i cant find that game...wtf i want to play it
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Too many Pokemon?
- Thread starter Dojo999
- Start date
Mikau et al
Smash Journeyman
I hate Pokemon, but at least it deserves to have this sort of representation (I mean, what else is important to that series other than the Pokemon themselves?).
Kirby, on the other hand, I cannot forgive.
Kirby, on the other hand, I cannot forgive.
Tiwaz
Smash Cadet
That video is awesome. Almost as cool as the Snorlax guy.
I don't think it's too many Pokemon characters. It's only four (or six) characters.
I don't think it's too many Pokemon characters. It's only four (or six) characters.
PsychoIncarnate
The Eternal Will of the Swarm
Well then, you just suck
Mikau et al
Smash Journeyman
Dost I smell Kirbyfanboyishness?
GreatClayMonkey
Smash Lord
can't see the vid but maybe you don't know that pokemon blue/red version is the best selling game of all time i think pokemon is pretty important to nintendo
antipokemonguy
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2007
- Messages
- 23
*cough*
sdasdg
FrozenRoy
Smash Lord
Hey, it's back, the one and the only: FrozenRoy's Comment and Set Corner, Inspired by WoMF! Warrior of Many Faces, mai boi!
So, how does this work? Real simply, actually: I take sets and comments, I link to the set, spoiler the commentso this is isn't ridiculous long, and now bam you can look at this to see all the comments on sets easy! Here's an example!
[collapse="Commenter612"]COMMENT BLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEH[/collapse]
As a warning, XenForo is sorta messed, so sometimes you might see it duplicating spoilers at random. I think I may have found a way to avoid this, but if not, you'll just have to deal for now. Please also note that I will not be keeping images or text colors, for the most part: I make this by keeping a Notepad I copy it too and adding in images and text colors is a huge amount of time to invest when doing so. Let's get to it!
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[collapse="Katapultar"]I quite enjoyed the appeal behind a move that makes your Specials uber powerful for a price, giving El Tigre an interesting boss feel to his set. I’ve always had the feeling that you’re an adventurous MYM’er, willing to explore concepts that would be overly daring and ambitious even for veterans. What’s especially potent here is that the buff is gained through a Thunder-esque hitbox that could enable an interesting combo, just that there isn’t any real clarification on the knockback. That lack of clarification is something that bogs down the set, I believe, largely in how many of the simple moves’ are supposed to work in with the playstyle. Mainly bringing it up here because there’s no playstyle section at the end of the set.
I get that Tigre is supposed to be a fast combo character given his speed and some of what is written in the moves. I can appreciate the main Neutral Special for disrupting approaches and creating an opportunity for you to approach. I also think the Side Special is pretty cool, just that it only seems effective as a retreating move that temporarily controls the ground you moved along and doesn’t flow all that well. I’m alright with how the Thunder Mode works well from a distance and would cope well with the initial knockback from the lightning, just that it doesn’t have a lot of synergy with the initial rushdown combo game.[/collapse]
[collapse="BridgesWithTurtles"]El Jefe
I can see that what you're trying to make here is a rushdown character with a bit of a stance gimmick. El Jefe largely succeeds in being a basic rushdown set, but I'm not sure the thunder specials really have room here. Getting hit just once makes Jefe lose his buff, and I think it's just far too restrictive to be of any use because of that. This would encourage the player to simply restrict themselves to Jefe's more efficient default stance. Jefe's main playstyle focus seems to be an interesting "stay clean" approach to rushdown, in which his goal is to keep himself from being hit as much as possible. His standards and aerials largely accomplish this feat, and Electrical Traps would play well into this concept if the requirements for keeping your thunder sword weren't so demanding, but overall, it is a move balanced well enough to space reliably most of the time. Jefe's thunder mode really should play more into his keep-away game, I feel, so that it's actually worth making use of. Losing the ability to access standards and smashes, let alone so much as jump, gimps the tiger hard, which is sad because his standards and smashes are highly effective at playing keep-away and spacing effectively. El Jefe's a solid first entry for the contest, but I hope it's an indicator of better things to come, both from you and others. That being said, in my opinion, it's your strongest set of the three.[/collapse]
[collapse="crazyal02"]Most Definitely Not Tai Lung
And so we have the first set of the contest, El Jefe by Bionichute. First off, I like the idea of using Dspec to segue into a Thunder KO move (but I was thinking of using a similar mechanic in a Demise set so I hate you forever), plus the lightning strike itself could open up some interesting combo opportunities... right? I don't know, because the set has a tendency to not specify knockback values. It kinda bugs me that Fsmash takes 1.5 seconds to fully charge. Landing a fully charged smash is already pretty difficult (even in Brawl), so I feel that nerfing the moves KO potential a bit instead may have been a better choice; what use is a KO move if you can't land it? Anyways, he seems to be characterized as a comboer, but it's hard to tell without specified knockback or a playstyle summary. And no Final Smash, 0/10[/collapse]
[collapse="FrozenRoy"]El Jefe Gordon
El Jefe has some nice ideas mixed in here: The different modes of the fireballs are interesting and adds a bit to them and I actually like the Up Special as an idea, though I do not feel the moveset properly builds moves around it to take advantage of the shockwave or, say, the way it makes a hitbox above and below him in the air.
The Down Special is both where this set has a cool idea, I like the idea of a Thunder move that can change your moveset if you get hit by it and yet can dodge it, and the moves themselves are actually fairly interesting. However, it has two major problems with it: First off, standards and smashes are banned during it, which just reduces your options too much given the payoff of 3 alternate specials and it is downright bizarre he can still use aerials if you're banning, but they really should be kept anyway because part of what makes the move awesome would be using the new Specials and stuff with standards/smashes. Secondly, this move lasts for a single Special and then goes into a cooldown, which could work with another move similiar to this but the way it is presented in the set and the way it wants to be really would rather have a hard time limit or some other way to deal with it. Especially since it also goes away if El Jefe is hit.
Personally, I would give El Jefe new standards, smashes and aerials (El Jefe oddly keeps his dual sword aerials when he uses the Thunder Sword, despite the fact he can use his aerials) on the move, increase the time limit but make it so it can only be removed by the time limit going out or El Jefe taking out a fairly decently sized amount of damage, with a cooldown still.
Aside from that, El Jefe doesn't have much to him: The rest of the moveset generally consists of short moves that work only into quite a bare playstyle, though I did like the Down Tilt. In general, I feel El Jefe needed more thought put into him, but that he could be a good moveset if the Down Special was properly adjusted and then the rest of the moveset was given more thought into what kind of playstyle would flow from his Specials: My guess would be a quicker striking moveset that can transition into constricting traps and harder hitting moves with his Down Special.[/collapse]
[collapse="n88_2004"]El Jefe isn't all bad, but I was a little disappointed in how it kinda petered out. The Specials introduce some concepts that could certainly add up to something, but the set loses momentum afterward ("El Jefe slashes forward with his claws, in a semi-generic Jab attack animation"? You could at least commit to calling it generic!). I like the way the Down Special reduces him to a lumbering brute with only a handful of attacks, though unfortunately the moveset doesn't really capitalize on it. Admittedly, that is a difficult thing to capitalize on in a largely physical fighter like Mr. Jefe, since it cuts off access to most of his attacks.
Jefe's got a few balance hang-ups; why would this guy ever dash anywhere when he's got his Forward Special? And why does he have an attack that does 18% and combos into itself? In fact, those Aerials are dishing out crazy damage across the board. And there are a few weird in-game logic bits like Jefe's lightning going through platforms and Jefe having two "spin around with Thunder swords" moves with completely different effects. (Though that latter may be on the source material, not on you, for all I know) The biggest issue here, to me, is the lack of a larger vision for the character; the set gives Jefe a few fun things to do, but it doesn't really come together for me.
And am I the only one around here who's bothered by a South American tiger? Tigers aren't from South America! Maybe he's an immigrant and I'm animal-racist or whatever.[/collapse]
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[collapse="Katapultar"]It's interesting to see characters from the same series use the same concept. Toothpick's normal moves feel a bit more interesting than El Tigre's, namely in concept as well as animation/character-wise (though I'm a little conflicted about the proppy throws, even if they do add character). His extra Specials, however, don't feel at that appealing in comparison, being more standardfare in execution. Of course there's the idea of size manipulation that affects the standard moves, though it's not addressed in any of the moves. I think I slightly prefer El Tigre to this set if because there isn't that much playstyle that surfaces through, though I could understand why others would prefer this set instead.[/collapse]
[collapse="BridgesWithTurtles"]Sheriff Toothpick
You have a solid spacing-focused projectile character here, with an overall statistical composure that works interestingly with this archetype. More character comes out in this set's writing than in the others, I feel. Adding disjoints to a great number of Toothpick's moves makes him somewhat unique and obviously leads well into the intended playstyle. The electrical field move is a unique and interesting one that adds a great deal of zoning prowess to the character, but its infinite range is troubling when one considers how difficult it is for opponents lacking projectiles to beat back this move without getting hit. Moves like Back Aerial are a nice sight to see, adding extra uses for some of Toothpick's attacks while also contributing to his "my range is better than yours" fighting style. The use of the props in the throws doesn't bug me much, but the grab game and aerials so seem to be where the set loses a lot of focus, and it feels like you practically gave up at that point.[/collapse]
[collapse="crazyal02"]Most Definitely Not Dillon
Next up is Sheriff Toothpick, also by Bionichute. Electric Traps are a neat idea (but then you stole my Sylux idea. YOU SHALL DIEEE). They seem really useful for stage control, yet isn't overpowered as the traps are destructible. Oh, and we have a mechanic very similar to El Jefe's at play here too, but standards being usable deviates it pretty well. Meanwhile, the Giant Side Special is interesting and all, but it seems pretty OP against characters with no projectiles, as Toothpick can just keep spamming tornadoes, possible infiniting them. On the other hand, if the move has cooldown, or only one tornado can be onscreen at a time, this isn't an issue. We have the long Fsmash thing again, too. I do like the characterization present in the set, especially in the throws.[/collapse]
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[collapse="Katapultar"]Hmmm... I see some comparisons to El Tigre within this set, namely the ice trail Side Special and Up Special elemental shield. I'm also starting to recognize character traits that contrast with the way the character fights, like El Tigre with his strategies, Toothpick with his gold and Grizz with his paintings. Of course it can't be helped if these traits never came to surface in battle in their original source material.
Grizz probably has the best set of Specials of all your 3 sets, but they prove to be a somewhat confusing read. From what I understand, the Neutral Special leaves Grizz in midair after using it due to creating the shockwaves by jumping off the ground. Also, ice blocks are created but will automatically go off the edge anyway, reason why they’re not elaborated upon to begin with. The ice blocks are then brought back up in the Down Special, however, but it almost sounds as though you were referring to the icicles in the same move rather than actual ice blocks… or the rocks themselves actually being ice blocks. I assume the rocks act as basic walls you can stand upon?
Grizz’s Standards are a lot more interesting than the other 2 sets, and the idea of having your moves change on ice is a cool one, even if a few of the interactions don’t seem like they’d even need ice. On that note, ice should probably last a bit longer, maybe 10 seconds at most, and really it’d be much more effective if Grizz simply created the ice ahead of him so he could actually exploit it for approaches, rather than creating it while moving along the ground. Maybe he should get to slide farther when he slides on ice through his Side Special? As a way of refreshing the ice and retreating from opponents, maybe?
The only real things I have to say against the set is that it gets quite weak after the Smashes and that it doesn’t seem too conscious about the walls it can create in the Down Special, these contradicting with Grizz being able to slide around and generally not being exploited as much as they could be. Seriously, it’d be fun if you could paint on the walls you create! Maybe even push them around along ice. Certainly a potential set with its toolset, just that it could do with some more self-awareness to become a great work of art.
Also, 16% average on your sets' Jabs seems a bit too high. I would say 10-12% at the very most, namely given Jabs are supposed to be quick and that they randomly deal nearly twice the damage of other tilts. The Smashes should also probably deal 5-7% less, maybe even 10%, as 42% for a fully charged Smash is completely insane when their kill percentages are much lower than even the strongest Brawl Smash Attacks.[/collapse]
[collapse="ForwardArrow"]The Grizz
Warlord's already talked about how hilarious this character is, and in some ways fitting to MYM(the post modern artwork bit is perfect). The actual set, while failing to really take advantage of the character's potential, at least does some interesting things. While its not immediately obvious until you watch the boss fight that there are ice blocks under the boulders, being able to knock them around is pretty fun, and while the stuff with him just getting better on ice isn't super inspired, it at least provides any flow/variety to his moves. Where the set really falters is the grabs and aerials. I know you have stated you like Up Aerial, but it really contributes nothing to his gameplan and comes across as very absurd. Might work if the paint lingered around and fell anyway, but floating in the air because of a switch on his brush that doesn't actually exist is stupid.
Aside from that, I feel you really should've gone out of your way to have more fun with this character. All you do is give him ways to extend his range on ice, when you set up the actually somewhat interesting boulder pits and icicles on Down Special, and I wish you did more than just DSmash's big ice wave for interactions that aren't just a random change to the move while on ice. I will say I probably prefer it to Sheep Mage and Pompy, largely on the basis that the set up itself is less boring than Pompy's batting around a projectile and it lacks the large amount of stun Sheep Mage had.[/collapse]
[collapse="BridgesWithTurtles"]The Grizz
This is probably an unpopular opinion, but is anyone really surprised when I say that anymore? I actually think that this may be your weakest of the three, though it does have its merits. While The Grizz is certainly the most ambitious of the trio, it toys with a concept or two, and mostly, the execution is hit-or-miss, depending on the move or scenario. As others have said, I have no idea what's going on with the rocky wall, but I'm not sure it really meshes well with the set anyway. The Grizz has some problems with numbers as well, with insanely off-the-chart damage percentages that just really go too far beyond what is necessary. Most of The Grizz's ice interactions are fairly questionable, and don't seem to make much sense. A few interactions, such as Dsmash and to an extent Fsmash, make sense, and these moves are among the better and more creative tools in The Grizz's arsenal. Most of the interactions, however, seem to make no sense, relegated to things such as generic buffs or completely changing the entire animation altogether. The Grizz has some great offensive tools at his disposal, but for the most part, plays like a defensive character who's more effective using his ice to move around quickly and throw up ice shards and icicles to defend himself with. While the two styles are not incongruous, I think they could stand to use a little more integration with one another to make The Grizz a little more cohesive as a whole.[/collapse]
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[collapse="ForwardArrow"]Chou-Chou
I knew this set would be over the top as soon as I scrolled through it and I was not disappointed. The peon ball, the sheer variety of minion types, being able to stack them into a tower handled in a much more elaborate way than in Salvatore, being able to kill literally any construct(in a surprisingly balanced way at that), summoning tanks and the freakishly powerful variations of the Peon Ball, it sounds like completely insane stuff and frankly, it kind of is. This is the only set that can kill Strangelove within reason by exploiting a factor of the Neutrality Zones(nothing saying you can't attack the Zone itself), which while not truly all that relevant to the set's quality is hilarious.
Now on the subject of how the actual set works, its surprisingly well thought out despite all the insanity. Moe Kill actually doesn't break the game against MYM sets due to taking longer to use on more powerful constructs, while simultaneously creating minions that can create some insanely interesting set ups in and of themselves. The set does not hesitate to play off them too and is able to reasonably create most of them even if the foe doesn't provide the fodder, albeit I really do wish the Red Flame and Cannon variations were possible to create within the set itself and not relying on the foe to give them certain things to make, as those were two of my favorite types(hell the Cannon one was played off amazingly in the tower version of the DSmash). I'm also pleasantly surprised that the Peon Ball is handled in such a way that it feels fair despite being so powerful, while again contributing to the massively versatile set ups she has.
Obviously, the set isn't perfect, some of the inputs are handled in rather strange ways(the tower summon is an arbitrary command that is activated on a second tap of Up Tilt? Alright then), frankly a lot of the moves come down to spacing albeit in some fairly cool ways, the Up Smash coming to mind as one of the worst examples, and the grab game is disappointing in comparison to how well the rest of the set manages to flow, but even there the amount of true filler is nearly non-existant. It also comes across as tacky, but only really on the surface, given how much of the extremely bizarre stuff in the set seems to actually come from the game and honestly on this character the things that don't(usually involving the great minion towers) still feel like they make sense and they make the tower game insanely fun anyway. Probably the actual biggest complaint I have with the set, honestly, is that the melee game is very lacking compared to something like Funny Valentine, largely just following up into the minion creating special or just spacing people, which is again handled well in Nair but not really as good on the other inputs. Still, I didn't expect this set to be perfection or anything, and hell it came out a lot better than I expected given I thought there was no way you could reasonably balance some of the mechanics, which you ended up doing a fine job of. Great job on this one Kat.[/collapse]
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[collapse="ForwardArrow"]Shinobu
Is it becoming trendy nowadays to try to do duplicates without mindgames being heavily involved? If so its a trend I like because the mindgame duplicate sets of old are terrible now, though I'm not really sure they've done the best at playing off copies of themselves. At the very least, Shinobu does better than something like Blake with the moves being more heavily designed with duplicates in mind, using them in some potentially fairly intricate ways in moves like the Up Special and DThrow, and the other ways they're played off are still decent, if occasionally awkward in the case of something like Nair. Ultimately though I didn't see much overall flow, it seemed to really just amount to a slightly eccentric combo set, and I wish the moves felt more interconnected beyond just acknowledging the existance of a mechanic, its similar flow to the Grizz in a way but handled much better. Given I'm a horrible person who had the audacity to vote Blake I can't say I dislike this set, but I still wish there was more of an overall gameplan than there is here.
By the way the Forward Smash is horrible, I can understand wanting a way to unsummon the duplicates but it is very poorly handled. The trend of bad Forward Smashes is going to continue too...[/collapse]
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[collapse="Katapultar"]What's this, a combination between your past and present self? It's like looking into a time capsule. I admire your courage for posting such and not being worried about it being bashed upon.
Tracking bullets that can harm you were and still would be interesting, just that being able to fire them nigh infinitely seems like it'd be too extreme and would provide you with no incentive to take the risk of pressuring opponents being pursued by them. Maybe you could still fire more bullets, just that they don't attempt to track unless the currents ones disappear. Based on the U-tilt, it seems as though Astamon has plenty of unique bullet potential and perhaps could have had a bit of variation in his projectile Specials, had you seriously attempted this set in the present day. Knife obviously feels very wonky, all the more so when it feels too central and opponents will be running around to avoid your bullets anyway. I'm sure you wouldn't have put the move in the set if it wasn't one of Astamon's main attacks, but even digging the knife deeper into opponents doesn't feel right for Digimon... not that I've kept track of the series since Season 4. Also, I'm guessing that the Final Smash is meant to be a joke and not actually something Astamon does in the series... because if it was, I'd love to see a picture of him doing that. Seriously.
Astamon could be good if edited seriously, but it's alright if you just wanna have a set there. Having more sets is never a bad thing.[/collapse]
[collapse="ForwardArrow"]Astamon
Every set in this block has a pink or purple color scheme, I'm starting to think MYM needs to tone down its flamboyance a little bit. With that being said, for a set made in MYM12 this honestly isn't that bad, the concept of the projectiles that endlessly chase the opponent to potentially set up some variety of interesting bullet hell, whilst still being capable of hurting Astamon if misued, is a good one, and the specials and standards play off it in a decently flowing fashion, if a bit boring. The later half of the set has less substance to it but it at least is still trying to flow, though its very easy to see how late at night it was written to be honest.
The real stand out bad move here is Forward Smash, and I've seen this kind of flow used and considered acceptable at the time but when you bother to think about it for a second hitting the Z-planes is a horrible concept that I'm glad is very dead now. So here we have a move that only hits the Z-planes attached to a smash, meaning a foe can dodge it simply by standing still. On a smash. That's pretty horrible and really sticks out in a set that, while sometimes dull or overpowering, never has any particularly terrible moves. If you bothered to take that out this is an actually decent bullet hell set, but that pretty much defeats the point of bullet hell to hit the background and makes it far far too easy.[/collapse]
[collapse="n88_2004"]Astamon's up first in the Froy series, and I'm not going to spend too long on this one. Partially because its age makes it hard to criticize, and partially because I've still got eight more Froy sets to read and comment. There are some good concepts in here, but it does feel a bit rough (and maybe a little over-powered at points). There are also some instances where the moveset seems to be trying a bit too hard; forced creativity is an easy enemy to fall prey to, and it rears its ugly head in a few moves (that Back Throw is the main guilty party here). The knife mechanics also feel a bit strange to me, though I suppose MYM12 gave us worse.
There are some things to like here, though, as I mentioned before. I like the way Astamon really puts the foe to running, and how a canny runner might turn that against him. The homing bullets are a pretty cool centerpiece, and that Final Smash is a super attack after my own heart.[/collapse]
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[collapse="Katapultar"]Nice to see you back, PixelPasta! Bob Ross was a rather lovely entry for your first attempt, so Pennybags should be an interesting experience. I forgot how to play Monopoly or how you win, though I'm sure that won't have any bearing on the set, no?
First off, just a little nitpick: this guy's monstrously heavy! Like, seriously, having a weight of 94 would make you nigh-unkillable. Mostly pointing this out because Bob Ross actually had the same typo, but it's nothing that has any sort of impact on the set and I can understand you meant to say "4" and not "94".
Pennybags reminds of me Profiteur, a set posted last contest that also revolves around a stout, plump guy who loves the green stuff. Those 2 would probably get along great. Anyway, the mechanic is rather daring and I think the Down Special is a good way to emboss it, but there are numerous things that need to be addressed with the overall balance of the set. For example, $10 a second in a property seems too low of a profit, and would be much better if it were $50 at most. Also, it doesn’t appear as though you have to pay for any of these properties! Is he getting them for free? Maybe you should have to pay $100 to initially put down a property, but you can have as many of them out as you like, gradually building into a big set-up that exploits big crowds. That’d be like, 6 properties at most on a stage like Battlefield (3 for the main stage, 3 for each platform).
I don’t really like how the Neutral Special automatically takes all your money for the attack, but that’s something that could actually easily be alleviated simply by making it that you charge the attack and are able to do so for greater periods for the more money you have – in turn covering the lag that Pennybags suffers from greater loads of money. The attack could also do with its charge time massive cut down to like, a second, and for the attack to be twice as powerful, as it’s clear in later moves that you’re willing to throw down moves with mass power behind them… even stronger than the strongest attack from this move. Also, maybe a fully charged moneybag could be a OHKO. This is definitely a move I’d really want to see changed.
The standard moves have some good thought behind them as far as the playstyle goes, but their kill percentages are incredibly low, 200% sort of being the base “low” kill percentage in my opinion, whereas something like 120% would be strong, or at least as far as tilts go. Some of the moves that are meant to keep foes in the properties are a little too extreme, both the F-tilt and D-tilt for being able to keep opponents confined for seconds. D-tilt more so, which would be much better if it just knocked foes into prone with a 33% or so chance when pitfalling is generally frowned upon in the community due to being unfun, especially given it’s an old man doing it. This also applies to the rest of the moves that bury.
While we’re on the standard moves, the Smashes all look like fun moves. The F-Smash and U-Smash should probably be swapped, however, given the latter seems as though it would be much more effective against opponents next to you when taking your properties into account. The U-Smash would also be much more fun if you put in some crazy effects and removed all the stunning/burying, like forcing opponents to pay more tax when they’re in your properties.
Overall, I don’t think the money is exploited as much in the set as I’d like it to be, namely because it doesn’t really circulate and just stays in Pennybag’s pockets until he uses his Neutral Special, and Down Special is the only real way to get money. The $1000 bonus also doesn’t manifest all that much in a lot of the moves. Another thing I reckon would be cool to implement would be bonuses for certain attacks when you use them in your own properties, namely because opponents may try to destroy your properties by standing next to them so you don’t get the bonus.
