arrows custom is more useful for edgeguarding than the normal arrows? And do his 3rd more reflector-oriented orbitars have super armor against physical attacks?

 

[_Darkpit_]

But what's on Darkpits arrows better than Pits? I mean you can control it only slightly.

 

[NinjaLink]

I uploaded a video for Dark Pit's Custom moves. Hope it helps in the future.

 

[True Blue]

The Arrows can kill when fully charged? I killed someone with it once. lol. But other than that maybe more damage?

 

[Neo Zero]

The Arrows can kill when fully charged? I killed someone with it once. lol. But other than that maybe more damage?

Yup. Uncharged does 4% Pittoo, 3% Pit, and Charged is 10% Pitto, 8% Pit

 

[Sora Keyblade Master]

I will feel free to request a source. Dark Pit's move-set is not going to change from one version to the next.

It will.

 

[arcticfox8]

It will.

Nah man
Nah

 

[Neo Zero]

I'd appreciate it if you didn't spread blatant lies here Sora

Bair seems rather odd btw...Im getting so many different percents with this. Where exactly is the sweet spot on it?

 

[Sora Keyblade Master]

Not a lie. I was told this by a reliable source. Dark Pit was put into the game during the very final stages of development. So sakurai didn't have the desired time needed to finish development on him. Under the rule that both games must have the same characters, he chose to go with a clone move set to save time, and include dark pit into the game.

Knowing the Wii-U release was still about 2 months away he would be able to complete development for dark pit giving him the desired changes and moveset. The rule was that both games had to have the same characters, nothing said that all characters had to have exactly the same moves in both versions. Regardless of if you all believe me or not, i couldn't give a rat's ass about. I just simply wanted to be the first to share the info. Take it with grain of salt and move on about your day if like. But its not a lie.

 

[True Blue]

I am gonna say that it is a lie, cause Snake was a prime example of them rushing the game and not fixing the problems nor caring as much. Since his hit boxes were never resized when they were supposed to, from the many rumors heard about that issue.
And Sonic was another one of those as well since they kinda rehashed 80% of his moves in Brawl from his old fighting game Sonic the Fighters. AND Lucina/Dr. Mario, so they were not afraid of doing clones. lol.

And maybe Dark Pit's Sweet Spot in Back Air is in him? Like a Roy/Marth situation for Pittoo/Pit.

Man, I remember playing and having moments where Nair, if I didn't hit them with the first hit, it would kinda empty hit people and not do anything until the final hit happened.
Don't know if I am just going crazy or if that is a thing or maybe my opponent was just good at air dodging through it.

 

[Mono.]

I really like DP's Electroshock Arm 3. That can really help in a lot of matchups against certain characters. Like I can imagine Kirby being one of them.

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

I haven't seen many good videos. I played both Pit & Dark Pit at the Japanese Smash station @ Tipped Off 10. Pit seemed better to me. He had less laggy aerials, and his side-b kills a lot faster/more consistent to hit w/ than Dark Pits.

 

[Folt]

So... Dark Pit's weapon arsenal in Smash:

Silver Bow: His replacement for the Palutena Bow and his signature weapon, he uses this weapon the most out of his entire arsenal in Uprising.
Electroshock Arm (Electric properties. Not a weapon he uses in the actual game, unless you're playing as him.)
Guardian Orbitars (The only weapon that is exactly the same as Pit's, am I right? Also not a weapon he uses in the actual game, unless you're playing as him.)
Dark Pit Staff (Used in his Final Smash in place of the Three Sacred Treasures. While it's not his signature weapon, it is associated with him and one of his trademark weapons.)

 

[_Darkpit_]

If Darkpit uses the explosive Guardian Orbitars, can they protect Darkpit against physical attacks? Or does it reflect projectiles?

 

[LancerStaff]

Not a lie. I was told this by a reliable source. Dark Pit was put into the game during the very final stages of development. So sakurai didn't have the desired time needed to finish development on him. Under the rule that both games must have the same characters, he chose to go with a clone move set to save time, and include dark pit into the game.