This is a good effort which could be better with some polishing. If anything, I don’t think you went overboard, but rather you didn’t go far enough![/collapse]
[collapse="Junahu"]Rich Uncle Pennybags:
Hey there PixelPasta. I'm the MYMer who wrote Profiteur in the previous MYM. As Kat may have already mentioned, it's a moveset that operates around a similar concept, so it would be worth your time to go and read it. Not because I think Profiteur is any better or whatever (In fact, I believe that Pennybags has the far superior core mechanic), but simply to see how someone else approaches the same idea.
So, rich Uncle Pennybags has a very solid foundation for his moveset. You place houses in key areas, to penalise opponents who utilise those areas of the stage (by buffing your money reserves, rather than hurting them directly). It's a clever idea that gives the foe plenty of options for creative counterplay, and forces them to recognise the tangible value of the locations you choose to house. They can weigh their options, decide whether it is more economic in the long run to ignore the houses temporarily in order to get a better foothold on you. Or they can play around the locations that are 'locked off', or even play counter to Pennybags' strategem by destroying his property. It's really interesting stuff, even if the buffs you're working towards are largely damage/knockback increases that aren't entertaining to a casual reader.
For most of Pennybags' attacks, they only seem to benefit from his money, if he has the literal maximum he can carry. It does make the foe more wary of his golden-form, and that's good. It's a big attack buff that foes can shut down by being hyper aggressive in order to knock a few dollars out of Pennybags (and in return, Pennybags can just earn a couple extra dollars in order to reattain his golden status)
But there's no sense of a growing threat, because if you're even $1 short of the $1000 goal, most of his attacks behave the same as if Pennybags had $0. Not every player would appreciate this all-or-nothing approach, and they especially wouldn't relish the idea of grinding $1000 every single stock. I think Pennybags needs some kind of small buff for reaching $500, so that players are not forced to totally engage with the money mechanic in order to feel its benefits.
I also think that the houses you place should eventually disappear on their own (refunding their construction costs if they weren't destroyed by the opponent), in order to encourage the player to alter the layout of their properties over time.
The opponent also needs better incentive to destroy your houses, because currently they would have to use projectiles in order to do it without being taxed. If the foe can't destroy a house without giving you enough money to build more houses, then there's no reason for them to even try. Perhaps the houses could stop taking taxes for a second or two whenever they are attacked?[/collapse]
[collapse="ForwardArrow"]Uncle Pennybags
And I already know your ulterior motive for this, you think my ranking of Pennybags is going to drive the poor guy off, and frankly I do feel sorry for ranking it so low and I can respect that part of your worries. The fact is its the awkward second set for many newcomers that ends up much worse than their first, as they try to do more ambitious things but without a grasp of how to properly balance concepts like that. Such is the problem with Pennybags, because for all the effort you put in and it actually does show, it does some things that are ultimately kind of mistaken. While there are some iffy numbers on the Specials being either way too high or way too low(Neutral Special is nigh unusable with that much lag and having it increase with more money and expending all your money, the train is an insanely good projectile at max cash and really powerful compared to the other honestly rather lacking incentives).
Honestly the more important issue to me is the luck mechanics throughout the moveset. I can appreciate some of that as a tribute to Monopoly, but generally the less luck in somewhat competitive games like Smash Brothers, even if its frequently played as a party game. And aside from that, its used in a rather poorly handled way. Attaching a random chance of a long stun to any given move is very annoying, stun in general is usually something you want to avoid when thinking up creative effects for an attack, and having random multiple second pitfalls crop up from time to time lets Mr. Monopoly usually do some fairly insane stuff as he has any extra benefit to that time over most Brawl characters. The example that landed this set its place in 1 star is the Up Smash, which can pitfall people no matter where they are at any given time on a 10% chance, simply by holding a ticket up in the air. Its just very painful to play against when it actually works and comes across as a very bizarre form of camping when it doesn't.
Aside from that some of the monopoly mechanics are represented rather strangely. I don't really think game pieces belong in the set period as that's getting a bit meta for an actual fighting moveset for the character, though with how proppy some characters are in Brawl I can see the reasoning. However using them as soccer balls is rather bizarre, and they don't feel at all suited to a Down Smash when they lack a real hitbox.
I'm not against the development I see in the moveset, you have a core mechanic you interact off a lot and the main problem is just you didn't quite know how to work on it. With less luck mechanics and less stun I'm sure whatever set you make after this one will be a lot more likeable, we all run into a few pitfalls early in our career.
Edit: So apparently I missed that at the end of the move it doesn't actually cause those effects unless the card hits the opponent. The move is still bad, but it doesn't make as big of a mistake as I thought.[/collapse]
[collapse="JamieTheAuraUser"]@PixelPasta: I think one of the biggest problems with your set, aside from a random chance of stun or pitfall being rather dangerous and the neutral special being really wonky and just generally unusably slow, is that the money = power mechanic isn't fluid enough. While I do agree that having an additional boost for being at $1000 is great, I think otherwise it should work a little more like Lucario's aura mechanic, and be a gradual, consistent boost instead of having specific milestones. Also, I think it would be good to have the neutral special be chargeable instead of a guaranteed use of all your money with set startup, where charging costs money and you can't charge it more than you have money for. It might also be interesting to have other special attacks that cost money to use/charge, or maybe have his Smash Attacks drain his money reserve very slightly when charged. That way, there's more of a risk vs. reward thing going on, rather than just "amass money to win".[/collapse]
[collapse="Daviddreamcatcha"]RICH UNCLE PENNYBAGS
This is just personal opinion, but I really feel like you should've just called him "Mr. Monopoly". That's what his name has been retconned to nowadays, and honestly, it probably fits the set more with how you're intent on representing the entire game in his moveset.
And honestly? I wish you represented it more. Outside the specials and smashes, you choose to exclusively stick to 3 props. Mr. Monopoly strikes me as a very proppy character - almost like a cross between Game and Watch and Wario. You could've had him use the game pieces for individual moves instead of the get out of jail free card drawings (the jail could've been a grab where you lock them in a jail cell! and they have to attack it to break out! perfect for racking up property tax!), there's a lot to pull from here. It might not seem like this would contribute to a lot in terms of actual gameplay, but there are many times where the moveset falls into the trap of "this move will keep them here or this move will push them there", which honestly, would've likely been reduced with the addition of a more creative arsenal. There's plenty of potential that could've been exploited there, but it's a miss and we'll move on from that.
As many have mentioned, a gradual approach to the money mechanic would've greatly helped this moveset out a bit. More importantly, I feel like the money should've been a more contributing factor to his overall gameplan, allowing you to advance on from the generic physical buffs to a more creative approach to his buffs. Yes, it's useful for him to have more money because it'll increase his attack power. But there are so many more creative things you could've done here that would've captured the feeling of the game. Why not convert houses into hotels to have them take over more of the stage? Upgrade your tokens! Use your money to rig the chance cards and the dice!
It seems as though you were worried about containing yourself, mentioning the smashes might be too over-the-top. Going over-the-top, especially with a character like this, is what will get you big points in MYM. As it currently stands, Mr. Monopoly has a very good idea for a moveset - it's just that it's execution should've been done much better for it to be good, but hey, you still have a ways to go. I'd love to see you remix this moveset in the future when you have more ideas regarding playstyle and creativity, as the concept is excellent and both the concept and the iconic character could use a proper look from a cleaner lense.[/collapse]
[collapse="BridgesWithTurtles"]Rich Uncle Pennybags
I know that this set's been discussed to hell and back, but I wish to share my thoughts nonetheless. Pennybags, first of all, is a remarkable improvement over Bob Ross. He actually has a cohesive playstyle, and while the prop use is still rather heavy, it's handled mostly effectively, especially in consideration of the character. I can tell that you spent a great deal of thought devising the playstyle here, and your work indeed bears fruit. Pennybags has possibly the most efficient core formula for a monetary system that I've seen in MYM. The execution, however, is a bit sloppy. As has been said, money doesn't seem to circulate with this move. It's of little chance that you'll ever be knocked back down to Silver status once you've attained $1000, as the housing tax brings in more money more quickly than Pennybags ever has the threat of losing. There isn't a major sense of risk or reward here, so the playstyle ends up becoming a case of gradual buffs...and that's it. Pennybags goes bankrupt when killed, but a competent player will often find themselves working themselves back up to Gold in no time flat. I can see that you diligently took to heart what others have said before me, and I'm very glad to see you made well thought-out alterations to the set that fix many of Pennybags' issues. However, I think that more could be done to increase the cash flow, as it's still too easy for Pennybags to stockpile money.
Pennybags also substantially shows your improvement because it shows a much stronger grasp of gameplay, incorporating effects such as tripping to tie into how Pennybags' other moves work. So many of Pennybags' moves having a chance to trip is a solid way to work with his area of effect playstyle, and it's appropriately in-character as well, what with all of the chances and luck reliance. It's good that you toned down the random factor on his smashes, however, making the set mostly reliable to play with. I actually think the set could've used a bit more prop-usage, considering the source material, but it's perfectly fine in that department as is. As a bonus, the "Rising Profits" recovery move is hilarious and one of the most creative recoveries I've ever seen. It's also excellent for how it is tied into Pennybags' profits, rewarding him for playing well. However, I can't help but consider that this move may be one of the reasons why it's so easy for Pennybags to hold onto his money, as it only makes him harder to kill the more ahead he is, and thus keeping him and his money safe even longer.
In the end, I do find this to be an above average moveset, and with a few minor tweaks, it would certainly be worthy of anyone's vote. I'm glad that you came back to participate again, and I'm looking forward to seeing what else you may have up your sleeve for us in the future.[/collapse]
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[collapse="Katapultar"]Forgoing the usual casual writing style at the start, Lore is something different. The Specials may seem bare-bones and totally boring, maybe even all the individual moves themselves, but they're made worlds more interesting with the multi-arm mechanic that lets you use different attacks at the same time - a mechanic I believe few past sets have had the gall to use, save for Sazandora from MYM8 that comes to mind. Such mechanic would normally scream overpowered, but it feels surprisingly tame and well-handled here, the overly-simplistic and defensive nature of the Specials actually being advantageous here. I can't speak for whether the arm-count on each move and rune-count on the Specials might conflict on certain moves, but the way you've gone about it is praiseworthy nonetheless.
This is probably one of your most well-executed sets and maybe even one of your most ambitious, concept-wise. If anything, I think maybe there could have been a bit more substance to it, maybe a little something extra to the Specials, maybe some sort of defined gameplan. For example, the Side Special negates projectiles, but feels a bit empty, especially given the icy animation that comes with it which would have one expecting more. I know the aerials feel geared towards dragging opponents down to earth with the U-air and D-air that combos into it, just that I don't see why Lore specifically needs opponents there when he doesn't have any traps or an aerial game that stands out as far as wanting to spike opponents offstage. And while I might be wrong here, I think a greater purpose to the defensive Specials would make them much more convincing, like stalling to charge for something that gets more powerful over time or use as pseudo-counters for a laggy attack. The former might not be possible with this kind of character, but powerful yet very laggy Smashes would definitely feel practical when you have plenty of ways of defending yourself to land them. In fact, if the Smashes were like that, I think my opinion on this set would improve quite a bit... just I'm not sure whether it would be in-character for Lore. You'd think so given he's a mage, but maybe it would go against the way his deck build works.[/collapse]
[collapse="n88_2004"]You know, I think I actually already read Lore back when it was posted, and forgotten about it. He's not a bad re-read, though. The writing style here is light and entertaining, and the moveset is fairly simple with a strong central concept (yes, I've used similar things in the past and may as well be praising myself. Don't judge me). I don't think this is the set people will be talking about in years to come, but it's fun, it works, and it's a solid start to your MYM16.
I think my chief criticism of Lore's implementation is that he feels a bit too limited. His Specials feel particularly underpowered. The general utility of the hands mechanic will make up for it in some measure, but his options still feel a little too restricted to me. A playstyle section would have been nice here, but I suppose it isn't ultimately necessary; Lore is easy enough to envision in motion.[/collapse]
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[collapse="Katapultar"]Yes, finally JoJo set not made by me! (or LoL) More of these sets are needed.
I strangely didn't find the set as humorous as others in the chat did (though I'd love to use the decapitation as material for a MYM16 SM...), but that's probably because it takes itself surprisingly seriously for a 1-day set and for whom the character is made for. Regardless, as mentioned by FA, characterization seeps through with the first 2 Specials: the Neutral Special that highlights Dio's head being the main threat of the 2, and the Up Special that highlights Wang Chan's undying loyalty. Crystal balls are utilized quite a bit more than I remember, but such can be taken as a joke of how little the character stood out. The set has good crafting behind it for the understandable lack of substance without doing anything too extreme (nothing offensive about decapitation when it kills the opponent and is pretty much impossible to pull off, which is good flavor for the character), its flow into combos that assist Lord Dio an interesting one. I initially thought Wang Chan was a bit too powerful in the tilt department and that it meant somewhat forsaking the need for Dio's beams, but upon looking back the percentages are actually perfect - a clean balance between incompetence yet still potentially being a threat with the vampire super strength if left unchecked.[/collapse]
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[collapse="Katapultar"]Hehe, pink coloring foreshadowing the spoiler. Clever stuff. I mean it, really.
Sad to say, I don’t think BK has as much to him as your previous sets, feeling a bit… shallow in comparison. Mostly that the Specials don’t feel as clever despite not being offensive (if anything, missiles deal a heap of damage for how many you can fire out and how big they are, and the Side Special has very low range), and not really any sort of established playstyle or bouts of characterization. I’d suggest maybe you dedicate an extra little paragraph on some moves to give everyone an idea of a playstyle you want to establish in the set, or write a brief playstyle section at the end of the set. Right now it’s a bit hard to see what you were going for.
Sorry to break this out on you, just that I kind of had to.[/collapse]
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[collapse="Katapultar"]This is a surprisingly analytical and extremely in-depth moveset for what it shows, almost as though you were starting a thread for an existing Smash character. It's rather crazy that you've gone into this much thought about not only how your own set would play in different areas, but also the different situations in which the moves would apply, and as such is highly respectable. There are some MYM'ers such as myself whom would note a move's uses in the actual attack rather than list them all at the end of the set, but I can understand what you're doing to a degree since the reader will have already read all the moves, not to mention you want them to feel the same way about your set as you do. It's not really a good idea to reference moves before they're introduced though, given we don't know what they do yet.
Most of the moves are simple and easy to understand, and there's not as much "Pokemon Syndrome" as one would think, which is a term used in Make Your Move to describe pokemon sets which take moves from the Pokemon's TM list and translate their effects to a T in which sacrifices the feel of the Pokemon. I think if anything, Victini's playstyle feels especially bare, even for Smash Bros standards, his moveset almost being the epitome of basic without a lot to make him stand out or any move that feels especially interesting, no huge focus in the set - something the playstyle section seems to acknowledge. Even Sakurai prioritizes newcomers based on those who would offer something new to the series. You can go into much depth about how a character would work and have it sound interesting, but sometimes it really doesn't change what's on the surface, what's already there. I know I was that way with one of my sets once, a character for whom I wanted to envision in Smash.[/collapse]
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[collapse="Katapultar"]I applaud you for going all the way with your Sly 4 boss movement, given some of those fights would be pretty awkward to translate or somewhat lack set potential. It's a bit hard to comment Decibel due being similar to BK and that I can sympathize with that character's supposedly terrible boss fight (I watched the 1st 3 boss fights) but this extra set has allowed me to see a few recurring quips maybe you could improve on. You don't always have to follow a boss's attack effects to a T if it would result in uncomfortable effects like stun, freezing or pitfall like on the Side Special, whereas making them deal knockback could be more interesting for the set. Also, I found that maybe 0.5 SBBs was too short a range for high-ranged melee attacks and that maybe you could compare them to existing smash attacks. It's mostly just nitpick however, and I do look forward to seeing take on something new after this.
Also, the Final Smash was a great way to end the "movement", tie in with the rest of the character's lack of Final Smashes and introduce an elusive character whose name popped up in all the intros to those unfamiliar with the game. Good job on that.[/collapse]
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[collapse="Katapultar"]Your sets have lovely presentation and are rather well-written. Your dedication to Pokesets almost rivals Joe's, though it'd be interesting to see you adopt other projects that reflect your tastes.
The Pokemon being from 6th Gen, references to the upcoming SBB4 sets and fire-based attacks give this set an interesting "new-generation" flavor. I've never played a SSB4 demo unlike you lucky guys over in the U.S, but the references don't detract or feel obscure for me, which is good. In any case, Pyrokinesis does well in linking to existing smash attacks and is nice that it can be fueled by your own attacks, but it doesn’t seem to specifically say how long it would take to reach full power with some simpler attacks such as your own. Being able to absorb residues of your own attack to become stronger is a pretty interesting playstyle that could have a risk-reward factor in it, but that doesn’t seem to be the case here – in fact, pyrokinesis seems almost too effective. From what I get, you can just pull the fire back from some of your moves and have it stun opponents, making it a very strong defense and almost invalidating shielding against the sweetspot, though I could be wrong. Of course, you could easily make it so Pyrokinesis doesn’t inflict stun so there’s actually a risk factor to absorbing it if you don’t use it to send enemies flying, preventing you from spamming it for defense or something.
If the enemy doesn’t have fire attacks, you’ll be forced to awkwardly absorb your own fire from the Side Special, as while the Up Special and Dash Attack also let you do this, they’re even more awkward to pull off for the sake of doing such, and the Smashes require you to have fire in order to absorb any in the first place. The melee game, which don’t get me wrong is fairly decent and has a nice feel to it character-wise, and I can respect what you were trying to go for with their independent nature, is very weak without any fire-based attacks and thus you’ll need fire in the first place in order to properly get a kill outside of a few token moves like the B-throw. The pyrokinesis pummel pulling appeared interesting at first, but from what you say it seems that it’s just a chaingrab and not what could have been an interesting way of bringing enemies towards you, which wouldn’t have been -that- great in the first place given Pyrokinesis’ limited range and the fact that enemies will be stunned by the fire coming out of them as they’re pulled in… I think. I’m not all that sure here. There was certainly potential in the grab game.
Overall, I’d say Braxien is respectable, but I don’t think the set resonates with me all that greatly. I do believe that the base concept has iffy execution and is not taken as far as it could have been with the Standards that don’t do all that much for it. To be fair, you obviously weren’t expecting much what with the set’s intended target, but it’s still a nice piece of art and there’ll obviously be those out there that enjoy it.[/collapse]
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[collapse="JamieTheAuraUser"]@ChaosKiwi: Four small stage builder blocks for a projectile that you can only have one of at a time? And that you're expected to hit another projectile with to make it do things? Yeah, that's way too short a range. Unless you're talking about large stage builder blocks, in which case that's 12 stage builder units. Stage builder units are, of course, the length of one small stage builder block. It's just one less word to say "stage builder units" than it is to say "small stage builder blocks".
For the record, four small stage builder blocks is less distance than a Fox Illusion covers.
Edit: On second thought, such a short range might make sense if he wants to avoid destroying his own Tall Grass, or if it's more meant to be a utility move to interact with other moves. But if he wants to not destroy his own grass, can't he just throw Clay Pigeons?
Also, his recovery is actually pretty bad, thanks to it automatically traveling forward. While this has its useful moments, more often than not this is going to result in him being Meteor Smashed offstage close to the ledge and quickly gimped as his Up Special puts him under the stage.
Double Edit: Don't mind my criticisms too much though. Aside from those issues and his throws looking like they deal a whackton of damage, it actually seems like a pretty cool set! As Katapultar noted, though, it's missing knockback...[/collapse]
[collapse="Katapultar"]It's interesting to see a one-day set from you. As weird logic it is for clay pigeons to explode for high damage upon being shot by a light gun, it's fun, but I reckon it'd be even more fun if you could specifically lock into your most recent pigeon by double-tapping B... but then that'd sort of ruin the shooter-nature of the set, I guess. The standards are... standard, namely because they're missing knockback, but the other moves are surprisingly good for a one-day set, the Smashes being hilarious and U-Smash/U-throw being genuinely interesting moves. Perhaps the grass Down Special doesn't do a lot for the set, despite being funny in hindsight, but it's acceptable for the flavor and timeframe the set was made in. Likewise, the D-throw is funny stuff, but I wouldn't normally accept forcing the foe to act against their will on a serious set. It feels funnier than usual simply because it's almost like a joke about how throws would be rushed near the end of a one-day set.
Overall, the set was actually much better than I expected for how quickly it was made and your level of skill, as the concepts and humor are fairly consistent and don't get overly stale unlike some past one-day set attempts. Good job![/collapse]
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[collapse="Katapultar"]Previewing this set gave some sense of attachment to it, so I was looking forward to seeing the final product. The greenness look pretty snazzy.
As I mentioned on the Whiteboard, the concept presented in the pummel is a sweet one; its execution isn't -brilliant- or totally convincing, but it's certainly fine for the characterization if you want to make the killing curse the final step in KOing an opponent. I also like the air game for what little reason Bellatrix has to place opponents there, and though your U-air was a little different than what I had in mind it has me sold nonetheless for its offstage gimping potential.
For nitpicks, D-throw could do with only dealing 25% at most, just simple number crunching. I also think there are times when a certain type of knockback can get a bit redundant: the F-throw also puts foes into prone like the D-throw, but I think it would benefit more from not doing such since it would allow Bellatrix the chance to follow-up immediately since you can't grab prone opponents. F-air should knock foes on a low angle instead of downwards like the D-air, as it feels a bit overpowering for offstage. Finally, I still think the Side Special is lacking in detail like the lag and how fast it travels. The hitbox manipulation seems like it would be difficult to pull off on most of your stuff (and somewhat impractical with the Down Special barrier), the counter effect not having a lot of flow in the set. I probably should have told you earlier, but it seemed like a good fit character-wise and it had the manipulation. It would be good if there was emphasis on dealing shield damage from afar with projectiles, though the current SSpec projectile seems a bit too weak for that (or is it? Wouldn't it make sense to expel a shield aka deal damage to it?). Really, I guess I just want a projectile that can pressure shields to capitalize on the pummel, and you could possibly have the counter serve as a mix-up for the killing curse.
Overall, I'd say this is a pretty nice set, and it's probably your best right now. Man, reminds me of Weird Rider, except it's early in the contest - if you can put this much dedication into the rest of your sets, I think you'll have a great showing![/collapse]
[collapse="FrozenRoy"]Bellatrix Rabbit
Hey, I should finally try and comment something! With 50+ stuff not commented, I probably won't get 'em all, and for now I'm just gonna do random sets to get into the flow again...
Bellatrix's base concepts are somewhat straightforward or basic, but they work well as a nice base for the set: Bellatrix and her signature Killing Curse ability can get kills early, but the Killing Curse is easily stopped by things such as shields, and ergo Bellatrix also has a focus on shield damage, including a pretty neat pummel. While not a concept that will carry an entire set, it is fairly sharp and good concept that can be played with. And the set does it...okay. The travelling counter idea I had in Weiss makes a return here and seems adequate and the wall Bellatrix can put up seems nice, though I do wish that Bellatrix could do a bit more with it, maybe making it stay out some...maybe a move that deals shield damage and can "shatter" Protego to create a ranged hitbox?
The biggest issue with Bellatrix feels like it is the depth of the set: It has some cool stuff with what it does, like how the pummel and Killing Curse work into each other or how the Down Smash encourages both shielding to eat at shields and fleeing for Bellatrix to snipe them with a Killing Curse or to follow with an Up Special, she feels like she doesn't have much going for her outside the Killin Curse/shield damage and that because of that the meat of the moveset, the various tilts and aerials and such, can feel a bit surface. I would have liked to see Bellatrix have a few other ways to take advantage of low shields, like maybe an attack that deals more the less shield they have or slightly more pressure options or in general a bit more focus aside from the Killin Curse + shield damage. It is a bit difficult to put into words, but it feels like the crux of the set is done well in about 8 moves, and then the rest just kind of exists to exist around it.
I would say the biggest areas that could be improved are the aerials, sans Back Aerial (Which serves an okay purpose to shield damaging) and Up Aerial (Which seems like a fine attack, though I question why Bellatrix wants the foe on the ground), and the Down Throw: The Up Throw also isn't great, but it does okay service of working into the aerials and setting things up, while the Down Throw is just a KO throw and on a set that perhaps does not want such a good KO throw, given her focus on hard to land/precise KO moves as part of her playstyle.
Overall, Bellatrix feels similiar to the Roman Centurion as a somewhat above average set that can get some votes, and is worth a read, especially as it is rather short. Certainly one of your better efforts in recent times, anyway.[/collapse]
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[collapse="FrozenRoy"]Flonne
Altis has a concept I can dig: Her Neutral Special allows her gun to push her back and combined with her tether gives her a huge amount of spacing options, melee options and a variety of ways to use her projectiles. This is combined with Altis' awesome Down Special bombs: I quite like the ability to shoot either the fuse or the bomb itself. At first I thought this wouldn't work well, but further thought makes me realize it'd be quite simple (The bomb has a hurtbox and then another hurtbox on top attached to the fuse) and would work well as long as the fuse's hurtbox was the right size. Moves like the Up Tilt and Forward Smash take strong advantage of what the Specials offer: I especially like the Forward Smash, which shows a good understanding of the tether and feels like it would create quite a fun gamestate, notably with its reset properties.
The Down Smash adds in more stuff with freezing your Down Tilt fire (which you can then melt with fire! That logic is so silly it blends it seamlessly with the series) and freezing your bombs to store them, which works well with your ability to tether them not to mention the different ways you can explode them. The choice it gives of all that combined with whether you want to slide around more or not and I like how it is a move with far reaching consequences. The Up Smash is also quite neat, it reminds me of the movabble counter on Bellatrix in a way or Don Thousand's gates, and it flows nicely into the game, so it is all around cool.
The aerials are probably the "worst" part of this moveset, though they're not really bad as much as not amazing, they're real workmanship kind of moves. The Down Aerial is a pretty neat way to work into everything, though, and the Neutral Aerial shortening is cool, overall though they're mostly notable for displaying good awareness of Altis' playstyle. The throws are overall pretty neat, Down Throw I thought was especially cool and it works kind of fun into her clouds and her fire traps, the back throw was nice too and I liked the setups offered by Up Throw, though stronger aerials would have helped that move.
This moveset did have some flaws, Up Tilt felt out of place some and I feel there could be a bit more depth outside the tether/NSpec, but overall the set is quite nice, it reminds me a fair deal of Salvatore in your catalogue of sets due to the many projectiles even though they play differently, though it also brings to mind Vector and even a bit of Remilia for me. I found I enjoyed it more than I expected reading it and felt it tied together into a nice package. A strong showing.[/collapse]
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[collapse="FrozenRoy"]Butt Monkey: The Set
You said in your article that Ryuto was designed to be bad to mediocre, which you'd also said way back when you posted him: I thought it was amusing, in a good way, that you would intentionally make a set to be like that. It feels like a very Kat thing to do.
Personally, though, I legitimately enjoy Ryuto as a set: I thought his Power Arms NSpec, for example, was a grear wat to mix in being a butt monkey with some functionality, like how Ryuto running away can be used to "lead" the shot to the foe as long as you do something like super armor tank the hit or shield it, and how there's an element of sacrificing yourself to have the Power Arm deal a bigger hit, with the option to stand in place to just retrieve the gloves normally. So do you use your mobility to pressure the foe and have to deal with the gloves or do you sit there and just use it as a shuttle loop projectile but be safe? I have no idea how much of this is really intentional, but it is interesting nonetheless.
I also really like how the Up Special interacts with the Neutral Special: Not only is the uppercut done in a nice way with the normal hitbox, but I like how it can "combo" with it and, since the glove pushes him forward and all, you can use an NSpec into Up Special into the glove hitting you to recover, which not only fits tonally with the set as his own attempt to recover ends up getting him clobbered (but helping him), but adds an additional interesting element to his recovery. The Down Special is also a fun take on Mr. Game & Watch's Bucket Cancel and, amusingly, is quite similiar to an idea I had for another series' Butt Monkey, Glass Joe. The SSpec isn't as great as the other specials, but I do like how it is risky/rewardy and possibly even that, if he blows himself up with it near a foe, he can catch them in it too, share the pain if you will, and if not the way that he can do stuff like run in front of it (Which protects it from projectiles!) or vary the speeds is nice. Maybe he could even Power Arm, fires one of these off, them send himself hurtling forward along with the SSpec?
The Standards continue with some nice stuff, like I enjoy how the Forward Tilt has a variety of hitboxes that you'd want to use at various times and how the move is safer near the edge, as the opponent will have less space to travel to be KO'd while you will have more, and in a pinch you can even sacrifice your life to get away from something like a shield by headspotting it. The way the Dash Attack's DACUS works is fun with the Forward Smash, which I find to be a refreshing move: Ryuto might be wasting that wall, but he's doing it in a way that services his game plan and has some cool interactions. I wonder, if Ryuto F-Smashes and times it right, can he stop the Power Arm with the wall for a moment?
The Down Smash is not only amusing, but the way that Ryuto can seemingly fire himself any which way via his Power Arm not only adds more versatility to that move, but even without the Power Arm this move helps ensure the other moves work well with non-Power Arm attacks thanks to the trajectory and has some nice little play with movement. The aerials aren't quite as good, but I thought the Down Aerial was a bit neat if somewhat silly and I liked the elements it added to his moveset, plus the difference between the Up Aerial hitboxes was an interesting mix between juggler and potential off-the-top finisher if he can get the foe high enough, especially since his self-damage might help him follow.
The grab game probably has the least interesting stuff here, but I am a big fan of the Forward Throw and Up Throw: The Forward Throw is a fun way to work into moves like NSpec and SSpec while retaining its own uses and it helps enhance the somewhat weak air game when you can go offstage with it: I like how it not only has the obvious flow of hitting the foe but also that Ryuto can desperately rocket forward in a panic as his gloves catch up to him, trying to find out what his best options are, very in character. Up Throw isn't as good of a throw, but I do like how it distills the self-damage into the sky bit and shows how stuff like Up Aerial work into this, as if the foe has more damage Ryuto can blow them both sky-high and then Up Aerial to follow up with a KO off the top. If he has more damage, he can blow them sky high and then try to go right into a Down Aerial, especially since it can pop up from the ground if they try to avoid it by grounding themselves.
I've been overwhelmingly positive here, but part of that is because the flaws in Ryuto are rather apparent and I am accentuating the positives here: The ideas behind the moveset means that there's a good deal of filler moves like Down Throw and Back Throw that serve minimal, though usually not NONE, purposes, and at times the moveset intentionally holds itself back to keep it from being "too good". Half the grab game is super weak and the aerials are not impressive as they do not do all that much in service of the set, outside the aforementioned Up Aerial and Down Aerial, though I do enjoy that Back Aerial has some uses and I would call it "good" myself but not noticably good if that makes sense.
Still, though, the self-damage, risk-reward factor with the Down Special for desperate survival is played well here with some really dynamic and active play on both sides, the visuals are overall good and I did enjoy the writing style, though it could at times be overbearing: I like how he's even a butt monkey due to reusing sound, though. Overall I enjoyed Ryuto more than I thought I would when I first read it, and while I expected a reread to not do well I was pleasantly surprised that rereading it for this comment did not wear at me as I expected. Is it a success or failure if you try to make a set bad/mediocre and someone likes it?
Don't be scared away by this set being "bad": It's worth a read even if it does turn out to be bad to you. Trust me.[/collapse]
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[collapse="Katapultar"]Now this looks nice! I'm a big fan of anime myself, perhaps not -so- much towards Studio Ghibli works, but this is an interesting tribute towards the retired Miyazaki. Glad to see you've put a lot of effort into this set.
Neutral Special is a very fun and interesting concept that just feels right for Howl's passive, somewhat playful nature. It does feel too spammable though since Howl can just throw it back up once the foe has finished KO'ing the clone, but that can be fixed by adding more lag onto the attack (maybe 0.6-1 second would be good) and a cooldown period where he can't use it when the clone is KO'ed. This would be very easy to fix, and would make a world of difference. Also, I assume that using the move again will dispel the clone so you can throw it back out again. The Side Special isn’t as bad as you’d expect since it’s just a grab, and the Down Special is definitely very cool.
Pacifist playstyles are very, very tricky to pull off in fighting games, as weak execution can make the sets very boring to play as if they don’t go about attacking enough, but the way you’ve done it isn’t too bad with the clone and traps. The Specials and Smashes are pretty good, but I don’t think most of the Standards and Aerials have the right feel: they’re all slaps or kicks that can be used competently, which doesn’t feel all that right on the pacifistic Howl, as you can just beat up the opponent without worry when you’re invincible and they have to deal with your clone first. I can understand that you wanted to incorporate some good knockback for spacing purposes, but I’d much rather if many of these standard attacks were more evasive moves that disrupt opponents weakly and maybe involved a bit of gimmicky magic. The Down Special also doesn’t have a lot of flow in the set due to foes mostly going after the clone and Howl being weak against projectiles, as cool a move it is. Howl actually has some frighteningly powerful standards, aerials and throws for how “pacifistic” he is, and these can be made even more powerful by his U-Smash!
Overall, I’d say that Howl falls short in execution, sadly, though to be fair the playstyle you were attempting is a very difficult one that even veterans would have a hard time with. The set is a good improvement over your other 2 sets however, having some very unique ideas and not as many pitfalls (pun intended) as the Monopoly Guy. If you maybe went for an easier playstyle and continued to throw out some of these interesting ideas, I could see you making a very good set in the future.
Also, I like how the Specials are written in this set – broken up into simple little line-by-line sentences. It’s almost like reading a poem, maybe.[/collapse]
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[collapse="Katapultar"]I'm genuinely impressed at what you've done with the Specials, having played the games myself. It's basically the pioneer of incorporating Custom Specials into movesets, doubling as an especially clever way to show off the duos' armada of attacks, though Custom Specials are not something I'm interested in pursuing in my own movesetting. If anything it does sort of make the set a bit hard and awkward to judge when one needs to consider that for once the moves they're reading are not all incorporated into the moveset at the same time, making it partially feel like an unnecessary slog. Given you're throwing 12 Specials at us from the get-go, I can safely assume that BK is a unique experience where you want players to mix-and-match their preferences for the Specials like with Smash 4 characters. Hmmmmm.
When you get past the Specials, the Standards are shown to be quite refreshing, feeling distant from the Specials. You only have so much choice when most of these moves and their effects are based off attacks in the series, but they're perfectly translated to a T and their standalone feel works well with fact that you're doing full-blown Custom Specials. I think you reached your intended goal perfectly - a definite Banjo-Kazooie set geared towards SSB4 players. The set is very good in that regard.
It's kind of hard to find complaints considering what you set out to do in the set, but I do find the 3rd Down Special somewhat awkward on many levels. It's a bit hard to understand visually in that the explosion does not feel all that pronounced in the writing. That being said, it's the one move I don't really remember from the series, to be fair (did it even happen?). It also feels awkward game-play wise in that it's essentially a trap you can manually detonate, strange for Banjo and Kazooie despite their eggs, and it has an absolutely massive timer and doesn't seem to have a lot of flow in the set. It's sort of the bad egg among an otherwise well-crafted set of Custom Specials. My other, lesser nitpick is that radial knockback seems -slightly- abused in the Specials without that much reason to be to the point where it could lead into overpowered situations, mainly the Clockwork Egg that could spike recovering opponents without too much trouble. I'm sure there's a reason for the design, though.
This is definitely a good set that I could see having a lot of fans, but I can't really like it any more than that because of how it was handled; it's not especially focused and leaves a lot of how it works up to readers, or at least that's how it seemed to me through the playstyle section. That's what you were going for though, I can understand that, and it works for the characters.[/collapse]
[collapse="Junahu"]Banjo Kazooie:
Banjo Kazooie would have read so much better, had the reader known what the rest of the moveset was, before being pushed into the mini-gauntlet of 12 specials. As is, the moveset feels inside-out, and remarkably unfriendly for what it is. "Specials first" is not always the right template to use for a moveset, and it specifically feels like the wrong template to use here.
There's a pervasive failure to endear your idea to the reader. In any other moveset, you would be chomping at the bit to sell MYM on why this kind of customisation makes Banjo Kazooie a better moveset. But here, you just sort of fart out a standard playstyle blurb at the end and sort the 12 unique specials into broadly generic catagories.
Honestly, I really want the 12 specials thing to catch on. If not as an addendum for our future movesets, then at least as an alternate catagory of moveset (i.e. entries that are only specials, but have all 12 of them)
I don't believe for a second that Banjo Kazooie is a bad moveset. It's remarkably comprehensive in its references, the characterisation is inoffensive. And for all my moaning, you are diligent in giving each attack both a solid feel and a reason to exist.
It's just badly stitched together on the presentation side, which puts the moveset at something of a disadvantage.[/collapse]
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[collapse="Katapultar"]I quite liked the tone you adopted for this movement - a minimalist approach that leaves details normally described in other movesets to the readers' imaginations. It actually feels very fitting with the nature of the characters, not just by their lack of background details but also the fact that they're just sprites. It also made reading through the movement far less of a slog than one would normally expect, but at the cost of certain important details. This wasn't too bad most of the time, but I felt it had a dramatic effect on this particular set's enjoyment, more than any of the other sets in the movement.
Put simply, Lom Lobon feels vague. For one, the Neutral Special felt lacking in detail for how much of an impact an ice block would have on a match. I assume the ice storm itself would never cause flinching (though I guess it’s a given since you mention dealing damage near Lom Lobon) and that ice blocks would function as barrels that can be broken in one hit, as both would feel balanced and I’d be very willing to accept that. There’s also a lack of detail on how much damage ice blocks would deal when thrown around in a tornado, but I assume it wouldn’t be much at all.
Even with that little nitpick out of the way, the concepts felt a little distant. They’re fairly cool, especially the tornado which lasts until you’re attacked, and most of them make it obvious that Lom Lobon wants to fight from a distance, but they don’t seem to come together all that well nor utilize their full potential. The projectiles somewhat conflict with the tornado in that they knock enemies away from it when it moves with Lom Lobon and is his main KO move, and I assume it conflicts with ice blocks as well if they can only be created on the ground (or fall if made in midair). The healing seems a bit strange, and the terraforming I inherently have no problem with just that I’d prefer if there was some kind of in-character (or gameplay) focus on it like with Sloth instead of being there for the sake of it.
Overall, Lom Lobon felt like a mish-mash of different ideas, just that they didn’t come together in a really convincing way, the vagueness sort of working against it. Certainly not a bad set though; the character and the potential is there, just that he needed more attention-to-detail and development in order to be truly good.[/collapse]
[collapse="ForwardArrow"]Lom Lobon
I will say I liked this set a fair deal more than Kat did, as I do feel the concepts here actually flow together pretty well. Build up some ice cubes, make a tornado and loop the opponent through it, bringing up the ice cubes along with them to assist your projectile game, which in turn makes the sweetspots on shatter and the rather unorthodox tornado KO easier to pull off. Its good stuff, if maybe a bit too redundant with using ice blocks as ways to transmit projectiles, but the FSmash and DSmash bring into account some new ways to utilize the ice blocks for Rock Smash effects as well. I find the set a bit easier to like than Sherry, as the design of the hitboxes on a lot of moves leads to some interesting depth and the flow that's here isn't very reliant on stun(there's a total of one pitfall and no other stun effects in the moveset, and the pitfall is really hard to land).
I do think the set's not perfect though, a few aspects sticking out as disconnected to the rest of the set. Major Healing is probably the biggest one, as I don't really see what this is supposed to provide him with aside from survivability. I guess camping gives you more time to charge it, but that doesn't exactly make it feel like it adds anything to the set. Aside from that, I really wonder what Shatter's terraforming effect was supposed to accomplish, as its fun to see you attempt to work with a little terraforming but not much mileage is gotten out of it, though square shaped pits are a lot more unpleasant to work with than slopes in a non-lockdowny way. Aside from that, there's some obvious filler here and there, though not so much that it turns the set into a dull read. Its a very solid effort from you DM.[/collapse]
[collapse="n88_2004"]Lom Lobon
Oy, commenting. Been a while. In fact, this is the first set I've even read in quite a while. That probably contributed to some of the difficulties I had reading this moveset; it's a bit vague in parts, and at times a bit too quick to jump from one mechanic to the next. There were a couple times I had to double back and re-read things to make sure I understood everything. I'll trust that this is more on me than you, though.
I really like the tornado centerpiece here; it adds up to something very fun, with Lobon and the opponent battling toward the top blast zone in the middle of a maelstrom. It's also much appreciated that the set's smartly designed enough not to bottleneck at the tornado, with other options abound.
I'm not sure I'm a fan of the float with aerial ground moves, though. I understand wanting to give him the option to use those moves in a tornado, but it seems like a strange addition. I'd almost rather you found a way to let him do that with the Down Special, since the current DSpec seems a bit disconnected from the rest of the set anyway. It gives him a motivator to stay away from the opponent (and as a corollary, the opponent a reason to not give him too much breathing room), but I'm not really convinced that he needed another one.
My problems with the set aren't exactly overwhelming, though. Heck, I'd say they're not even whelming. Solid work on this one. On to the next![/collapse]
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[collapse="Katapultar"]Drain seems overpowering at first glance, and I admit it took me a moment to wrap my head around the percentages presented given what they’re usually associated with in Smash, but it actually presents for a very interesting playstyle – rather than just be a straight-up status effect, it starts off weak and grows as you feed it more, and if opponents ignore it for too long they’ll really start to suffer and it’ll only get harder to remove. Also, I assume a 100% drain is equal to a Pummel KO (if so, a very coolly-described one), because it’d be pretty annoying to have to run off the ledge and kill yourself if you can no longer deal damage – especially given how slow you are, if you can even move at all.
I have a few nitpicks on the Specials in that 2 seconds feels way too short a time for a fully-charged Up Special given how ridiculously good it is at higher percentages/drain, and the “magical contamination” of the Down Special feels hard to understand, I assume that simply being you can’t use it invisibility properly until 15 seconds once initiated. U-tilt looks like an attack of extremes, overpowering even if you hit the opponent with a few drains and don’t get hit.
In a strange case for a DM set, I actually thought Gloorx Volq -lacked- reliable melee attacks. His Jab is a bit slow, his F-tilt hits from afar, D-tilt must be laggy given its ludicrous range and U-tilt obviously can’t hit from the sides, F-Smash, N-air and D-Smash all being unorthodox moves (the latter doesn’t even have a proper hitbox and does not seem to benefit from being charged, similar to Smashes from old Rool sets). It sort of makes Gloorx Volq very predictable in melee combat to the point where you -have- to use his ridiculous speed to run from opponents, being a weird way of zoning, though it was probably your intention when designing the set. F-Smash doesn’t seem to offer much given it’s compared to the Neutral Special, and would probably benefit from being changed to a more defensive-orientated scythe slash to intercept nearby opponents and knock them away from you reliably. The invisibility is used well for this cause, though it seems like it’d be a bit hard to control given how fast the character moves.
Gloorx Volq feels stronger than his blue brother with his interesting mechanic, good use of zoning and flow in the Specials, but he’s not entirely flawless: handling him would feel awkward, some of the unorthodox inputs leave less room for practical stuff that could give him more choice in battle and the Up Special, U-tilt, U-air and healing throw almost feel overpowering. An extreme feel is a good feel for this kind of moveset, just that with the former 3 moves there’s nothing stopping you from spamming the hell out of them once you can get away with it. But I do like this set, I’ll give you that.[/collapse]
[collapse="ForwardArrow"]Gloorx Vloq
Drain damage is a cool concept, but a small portion of me is thinking of playing against Viper in DoTA2 when I read it due to how it slows down the opponent's everything. And my god do I hate playing against Viper, probably because I have all the skill of a dead walrus. Tangents aside, I think after a certain amount of drain damage, like 45% or so, it'd just snowball so hard the opponent could never feasibly fight back, though at the very least its not that hard to get rid of drain damage especially if Gloorx wants to go and use the fairly powerful minions. Its sort of fun to work with the drain damage as a minor slow to allow your somewhat awkward hitboxes to work better too, though that may just be me who likes strangely shaped/sweetspotted hitboxes a lot more than he should.
I do have to wonder how connected all the concepts you introduce are, as while the way the invisibility plays is interesting I'm not as convinced it flows into the drain as it should, though at the same time you do introduce ones that do flow into it quite well like the rather awesome Symbol of Torment. I think my main complaint with the set is the Smashes, which barring Lethal Infusion have basically nothing to do with the rest of the set and come across as wastes of potential, I'd figure you could work the Miasma and poison damage into the drain damage/minions somehow and you really don't. I get wanting to use them in the set as they sound like fairly important spells of his from our conversations about this set, but their relevance amounts to fairly little for how awkward they are as Smashes(especially Miasma). I've probably nitpicked this set too much though, it feels very interesting to play and on a whole I like the concepts introduced and the slightly loose but still connected nature of them. Its just a good bit worse than Lom Lobon for me.[/collapse]
[collapse="n88_2004"]Gloorx Vloq
Starting off with a nitpick is a breach of etiquette, I know, but at the beginning of the set you say that 8% drain damage makes the opponent "108% slower". I suspect you mean 8% slower, or that Neutral Special is terrifying indeed.
I'm afraid that Gloorx skews a bit too restrictive in terms of the status effects he inflicts on the foe. He's not quite a lockdown character, but once he gets rolling, retaking the momentum will be no small feat. Still, the drain damage is a novel effect, and the way it's handled here is interesting. My first impression was that Gloorx was way over-powered, but after dwelling on it, I'm less convinced. You might need to make a couple tweaks (some number-crunching on Symbol of Torment might be in order), but he's far from unfixable. That Forward Throw seems like it makes drain damage a bit too easy, though.
Some of the effects on the Standard seem odd. The Up Tilt/Aerial dealing damage based on drain level feels most out of place, but the Up Smash affecting his scythe attacks also doesn't quite sit right with me either. I'm just not getting what they have to do with the inputs.
I do wonder at how Gloorx would function in a FFA match. A lot of his tricks that require more set-up would be out, but he could probably have a fun keep-away game, using drain damage to play foes against each other.
This one feels a bit more solidly written than Lobon, and more fun to think about, but I'm not sure Gloorx would be quite as much fun when translated into the actual game.[/collapse]
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[collapse="Katapultar"]Cerebov certainly has the power going for him and a clear extreme in his fire resistance-removing sword. Unlike Gloorx Volq though, that power feels incredibly blatant to the point of being completely overpowered. And that Side Special feels incredibly cruel: Cerebov can easily knock foes away to get into the attack’s range, which is absolutely massive, and combined with the duration prevents any foe from being able to dodge their way through. It’s essentially an invincible move against edgeguarders, and that’s not even taking the fire traps it leaves behind or the fact that it deals more damage when you hit with your sword attacks! It would be significantly more balanced if the fire had a very short duration that let enemies dodge it without a problem, and if there was actual lag mentioned since it would feel especially important to know whether it’s telegraphed or leaves Cerebov open to punishment afterwards (though apparently he can actually capitalize on the second it lingers, according to the playstyle section). The demon minions both feel quite overpowering as well, one having a completely unavoidable attack while the other can potentially deal 50% to you in one go, and possibly the U-Smash. It’s a bit strange to be met with a set from you that’s just so crazy powerful.
It’s interesting to have a character who blows enemies away with such force on each hit, but Cerebov does not feel as especially interesting or even as focused as the other sets, being the weakest of the bunch in my opinion – even if he wasn’t completely overpowered.[/collapse]
[collapse="ForwardArrow"]Cerebov
This has probably the least compelling bunch of ideas and worst execution of the bunch, reminding me a bit of Argent Commander with the overpowering stacking damage and lack of recovery. That said its not really all that bad, I think Haste at the very least makes the set have very real depth what with cutting your lag by absorbing fire traps, while being somewhat limited by the fact that you can't store them so you better make efficient use of them or its a waste of your time and fire traps. The sword increasing the opponents damage/knockback from fire traps so massively makes him rather terrifying to play against, kind of reminding me of Ganondorf in terms of abilities but becoming a lot more satisfying and dangerous when you see all the lingering hitboxes and stacking damage he can pull off, as well as the small but relevant chances he has to actually use fast attacks for once.