Knowing the Wii-U release was still about 2 months away he would be able to complete development for dark pit giving him the desired changes and moveset. The rule was that both games had to have the same characters, nothing said that all characters had to have exactly the same moves in both versions. Regardless of if you all believe me or not, i couldn't give a rat's *** about. I just simply wanted to be the first to share the info. Take it with grain of salt and move on about your day if like. But its not a lie.

Try giving the Smash direct a watch again. Sakurai says that the roster will both be the same and play the same.

Even then, the characters themselves have to be done first. Every mode uses the characters, and they have to work to be tested. This is further evidenced by the fact that DP and the other clones weren't just tossed into the unlock requirements. You get a character every ten matches, and DP is the fourth or fith character you unlock in this fashion. The reveal trailers too support this, since making the videos takes months.

 

[Coffee™]

Not a lie. I was told this by a reliable source. Dark Pit was put into the game during the very final stages of development. So sakurai didn't have the desired time needed to finish development on him. Under the rule that both games must have the same characters, he chose to go with a clone move set to save time, and include dark pit into the game.

Knowing the Wii-U release was still about 2 months away he would be able to complete development for dark pit giving him the desired changes and moveset. The rule was that both games had to have the same characters, nothing said that all characters had to have exactly the same moves in both versions. Regardless of if you all believe me or not, i couldn't give a rat's *** about. I just simply wanted to be the first to share the info. Take it with grain of salt and move on about your day if like. But its not a lie.

Lol..... this guy.

I really like DP's Electroshock Arm 3. That can really help in a lot of matchups against certain characters. Like I can imagine Kirby being one of them.

How so?

Imo, EA3 is nice but EA1 seems like it's going to be more practical in most situations . I'm actually liking the look of his Piercing Arrow. A little slow but it seems like it can put good pressure on most characters due to it's size. I wonder if it eats through other projectiles like other piercing customs.

 

[Mono.]

To armor through attacks with a more powerful kill move is definitely devastating to close-combat oriented characters. EA3 seems ideal for that and gives DP a defensive, counter-like option in sacrifice for mobility. It's less functional than EA1 overall but I know I will use EA3 against hyper offensive players and characters.

 

[Neo Zero]

For customs, I'm really liking the Brawl Arrows. Nothing is as great as being able to make your opponent a pincushion. I don't use many of the other ones honestly so far, though I'm at least playing around with the different reflectors.

 

[True Blue]

I like EA2, that distance! Lol. So far my favorite thing with Pittoo is just slow walking away and the minute my opponent drops shield I dash back into them with Side B.

 

[Sora Keyblade Master]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKI6I4Ma2tg&list=UUkmP59n7648ESU0PJsJMiRw
Go to 4:38 in this video more proof. Sakurai doesn't keep his word, he can make changes as he see fit.

 

[arcticfox8]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKI6I4Ma2tg&list=UUkmP59n7648ESU0PJsJMiRw
Go to 4:38 in this video more proof. Sakurai doesn't keep his word, he can make changes as he see fit.

Drop it
We get it
This isn't the thread for it anyway

 

[LancerStaff]

I heard Pit is a little bit faster and a little bit weaker than Dark Pit, plus the differences in the knockback direction.
It's true ? Because in this situation I will play both of them, changing for each MU.
It's nice to have custom moves AND a "custom character" as main.

I mained Pit in Brawl, in the last 2 years going to MK for the hard Pit MU's.
Don't need to change completely my character because Pit has that power problem would be a nice thing.

Anxious to watch some Pit gameplay, since I just saw Dark Pit until now.

That'd be what I'm hearing. @ Fire Tactician is maining the two right now, although he prefers Pittwo.

 

[Fire Tactician]

That'd be what I'm hearing. @ Fire Tactician is maining the two right now, although he prefers Pittwo.

"Sorry to keep you waiting!"

I haven't spent much time over here at the Pit end of things, but I'm really liking both of them. "Maining" is such a hard thing for me... I currently have eight characters in a rotation that I'm highly interested in!