Of course, I do say its the worst of the group for a reason, as past the specials you don't really find much to do with the concepts introduced, either working with irrelevant but admittedly cool material in the iron ball or just throwing out fairly generic attacks with the effects shown in specials. There are a few good ones in there in how they use the attacks, but stuff that was interesting the first time like Sticky Flame is not so interesting when it shows up for the third time. Unlike Gloorx and much moreso Mnoleg, the minions come across as very ignored, they just kind of are introduced in a special and then never mentioned again, which is fairly bad when they feel as powerful/interesting as they do, but I can't really count them as much as a good point for the set when they basically are never acknowledged and one of their most interesting moves(Sticky Flame) is just casually reused twice in Cerebov's actual set. That said, for all my complaints the set still has very real depth from the specials alone and honestly, I would probably main it for how satisfying a lot of the attacks feel even if there isn't much too the later parts of the set.[/collapse]
[collapse="n88_2004"]Cerebov
All of these sets (so far; I haven't read Mnoleg yet, as I type this) have had a very solid sense of atmosphere and character, but I think Cerebov does that best of all them. Though I might just be biased because Morgoth Cerebov fits neatly into an archetype I like, both in terms of character and moveset. He's handily the Pandemonium Lord I'd most like to actually play as or against.
I like him, but I probably have the least to say about Cerebov. I enjoyed reading the set, and I really like the sense of power here. He's definitely more loosely constructed than Lobon or Vloq; it might have been nice to see the minions and fire vortexes woven into the playstyle a bit more smoothly. It feels odd to me that he can reabsorb a fire vortex to charge Haste, but not for any other purpose; with the random movement of the vortex thrown in, it seems rare that he'll ever get a chance to do that. Still, that's a nitpick and, though I suspect he won't set the rankings charts on fire (*rimshot*), I count Cerebov as a good read.[/collapse]
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[collapse="Katapultar"]The title for this comment should speak for this set’s quality… by far the best of the movement, and maybe even one of your best. It does not suffer from any striking balance problems unlike the previous 2 sets, nor does the tone bring it down massively. If anything, it actually benefits from the writing style, which is a good balance to the amount of detail usually involved in the minion genre. I thought the attack name “Summon Horrible Things” and the mutation descriptions were especially humorous, along with the recurring mention of “silly little booties”.
Experimental minion set is definitely something FA would do, hence the comment title, so it’s surprising to see you handle it. Yours is a far more simple read with no less content, the eye minions all being unique and balanced and the abominations being refreshingly simple, their combinations only taking 2 mere paragraphs to describe. If anything, the glow is brought up at a strange time and is the one thing that could do with a bit more detail, but it can’t be helped if you introduced it on a minion.
I like the way Mnoleg was handled, having a few tricky moves but never feeling overpowering in his attacks, helped by his lack of projectiles outside of the laggy U-Smash. He only has one truly reliable KO move, but it’s a recurring one with a good deal of presence. He has a few wacky, unorthodox attacks like Gloorx Volq, but these work well with the fact that can summon minions and balances out their existences, along with some of the crazy stuff you can do with them via combinations and effects from the throws. Heck, even the glow KO mechanic feels extremely well-executed and works marvelously with the minions: actually pressuring the opponent yourself is high-risk due to the fact that the blast can hurt you, yet they can’t easily shield it due to your means of hurting shields nor can they dodge it easily because of your minions. One of the best things about this set is just how scarily well all the fun ideas flow with each other.
For all I’ve said, there is one thing bogging the set down for me, and only one thing: the Malign Gateway Up Special. Specifically, the eldritch tentacle with the ridiculous reach that effectively keeps opponents in place if grabbed. It doesn’t seem to have a place in Mnoleg’s grand scheme, and feels blatantly overpowered even if the tentacle just disappeared if it were dodged. The set would actually be better if it were removed and it were just a simple portal recovery, or if you incorporated the tentacle into the playstyle in a unique and balanced way.
Overall, and regardless of the Up Special, Mnoleg is a great, well thought-out set and the shining jewel of the Pandemonium movement. I really like the set as is, but if the Up Special was removed or changed for the better it would have a very good chance of getting a Super Vote from me at the end of the contest. Splendid work, DM; if you keep this up you could return to being the powerhouse that you were in the old days.[/collapse]
[collapse="ForwardArrow"]Mnoleg
Oh is it really a surprise this one is my favorite. I love build-a-minion stuff, and you give some very interesting components with the eyes, which have very unique effects to make their rather generic body template into something that is actually extremely interesting to play with. That alone is good, and you actually play off it in some fairly exciting ways with the glow, ability to evolve the minions, and the awesome grab game. Glow stands out to me as a particularly great idea on your part, its a time bomb effect that is potentially extremely rewarding and works well into the minions and doesn't feel unfun in the slightest, hell it actually is kind of enjoyable to play against if anything because using it against Mnoleg to bring him down with you sounds hilarious. The minion commands, camping, and shield poking stuff aren't nearly as exciting, but honestly it does all at least flow off the minions(largely on account of the one that drains shields in the case of the last one).
I actually don't have that terribly much to complain about, even if the standards/smashes/aerials are less compelling than the Specials and Grab Game they still have plenty of relevance and can still do interesting things(I quite like the Nair/Uair). Two things that bug me are that, animation wise, the minion commands are a bit awkward because I don't fully understand why these moves make the minions respond, especially in the way they do, though that's a complaint that can be leveled against a good number of MYM sets. Aside from that, the mutations on the opponent, while interesting in their own strange way, maybe should've been handled a little differently than pure randomness, I proposed a ROB laser charge to determine how harmful the selection of effects would be, though honestly the mutations feel subdued enough that they don't detract from the moveset regardless, its more just a matter of wishing they were capitalized on a little more and giving the player a bit more control over them, even if there was still a random element involved. On a whole though, this is a pretty great set and a lot of people are calling it an early frontrunner for a good reason.[/collapse]
[collapse="n88_2004"]Mnoleg
This one seems to be the DM set (or any set) with the most buzz. So naturally, I went into this one trying to find problems. I have to say that it handles some really off-the-wall concepts in a reserved, logical way. The various mutations, minions and freakish glow-induced explosions are all implemented incredibly smoothly here.
I think the set loses some of that sheen when it gets into the standards, though; some of the attacks here feel like they're trying a little too hard to get creative, with effects that left me a little confused. Why do Down Tilt and Up Tilt adjust his minions' AI? I guess there's an implied Mutation effect on Down Tilt, but it still feels like a very strange mechanism for manipulating the abominations. Another oddball is the Forward Aerial with the customizable knockback direction.
All the main parts of the set are beautifully handled here, but some of the mechanics in Mnoleg's basic inputs strike me as a little forced. It's still a very fun set, of course, but I wasn't as impressed by it as I thought I was going to be after finishing the Smashes. [/collapse]
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[collapse="Katapultar"]As the (extremely fitting) title of this comment implies, I hold this set in similar regard to to Banjo-Kazooie, as both sets have a lot in common with each other. Both are incredibly stylish. Both revolve around custom. Both are for main characters. Both stay true to their respective series to an commendable degree while still working in smash. But most of all, both make good use of a feature in the upcoming Smash game. BK used Custom Specials, but this set uses the fact that Smash is playable on a 3DS now. That is great.
Oh, and both sets use partners. Just in... different ways.
The difference between the 2 sets is that Neku is not your typical Smash set, and that he has a lot more custom options going for him. The invincible dash and tech are slightly questionable, though the latter is not totally overpowered since it's not like a player would have time to mash the touch pen in one place upon being hit and furthermore would have to predict the knockback trajectory of the attack they were hit by. Neku also appreciates spacing given his vast repertoire ranged-attacks, so just teching all the time is like asking to be comboed. Now, I'll assume that the screens' roles are reverse to the 3DS version (percentages at top, main screen at bottom) and that opponents have some way of knowing where their Neku opponent is aiming the effects of a given pin move, especially in the case of attacks that can be aimed anywhere like pyrokinesis and the freezing effect.
I've never played TWEWY myself despite MYM being veeery familiar with it, but Neku seems like he'd be pretty fun to play as, especially given some of the unique touch-screen options that let you position your attacks in ways no other character can. His set essentially boils down to a weak Jab, Grab, 4 assist-based Specials at a time that cycle with each successful hit and 6 custom attacks with varying cooldown. That's a little less than the average character, though Neku is indifferent to being grounded or in midair so one could almost argue that he has more options. Like Banjo and Kazooie, it's a little difficult to judge. Neku seems like he'd be predictable, but that doesn't seem to be the case. On the other hand, he feels a bit starved for melee options compared to other characters when he's trying to raise a meter, even with partners given they alternate automatically, making him feel very campish when he has tons of pin projectiles given he's encouraged to use traps and what not to raise that meter.
Like Banjo-Kazooie, the set is great in being serviceable to its series in the best way possible, but I have a hard time really, REALLY liking the set anymore than I do because it doesn't have one set playstyle or goal unlike most sets, much like the aforementioned set. It's potentially more fun, yet a bit more difficult to truly judge and grasp due to relying on custom far more. A Neku set for Smash could work just as well, but this was certainly an interesting set.[/collapse]
[collapse="n88_2004"]I've already hit the Pandemonium Lords, so on the DM front, I'm all caught up with Neku Sakuraba. I usually like your work, but this isn't quite your typical bundle of tricks. The partners and the light puck made for an interesting set-up, though some of the partners' attacks felt a little underdeveloped at points. (How big is an obstacle? How much bigger is a larger obstacle?) But that list of pins... man that was a slog. I didn't have the heart to do much more than skim through the main playstyle section after making it through all that, and I sure as heck didn't go through all the individual pin-outs and match-ups.
This has the feelings of a really carefully done tribute to the source material, but I'm not familiar with said source material, and it's all a bit lost on me. You get an A for effort, but Neku is so far removed from what a moveset normally is that I can't entirely wrap my head around him, and I'm more inclined to think of him more as some crazy (probably way over-powered?) game mode than an actual fighter. (By the by, can you take two pins that have the same input mechanism? Do both go off simultaneously, if possible? If there was an explanation for that, I missed it)[/collapse]
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[collapse="Katapultar"]I had a hard time thinking of what to say about this set for some strange reason, hence why it didn't get a comment at my usual super speeds. But I can say this for certain: I absolutely love the Neutral Special and everything it encompasses. It's sort of like how I really loved G-Man's intangibility mechanic back in MYM12 (and still do), and something about tying the opponent in place feels right for the character despite the fact that he doesn't seem to have any character. The playstyle and what the character is trying to do are respectable to some degree, even if he's basically just a pirate version of Marth (but the watery hitbox is pretty cool), and it's nice that he has at some traps he can use to take advantage of his X-trap. If anything, some of the stuff in the set feels a bit forced and awkward because of the way the mechanic works. You're forced to use certain attacks that don't use the mechanic if you want to save it, and there are a few attacks that let you not use the mechanic but feel really forced and disjointed from the fact that you have to use it on some of your standard attacks. The Smashes are also strange in that they require you to have water if you want a trap but don't use it up, so if you do use up water for a strong attack you can't just set-up afterwards. There are some cool thing you can do with the water like with the F-air and a few of the standard attacks, but it's a one-time and you have to wait 5 seconds to do it later, leaving you a bit vanilla. I think the set is really restrained by the mechanic being passive: it forces the rest of the set to bend to its will and creates an inconsistent feel. It would probably have been a lot better as a Special, but such would be untrue to the character. At the moment, the set is sort of a very weak like for me, barely held up by its very fun Neutral Special and respectable gameplan.
Also, I think the F-air is way overpowered for what is Marth's F-air, being able to kill at 100% through the sweetspot.[/collapse]
[collapse="ForwardArrow"]Kunkka
I really have to make a DoTA2 set sometime, given how much of my free time it soaks up now, but suffice to say this is a set I'm fairly glad to see made. The use of the tidebringer passive is simple but honestly pretty interesting what with how it basically creates a double sized copy of the hitbox over top of the original. You don't really get to conserve it either, meaning pulling off the particularly powerful hits or abusing the water aspect of it properly will take some work, though Kunkka has some fairly interesting tools to make it work, between his puddles/water zoning moves and X Marks the Spot. Admittedly you got the wrong animation on X Marks the Spot but I can't fault you because that logically seems like what it would be, sadly the game is a fair bit cartoonier than you might've thought in that respect. At any rate, its one of the more interesting uses of sweetspot heavy stuff I've seen with how the extended sword works into it and the various spacing techniques in the set... up until the grab game, which may as well not exist. Its not the worst it could be when you at least give us a full set of throws, but it shows you clearly ran out of steam and its a pretty big shame when the aerials start out with 2 of the best moves in the set. Still, it comes across as surprisingly well characterized given you don't know the character that insanely well and the playstyle is pretty fun on a whole, so good work.[/collapse]
[collapse="MasterWarlord"]MEME BOAT
Ignoring balance, Kunkka is a pretty fun moveset with a great interpretation of a passive cleave mechanic, and it’s very impressive you managed to get as much mileage out of it as you did to use as a moveset basis. The specials, smashes, and some of the standards are all pretty great stuff. Moreso than just the aerials, the throws could really do with more than generic spacing when you have both X Marks the Spot and the anchor, as they and the usually better defined melee game should have you more than covered for those sorts of basic needs.
The moveset feels very overpowered to me with it only taking 5 seconds to recharge tidebringer. The numbers on range and knockback are universally very high with it out, and it feels like it’d be very difficult to actually whiff with it in several cases. When Tidebringer also recharges so easily, I also don’t know how much purpose the moves that don’t waste the cooldown are, seeing it will be back very quickly anyway. X Marks the Spot, Torrent, and binding the foe to an anchor in tandem also feels like a bit of overkill and borders on lockdown, and isn’t as easily handwaved as the scarily strong numbers in the moveset.[/collapse]
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[collapse="Katapultar"]Baby Bowser is... okay. The Specials are at Mii Fighter quality level, but the set surprisingly gets -better- as it goes on. Which is to say, I found the B-air and F-throw funny. I'd say he's better than Scorpion, and that he's a good offering for the MYM16 SM I will probably write when the contest comes to a close.[/collapse]
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[collapse="JOE!"]Fi
Here we have a refreshingly "grounded" set that still manages to be creative in both character and function.
The specials fit fi like a sheath, with the trademark skyward strike, an interesting pirroutte reminiscent of the mach tornado, and two moves I feel you under sell. Dowsing Strike is a mix of Shield Breaker and Homing Attack which mixed with her great spacing maneuvers makes for a deadly "bubble" around her that she can use as combo space. Making sure foes are in said bubble is the Trial Gate which feels criminally underdeveloped. You have a unique area denial move that simply stops folks from moving through it, but I assume anything else could move past. This highlights her dancing, spacing playstyle even more as she can force foes to stick around that "bubble" I mentioned. A bit more details into how it works would have been nice.
Aside from that, her ability to shrink into a skinny sword form is certainly interesting, as is her grab game. I love the way the grab works as more a "net" than a tether or such to add to its range, able to catch multiple opponents. However, the mirrored skyward strike throw takes a little away from the normal one in her arsenal imo.
Overall a very enjoyable read that brings out Fi's character in a vet fitting fashion. The only complaint would be to look into the %s your smashes are dealing. Not even ganon tosses out 25% per smash uncharged![/collapse]
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[collapse="JOE!"]Groose
The writing is to the point and hilarious here. The side B especially slayed me with the image of Groose tiptoeing ala Fred Flintstone with the bomb. The photoshopped pictures were fun as well. Many of the same compliments should be said for Groose as I mentioned with Fi. The characterization is great, and the dual grab is a nice touch that still managed to be different from Fi's wide grab. The useage of the Bomb Flowers here and there was a nice touch of characterization along with his "Bully" grapple style.
However, he has a few problems, mainly just the Uair and Neutral B. The Uair while not as bad, is just sort of a weird move in how it's a command grab yet not. The Nspec however is a different case in that I feel it really has no place in the set. For example, on the ground you have a grab that hits on both sides of you to cover "foes going by you" for your grapple strings. In the air, you have Down B which will rush your forward as well as immediately grba at point blank going by the description. And for a suicide (which I think this does?) he has the Up B slam down. Aside from a KO move, what is the purpose of this grapple? He already has strong finishers throughout the set, so its not like it is super needed for him, and he would tech chase better with his normal gab and down B (or even Up B) anyways.
Overall, another great set by you.[/collapse]
[collapse="Katapultar"]This set probably has your best writing style and is the most amusing to read...period. And that grab game blows Duck Hunt Dog out of the grass. It's a gem, and not just because the Groose is finally loose.
I wish I could like this set, and that its execution as an actual set lived up to the humour, but that wasn't the case for me. I don't think the Specials were all that conceptually strong, as is maybe the case with a few of your recent sets, and you've done better. That makes it a bit more difficult to like the set, compared to say Lore. There are some fun animations like with the Up Special, bomb uses in the standard attacks and grab, so maybe you could have had a basic bomb attack like Link's you can play around with to make use of the grab. The set is definitely one of your more fun ones though, and a more convincing set of Specials would have made it one of your best.[/collapse]
[collapse="Bionichute"]Pretty Loose
Groose is a fairly good set. It manages to both show Groose's INCREDIBLE MANLINESS and his buffoonery at the same time, while doing a neat grappling type playstyle. My only real complaints are the lack of detail, and the Grabs. The problem with the Grabs is that you really don't make use of being able to grab two opponents at once. You could have some neat chain grabbing stuff with the other command grabs, but it mostly just boils down to "Doing more damage".[/collapse]
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[collapse="JOE!"]Ravio
This guys gives me Robin vibes in a good way. The usage of all the items is done very cleverly, and you even find efficient use of his little bird friend thingy. Pretty much echoing my comments of the other two Zelda sets, the characterization is superb (The Specials and throws I especially liked), but there are some things that are sort of missing from the move descriptions that leave me wanting more (as well as the whole Smash attack thing... at least list both the uncharged and charged %'s to avoid confusion?).
In essence, here and there some moves are just missing something. The Sand Rod for example isn't really clear if it is a wall or not. Going by the picture it seems to be, but then you say it acts as a platform as to imply you could go beneath it? Also, while u can have 1 "area" of them at a time, can you have 3 different pillars spread out among the stage? The Dsmash Bomb also states that there is a way to move it "later in the set", yet that is never mentioned again, just a little something that bugged me. The Fair also felt a little OP if still cool when combined with a delayed Usmash. Near an edge you could have 2 arrows (or more depending on Fair's lag and such) that fall and make a wall of spike-tacular death (not to mention the Ice rod) that makes Ravio incredibly scary at edgeguarding. Luckily that seems to be balanced out by his rather crappy recovery to make it sort of a "he can taste his own medicine" kind of deal, but still. Actually, between the Fire Rob making a moving wall of fire to cover edge jumps, the sand rod to make pillars at the edge to limit options, and the ice rod making a falling projectile and arrows, he has quit the cool edge defense going on that you didn't really mention! Well, there is also no playstyle section, so yeah...
Overall, Ravio rounds out this great set of three Zelda sets that combine a "grounded" smash feel while still being creative and very true to character. Aside from a few hiccups here and there, well done man.[/collapse]
[collapse="Katapultar"]Ravio is one of your more creative sets and a nice return to the department of neat concepts. It has a bit of interesting playground with the cool projectile smashes (especial arrow reaching a sand pillar), to the point where I somewhat wish maybe like the Side Special did more, but the Specials do all serve their own purpose otherwise and are fairly solid. Delayed hitboxes are always fun, and the execution with mish-mashing them together is certainly not bad, possibly some of the strongest in any of your sets and a well-founded playstyle. The only real point against the set with how it works at the moment is that your sand pillar can shut off your own projectile game, but it's nothing terrible and is good for the arrow interaction. I also like being able to carry the dsmash bomb with the Up Special, maybe along the side of the wall to meet opponents. It may not flow all the time, but this is a solid attempt at playground and possibly your best set. Which is great, man, and all the more impressive since you apparently pulled it off in 3 hours.[/collapse]
[collapse="FrozenRoy"]Raviolink
Ravio is a neat little ChaosKiwi set for, well, Ravio, a neat character from A Link Between Worlds.
Ravio is the kind of set where the character pulling out a lot of items makes sense, due to the fact that he is a merchant who sells them, and as can be seen even has neat images of him using the items! The primary crux of this moveset comes from the four Rod items in his Specials: The Sand Rod is probably the one that will stand out most to MYMers, due to the fact it involves terraforming, and while the terraforming is not very intense I am quite okay with that, as Ravio really should not be a huge terraformer and the terraforming here, allowing Ravio to make various vantage points, is pretty nice.
Along with that, Ravio can fire off a delayed chunk of ice with his Ice Rod, and it is neat how it somewhat works into his Sand Rod pillars because Ravio can better play with the ice diamond when it is launched from a higher vantage point, allowing him to play a little king of the sand hill with it. The Fire Rod, meanwhile, creates a slowly advancing inferno that Ravio is fast enough to even outrun and thus play around with, while being able to really take up some place with this slow moving projectile, which can force enemies onto the high ground where he has some moves to smack them or make them want to retreat and cede the high ground he can also use to him. The Tornado Rod is the only really purely boring one here, pretty much just a standard recovery, but it does have a little quirk or two that can work with the Sand Rod pillars. Perhaps it would have been fun if the Tornado Rod could interact with the other Rods, like blowing the icy diamond out in a direction or taking sand up with him? Food for thought. The Tornado Rod does gain some additional use later, though, so it isn't a bad move, just potentially even more there.
Ravio's smashes are also pretty nice: His Up Smash is neat because it goes high enough for Ravio to hit up his pillars, and the arrow goes slightly forward, so Ravio can "snipe" up at foes who want to use his Sand Pillars for himself, not to mention normal uses like edgeguarding or using the delay as the arrow comes down for offensive purposes, especially since the arrow is a bit stronger on the way down. Ravio can also throw a boomerang with his Forward Smash, but he can move while it is in the air much like Link/Young Link and the boomerang will keep flying even if he intentionally dodges it, giving him a nice travelling hitbox to work with: It isn't anything revolutionary, but it is a very solid move that works into his playstyle nicely. It is also fun that, much like the arrow works better on the way down, the boomerang is a bit different on the way back, trading in damage for more raw KO power, so Ravio even has reasons to perhaps want to miss with his boomerang and have it come back to hit the foe, or to launch it seemingly away from himself, then approach the foe so this more powerful boomerang comes flying in while Ravio is dealing with the foe. Finally, Ravio can place a bomb with his Down Smash, which is a fairly standard bomb and again nothing revolutionary, but the way he can blow it around with the Tornado Rod, raise it up with the Sand Rod or use it as a quick getaway from his high perches or whatnot gives it a good deal of playstyle relevance and makes it a fun move.
In general, Ravio stumbles in the areas outside the quite nice Specials and Smashes, though they are usually not bad as much as they are not good or bland: I like the idea of the Sheerow moves and I even find the Up Tilt good, it works into his playstyle well, but I do not feel that many of the Sheerow moves do fit in. The Down Tilt is also a nice move and, while it isn't anything to write home about, it is one of those generally relevant moves you put into a set that plays into his game that plays with air foes. In general, though, the aerials and grab game do not have as much relevance to the set, though I did like how Sheerow can chuck bombs around, it is a nice little touch that can work into the playstyle, though I wonder why Sheerow cannot chuck them up/down as well. The Down Throw is also pretty nice, especially when you realize that since the Sand Rod lets him make pillars he can use this to sort of spike foes on the stage, which can lead to some fun stuff, so it isn't like the grab section is bad or anything, they're just not particularly good.
Ravio feels like one of your better sets overall, Kiwi, it has a more focused playstyle and it has more to work into it, and while it is far from perfect it is a solid set worth taking a look at. I'm hoping you can make more sets like this, not necessarily in how it plays, but in how it has solid flowing to it, especially compared to your other sets.[/collapse]
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[collapse="Katapultar"]Welcome to Make Your Move! You've certainly got an interesting way of presenting details, and that character quote is quite fitting. No beating around the bush here.
There's a good understanding of the way attacks work, and the damage percentages are handled nicely despite the fact that you're unsure... If anything, I'd say that your U-tilt, D-tilt and N-air could be a bit stronger and have their sweetspots deal 10-11%, as they seem underpowered compared to some other moves with reasonable percentages. It's also reasonable to have throws that deal 8-12% on average, or at least in Make Your Move, unless you're going for something like Marth.
From what I get, the set uses a prop on every input, which is pretty admirable and represents his game (even though little attention is called to it in the intro, though I guess the premise is obvious enough). It would have been fun if War Mage's stupidity was represented in his set though, like in his attack animations, mostly because they're brought to attention at the start. The set is pretty basic with Specials drawing comparisons from Smash, but I do like the idea of the inaccurate crossbow and think it's an interesting, original idea. It actually kind of represents War Mage's stupidity, and I can imagine hilarious moments where you accidentally set off your own bombs because of a random stray arrow. I love it.
This is actually a very good start for a first set, and I look forward to seeing if you can throw out more. You might want to put replies and the set itself in separate posts in the future, though.[/collapse]
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[collapse="ChaosKiwi"]EPHRAIM
Well, I'm glad to see you have a lot of enthusiasm, putting out a second set already. However, this one seems pretty rushed. Namely, the utter lack of knockback and damage. Like, those are pretty essential. The thing is this isn't, in theory, a bad set. There's a lot of potential here, it's just so barebones that it's near impossible to give commentary more than "add more information".[/collapse]
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[collapse="Getocoolaid"]Carbink
Man, I love Fairy Pokemon. I know it's cool to hate on Carbink, but I've not had any sort of ill will towards the thing, kind of thinking of it as a more fabulous Geodude.
Anyway, I really like this simple little set. Stealth Rock is used in an exceedingly clever way here, especially in regards to things like fall-through platforms and grabbing. The set doesn't do anything revolutionary, but it works, and it sure as hell uses everything that the character can conceivably do in without being OOC. So, yes I quite like it, it's possibly one of my favorites of yours, Kiwi. Keep it up![/collapse]
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[collapse="Katapultar"]I found Venusaur hard to like as a set. Overgrow is a neat little mechanic, but the Specials felt lackluster to the point where the Standards couldn't play off them much, resulting in them being very meta and read-based in a manner which any character could do. This doesn't make for a totally entertaining read, but I can understand why you would go for such in your movesets given what you look for in sets. Solarbeam, which is Ivysaur's Neutral Special from Project M, is a pretty respectable move on its own, but having to use Overgrow on the other Specials whenever you have enough of it seems like it would be quite annoying. Like if Little Mac could and had to use portions of his power meter on his Specials, though Venusaur's case is easily solved by making it so the player has to smash the input to get the effect.
If there's one thing I have to credit you for, it's that you did a very good job in capturing the Grass-type feel in Venusaur, from the poisoning, healing and even aerial vulnerability to mirror its flying-type weakness. It fits Venusaur, being the first Grass-type. It's just that I couldn't get excited for the set when it doesn't really play off what little it has, making it a very average set in my eyes.[/collapse]
[collapse="ForwardArrow"]Venusaur
I won't deny that the set was made a bit more likeable by the edits you made, giving him a more clear playstyle and actually giving a further use of the Overgrow stacks with charging the Smashes faster... albeit I really don't think its all that insanely useful a change in the grand scheme, but anything to do with them is nice. That being said, I found this set to be pretty disappointing with how little presence Overgrow felt like it had on the set past the Specials, which I can respect on some level because you want to let Venusaur build up stacks and not expend them on every move or force every move to rely on them. However the rest of the set doesn't feel like it supports the Specials very well even without Overgrow getting involved, at most just creating follow ups into them with the throws or just having the odd healing sweetspot(I don't really see why a powder cloud hitting someone should heal you when it sweetspots either, nothing indicates a life drain). Its basically just Project M Ivysaur with a slight modification to how the Specials work in the end, which isn't bad for functionality, but all the set really accomplishes is functionality and nothing more.
Though really speaking of functionality, that Up Aerial is kind of terrible. There's no reason to attach a weak pitfall effect to that, many stronger stall then falls don't do that. I know Smash 4 randomly slapped a bunch of pitfalls onto people's movesets but that's frankly just bad design and aesthetics.[/collapse]
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[collapse="Katapultar"]I was actually looking forward to Charizard, because I thought you might do a unique take on him when he feels overly clunky in Smash and a bit off on the Specials. Giving him better jumps and making him floatier addressed one of those problems, but other than that he's basically Sm4sh Charizard with Rock Smash traded in for his (admittedly pretty cool) Project M Special. I know you're a massive fan of Project M Charizard due to mentioning it in your Skowl advertisement, but it sort of feels like you're just writing up an already-existing moveset when half of the animations are recycled from the real thing. Sort of reminds me of MYM 14 TAC being overly similar to the MYM 6 Rool version, and I'm really not a fan of copycat sets.
Onto the set itself, this particular Flamethrower is crazy overpowered: it goes twice as far as the real thing, pushes opponents back that far AND can be held out for a ridiculous 5 seconds. Oh, and you can use it offstage effectively given Charizard is floaty and has a good recovery, gimping opponents with insane ease. The real Flamthrower can only be held out for like, 1.5 seconds at most before it really starts shrinking down. It doesn't seem to take that long to recharge either, murdering offstage opponents and sometimes pushing them back too far to recover. That might be an exaggeration, and it can be number-crunched anyway. In any case, the move don't seem to have a lot of flow with the rest of the set, as it actually barely pushes opponents out of Flare Blitz's effective range, does a better job at dealing with offstage opponents than your air game ever could, and you don't really want to position opponents horizontally away from you.
Flare Blitz has the best flow in the set due to dragging opponents offstage and damaging Charizard for his rage mechanic, but it doesn't "feel" like Flare Blitz unlike the SSB4 attack: it's power and recoil are not very pronounced, but more that it's designed for a "conversion" move as you say and not a big KO move. It's still a good move in context of the set, though. The rest of the set can be a bit of a bore to read through and visualize properly due to the large number of different hitboxes on each attack which don't always play into something (even though that's really the case with some Smash sets), which might be partly due to 80% of the move animations being taken from the real Charizard. I do wish at the very least the Dash Attack had a different animation.
Overall, Charizard feels like a personal set trying to stay overly true to the original. It has a similar feel to Venusaur in that the Specials don't feel all that exciting, even though they can be played off a bit more, highly lacking originality. Can't help but walk away disappointed by you not doing anything unique or really new with Charizard despite you being more than capable of such.[/collapse]
[collapse="ForwardArrow"]Charizard
I came away from Charizard with almost nothing to say about it, and because its a much more extreme case than Venusaur in that unlike Venusaur it doesn't even really have an interesting mechanic too it, just being "the more damage is dealt the more damage you deal", basically impossible to work off of in any enjoyable way especially when the effect is as small as it is. Yes he functions perfectly fine with no Blaze going, but at that point the mechanic may as well not exist. The set otherwise really just feels like Brawl Charizard with improved animations in a couple areas... and a few worse ones, I really hate the idea of Charizard beating people with his wings as a means of attack. He's a damn dragon, beating people with his wings is hardly an effective means of combat. I know its in Brawl, but Sakurai is not exactly faultless(again, see stuff like random exploding Pikmin custom specials in Smash 4).[/collapse]
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[collapse="Katapultar"]Blastoise is definitely better than the other 2 sets, having more flow, some better Specials and a mechanic that doesn't feel obstructive. All the Specials feel remotely interesting: Up Special with its pushing and gimping, Neutral Special with its recoil, power and range, Side Special controlling your spacing and Down Special for its various effects, though I do think raindrops increasing falling speed is rather tacky. Rain Dance might seem a bit powerful, but it's really not that bad given the starting lag, and how your Neutral and Side Special contribute to giving you the spacing necessary to pull it off. If anything, only the increased falling speed seems a bit overpowered against foes trying to recover since you can just use it when they're trying to get back onstage, and it makes landing timing-based moves like your F-air more difficult.
Torrent feels better-handled here than Overgrow, namely because there's a better choice of moves it affects and the effects it gives out of them are a bit more interesting. They are all power moves you would want to save for later and arguably use from a distance, which is likely where you'll want to be when charging up Torrent. The set just sort of appeals to me with the neat all-purpose Side Special that can bash through foes or space for you, and you've got some means of taking advantage of the spacing you receive. It helps that the set is somewhat self-aware of its Specials, with moves like the U-air being dedicated to knocking enemies sideways so it can set-up for moves like Hydro Cannon which need enemies next to you.[/collapse]
[collapse="ForwardArrow"]Blastoise
I feel like this set turned out better than the other two because its not some kind of weird idealization of a Project M set, because Blastoise can't really be a semi-cloned Squirtle given the cannons on his back. The mechanic comes across as very similar to Kunkka's, and honestly the product is much worse on account of not really having anything to it beyond building up power for the mechanic, not really having the kind of interesting zoning/sweetspot stuff Kunkka did, or at least not to the same degree. I probably shouldn't compare it to Kunkka when you haven't even read the set, but the similarities are so obvious it makes it much harder to appreciate what on a whole comes across as a weaker attempt at the same thing.
Its not really a bad set on its own merits though, the animations feel a lot more satisfying than those of his two counterparts, the moves have more defined purposes, and it hits an aspect the other 2 missed out on, it feels fun to play, as the results feel a lot more tangible than the numbers-y stuff that feels like it ultimately has little impact in the first two. I still feel that it could afford to get more creative with the use of the mechanic and honestly it comes across as not having all that much depth to his playstyle(and frankly I think the 30 second variation of the cannons is almost never going to see use), but its by no means bad.[/collapse]
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[collapse="ForwardArrow"]Damon Gan- I mean Judge Nemo
Well this was quite a pleasant surprise, I didn't really expect a set from you this spontaneously, and better yet I think it turned out really good. The set is basically a huge extension of Michael Reynolds' dummy men, making pretty much an entire set of them given the character can basically do nothing else... and honestly, I think it worked out better than I could have expected. Being able to turn the monsters into weapons and back, as well as switching control to one of the more competent ones as a means to protect Nemo with his hilariously bad weight and jump animation gives him a surprising amount of viability for how mechanically awkward he is. It still is quite underpowered I think, mostly because the early part of the match before he gets a good set up is a very painful one with how frail his minions are and frankly he doesn't even snowball all that hard. I actually think that's a good thing as it means once he gets going he has to be very proactive and do interesting stuff with his minions rather than sitting back and letting them do the work, but with how bad he is before he gets going or if he ever gets fully exposed he definently could afford to be a bit stronger. To round out the negative, its a small thing but unless its an actual thing from the game I kind of hate the Mothman having a random Pokemon move thrown into his set, as putting Pokemon moves in non-Pokesets is a longstanding cliche in MYM but a really terrible one.
The actual playstyle is pretty great though despite that, as I mentioned how proactive he has to be with using the minions makes him very interesting and fun to imagine playing as in a way a lot of set up characters are not. Obviously when you dedicate as much of the set as you do to the minions they better be good, and they are, among my favorites being the cockatrice, the zombie, and the dragon zombie, although almost all of them are fun, whether because of the minion itself or the fusion/magichange effects, often all 3. The main set doesn't have much stuff to mess with the minions on account of being so dedicated to making the, but they play off each other in pretty interesting ways. And besides the Professor is plenty good if you want to mess around with and tweak the minions anyway, having almost a full moveset within the set dedicated to that purpose, albeit being rather high risk high reward with how the minion works. So yes, I really like the set, albeit I could see the balance and slightly strange input use not being everyone's cup of tea.[/collapse]
[collapse="MasterWarlord"]SUPERVILLIAN GANT
Nemo is a very strange set. Immediate concerns are brought up against a moveset that appears to be from the forgotten age of MYM 5, with a character who summons minions on absolutely every move. Similar to Reynolds, the minions attack as they are created, though, and he can just pick moves based off the hitboxes/defense rather than the minion spawned. He also has immediate access to regular movesets with the Neutral Special minions that he can take direct control of. The coolest method of direct attack Nemo has, though, is turning his minions into weapons that keep some of the old properties of the minions. There’s so many ways to manipulate the minions with the weapons, combining them, and the professors, that this really is the ultimate “create a minion” moveset in existence, bar none. It still goes out of its way to be a moveset that can fight, though. If anything, the moveset leans towards overpowered, especially when he can just blip out of existence until a certain minion is killed with Up B. I don’t think it’s especially imbalanced, though, when he actually does have to abuse his extensive defensive options to survive due to his massive frailness.
You demonstrated with the Neutral Special that minions can be contained within a single input, and it’s still very awkward having all of these moves dedicated to minions. Doesn’t it seem odd that Nemo has to dash to summon a certain minion, or jump in the air to summon others (Especially when you make a big point of making his grounded jump laggy)? It still works on a basic level due to the attacks being present, but I think you still could have managed a better job mapping this all out. On the other hand, it seems like this may have been the best way to do it for characterization, given he never actually fights. I also find it a bit off that the movesets of the battlearmor and androids don’t exist and that the professor is missing aerials, but again, it’s very easy to ignore given the wealth of content present in the moveset. I would say that you should make those minions only have a handful of attacks like the rest, but I do like that you’ve given Nemo several movesets which he can play from when he actually wants them. While there is awkwardness present, it can all really be justified in one way or another. This is easily my favorite set of yours, Kat.[/collapse]
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[collapse="ForwardArrow"]Dhoulmagus
So now that this set is edited up with a good last set of moves, I'm very impressed with the final result. Its nice to see a set that uses duplicates with no intention of wasting their potential on mindgames, instead using them to create a powerful spacing game with their desyncronizing and ways of controlling each other's positioning, as well as defending each other or making their deaths not in vain, as the duplicates are extremely flimsy. There is the promise of a very powerful grab game as a reward if you line all these things up, though its not easy especially when your setup has a tendency to set itself on fire.
How exciting his spacing material is tends to vary between moves, its never dull but the real highlights are the Smashes/Jab/Fair(I always wanted wind hitbox moves that changed projectile speed to become a thing, they're a lot more interesting than a straight reflector albeit fairly weak). That said there's a lot of simple appeal in having the duplicates be able to use pseudo counters, or teleport opponents between the group of them. I do feel that some of the moves feel a bit impractical to use for melee at times(DSmash comes to mind, great as it is, as well as the Fair's lack of damage) but the amount of this is a lot less than in the older version and its worth sacrificing what ultimately is a tiny amount of practicality to fulfill the sets vision.[/collapse]
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[collapse="ForwardArrow"]Sir Leopold
This was a set that really surprised me, because I didn't know how much mileage you could really get out of this character compared to Dhoulmagus. The status effects that serve as both a buff and a debuff and the ability to use them on the wolf minions as well as the foe would be enough to keep the set interesting, but then you can strip away the buffs on the foe via Up Special and play into their newfound debuffs in a variety of interesting ways, such as creating more things the foe has to attack to build up Savage Fury. Of course there's no lack of great aspects to the way the dogs are used too, a lot of interactions with them are very fun such as fighting over the foe in a throw. The real selling point though is the ability to swap bodies between dogs, which start weak but grow over time as you stay in the weaker body, as well as using the status effects you applied to them to keep yourself remotely competent in this gimped form.
The characterization is really fun too, with the way Rhapthorne manipulates this pack of otherwise very dumb animals into a group of proper killing machines, but he has to be careful, as this is the most vulnerable he's ever been with the very mediocre body he's been given. Its emphasized in that despite his giant size, his attacks are rather underwhelming without good use of dogs, buffs, and debuffs, and lends the set to an incredible amount of depth. In all honesty there's very little for me to complain about, there's little to no redundancy and every move barring a couple aerials is fun and adds a lot to his game, and even in the case of said aerials they're hardly bad, just a bit underwhelming compared to the rest of the set. This is easily better than anything you made in MYM15.[/collapse]
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[collapse="ForwardArrow"]Wizzro
I can see why you think this set is your best, because it does function in a more interesting way than your sets normally do, with the hitboxes in the moveset being supposed to work in a fairly heavy trapper/camper-ish fashion, but there being specific points in the range he wants to zone them too to profit off different attacks. It actually is pretty interesting, albeit there's not really enough in the way of tools to get foes to the specific parts of your attacks, if that was more of a focus I could see this set being strong enough conceptually for a vote. The main thing holding it back though, aside from just not flowing well enough, is that the set makes several moves a fair bit too powerful with each individual hitbox dealing as much damage as you'd expect all hits on the given input COMBINED to do. Now admittedly you won't always hit with every component of the attack, but the possibility of a projectile Side Special dealing up to 80% is ridiculous, and a few other moves(Nair and the Down Special come to mind) have similarly ridiculous damage potential. If it wasn't feasible to hit with all the hitboxes at once it wouldn't be a big deal, but given it is the set ends up being very overpowered.
As a last nitpick, I kind of wish you had given us an image for the Spirit Fish. I found it rather unbelievable he could just summon evil fish when I first saw it but if you had some picture evidence it'd be reassuring.[/collapse]
[collapse="MasterWarlord"]WIZZERD
Wizzro has a more coherent playstyle than your usual fare, though the main reasons seem to be choosing a magical character that can do most anything and doing a simple playstyle of camping. While just camping is a bit boring, the moveset seems even remotely self aware like Pompy was, and I think the individual moves are trying a good bit harder in this one than Pompy. The moves aren’t the same thing over and over, though I wish they were relevant to the playstyle for more reasons than being long range/projectiles. An obvious example of something you could do would be for him to store and release projectiles with portals.
The numbers are a bit off still, but it doesn’t really hurt the moveset for balance at this point and just presents a small bit of awkwardness here and there. Hopefully playing SSB4 should give you some good experience.
I know that the bthrow turning Wizzro into the foe is something he does, but something that big needs to be central to the character’s gameplay. As of now, it could be placed on another moveset and be just as relevant to them (Ignoring aesthetics). A move like this is also kind of strange on a throw, and would sooner be a Special. If you don’t want to make a commitment that big to the shapeshifting (It is very difficult to make a key element in a moveset), Wizzro does a lot of things and it wouldn’t be unheard of to uninclude it in the main moveset – the Final Smash could be a decent place for this if you want to add it in just for the sake of it.[/collapse]
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[collapse="ForwardArrow"]Steven Chapman
I don't dislike the concept of piling up objects in your cart to use as a weapon, though honestly I think it was a bit of a mistake the way you executed it, not really having any fun things to do with them once they're in the cart and the fact that honestly the cart has a completely ridiculous capacity. 5 zombies would not fit in that thing, and you provide no limit for anything else, so you could potentially pile 7 Bowsers into the thing in 8 player smash along with 5 zombies, 15 Exploding Crates, and insert colossal minions/traps of your choice here. Also given the thing is covered in blades and his main means of attack in the boss fight, it should deal more than 2% on contact. Aside from that, after introducing the zombies you basically give nothing we can put into the cart, and its kind of unfair your opponent is going to do that favor for you as most Brawl characters and several MYM sets don't.[/collapse]
[collapse="MasterWarlord"]BLACK FRIDAY
First off, the moveset really needs to put caps on how many foes can be inside Steven’s cart, and to lower the amount of zombies that can fit. The clipping would be insane with 5 zombies, and this is something the moveset wants to feasibly happen. While it’s strange that zombies somehow can’t attack the guy that will never leave the cart, I’ll ignore that since there are bigger problems and the character is pretty hilarious. It’s more strange that Steven gets buffs for having more things in the cart, and basically has super strength to be able to move the cart around with that many things on it in moves like dsmash, dair, and uair. If anything, it should be more difficult to move the cart around in these kinds of moves.
The recovery is a very weak move, and probably should’ve been replaced with the dashing attack on a special. Several attacks seem physically impossible while using the dashing attack, along with others in general like the uair. The primary purpose of zombies appears to be to throw them so you can jump on them with Up B to recover. . .It’ a very awkward moveset badly cobbled together, but it’s awkward in a pretty hilarious way that vaguely works for the character. Just don’t try to pull some of these things off on a more “normal” character.
. . .Then I realized the character doesn’t work if there are multiples of him in the match. Not making the cart be a hurtbox in any form was a strange decision and wasn’t thought about in remote detail. Two Chapmans walking into each other will cause them to just walk against each other forever. With these massive cart “shields” in front of the Chapmans, they will never be able to hit each other without jumping to try to get behind the other guy. Whichever one gets impatient and jumps will be put at an immediate disadvantage, as the other Chapman will undoubtedly catch him. If one somehow gets behind the other one, he can easily just turn around and get the cart “shield” in front of himself again.
Upon catching another Chapman in your cart, he’ll clip out of the cart because he’s so big. . .Right in front of the hitbox at the front of your cart, probably, and if the Chapman who caught the other one moves he’ll hit him with the passive moving hitbox infinitely. Since the Chapman in the cart is technically still “against a wall”, he won’t be able to take knockback and will get infinited. If you bring even more Chapmans into the picture. . .Yeah, just think about it for two seconds. This was a hilarious diversion, but you seem to be best when sticking with simple characters, Geto.[/collapse]
[collapse="Katapultar"]Others have already addressed the problems with the set and how the cart works, in that it is awkward and unfun to fight against when the enemy constantly has to go around it to attack Steve. Granted, I don't think the cart idea is inherently bad, just the way it was handled in how you make it permanently affixed to the character. Sure, Steve is never seen without his cart in his boss fight, and it's specialized to boot, but it restrains a lot of his potential and forces him to resort to awkward maneuvers like those seen in the set. I really think you could have gotten a lot of mileage out of just having the cart summoned on a Special, where you could keep it out as a disjointed obstacle you could not only ride on to do all your tricks you can only do on your cart, but also use it as a projectile to ram enemies with and what not. Or, you could make Steve have the cart on his person at the start and be able to detach himself with it, summon a new one if it goes offstage. Sets these days are closer to Smash Bros than ever, so we don’t really need gimmicks ruling over them to impress others like in MYM11-12 and what not. Also, being able to jump off things forever with the Up Special is weird for the character, flavor-wise.
For all its problems, there were parts about the set that I found somewhat charming. I enjoyed the humorous headers, for one, and found the animation of the N-air strangely vivid and interesting. No other characters fights while riding on a shopping cart, so there are things that Steve can do that only he can do, even if it’s mostly attacking from behind due to limitations. The set is fine for the movement and even hilarious, but the character definitely has potential and could make for an insanely unique set with how he could take out weapons from his cart and we already know he’s pretty creative given how loaded the cart is to begin with. It would certainly be fun to revisit in the future.[/collapse]
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[collapse="ForwardArrow"]Brandon
What bugs me about this set from the start is that the zombies don't seem to actually hurt the opponent, only gripping onto them, and there's no way to have more than two out. I guess I can see why you'd take that approach to prevent them from being too obtrusive, but I still wish there was a way to increase their numbers and that they had more means of attack than setting them up for Brandon's attacks. That said after the awkward start the set does get a bit better, while it never does anything terribly exciting the moves at least early on are designed to create some interesting spacing situations for zombies, allowing him much more defined control over them than a foe while still not making him invulnerable too them. And while I'm not totally sure making the wasps deal 2 seconds of stun to zombies when they die was the best decision, it feels surprisingly tolerable as a use of stun given how little it will happen in a given match and that it can backfire. Its an improvement from Fulci for sure.