Still, Pit was my main back in Brawl, so naturally both him and Pittoo are probably my two best (but I did beat ZeRo with Lucario, so that's saying something!). Yeah, I prefer Pittoo at the moment, but that's because his little extra power makes KOing easier and I struggle with KO moves (I'm bad at sweet-spotting). I'm still able to pick up Pit and play pretty well with him.

Their differences are hard to tell- I might solely prefer Dark Pit for his Electroshock Arm since it leads to some off-stage play. Pit feels lighter, more agile, and speedier, while Pittoo's attacks feel like they have more substance. I italicize "feel" because I'm not sure. They seem to play very similarly, but there's something about them that's off and I really can't honestly say that one is definitively better than the other. I guess time will tell when people begin to play with them themselves and feel them out. The way I see it, everyone will have one of them that they're slightly more comfortable with but will still be able to use both of them effectively.

I personally would love to know for some more ways to make Pit stand out- I feel a bit guilty not being able to use him as effectively as Pittoo. Still, customizations could go a long way to make them feel truly unique.

edit: Wait, I might have figured it out! Or should I say... weight? Pit feels lighter and I think that he gets a bit more air on his jumps. Dark Pit seems to sink a bit faster... I wonder if this is it...

 

[Katakiri]

I hope you all love numbers! Since no one else bothered, I come from the Lucina forum bearing data on both Pit and Dark Pit.
@ Neo Zero This might be something to have in the OP of the thread since the Pits differences seem to be a common question.

Foreword: So some characters in this game have decimals in their damage numbers; Pit and Dark Pit are two such characters. This means that there's a hidden damage value adding up when you do damage (training mode will only register whole numbers in the data feed-back it gives so it's easy to miss) but the most important thing is that these decimals affect Knock Back (we think at least) meaning Pit and Dark Pit get a little extra distance on-hit than characters doing the same whole numbers of damage.

One last thing that's important to clear up beforehand, Dark Pit isn't any slower or faster than Pit. Their animations are all the same.

Anyway, here are Pit and Dark Pit's Damage Outputs:

Jab 1 - 2%, 2%, 5% (Pit) - 2%, 2%, 5% (Dark Pit)

Jab 2 (Rapid) - 2%, 2%, 1%~~~, 2% (Pit) - 2%, 2%, 1%~~~, 2% (Dark Pit)

Forward Tilt - 7% (Pit) - 7% (Dark Pit)

Down Tilt - 6% (Pit) - 6% (Dark Pit)

Up Tilt - 2%, 3%, 5% (Pit) - 2%, 3%, 5% (Dark Pit)

Forward Smash - 5.1556%, 10.1556% (Pit) - 5.1556%, 10.1556% (Dark Pit)
Fully Charged Forward Smash - 7%, 14% (Pit) - 7%, 14% (Dark Pit)

Down Smash - 12.3334% (Pit) - 12.3334% (Dark Pit)
Fully Charged Down Smash - 16.5% (Pit) - 16.5% (Dark Pit)

Up Smash - 2%, 3%, 8.334% (Pit) - 2%, 3%, 8.334% (Dark Pit)
Fully Charged Up Smash - 2%, 4%, 11% (Pit) - 2%, 4%, 11% (Dark Pit)

Neutral Air - 0.6% x7 Hits, 4% (8% Total) (Pit) - 0.6% x7 Hits, 4% (8% Total) (Dark Pit)

Forward Air - 1.5%, 1.5%, 4% (Pit) - 1.5%, 1.5%, 4% (Dark Pit)

Back Air - 12% (Pit) - 12% (Dark Pit)

Down Air - 10% (Pit) - 10% (Dark Pit)

Up Air - 2%, 2%, 2%, 2%, 2% (Pit) - 2%, 2%, 2%, 2%, 2% (Dark Pit)

Neutral Special (Arrows) - 3.334% (Uncharged), 8.5% (Fully Charged) (Pit) - 3.8% (Uncharged), 10.5% (Fully Charged) (Dark Pit)

Side Special (Arms) - 11% (Pit) - 11.5% (Dark Pit)

Grab / Pummel: - 2% (Pit) - 2% (Dark Pit)

Forward Throw - 6%, 4% (Pit) - 6%, 4% (Dark Pit)

Back Throw - 8% (Pit) - 8% (Dark Pit)

Down Throw - 2%, 4% (Pit) - 2%, 4% (Dark Pit)

Up Throw - 4%, 7% (Pit) - 4%, 7% (Dark Pit)


While I can't speak for Knock-Back angles, (I know their Side-B have different angles) Dark Pit is truly a carbon copy of Pit bar their Special Attacks having slightly different damage outputs and arrow control.

On the bright side, if you know how to use Dark Pit, you know how to use Pit just as well.

 

[Morbi]

I hope you all love numbers! Since no one else bothered, I come from the Lucina forum bearing data on both Pit and Dark Pit.
@ Neo Zero This might be something to have in the OP of the thread since the Pits differences seem to be a common question.

Foreword: So some characters in this game have decimals in their damage numbers; Pit and Dark Pit are two such characters. This means that there's a hidden damage value adding up when you do damage (training mode will only register whole numbers in the data feed-back it gives so it's easy to miss) but the most important thing is that these decimals affect Knock Back meaning Pit and Dark Pit get a little extra distance on-hit than characters doing the same whole numbers of damage.

One last thing that's important to clear up beforehand, Dark Pit isn't any slower or faster than Pit. Their animations are all the same.

Anyway, here are Pit and Dark Pit's Damage Outputs:

Jab 1 - 2%, 2%, 5% (Pit) - 2%, 2%, 5% (Dark Pit)

Jab 2 (Rapid) - 2%, 2%, 1%~~~, 2% (Pit) - 2%, 2%, 1%~~~, 2% (Dark Pit)

Forward Tilt - 7% (Pit) - 7% (Dark Pit)

Down Tilt - 6% (Pit) - 6% (Dark Pit)

Up Tilt - 2%, 3%, 5% (Pit) - 2%, 3%, 5% (Dark Pit)

Forward Smash - 5.1556%, 10.1556% (Pit) - 5.1556%, 10.1556% (Dark Pit)
Fully Charged Forward Smash - 7%, 14% (Pit) - 7%, 14% (Dark Pit)

Down Smash - 12.3334% (Pit) - 12.3334% (Dark Pit)
Fully Charged Down Smash - 16.5% (Pit) - 16.5% (Dark Pit)

Up Smash - 2%, 3%, 8.334% (Pit) - 2%, 3%, 8.334% (Dark Pit)
Fully Charged Up Smash - 2%, 4%, 11% (Pit) - 2%, 4%, 11% (Dark Pit)

Neutral Air - 0.6% x7 Hits, 4% (8% Total) (Pit) - 0.6% x7 Hits, 4% (8% Total) (Dark Pit)

Forward Air - 1.5%, 1.5%, 4% (Pit) - 1.5%, 1.5%, 4% (Dark Pit)

Back Air - 12% (Pit) - 12% (Dark Pit)

Down Air - 10% (Pit) - 10% (Dark Pit)

Up Air - 2%, 2%, 2%, 2%, 2% (Pit) - 2%, 2%, 2%, 2%, 2% (Dark Pit)

Neutral Special (Arrows) - 3.334% (Uncharged), 8.5% (Fully Charged) (Pit) - 3.8% (Uncharged), 10.5% (Fully Charged) (Dark Pit)

Side Special (Arms) - 11% (Pit) - 11.5% (Dark Pit)

Grab / Pummel: - 2% (Pit) - 2% (Dark Pit)

Forward Throw - 6%, 4% (Pit) - 6%, 4% (Dark Pit)

Back Throw - 8% (Pit) - 8% (Dark Pit)

Down Throw - 2%, 4% (Pit) - 2%, 4% (Dark Pit)

Up Throw - 4%, 7% (Pit) - 4%, 7% (Dark Pit)


While I can't speak for Knock-Back angles, (I know their Side-B have different angles) Dark Pit is truly a carbon copy of Pit bar their Special Attacks having slightly different damage outputs and arrow control.

On the bright side, if you know how to use Dark Pit, you know how to use Pit just as well.