All the same I do think the moves lose the interesting nature of their spacing element later on, in the throws/aerials there's still some aspect of that to foes, but zombies just kind of get left in the dark. It'd be fine if the melee game wasn't really bland without zombies present, though at least there's any depth to it. And I'm going to go out of my way to mention two things. One, swinging a protest sign downwards to boost yourself into the air is a ridiculous way to recover and the animation feels more suited to a Dair, and its rather random for him to just pull out this prop all of a sudden. Two, I'm just going to say now that custom specials are pretty much completely irrelevant to me and I think they were a poor addition to Smash 4, so if that was meant to be a selling point for the set it didn't work, though I will say I was pleasantly surprised that none of the custom specials really felt bad or like they directly outclassed another move.[/collapse]
[collapse="MasterWarlord"]ACCURATE PARODY
The main thing that has to be brought up immediately is that the zombies just grab people, restrain them, then let them go. There is no pummeling, no biting, no nothing from these zombies. Maybe Brandon is right and these zombies really are upstanding people? Even if delicious raw meat is placed on the foe or you send them into a bloodlust, they still won’t take so much as one bite out of the foe. The only instance of biting is in the intro animation, and that turns an NPC into a zombie despite it later being said that the wasps are the actual cause of the zombie plague?
There probably need to be more than two zombies. The point of these things is that there’s so many of them, generally. You’re the first set I’ve seen to feature so heavily fighting alongside such a low number of unnamed zombies. The glass shard is a remotely fun weapon for a low potential character like this, and the dulling/sweetspot mechanic was interesting. Of course, I’d be lying through my teeth if I said I wasn’t very bored throughout the reading of this set. The multiple specials get into self parody territory pretty quickly, what with him flapping a protest sign to recover, a wasp that is cooperative so long as Brandon keeps moving, taking out a gun to use on one alternate special, and superspeed teleportation after trying to prove that Brandon is an average weakling for most of the set (Save for some. . .Rather heavyweight throws). They do provide some much needed variety after the monotony of the main set, and they’re a fun read for the wrong reasons.[/collapse]
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[collapse="ForwardArrow"]Slappy
I'm going to say that this set isn't a very strong one in terms of concepts, as the core is simply creating fire traps and attacking in motion, both concepts that rarely end up going in productive directions. You get surprising mileage out of both, partially with the fairly simple concept of just setting every prop that shows up in the set on fire and having fun with that. Its not a particularly complex approach, but with the item combining in Down Special and the various ways you can create chain reactions of fire and explosions it ends up a surprisingly deep one, albeit not ever calculated enough to feel out of character for this incredibly manic character. The characterization is pretty fantastic on a whole.
The moves don't have super strong connection at points, some just being based around using the fact that you're in motion while attacking, though you at least find unique niches within that concept that feel a lot better than the ones used back in MYM11, such as the fact that the Down Tilt is most powerful when you're stopping(especially on gasoline) rather than at full speed. It does in a few cases get to being straight up filler, but given the character has that gigantic mask which he absolutely has to use to attack and there's not really much of anything you can do to flow with it, its enough that the attacks have any interesting nuances to them. All in all, its a very solid set and the best of the movement, and its more held down by the character's shallowness than mistakes on the part of the designer.[/collapse]
[collapse="MasterWarlord"]CASHMAN EMPLOYEE
Slappy’s playstyle offers little, though not much can be expected of the character and the individual moves all have some function. I like what you’ve done with his gimping game, as it prioritizes him actually surviving despite poor vertical recovery in an organic way that helps give life to a bland (powers wise) character you’d expect to have dull aerials. Momentum does much the same thing for the grab-game.
I especially like how you handled the “ammo” of the flamethrowers/dumping them for the gasoline inside. It’s obviously not something to get excited about, but the moveset knows it and doesn’t make a big deal out of it. Still, it’s treated as a very self-consistent mechanic that works naturally. That said, I do think 15 seconds without a flamethrower is a bit of a harsh penalty, especially when he needs the flamethrowers in order to actually make use of the gas at all. I would change it so that he gets the flamethrower back before the gas puddle expires (Say, 10 seconds) to enable him to better exploit it. You even suggest him giving up both of his flamethrowers to make a bigger puddle for some reason, when he will have nothing to set it off?
While the character’s simplistic abilities don’t do you any favors, you regularly make use of him to have some good characterization moments. The Down Special doesn’t feel like some competent villain performing set-up – it’s just the guy grabbing props as he skates around his store to burn up. He’s such an idiot he even forgot to bring gasoline to the fight, and has to empty it from his own weapons in order to get any. The props are all contained here instead of being placed throughout the moveset arbitrarily robbing him of attacks. It also enables the guy to not just take out a prop for every single attack and actually primarily fight the way he does in the game, making the few times he does take out props on regular inputs more organic.[/collapse]
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[collapse="ForwardArrow"]Loatheb
First of all, congrats on posting this movement, 5 sets in one go(and bonus Patchwerk today) is pretty impressive. And Loatheb turned out pretty well, though given the potential of the character I wonder if you could do more. The set starts off with the mushroom throwing items and poison and builds up several incentives to keep the opponent close and start slowly annihilating them with large amount of poison, as well as presenting an interesting way to end the match early in the spore clouds, which are somewhat necessary to his setup and create some fun high tension scenarios between players, that Loatheb can win out with his mushrooms and thorns, the later of which really was one of the most exciting parts of the set. A lot of moves are simple but they're rather necessary to allow him to keep the opponent fighting him up close and in the midst of poison, or to get one of your spore explosions from Side B to activate.
Now that said there are a few moves I felt were a bit below par, the Smashes felt a tad redundant with the Neutral Special in some respects and honestly not particularly impressive for Smashes on this character, which sticks out when the Smashes on even Patchwerk are pretty big standouts. And while I can get the need for spacing moves at times, the set has more of them than it really needs when with a character like this you have a lot of room to get creative. Its still a solid set though, and holds up well even when compared to the rest of the movement.[/collapse]
[collapse="MasterWarlord"]INTENTIONALLY BUFFING FOES: GMAN DTHROW, THE MOVESET
Loatheb regularly uses attacks that generate spore clouds that buff whoever is in them by 1.5x. This is necessary in some capacity due to the nature of the character, but it still could have been handled better. If nothing else, the concept is very unique, even though I’m unsure if I like the concept of something that can so heavily be used against Loatheb. This set could still have gone places with it presented how it is, but a lot of the melee is very, very, boring and uninspired. Much more boring than any of the other characters in the movement, who are trying significantly harder.
The thing that kills this moveset is the boss mode. It feels inherently underpowered to start with, but the “buff” clouds that Loatheb generates now directly nerf him for some inexplicable reason – he actively wants to avoid moves that create the clouds, and will even avoid hitting the sweetspot on his bair. The moveset wasn’t very suited for a boss mode to start with, and this one goes against everything the playstyle stands for while causing it to make even less sense. It’s a somewhat similar situation to Thaddius in that I want to focus on 1v1 only for Loatheb, but it’s harder to do when the boss mode usually included to improve a moveset is actively making it worse.[/collapse]
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[collapse="ForwardArrow"]Rivendare
This is the weakest of the non-one day Naxx sets and its likely because conceptually its a bit straightforward. Stack debuffs and profit off the moves that get better with more debuffs, or debuffs that get better with more debuffs. It plays out in a rather straightforward and agressive manner, but there certainly are bits that give it more depth, like the blood parasite, the move stealing counter, and the runes that can be knocked out of opponents. The set also surprisingly manages to avoid any real awkwardness with the horse, aside from the fact that due to him being only slightly bigger than any Brawl character overall resulting in Rivendare himself's model being tiny as a result. Aside from that the set might have a little too much magic and too little swordplay, but my nitpicks aside there's still a lot of fun had with the admittedly straightforward concept to make this set enjoyable.[/collapse]
[collapse="MasterWarlord"]MY LITTLE DEATH KNIGHT
I am not going to excuse the tiny size of Rivendare. He’s as tall as Ganondorf while mounted, making him personally shorter than Mario. Using the characters in Brawl as a standard is very awkward when it’s designed with cutesy tiny characters in mind, and he still looks horrifically out of place next to them. Even if you disagree, he at least needs to look consistent with other characters in the movement, who are all very large, with the Ganondorf sized Kel’Thuzad being smallest. Rivendare looks like a baby.
The change to make the mark last only 12 seconds was a good one, as it means he won’t just be stacking on status effects for the entire game. Doing this is still his goal none the less, and the status effects applied are very strange, largely trying to be unique for the sake of it. This is quite the contrast to Grobbulus, who did his best to play off very straightforward and boring status effects. Rivendare’s status effects can seem so pointless at times that it seems like their main purpose is just to get any status effect on the foe at all, as several moves reward you for quantity of them regardless of their purpose. The main status effects that actually do things are the ones that automatically charge smashes, and the payoff there isn’t big enough to sell me on the set. Beyond them, it’s moves that react in magical ways based off how many status effects the foe has, or just generic ones. Some status effects seem to be specialized for “team” play, which means they’re basically more generic moves meant to come into relevance on an unwritten boss mode that requires you to make 3 more movesets. At least Thaddius had the decency to have said boss mode that made those generic moves relevant actually included upon release.
Rivendare could really use some minions – he’s a Death Knight, it’s one of the things he does. He doesn’t have minions in his Hearthstone deck for strictly mechanical reasons, and Hearthstone obviously should not dictate characterization. If it does, his actual card should be taken into consideration – triggering deathrattle twice would be quite fun to abuse with minions.[/collapse]
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[collapse="ForwardArrow"]Patchwerk
I appreciate the extra addition to the movement a day late, and I assume there's still more to come. Patchwerk is a bit of a step above other sets that try to use multiple attacks at once in that the attacks feel much more dedicated to being used in tandem rather than just an afterthought for combos, and of course there's the rather fun frenzy and bleed mechanics too. The Smashes are a real highlight in that they provide cool ways to utilize all his current material like spreading around the defense limiting goop, creating divets in the stage that can provide extra hitboxes to make him harder to avoid, or serving as an attack that works very well into the hook strikes. The aerials and grab game barring one throw obviously are a bit lacking, but they're not explicitly bad and the rest of the set is fun enough to make it work out overall.[/collapse]
[collapse="MasterWarlord"]BERSERKER PUDGE
Patchwerk was an enjoyable take on the berserker archetype, and I was surprised you managed to balance these very scary mechanics of using multiple weapons at once in tandem with the powerful speed buffs. This moveset gets the most mileage out of more simplistic melee due to the two weapon mechanic compared to other sets in the movement. It actually managed to make an “anti-dodge” puddle in a way that I liked with some pretty great aesthetics on the dthrow, along with some moves to punish shielding foes to flow into his more offensive playstyle. Quite frankly, Grobbulus should be taking lessons from this guy. There still are some blander moves like the usmash floating around, but some degree of filler largely summarizes the entirety of my complaints with this one, leaving me quite happy with it by comparison.[/collapse]
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[collapse="ForwardArrow"]Grobbulus
This was a very wise addition to have in the movement, as it takes from something that was done a while back and not fully explored in mutations with both upside and downside, and rather than taking a combo-y approach to it takes a slightly more methodical one, given he can bestow the mutations to the oozes as well while not necessarily being as good at chaining hits as the other mutation user. The set keeps a fairly nice balance between the elements too, with the Smashes being more dedicated to slime manipulation, giving him a decent amount of fun stuff to manipulate slime.
The standards and aerials, while not as exciting as the former inputs, are very necessary to the set, as they provide Grobbulus with unique ways to take advantage of the mutations, making them clearly in his favor whether on the foe or him. I particularly like the fact that the Dash Attack creates a unique follow up for each of them, or that you can create a KOing hitbox if you strike any of them with FTilt, but he needs this kind of stuff if he wants to properly abuse the foe's hurtbox extensions and weight variation. Its all solid stuff, though I will say that the aerials are noticeably weaker than the standards in playing off the mutations and at points the minion and mutation aspects of the playstyle feel a touch constrained by each other's existnace, not having enough inputs to fully explore both. Its a fine set though, one of the best in the movement.[/collapse]
[collapse="MasterWarlord"]RETURN OF HEAVYWEIGHT COMBOING
One of Grobbulus’ biggest foundations is his throws. While the first two throws are acceptable, the fthrow isn’t one of the status effects constantly advertised throughout the set, it’s not part of the foundation. While the dthrow expanding the foe’s hurtbox and making them heavier is fine, the uthrow and bthrow are completely and utterly bizarre. From a gameplay standpoint, the uthrow only helps with KOs, while the bthrow outright helps foes! There is no way you will ever convince me that a quarter of your movement speed in exchange for superarmor against attacks that deal 8% or less is a bad trade. Granted, Grobbulus can steal the status effect, but why doesn’t he just apply this effect to himself directly? Aesthetically these two move are even worse. Grobbulus regularly covers the foe in sludge, but the bthrow sludge serves as protection for some reason. The uthrow slime wings enable characters, and, yes, even Grobbulus himself, to fly. While ignorance can be claimed to many of Kel’Thuzad’s faults, I don’t know what context ever made you think allowing Grobbulus to fly was a good idea.
The meat of the moveset is largely based off of manipulating the status effects, often the terrible wings mentioned earlier. Most commonly it amounts to simply comboing the foe with greater weight, or a move getting some magical buff based off the foe having a status effect that has nothing to do with animation. It shows that you’re used to working with magical characters, as while it is easier to excuse in Kel’Thuzad and Rivendare, there are only so many things a punch can do.
The moveset is at its best when interacting with minions, and there is more that I enjoyed here than in Kel’Thuzad. The manipulation of slime was actually fun, and the interactions with the status effects there work a bit better (Though are still terrible aesthetically). I could like this moveset a good deal sooner than Kel’Thuzad, mostly by just writing new status effects for bthrow and uthrow. If you really wanted to go the extra mile, I’d say the status effects are all rather simplistic and could maybe be combined, giving him access to a better grab-game.
Grobbulus probably should’ve been a super heavyweight alongside Thaddius. He’s a flesh giant, and if he and Thaddius were roughly the same size as they are I’d expect Grobbulus to be heavier.
Your writing style has been getting more and more heavy handed over time, previously seen with how much you could talk about the more simplistic moves in the RWBY movement. At this point, I think I’m more of an “average” level of detail, with people like you and Katapultar at the top. I have no idea why you need so much time to describe the status effects of Grobbulus and Rivendare in the throws. . .Or the majority of Kel’Thuzad’s moveset. Thaddius and Patchwerk, who also happen to be my favorites, are the ones that get off the best with this problem.[/collapse]
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[collapse="ForwardArrow"]Thaddius
We don't really get sets dealing with magnetism enough anymore, and Thaddius is the first real one in a while that has good fun with it. He can polarize the foe and/or himself, and then create electric charges along the stage that play off both aspects quite nicely. I particularly found the splitting Ball Lightning and the general use of electric sources throughout the set a fun subelement as well. It suffers a similar problem to Loatheb in that it sometimes gets too much into simplistic melee and not as much of the more interesting elements of the set, though I'd say its less prevelant here and that magnetism in general is a better concept and on a whole more versatile. As with all the others, I liked it, though I'm struggling to say as much about it as I want. Though boss Thaddius should weigh way more than 12 holy crap.[/collapse]
[collapse="MasterWarlord"]FEUGEN AND STALAGG
Thaddius is my favorite set of the movement. While he is quite good, I had high expectations and really wanted to like Grobbulus and Kel’Thuzad. The magnetism is used in a very obvious but interesting way, and I’m surprised it hasn’t been more explored before. This one is already the strongest conceptually to me, and he’s one of the better executed. . .In boss mode.
It really feels like you could and should have done more with the grab-game. This character is a giant that can magnetically attract characters to his hand – expectations are high. Dthrow and bthrow are just kept as placeholder generic moves that are made relevant in boss mode only. When you have this guy strangely and uselessly magnetize himself under the stage with uair, I’d think you could come up with more. The two minions would provide him targets to use magnetism on in 1v1 when he only has one foe to interact off of, and while it’s great that they’re added into the boss mode, the playstyle actually demands them more in 1v1 given there’s only one target there. They fight alongside him in the boss, so I really fail to see why you’re so adamant they can’t help him in a “normal” moveset. The minions also should interact with his moveset in some way beyond being just fodder for magnetism. The boss version of the moveset is still great, and I am largely considering it the canonical version. It also seems to be the best balanced amongst them, and I like the way you handled him getting grabbed in it.[/collapse]
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[collapse="ForwardArrow"]Kel'Thuzad
I feel like this was meant to be the real star of the movement and I was a little unsure of it back when I was previewing it, but on a full reread it comes together surprisingly well for a set that introduces so many things. You've got shield damage, chains, minions, ice that can be placed on the stage, and these elements feel at points disjointed, but the overall playstyle becomes clear by the end and its a fairly exciting playground, where Kel messes with the opponents shield, slows them to his level, and then introduces several exciting stage control elements that continue to grow in uses throughout the set. I particularly like all the fun you had with the dual grab games, every throw manages to be interesting and provide a lot of material to expand his gameplan with, and surprisingly even with all these extra inputs the set never really runs dry of inspiration. There are a few mediocre standards and aerials, but its not really enough to drag the set set down. And my god is it open ended, I'm fairly sure people would always be finding new exciting strategies with him. My main complaints are that at points interactions do start to get illogical(freezing minions to ice? Sensible. Freezing minions to ice causing healing the ice to heal the minion? Uh...) and that I do feel the minion game and the shield game, while the rest of the stuff ends up working together quite nicely, are a little bit too distanced from each other for a truly cohesive playstyle. Still, this is one of your best and the highlight of the movement.[/collapse]
[collapse="MasterWarlord"]CHAINS OF KEL’THUZAD
So starting with characterization immediately, I’m of course immediately very offended by the lack of Death and Decay even on Final Smash. The Frost Armor doesn’t do what it’s supposed to do by slowing people that are protected by it when there are all sorts of random effects thrown around the set. A move not being directly named Frost “Nova” is more acceptable when it really is just the name and it’s named Blast in WoW. Chain Frost really should’ve been in as well considering you have so many things to bounce it off of (And you have him regularly attack his own minions anyway. . .), at least in 3v1.
The chains of Kel’Thuzad seem to have largely devoured the set whole, in more ways than one. They weren’t in Warcraft 3, and in WoW they served as the name of a single mind control based attack. They are described to grapple people, but it seems to all be some obscure lore (After consulting with my friend who actually plays WoW). The Warcraft universe has extensive lore, and with a character as high potential and prolific as this you don’t need to resort to chains from it. The actual use of the chains in WoW, mind control, is instead represented through the abstract means of input banning/soul stealing, which. . .makes duplicates of the foe. I don’t really see how mind control translates to either of those. I’m not saying you need mind control in the set, but if you’re not using it the chains should probably just be ditched entirely.
Beyond this strange reinterpretation of mind control, Kel’Thuzad is seen beating people and grappling with these chains throughout almost the entirety of the moveset. You do have regular attacks on most of the chain inputs, yes, but the vast majority of the time the chain portion of the move is the point. The chains are also handled awkwardly from a gameplay perspective, as while the point of many moves is the chain half, you have to always use the regular move first before you are allowed to use the chain portion of the move. Using the chains like this also gets rid of your overpowered passive damage resistance, so for how difficult it is to use these moves I heavily question their merit. Said damage resistance also seems very out of character – Kel’Thuzad is made to be incredibly tanky in this moveset, with passive damage resistance of up to 7%, constant healing from tethering himself to foes, and a randomly high weight of 7. The Lich has always been an incredibly frail character (Even in WoW, he’s comparatively less durable than other bosses), and picturing him tethering himself to someone is just baffling. If you insist on him using them to grapple the foe, that’s one thing, tethering himself to them is another.
The moveset was generally at its best when playing with minions, but they were heavily downplayed in favor of chains and other things. The Crypt Lords introduced in the boss mode don’t really interact with the moveset in any meaningful way, and also have fairly terrible characterization. They don’t have any of their signature abilities (Which do seem to have carried over into WoW anyway), and most everything you’ve done is made up save for the their first move, involving them flying and creating gusts of wind with their useless wimpy wings. The rest of the boss mode is mostly generic buffs – not inherently bad, but this character didn’t come across as a natural transition to 3v1 anyway outside of the throws that duplicate the foe.
Your love of time bombs throughout the movement culminates here, with them being spammed on inputs regularly, going beyond just the throws this time. Oftentimes there’s no real point to the effect being delayed, it’s just something you feel needs to be regularly applied on moves. Just about any character can benefit from a delayed hitbox to pressure the foe, and after seeing it in your movesets so many times it’s not especially clever anymore, especially seeing it on multiple inputs in the same moveset. I’m not going to lambast you for a single time bomb in a set, but it has definitely grown into a pet peeve over time. This applies to other sets in the movement, most strongly Grobbulus and Rivendare.[/collapse]
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[collapse="Katapultar"]It's been too long since we had a set, and you just saved the thread from an ongoing drought by keeping your word about the Zant set you said you were going to post. It’s certainly not a bad start, but could use some tweaks, one being that it’s hard to read font that’s completely purple (just making the headers and attack names purple would be alright). And while not glaringly problematic, the numbers can be a bit too high on the Specials, namely spinning for 3 seconds on the Up Special and stunning the foe for one second with the Side Special. The latter isn’t so bad given the move needs to recharge over time however, especially if it has some end lag. I could see Zant getting a few frames advantage over his opponent at the very least, and maybe it would even be rewarding if you hit the opponent up-close.
I like how the moves are nice and easy to understand, not too bogged down in detail, and that you take advantage of the character’s magic potential even after the Specials. I especially like the F-Smash in that it can vary from being a comically bad attack or something devastating if you commit to the charge. I’m a bit mixed on the size-shifting gimmick being used on the other Smashes, though, in that I like the consistency they all have, but at the same time it takes away from the uniqueness initially presented in the F-Smash and makes Zant seem very tanky. I’m also iffy on Zant using his masks for most of his aerials as opposed to spicing things up a bit with his scimitars in a crazy way, which would feel better for the character. Aerials are typically more offensive than ground attacks given you can move around while using them.
There’s a pretty good sense of playstyle here that’s vaguely fitting for Zant, in that he can mix things up by fighting mid-range with his aerial masks or fight up-close with his standards attacks, even knocking enemies away hard by size-shifting. Zant did do just about everything in his boss fight, yes, so it makes sense that you’d want to fit it all into a set, though there might be a bit too much mask and hand reliance and not enough scimitar attacks. Still, I can imagine myself using the Neutral Special to pull enemies in and then charge up a F-Smash to crush enemies up-close, or wall them off via F-tilt and then go through it with the F-Smash and crush them, so it’s a good bit of fun. It is a neat start, for sure.[/collapse]
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[collapse="Katapultar"]Sonic Heroes is essentially a moveset for a game. It’s certainly not a bad idea if you actually want to play as Sonic, Tails and Knuckles at the same time, but having all 3 out at once means that you’re not giving them the same attention as a single character due to being treated as a group. All 3 characters are perfectly capable and known to function on their own, unlike the Ice Climbers who are always together, but it’s fine here if you want to represent a game rather than the characters themselves. And it’s certainly not as awkward as the harem sets from MYM14 that involved people making sets where you controlled 8 female characters all at once.
I have a few problems with this set. First, it is very cut-and-dry with its majority of Specials that make you go in x-direction and having to read through 3 similar standard attacks repetitively. Second, even though the set is for Sonic Heroes, the game doesn't feel fully represented with the absence potentially-interesting ideas like Knuckles throwing his allies as fireballs (could be an interesting positioning tactic for when you switch) and Sonic spinning around as a tornado - instead, you have just make them charge in the Specials and give Tails a random Mega Man-esque arm cannon that he never used in the game. For that, it's a bit hard to say that this set totally represents Sonic Heroes. Also, reading and commenting this set make the Sonic Heroes theme song play in my head while I do so, but that's what I get for listening to music.