Interesting, thank you for the effort. I really appreciate it, you are probably the first to do an in-depth break-down. I am surprised that there are not more overt differences, perhaps their frame-data will be different?

 

[relaxedexcorcist]

I hope you all love numbers! Since no one else bothered, I come from the Lucina forum bearing data on both Pit and Dark Pit.
@ Neo Zero This might be something to have in the OP of the thread since the Pits differences seem to be a common question.

Foreword: So some characters in this game have decimals in their damage numbers; Pit and Dark Pit are two such characters. This means that there's a hidden damage value adding up when you do damage (training mode will only register whole numbers in the data feed-back it gives so it's easy to miss) but the most important thing is that these decimals affect Knock Back (we think at least) meaning Pit and Dark Pit get a little extra distance on-hit than characters doing the same whole numbers of damage.

One last thing that's important to clear up beforehand, Dark Pit isn't any slower or faster than Pit. Their animations are all the same.

Anyway, here are Pit and Dark Pit's Damage Outputs:

Jab 1 - 2%, 2%, 5% (Pit) - 2%, 2%, 5% (Dark Pit)

Jab 2 (Rapid) - 2%, 2%, 1%~~~, 2% (Pit) - 2%, 2%, 1%~~~, 2% (Dark Pit)

Forward Tilt - 7% (Pit) - 7% (Dark Pit)

Down Tilt - 6% (Pit) - 6% (Dark Pit)

Up Tilt - 2%, 3%, 5% (Pit) - 2%, 3%, 5% (Dark Pit)

Forward Smash - 5.1556%, 10.1556% (Pit) - 5.1556%, 10.1556% (Dark Pit)
Fully Charged Forward Smash - 7%, 14% (Pit) - 7%, 14% (Dark Pit)

Down Smash - 12.3334% (Pit) - 12.3334% (Dark Pit)
Fully Charged Down Smash - 16.5% (Pit) - 16.5% (Dark Pit)

Up Smash - 2%, 3%, 8.334% (Pit) - 2%, 3%, 8.334% (Dark Pit)
Fully Charged Up Smash - 2%, 4%, 11% (Pit) - 2%, 4%, 11% (Dark Pit)

Neutral Air - 0.6% x7 Hits, 4% (8% Total) (Pit) - 0.6% x7 Hits, 4% (8% Total) (Dark Pit)

Forward Air - 1.5%, 1.5%, 4% (Pit) - 1.5%, 1.5%, 4% (Dark Pit)

Back Air - 12% (Pit) - 12% (Dark Pit)

Down Air - 10% (Pit) - 10% (Dark Pit)

Up Air - 2%, 2%, 2%, 2%, 2% (Pit) - 2%, 2%, 2%, 2%, 2% (Dark Pit)

Neutral Special (Arrows) - 3.334% (Uncharged), 8.5% (Fully Charged) (Pit) - 3.8% (Uncharged), 10.5% (Fully Charged) (Dark Pit)

Side Special (Arms) - 11% (Pit) - 11.5% (Dark Pit)

Grab / Pummel: - 2% (Pit) - 2% (Dark Pit)

Forward Throw - 6%, 4% (Pit) - 6%, 4% (Dark Pit)

Back Throw - 8% (Pit) - 8% (Dark Pit)

Down Throw - 2%, 4% (Pit) - 2%, 4% (Dark Pit)

Up Throw - 4%, 7% (Pit) - 4%, 7% (Dark Pit)


While I can't speak for Knock-Back angles, (I know their Side-B have different angles) Dark Pit is truly a carbon copy of Pit bar their Special Attacks having slightly different damage outputs and arrow control.

On the bright side, if you know how to use Dark Pit, you know how to use Pit just as well.

Thank you and good job! Finally someone got the numbers.

But man, I dunno if I wanna call this faithful to canon or just rushed...

 

[Banjodorf]

So, wait a sec, are they exactly the same? I'd heard Dark Pit has different knockback angles/what have you somewhere, but I'm not sure.

(I mean, aside from the one attack where Pitoo does .5 more %.)