One more thing about this set is that it lacks detail on stats and moves, which hurts it when it mentions interesting ideas like Tails stacking up and Knuckles' Triangle Glide but fails to follow up on them. At the same time however, the lack of detail does "help" the set by shortening its length given you're essentially reading 3 sets, but that doesn't do anything to help with the set's understanding. I feel this set would be improved substantially if you emphasized on the aforementioned mechanics, stats, moves and perhaps altered the Specials: maybe have Sonic do the tornado with his Side Special and Knuckles throw his teammates as fireballs through the Down Special. Mind you, the Specials as of now wouldn't be -completely- boring to use given Mii Brawler exists, just that they're not compelling and don't represent Sonic Heroes at its best. Add emphasis to the set and polish it up, and you'll have something fine on your hands.[/collapse]
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[collapse="Katapultar"]I like how each element is specialized (fire = damage, wind = knockback, earth = defense, water = range) in such a way that Aang has a hard time damage-racking but good aerial and KO prowess, fitting his air-bending specialty and mostly-pacifistic nature. I also like his Side Special in how it bounces Aang up into the air after he hits a foe, rather than just let him keep going like I expected when reading the attack.
I find it funny that Aang is aerial-proficient, and wants the foe up in the air with him, yet all but 4 of his aerials are air-bending moves that deal no damage. This essentially means that Aang will accomplish very little in the air outside of general positioning unless he’s bringing a foe up to KO them, and as such he must do his damage-racking on the ground before knocking enemies up. This is easily fixed, mind you, and I don’t even think it’s bad design – on the contrary, I think it’s really interesting, just that it probably wasn’t the way you intended for the set to play. Now, you could use the Side Special and F-air to damage-rack enemies in midair, but hitting with the former might be hard and the latter would be quite predictable especially given its lag. Another thing I noted about the Aerials is that none of them provide Aang with a lot of coverage (no multi-hitting or widespread hitboxes) and thus require a good deal of precision to pull off. The precision might be somewhat in-character from a disciplined point of view, but it does make Aang a bit underpowered in the air when his attacks are easy to get around and not to mention his Mega Man-esque U-air which is awkward enough to use with said character.
Nitpick-wise, I’m not really sure about the idea of earth walls being invulnerable when they’re generally destructible in other sets. Other than character, the Down Special doesn’t seem to serve any noticeable purpose in the set, and while it would probably be okay as a quick defensive move, 10 seconds is too long for a wall to stand up when you mention using it as coverage to charge your Smashes. This, and the U-tilt, are my biggest gripes with the set that don’t have anything to do with damage or knockback, especially the latter that essentially makes you invincible for 2 seconds (and then Aang breaks through the rock by jumping through it despite the foe not being able to damage it).
Aang is held back ever so slightly by a few questionable things, but even so I’d say he’s a respectable yet average set, mostly on the basis that his moves and the way he goes about his goal are a bit ordinary. If he had a tad more to his Specials and perhaps a more convincing air game, he could certainly rise up.[/collapse]
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[collapse="Katapultar"]Yes, great character choice! I remember you from MYM14 for your Spider even before you mentioned it, so it’s neat that you’ve come back even now. I apologize for not getting to your set earlier, but now I’m here to give you some critique.
Imakuni is a totally humorous set, which is a big plus for him. That being said, he’s a bit underpowered in terms of damage values, only doing an average of 4-6% on attacks when it would be perfectly okay for him to deal 8-10% on his tilts, along with a F-Smash that deals no knockback. More than that though, his deck mechanic is awkwardly implemented in the set; you take the deck out with the Jab input, which lets you get additional effects for your attacks so long as you don’t lose all your cards, but you lose cards for performing certain attacks and have no way to put the deck away except to wait for 5 seconds without using it. You can refill your deck with booster packs with moves like the N-air (which is kind of random) and D-throw, but you also mention that he can get booster packs at complete random and this holds him up for half a second, something that will likely screw you over in the wrong situation (your attack is interrupted or you’re trying to recover). The problem here is that you rely solely on the Jab as a way to handle the mechanic whereas the Neutral or Down Special inputs would make a lot more sense, but the Specials take a backseat in this set and don't do anything for the mechanic since it would be awkward if they suddenly did something for the mechanic given how late they're introduced (but even so, I actually thought they would do something for the mechanic). It is really a simple case of placing the Specials first on the set and using them as a foundation for the rest of the set, something that if done in your next set will give it a lot more to work with. As the set stands, the Specials are a bit on the bland side even if they are amusing to read - I specifically remember Imakuni having his own Pokemon and trainer cards themed around him, and wonder why you didn't incorporate stuff like his Exploud as a summon for a Special. That would have been hilarious. Speaking of hilarious, I found the D-throw's move name hilarious, probably one of the funniest moves this contest.[/collapse]
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[collapse="FrozenRoy"]Axton Body Spray
Axton is a set with a pretty neat central concept: He has the ability to set up a turret projectile platform pretty much anywhere, which can last for a certain time, shooting out bullets and giving Axton the ability to be protected against by projectiles. Enemies can take down the turret to force Axton to have it go into cooldown for a long period of time, but Axton can un-deploy it and then re-deploy it later for a reduced cooldown to save it, though this is risky. In addition, Axton has special moves that allow him to have the turret fire off special shots and the like. It is a cool set idea and reminds me of my own Alice Margatroid from MYM12, which I don't know if JOE! ever read.
Right off the bat, I like the Slag Shot ability with the turret, though the Scorched Earth ability is a bit more iffy, not bad but not as good so to speak, though I quite like the Bouncing Betty Grenade itself, and the turret itself is plenty good, though the shield is perhaps iffily strong, but the way it makes people approach and has counters makes it nice. I'd say the weak link here is the Up Special: The effect it has, despite being a rocket launcher, doesn't feel like it measures up as much to the other Specials in its effect and I was disappointed it did not round out the Specials in how it interacts with the turret (IE it doesn't), making it feel out of place: I've heard you're considering putting something that affects the turret there and I heartily approve.
The smashes are also quite nice: I enjoyed Forward Smash the most for its rather unique take on sweetspotting, the precision involved, and how it feeled like it worked well with the rest of the set and the way it controls space. The nuke's hitbox was rather fun and I enjoyed the various ways Axton has to set it off. Once again, the Up input felt the weakest here, as the Flakker Shot was good but not especially noteworthy, though I did enjoy some of the ways you could play off how the shots timed their ending.
I feel the set dropped off dramatically after the smashes and exposed a flaw in the set, which is that while the first seven moves are all good individually, they don't always work together the best: While they do generally play into the playstyle of controlling space, at times it feels a bit esoteric or removed, and things like the nuke's self-damage is a good idea but didn't seem to have much relevance in the set proper. While the standards on had some good moves, I was particularly fond of Down Tilt and Dash Attack, they overall did not feel like they adequately took advantage of the controlling setup provided in the specials and smashes. The grab game felt particularly disappointing and like the area things most could have been improved by: Up Throw also feels like perhaps it should not have been on a throw and while Back Throw has uses, it feels a lot like filler and is presented as such.
Overall, Axton feels like a set with some good ideas at the start, but it stumbles as it goes on and keeps it from being a great set: Regardless, I enjoyed it, and it was good to see another JOE! set. Perhaps you'll give us something else to sink our fangs into?[/collapse]
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[collapse="Katapultar"]It’s nice to see an old face return after so long. I’ve never played Cave Story, but I am somewhat familiar with the weapon-leveling mechanic because SirKibble made a Quote moveset back in MYM12. Your Quote feels very influenced from a player’s perspective, especially with stuff like the frustrating D-throw spike hazards (dunno whether I like casually using hazards against your enemy), and you even provide pictures at times. That being said, you tend to get very vague on the move descriptions, almost as though you’re assuming that the reader has played Cave Story and can imagine what the moves do in full detail without having to have them be described with more detail. The vagueness is such, though, that even if I knew all about Cave Story I would still find moves like the D-Smash hard to visualize due to lack of details like blast radius, duration, animation and so on. Also, mirrored inputs don’t make for a fun character from a set or gameplay perspective, just because Mega Man’s Jab, F-tilt and N-air are all the same (except for the latter having a keep-away hitbox on his body) which I don’t think was necessarily the best design choice.
There is one thing I really like about this set though, and that’s the fantastic Final Smash. I really love the idea of being able to summon the alternate character you didn’t pick, enough so that I actually wish it was in Smash! If anything, it is slightly overpowered due to how long it lasts for combined with infinite flight and a deadly projectile, but the whole idea behind the reunion has an emotional impact and is wholesomely in-character. It is one of the better Final Smashes I’ve seen in recent.
Quote could use some more detail and emphasis on playstyle, but I won’t ask too much of you since you tend to come in and out of the contest at your own pace.[/collapse]
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[collapse="n88_2004"]Mega Beedrill's got a decent foundation. You manage to come up with a lot of solid, visually interesting attack animations here. The standards (by which I mean everything but the Specials) all feel very unique to Beedrill. You've really got the character in mind, and that's good. So here are two pieces of advice, one specific to Pokemon movesets and one more general nugget of wisdom.
Think carefully about what to take from a Pokemon's learnset, and how to interpret it into Smash Bros. I think the Specials are kind of a let-down for Beedrill, particularly Poison Sting and Infestation. Take Poison Sting. That's a must-have for Beedrill, but would he really use it in the form of shooting pins at people? It seems fairly intuitive that, regardless of the in-game animation, the move is in Beedrill's learnset to represent a bee sting (or a wasp sting, I suppose, since Beedrill is pretty clearly a wasp and not a bee at all). Your Infestation implementation also feels a little off to me; in the arena of Smash Bros, does it really make sense for Beedrill to be shooting poisonous clouds at people? (This might sound like a harsh criticism, but don't take it that way. Almost everyone in MYM, myself included, has done the same thing at some point or other; back in the day, the phrase "Pokemon Syndrome" even became a shorthand for this kind of problem)
Write a playstyle section! A moveset is more than the sum of its parts, and a little write-up at the end of the moveset about your character's fighting style works wonders. If it helps, next time you write a set (and hopefully there is a next time; I'm interested in seeing where you go from here!) start by writing down a couple quick sentences about how John Doe should fight and keep that goal in mind as you write the set. Then, when you hit the end, just devote a paragraph or two to John Doe's strategy and tactics, or what kind of players might want to give him a shot.[/collapse]
So, how does this work? Real simply, actually: I take sets and comments, I link to the set, spoiler the commentso this is isn't ridiculous long, and now bam you can look at this to see all the comments on sets easy! Here's an example!
Set Name Here (w/ Link to Post Included)
by Username413
by Username413
[collapse="Commenter612"]COMMENT BLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEH[/collapse]
As a warning, XenForo is sorta messed, so sometimes you might see it duplicating spoilers at random. I think I may have found a way to avoid this, but if not, you'll just have to deal for now. Please also note that I will not be keeping images or text colors, for the most part: I make this by keeping a Notepad I copy it too and adding in images and text colors is a huge amount of time to invest when doing so. Let's get to it!
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El Jefe
by Bionichute
by Bionichute
[collapse="Katapultar"]I quite enjoyed the appeal behind a move that makes your Specials uber powerful for a price, giving El Tigre an interesting boss feel to his set. I’ve always had the feeling that you’re an adventurous MYM’er, willing to explore concepts that would be overly daring and ambitious even for veterans. What’s especially potent here is that the buff is gained through a Thunder-esque hitbox that could enable an interesting combo, just that there isn’t any real clarification on the knockback. That lack of clarification is something that bogs down the set, I believe, largely in how many of the simple moves’ are supposed to work in with the playstyle. Mainly bringing it up here because there’s no playstyle section at the end of the set.
I get that Tigre is supposed to be a fast combo character given his speed and some of what is written in the moves. I can appreciate the main Neutral Special for disrupting approaches and creating an opportunity for you to approach. I also think the Side Special is pretty cool, just that it only seems effective as a retreating move that temporarily controls the ground you moved along and doesn’t flow all that well. I’m alright with how the Thunder Mode works well from a distance and would cope well with the initial knockback from the lightning, just that it doesn’t have a lot of synergy with the initial rushdown combo game.[/collapse]
[collapse="BridgesWithTurtles"]El Jefe
I can see that what you're trying to make here is a rushdown character with a bit of a stance gimmick. El Jefe largely succeeds in being a basic rushdown set, but I'm not sure the thunder specials really have room here. Getting hit just once makes Jefe lose his buff, and I think it's just far too restrictive to be of any use because of that. This would encourage the player to simply restrict themselves to Jefe's more efficient default stance. Jefe's main playstyle focus seems to be an interesting "stay clean" approach to rushdown, in which his goal is to keep himself from being hit as much as possible. His standards and aerials largely accomplish this feat, and Electrical Traps would play well into this concept if the requirements for keeping your thunder sword weren't so demanding, but overall, it is a move balanced well enough to space reliably most of the time. Jefe's thunder mode really should play more into his keep-away game, I feel, so that it's actually worth making use of. Losing the ability to access standards and smashes, let alone so much as jump, gimps the tiger hard, which is sad because his standards and smashes are highly effective at playing keep-away and spacing effectively. El Jefe's a solid first entry for the contest, but I hope it's an indicator of better things to come, both from you and others. That being said, in my opinion, it's your strongest set of the three.[/collapse]
[collapse="crazyal02"]Most Definitely Not Tai Lung
And so we have the first set of the contest, El Jefe by Bionichute. First off, I like the idea of using Dspec to segue into a Thunder KO move (
[collapse="FrozenRoy"]El Jefe Gordon
El Jefe has some nice ideas mixed in here: The different modes of the fireballs are interesting and adds a bit to them and I actually like the Up Special as an idea, though I do not feel the moveset properly builds moves around it to take advantage of the shockwave or, say, the way it makes a hitbox above and below him in the air.
The Down Special is both where this set has a cool idea, I like the idea of a Thunder move that can change your moveset if you get hit by it and yet can dodge it, and the moves themselves are actually fairly interesting. However, it has two major problems with it: First off, standards and smashes are banned during it, which just reduces your options too much given the payoff of 3 alternate specials and it is downright bizarre he can still use aerials if you're banning, but they really should be kept anyway because part of what makes the move awesome would be using the new Specials and stuff with standards/smashes. Secondly, this move lasts for a single Special and then goes into a cooldown, which could work with another move similiar to this but the way it is presented in the set and the way it wants to be really would rather have a hard time limit or some other way to deal with it. Especially since it also goes away if El Jefe is hit.
Personally, I would give El Jefe new standards, smashes and aerials (El Jefe oddly keeps his dual sword aerials when he uses the Thunder Sword, despite the fact he can use his aerials) on the move, increase the time limit but make it so it can only be removed by the time limit going out or El Jefe taking out a fairly decently sized amount of damage, with a cooldown still.
Aside from that, El Jefe doesn't have much to him: The rest of the moveset generally consists of short moves that work only into quite a bare playstyle, though I did like the Down Tilt. In general, I feel El Jefe needed more thought put into him, but that he could be a good moveset if the Down Special was properly adjusted and then the rest of the moveset was given more thought into what kind of playstyle would flow from his Specials: My guess would be a quicker striking moveset that can transition into constricting traps and harder hitting moves with his Down Special.[/collapse]
[collapse="n88_2004"]El Jefe isn't all bad, but I was a little disappointed in how it kinda petered out. The Specials introduce some concepts that could certainly add up to something, but the set loses momentum afterward ("El Jefe slashes forward with his claws, in a semi-generic Jab attack animation"? You could at least commit to calling it generic!). I like the way the Down Special reduces him to a lumbering brute with only a handful of attacks, though unfortunately the moveset doesn't really capitalize on it. Admittedly, that is a difficult thing to capitalize on in a largely physical fighter like Mr. Jefe, since it cuts off access to most of his attacks.
Jefe's got a few balance hang-ups; why would this guy ever dash anywhere when he's got his Forward Special? And why does he have an attack that does 18% and combos into itself? In fact, those Aerials are dishing out crazy damage across the board. And there are a few weird in-game logic bits like Jefe's lightning going through platforms and Jefe having two "spin around with Thunder swords" moves with completely different effects. (Though that latter may be on the source material, not on you, for all I know) The biggest issue here, to me, is the lack of a larger vision for the character; the set gives Jefe a few fun things to do, but it doesn't really come together for me.
And am I the only one around here who's bothered by a South American tiger? Tigers aren't from South America! Maybe he's an immigrant and I'm animal-racist or whatever.[/collapse]
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Sheriff Toothpick
by Bionichute
by Bionichute
[collapse="Katapultar"]It's interesting to see characters from the same series use the same concept. Toothpick's normal moves feel a bit more interesting than El Tigre's, namely in concept as well as animation/character-wise (though I'm a little conflicted about the proppy throws, even if they do add character). His extra Specials, however, don't feel at that appealing in comparison, being more standardfare in execution. Of course there's the idea of size manipulation that affects the standard moves, though it's not addressed in any of the moves. I think I slightly prefer El Tigre to this set if because there isn't that much playstyle that surfaces through, though I could understand why others would prefer this set instead.[/collapse]
[collapse="BridgesWithTurtles"]Sheriff Toothpick
You have a solid spacing-focused projectile character here, with an overall statistical composure that works interestingly with this archetype. More character comes out in this set's writing than in the others, I feel. Adding disjoints to a great number of Toothpick's moves makes him somewhat unique and obviously leads well into the intended playstyle. The electrical field move is a unique and interesting one that adds a great deal of zoning prowess to the character, but its infinite range is troubling when one considers how difficult it is for opponents lacking projectiles to beat back this move without getting hit. Moves like Back Aerial are a nice sight to see, adding extra uses for some of Toothpick's attacks while also contributing to his "my range is better than yours" fighting style. The use of the props in the throws doesn't bug me much, but the grab game and aerials so seem to be where the set loses a lot of focus, and it feels like you practically gave up at that point.[/collapse]
[collapse="crazyal02"]Most Definitely Not Dillon
Next up is Sheriff Toothpick, also by Bionichute. Electric Traps are a neat idea (
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The Grizz
by Bionichute
by Bionichute
[collapse="Katapultar"]Hmmm... I see some comparisons to El Tigre within this set, namely the ice trail Side Special and Up Special elemental shield. I'm also starting to recognize character traits that contrast with the way the character fights, like El Tigre with his strategies, Toothpick with his gold and Grizz with his paintings. Of course it can't be helped if these traits never came to surface in battle in their original source material.
Grizz probably has the best set of Specials of all your 3 sets, but they prove to be a somewhat confusing read. From what I understand, the Neutral Special leaves Grizz in midair after using it due to creating the shockwaves by jumping off the ground. Also, ice blocks are created but will automatically go off the edge anyway, reason why they’re not elaborated upon to begin with. The ice blocks are then brought back up in the Down Special, however, but it almost sounds as though you were referring to the icicles in the same move rather than actual ice blocks… or the rocks themselves actually being ice blocks. I assume the rocks act as basic walls you can stand upon?
Grizz’s Standards are a lot more interesting than the other 2 sets, and the idea of having your moves change on ice is a cool one, even if a few of the interactions don’t seem like they’d even need ice. On that note, ice should probably last a bit longer, maybe 10 seconds at most, and really it’d be much more effective if Grizz simply created the ice ahead of him so he could actually exploit it for approaches, rather than creating it while moving along the ground. Maybe he should get to slide farther when he slides on ice through his Side Special? As a way of refreshing the ice and retreating from opponents, maybe?
The only real things I have to say against the set is that it gets quite weak after the Smashes and that it doesn’t seem too conscious about the walls it can create in the Down Special, these contradicting with Grizz being able to slide around and generally not being exploited as much as they could be. Seriously, it’d be fun if you could paint on the walls you create! Maybe even push them around along ice. Certainly a potential set with its toolset, just that it could do with some more self-awareness to become a great work of art.
Also, 16% average on your sets' Jabs seems a bit too high. I would say 10-12% at the very most, namely given Jabs are supposed to be quick and that they randomly deal nearly twice the damage of other tilts. The Smashes should also probably deal 5-7% less, maybe even 10%, as 42% for a fully charged Smash is completely insane when their kill percentages are much lower than even the strongest Brawl Smash Attacks.[/collapse]
[collapse="ForwardArrow"]The Grizz
Warlord's already talked about how hilarious this character is, and in some ways fitting to MYM(the post modern artwork bit is perfect). The actual set, while failing to really take advantage of the character's potential, at least does some interesting things. While its not immediately obvious until you watch the boss fight that there are ice blocks under the boulders, being able to knock them around is pretty fun, and while the stuff with him just getting better on ice isn't super inspired, it at least provides any flow/variety to his moves. Where the set really falters is the grabs and aerials. I know you have stated you like Up Aerial, but it really contributes nothing to his gameplan and comes across as very absurd. Might work if the paint lingered around and fell anyway, but floating in the air because of a switch on his brush that doesn't actually exist is stupid.
Aside from that, I feel you really should've gone out of your way to have more fun with this character. All you do is give him ways to extend his range on ice, when you set up the actually somewhat interesting boulder pits and icicles on Down Special, and I wish you did more than just DSmash's big ice wave for interactions that aren't just a random change to the move while on ice. I will say I probably prefer it to Sheep Mage and Pompy, largely on the basis that the set up itself is less boring than Pompy's batting around a projectile and it lacks the large amount of stun Sheep Mage had.[/collapse]
[collapse="BridgesWithTurtles"]The Grizz
This is probably an unpopular opinion, but is anyone really surprised when I say that anymore? I actually think that this may be your weakest of the three, though it does have its merits. While The Grizz is certainly the most ambitious of the trio, it toys with a concept or two, and mostly, the execution is hit-or-miss, depending on the move or scenario. As others have said, I have no idea what's going on with the rocky wall, but I'm not sure it really meshes well with the set anyway. The Grizz has some problems with numbers as well, with insanely off-the-chart damage percentages that just really go too far beyond what is necessary. Most of The Grizz's ice interactions are fairly questionable, and don't seem to make much sense. A few interactions, such as Dsmash and to an extent Fsmash, make sense, and these moves are among the better and more creative tools in The Grizz's arsenal. Most of the interactions, however, seem to make no sense, relegated to things such as generic buffs or completely changing the entire animation altogether. The Grizz has some great offensive tools at his disposal, but for the most part, plays like a defensive character who's more effective using his ice to move around quickly and throw up ice shards and icicles to defend himself with. While the two styles are not incongruous, I think they could stand to use a little more integration with one another to make The Grizz a little more cohesive as a whole.[/collapse]
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Chou Chou
by Katapultar
by Katapultar
[collapse="ForwardArrow"]Chou-Chou
I knew this set would be over the top as soon as I scrolled through it and I was not disappointed. The peon ball, the sheer variety of minion types, being able to stack them into a tower handled in a much more elaborate way than in Salvatore, being able to kill literally any construct(in a surprisingly balanced way at that), summoning tanks and the freakishly powerful variations of the Peon Ball, it sounds like completely insane stuff and frankly, it kind of is. This is the only set that can kill Strangelove within reason by exploiting a factor of the Neutrality Zones(nothing saying you can't attack the Zone itself), which while not truly all that relevant to the set's quality is hilarious.
Now on the subject of how the actual set works, its surprisingly well thought out despite all the insanity. Moe Kill actually doesn't break the game against MYM sets due to taking longer to use on more powerful constructs, while simultaneously creating minions that can create some insanely interesting set ups in and of themselves. The set does not hesitate to play off them too and is able to reasonably create most of them even if the foe doesn't provide the fodder, albeit I really do wish the Red Flame and Cannon variations were possible to create within the set itself and not relying on the foe to give them certain things to make, as those were two of my favorite types(hell the Cannon one was played off amazingly in the tower version of the DSmash). I'm also pleasantly surprised that the Peon Ball is handled in such a way that it feels fair despite being so powerful, while again contributing to the massively versatile set ups she has.
Obviously, the set isn't perfect, some of the inputs are handled in rather strange ways(the tower summon is an arbitrary command that is activated on a second tap of Up Tilt? Alright then), frankly a lot of the moves come down to spacing albeit in some fairly cool ways, the Up Smash coming to mind as one of the worst examples, and the grab game is disappointing in comparison to how well the rest of the set manages to flow, but even there the amount of true filler is nearly non-existant. It also comes across as tacky, but only really on the surface, given how much of the extremely bizarre stuff in the set seems to actually come from the game and honestly on this character the things that don't(usually involving the great minion towers) still feel like they make sense and they make the tower game insanely fun anyway. Probably the actual biggest complaint I have with the set, honestly, is that the melee game is very lacking compared to something like Funny Valentine, largely just following up into the minion creating special or just spacing people, which is again handled well in Nair but not really as good on the other inputs. Still, I didn't expect this set to be perfection or anything, and hell it came out a lot better than I expected given I thought there was no way you could reasonably balance some of the mechanics, which you ended up doing a fine job of. Great job on this one Kat.[/collapse]
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Shinobu
by Katapultar
by Katapultar
[collapse="ForwardArrow"]Shinobu
Is it becoming trendy nowadays to try to do duplicates without mindgames being heavily involved? If so its a trend I like because the mindgame duplicate sets of old are terrible now, though I'm not really sure they've done the best at playing off copies of themselves. At the very least, Shinobu does better than something like Blake with the moves being more heavily designed with duplicates in mind, using them in some potentially fairly intricate ways in moves like the Up Special and DThrow, and the other ways they're played off are still decent, if occasionally awkward in the case of something like Nair. Ultimately though I didn't see much overall flow, it seemed to really just amount to a slightly eccentric combo set, and I wish the moves felt more interconnected beyond just acknowledging the existance of a mechanic, its similar flow to the Grizz in a way but handled much better. Given I'm a horrible person who had the audacity to vote Blake I can't say I dislike this set, but I still wish there was more of an overall gameplan than there is here.
By the way the Forward Smash is horrible, I can understand wanting a way to unsummon the duplicates but it is very poorly handled. The trend of bad Forward Smashes is going to continue too...[/collapse]
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Astamon
by FrozenRoy
by FrozenRoy
[collapse="Katapultar"]What's this, a combination between your past and present self? It's like looking into a time capsule. I admire your courage for posting such and not being worried about it being bashed upon.
Tracking bullets that can harm you were and still would be interesting, just that being able to fire them nigh infinitely seems like it'd be too extreme and would provide you with no incentive to take the risk of pressuring opponents being pursued by them. Maybe you could still fire more bullets, just that they don't attempt to track unless the currents ones disappear. Based on the U-tilt, it seems as though Astamon has plenty of unique bullet potential and perhaps could have had a bit of variation in his projectile Specials, had you seriously attempted this set in the present day. Knife obviously feels very wonky, all the more so when it feels too central and opponents will be running around to avoid your bullets anyway. I'm sure you wouldn't have put the move in the set if it wasn't one of Astamon's main attacks, but even digging the knife deeper into opponents doesn't feel right for Digimon... not that I've kept track of the series since Season 4. Also, I'm guessing that the Final Smash is meant to be a joke and not actually something Astamon does in the series... because if it was, I'd love to see a picture of him doing that. Seriously.
Astamon could be good if edited seriously, but it's alright if you just wanna have a set there. Having more sets is never a bad thing.[/collapse]
[collapse="ForwardArrow"]Astamon
Every set in this block has a pink or purple color scheme, I'm starting to think MYM needs to tone down its flamboyance a little bit. With that being said, for a set made in MYM12 this honestly isn't that bad, the concept of the projectiles that endlessly chase the opponent to potentially set up some variety of interesting bullet hell, whilst still being capable of hurting Astamon if misued, is a good one, and the specials and standards play off it in a decently flowing fashion, if a bit boring. The later half of the set has less substance to it but it at least is still trying to flow, though its very easy to see how late at night it was written to be honest.
The real stand out bad move here is Forward Smash, and I've seen this kind of flow used and considered acceptable at the time but when you bother to think about it for a second hitting the Z-planes is a horrible concept that I'm glad is very dead now. So here we have a move that only hits the Z-planes attached to a smash, meaning a foe can dodge it simply by standing still. On a smash. That's pretty horrible and really sticks out in a set that, while sometimes dull or overpowering, never has any particularly terrible moves. If you bothered to take that out this is an actually decent bullet hell set, but that pretty much defeats the point of bullet hell to hit the background and makes it far far too easy.[/collapse]
[collapse="n88_2004"]Astamon's up first in the Froy series, and I'm not going to spend too long on this one. Partially because its age makes it hard to criticize, and partially because I've still got eight more Froy sets to read and comment. There are some good concepts in here, but it does feel a bit rough (and maybe a little over-powered at points). There are also some instances where the moveset seems to be trying a bit too hard; forced creativity is an easy enemy to fall prey to, and it rears its ugly head in a few moves (that Back Throw is the main guilty party here). The knife mechanics also feel a bit strange to me, though I suppose MYM12 gave us worse.
There are some things to like here, though, as I mentioned before. I like the way Astamon really puts the foe to running, and how a canny runner might turn that against him. The homing bullets are a pretty cool centerpiece, and that Final Smash is a super attack after my own heart.[/collapse]
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Rich Uncle Pennybags
by PixelPasta
by PixelPasta
[collapse="Katapultar"]Nice to see you back, PixelPasta! Bob Ross was a rather lovely entry for your first attempt, so Pennybags should be an interesting experience. I forgot how to play Monopoly or how you win, though I'm sure that won't have any bearing on the set, no?
First off, just a little nitpick: this guy's monstrously heavy! Like, seriously, having a weight of 94 would make you nigh-unkillable. Mostly pointing this out because Bob Ross actually had the same typo, but it's nothing that has any sort of impact on the set and I can understand you meant to say "4" and not "94".
Pennybags reminds of me Profiteur, a set posted last contest that also revolves around a stout, plump guy who loves the green stuff. Those 2 would probably get along great. Anyway, the mechanic is rather daring and I think the Down Special is a good way to emboss it, but there are numerous things that need to be addressed with the overall balance of the set. For example, $10 a second in a property seems too low of a profit, and would be much better if it were $50 at most. Also, it doesn’t appear as though you have to pay for any of these properties! Is he getting them for free? Maybe you should have to pay $100 to initially put down a property, but you can have as many of them out as you like, gradually building into a big set-up that exploits big crowds. That’d be like, 6 properties at most on a stage like Battlefield (3 for the main stage, 3 for each platform).
I don’t really like how the Neutral Special automatically takes all your money for the attack, but that’s something that could actually easily be alleviated simply by making it that you charge the attack and are able to do so for greater periods for the more money you have – in turn covering the lag that Pennybags suffers from greater loads of money. The attack could also do with its charge time massive cut down to like, a second, and for the attack to be twice as powerful, as it’s clear in later moves that you’re willing to throw down moves with mass power behind them… even stronger than the strongest attack from this move. Also, maybe a fully charged moneybag could be a OHKO. This is definitely a move I’d really want to see changed.
The standard moves have some good thought behind them as far as the playstyle goes, but their kill percentages are incredibly low, 200% sort of being the base “low” kill percentage in my opinion, whereas something like 120% would be strong, or at least as far as tilts go. Some of the moves that are meant to keep foes in the properties are a little too extreme, both the F-tilt and D-tilt for being able to keep opponents confined for seconds. D-tilt more so, which would be much better if it just knocked foes into prone with a 33% or so chance when pitfalling is generally frowned upon in the community due to being unfun, especially given it’s an old man doing it. This also applies to the rest of the moves that bury.
While we’re on the standard moves, the Smashes all look like fun moves. The F-Smash and U-Smash should probably be swapped, however, given the latter seems as though it would be much more effective against opponents next to you when taking your properties into account. The U-Smash would also be much more fun if you put in some crazy effects and removed all the stunning/burying, like forcing opponents to pay more tax when they’re in your properties.
Overall, I don’t think the money is exploited as much in the set as I’d like it to be, namely because it doesn’t really circulate and just stays in Pennybag’s pockets until he uses his Neutral Special, and Down Special is the only real way to get money. The $1000 bonus also doesn’t manifest all that much in a lot of the moves. Another thing I reckon would be cool to implement would be bonuses for certain attacks when you use them in your own properties, namely because opponents may try to destroy your properties by standing next to them so you don’t get the bonus.
This is a good effort which could be better with some polishing. If anything, I don’t think you went overboard, but rather you didn’t go far enough![/collapse]
[collapse="Junahu"]Rich Uncle Pennybags:
Hey there PixelPasta. I'm the MYMer who wrote Profiteur in the previous MYM. As Kat may have already mentioned, it's a moveset that operates around a similar concept, so it would be worth your time to go and read it. Not because I think Profiteur is any better or whatever (In fact, I believe that Pennybags has the far superior core mechanic), but simply to see how someone else approaches the same idea.
So, rich Uncle Pennybags has a very solid foundation for his moveset. You place houses in key areas, to penalise opponents who utilise those areas of the stage (by buffing your money reserves, rather than hurting them directly). It's a clever idea that gives the foe plenty of options for creative counterplay, and forces them to recognise the tangible value of the locations you choose to house. They can weigh their options, decide whether it is more economic in the long run to ignore the houses temporarily in order to get a better foothold on you. Or they can play around the locations that are 'locked off', or even play counter to Pennybags' strategem by destroying his property. It's really interesting stuff, even if the buffs you're working towards are largely damage/knockback increases that aren't entertaining to a casual reader.
For most of Pennybags' attacks, they only seem to benefit from his money, if he has the literal maximum he can carry. It does make the foe more wary of his golden-form, and that's good. It's a big attack buff that foes can shut down by being hyper aggressive in order to knock a few dollars out of Pennybags (and in return, Pennybags can just earn a couple extra dollars in order to reattain his golden status)
But there's no sense of a growing threat, because if you're even $1 short of the $1000 goal, most of his attacks behave the same as if Pennybags had $0. Not every player would appreciate this all-or-nothing approach, and they especially wouldn't relish the idea of grinding $1000 every single stock. I think Pennybags needs some kind of small buff for reaching $500, so that players are not forced to totally engage with the money mechanic in order to feel its benefits.
I also think that the houses you place should eventually disappear on their own (refunding their construction costs if they weren't destroyed by the opponent), in order to encourage the player to alter the layout of their properties over time.
The opponent also needs better incentive to destroy your houses, because currently they would have to use projectiles in order to do it without being taxed. If the foe can't destroy a house without giving you enough money to build more houses, then there's no reason for them to even try. Perhaps the houses could stop taking taxes for a second or two whenever they are attacked?[/collapse]
[collapse="ForwardArrow"]Uncle Pennybags
And I already know your ulterior motive for this, you think my ranking of Pennybags is going to drive the poor guy off, and frankly I do feel sorry for ranking it so low and I can respect that part of your worries. The fact is its the awkward second set for many newcomers that ends up much worse than their first, as they try to do more ambitious things but without a grasp of how to properly balance concepts like that. Such is the problem with Pennybags, because for all the effort you put in and it actually does show, it does some things that are ultimately kind of mistaken. While there are some iffy numbers on the Specials being either way too high or way too low(Neutral Special is nigh unusable with that much lag and having it increase with more money and expending all your money, the train is an insanely good projectile at max cash and really powerful compared to the other honestly rather lacking incentives).
Honestly the more important issue to me is the luck mechanics throughout the moveset. I can appreciate some of that as a tribute to Monopoly, but generally the less luck in somewhat competitive games like Smash Brothers, even if its frequently played as a party game. And aside from that, its used in a rather poorly handled way. Attaching a random chance of a long stun to any given move is very annoying, stun in general is usually something you want to avoid when thinking up creative effects for an attack, and having random multiple second pitfalls crop up from time to time lets Mr. Monopoly usually do some fairly insane stuff as he has any extra benefit to that time over most Brawl characters. The example that landed this set its place in 1 star is the Up Smash, which can pitfall people no matter where they are at any given time on a 10% chance, simply by holding a ticket up in the air. Its just very painful to play against when it actually works and comes across as a very bizarre form of camping when it doesn't.
Aside from that some of the monopoly mechanics are represented rather strangely. I don't really think game pieces belong in the set period as that's getting a bit meta for an actual fighting moveset for the character, though with how proppy some characters are in Brawl I can see the reasoning. However using them as soccer balls is rather bizarre, and they don't feel at all suited to a Down Smash when they lack a real hitbox.
I'm not against the development I see in the moveset, you have a core mechanic you interact off a lot and the main problem is just you didn't quite know how to work on it. With less luck mechanics and less stun I'm sure whatever set you make after this one will be a lot more likeable, we all run into a few pitfalls early in our career.
Edit: So apparently I missed that at the end of the move it doesn't actually cause those effects unless the card hits the opponent. The move is still bad, but it doesn't make as big of a mistake as I thought.[/collapse]
[collapse="JamieTheAuraUser"]@PixelPasta: I think one of the biggest problems with your set, aside from a random chance of stun or pitfall being rather dangerous and the neutral special being really wonky and just generally unusably slow, is that the money = power mechanic isn't fluid enough. While I do agree that having an additional boost for being at $1000 is great, I think otherwise it should work a little more like Lucario's aura mechanic, and be a gradual, consistent boost instead of having specific milestones. Also, I think it would be good to have the neutral special be chargeable instead of a guaranteed use of all your money with set startup, where charging costs money and you can't charge it more than you have money for. It might also be interesting to have other special attacks that cost money to use/charge, or maybe have his Smash Attacks drain his money reserve very slightly when charged. That way, there's more of a risk vs. reward thing going on, rather than just "amass money to win".[/collapse]
[collapse="Daviddreamcatcha"]RICH UNCLE PENNYBAGS
This is just personal opinion, but I really feel like you should've just called him "Mr. Monopoly". That's what his name has been retconned to nowadays, and honestly, it probably fits the set more with how you're intent on representing the entire game in his moveset.
And honestly? I wish you represented it more. Outside the specials and smashes, you choose to exclusively stick to 3 props. Mr. Monopoly strikes me as a very proppy character - almost like a cross between Game and Watch and Wario. You could've had him use the game pieces for individual moves instead of the get out of jail free card drawings (the jail could've been a grab where you lock them in a jail cell! and they have to attack it to break out! perfect for racking up property tax!), there's a lot to pull from here. It might not seem like this would contribute to a lot in terms of actual gameplay, but there are many times where the moveset falls into the trap of "this move will keep them here or this move will push them there", which honestly, would've likely been reduced with the addition of a more creative arsenal. There's plenty of potential that could've been exploited there, but it's a miss and we'll move on from that.
As many have mentioned, a gradual approach to the money mechanic would've greatly helped this moveset out a bit. More importantly, I feel like the money should've been a more contributing factor to his overall gameplan, allowing you to advance on from the generic physical buffs to a more creative approach to his buffs. Yes, it's useful for him to have more money because it'll increase his attack power. But there are so many more creative things you could've done here that would've captured the feeling of the game. Why not convert houses into hotels to have them take over more of the stage? Upgrade your tokens! Use your money to rig the chance cards and the dice!
It seems as though you were worried about containing yourself, mentioning the smashes might be too over-the-top. Going over-the-top, especially with a character like this, is what will get you big points in MYM. As it currently stands, Mr. Monopoly has a very good idea for a moveset - it's just that it's execution should've been done much better for it to be good, but hey, you still have a ways to go. I'd love to see you remix this moveset in the future when you have more ideas regarding playstyle and creativity, as the concept is excellent and both the concept and the iconic character could use a proper look from a cleaner lense.[/collapse]
[collapse="BridgesWithTurtles"]Rich Uncle Pennybags
I know that this set's been discussed to hell and back, but I wish to share my thoughts nonetheless. Pennybags, first of all, is a remarkable improvement over Bob Ross. He actually has a cohesive playstyle, and while the prop use is still rather heavy, it's handled mostly effectively, especially in consideration of the character. I can tell that you spent a great deal of thought devising the playstyle here, and your work indeed bears fruit. Pennybags has possibly the most efficient core formula for a monetary system that I've seen in MYM. The execution, however, is a bit sloppy. As has been said, money doesn't seem to circulate with this move. It's of little chance that you'll ever be knocked back down to Silver status once you've attained $1000, as the housing tax brings in more money more quickly than Pennybags ever has the threat of losing. There isn't a major sense of risk or reward here, so the playstyle ends up becoming a case of gradual buffs...and that's it. Pennybags goes bankrupt when killed, but a competent player will often find themselves working themselves back up to Gold in no time flat. I can see that you diligently took to heart what others have said before me, and I'm very glad to see you made well thought-out alterations to the set that fix many of Pennybags' issues. However, I think that more could be done to increase the cash flow, as it's still too easy for Pennybags to stockpile money.
Pennybags also substantially shows your improvement because it shows a much stronger grasp of gameplay, incorporating effects such as tripping to tie into how Pennybags' other moves work. So many of Pennybags' moves having a chance to trip is a solid way to work with his area of effect playstyle, and it's appropriately in-character as well, what with all of the chances and luck reliance. It's good that you toned down the random factor on his smashes, however, making the set mostly reliable to play with. I actually think the set could've used a bit more prop-usage, considering the source material, but it's perfectly fine in that department as is. As a bonus, the "Rising Profits" recovery move is hilarious and one of the most creative recoveries I've ever seen. It's also excellent for how it is tied into Pennybags' profits, rewarding him for playing well. However, I can't help but consider that this move may be one of the reasons why it's so easy for Pennybags to hold onto his money, as it only makes him harder to kill the more ahead he is, and thus keeping him and his money safe even longer.
In the end, I do find this to be an above average moveset, and with a few minor tweaks, it would certainly be worthy of anyone's vote. I'm glad that you came back to participate again, and I'm looking forward to seeing what else you may have up your sleeve for us in the future.[/collapse]
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Lore
by ChaosKiwi
by ChaosKiwi
[collapse="Katapultar"]Forgoing the usual casual writing style at the start, Lore is something different. The Specials may seem bare-bones and totally boring, maybe even all the individual moves themselves, but they're made worlds more interesting with the multi-arm mechanic that lets you use different attacks at the same time - a mechanic I believe few past sets have had the gall to use, save for Sazandora from MYM8 that comes to mind. Such mechanic would normally scream overpowered, but it feels surprisingly tame and well-handled here, the overly-simplistic and defensive nature of the Specials actually being advantageous here. I can't speak for whether the arm-count on each move and rune-count on the Specials might conflict on certain moves, but the way you've gone about it is praiseworthy nonetheless.
This is probably one of your most well-executed sets and maybe even one of your most ambitious, concept-wise. If anything, I think maybe there could have been a bit more substance to it, maybe a little something extra to the Specials, maybe some sort of defined gameplan. For example, the Side Special negates projectiles, but feels a bit empty, especially given the icy animation that comes with it which would have one expecting more. I know the aerials feel geared towards dragging opponents down to earth with the U-air and D-air that combos into it, just that I don't see why Lore specifically needs opponents there when he doesn't have any traps or an aerial game that stands out as far as wanting to spike opponents offstage. And while I might be wrong here, I think a greater purpose to the defensive Specials would make them much more convincing, like stalling to charge for something that gets more powerful over time or use as pseudo-counters for a laggy attack. The former might not be possible with this kind of character, but powerful yet very laggy Smashes would definitely feel practical when you have plenty of ways of defending yourself to land them. In fact, if the Smashes were like that, I think my opinion on this set would improve quite a bit... just I'm not sure whether it would be in-character for Lore. You'd think so given he's a mage, but maybe it would go against the way his deck build works.[/collapse]
[collapse="n88_2004"]You know, I think I actually already read Lore back when it was posted, and forgotten about it. He's not a bad re-read, though. The writing style here is light and entertaining, and the moveset is fairly simple with a strong central concept (yes, I've used similar things in the past and may as well be praising myself. Don't judge me). I don't think this is the set people will be talking about in years to come, but it's fun, it works, and it's a solid start to your MYM16.
I think my chief criticism of Lore's implementation is that he feels a bit too limited. His Specials feel particularly underpowered. The general utility of the hands mechanic will make up for it in some measure, but his options still feel a little too restricted to me. A playstyle section would have been nice here, but I suppose it isn't ultimately necessary; Lore is easy enough to envision in motion.[/collapse]
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Wang Chan
by MasterWarlord
by MasterWarlord
[collapse="Katapultar"]Yes, finally JoJo set not made by me! (or LoL) More of these sets are needed.
I strangely didn't find the set as humorous as others in the chat did (though I'd love to use the decapitation as material for a MYM16 SM...), but that's probably because it takes itself surprisingly seriously for a 1-day set and for whom the character is made for. Regardless, as mentioned by FA, characterization seeps through with the first 2 Specials: the Neutral Special that highlights Dio's head being the main threat of the 2, and the Up Special that highlights Wang Chan's undying loyalty. Crystal balls are utilized quite a bit more than I remember, but such can be taken as a joke of how little the character stood out. The set has good crafting behind it for the understandable lack of substance without doing anything too extreme (nothing offensive about decapitation when it kills the opponent and is pretty much impossible to pull off, which is good flavor for the character), its flow into combos that assist Lord Dio an interesting one. I initially thought Wang Chan was a bit too powerful in the tilt department and that it meant somewhat forsaking the need for Dio's beams, but upon looking back the percentages are actually perfect - a clean balance between incompetence yet still potentially being a threat with the vampire super strength if left unchecked.[/collapse]
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The Black Knight
by Bionichute
by Bionichute
[collapse="Katapultar"]Hehe, pink coloring foreshadowing the spoiler. Clever stuff. I mean it, really.
Sad to say, I don’t think BK has as much to him as your previous sets, feeling a bit… shallow in comparison. Mostly that the Specials don’t feel as clever despite not being offensive (if anything, missiles deal a heap of damage for how many you can fire out and how big they are, and the Side Special has very low range), and not really any sort of established playstyle or bouts of characterization. I’d suggest maybe you dedicate an extra little paragraph on some moves to give everyone an idea of a playstyle you want to establish in the set, or write a brief playstyle section at the end of the set. Right now it’s a bit hard to see what you were going for.
Sorry to break this out on you, just that I kind of had to.[/collapse]
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Victini
by JamieTheAuraUser
by JamieTheAuraUser
[collapse="Katapultar"]This is a surprisingly analytical and extremely in-depth moveset for what it shows, almost as though you were starting a thread for an existing Smash character. It's rather crazy that you've gone into this much thought about not only how your own set would play in different areas, but also the different situations in which the moves would apply, and as such is highly respectable. There are some MYM'ers such as myself whom would note a move's uses in the actual attack rather than list them all at the end of the set, but I can understand what you're doing to a degree since the reader will have already read all the moves, not to mention you want them to feel the same way about your set as you do. It's not really a good idea to reference moves before they're introduced though, given we don't know what they do yet.
Most of the moves are simple and easy to understand, and there's not as much "Pokemon Syndrome" as one would think, which is a term used in Make Your Move to describe pokemon sets which take moves from the Pokemon's TM list and translate their effects to a T in which sacrifices the feel of the Pokemon. I think if anything, Victini's playstyle feels especially bare, even for Smash Bros standards, his moveset almost being the epitome of basic without a lot to make him stand out or any move that feels especially interesting, no huge focus in the set - something the playstyle section seems to acknowledge. Even Sakurai prioritizes newcomers based on those who would offer something new to the series. You can go into much depth about how a character would work and have it sound interesting, but sometimes it really doesn't change what's on the surface, what's already there. I know I was that way with one of my sets once, a character for whom I wanted to envision in Smash.[/collapse]
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Ms. Decibel
by Bionichute
by Bionichute
[collapse="Katapultar"]I applaud you for going all the way with your Sly 4 boss movement, given some of those fights would be pretty awkward to translate or somewhat lack set potential. It's a bit hard to comment Decibel due being similar to BK and that I can sympathize with that character's supposedly terrible boss fight (I watched the 1st 3 boss fights) but this extra set has allowed me to see a few recurring quips maybe you could improve on. You don't always have to follow a boss's attack effects to a T if it would result in uncomfortable effects like stun, freezing or pitfall like on the Side Special, whereas making them deal knockback could be more interesting for the set. Also, I found that maybe 0.5 SBBs was too short a range for high-ranged melee attacks and that maybe you could compare them to existing smash attacks. It's mostly just nitpick however, and I do look forward to seeing take on something new after this.
Also, the Final Smash was a great way to end the "movement", tie in with the rest of the character's lack of Final Smashes and introduce an elusive character whose name popped up in all the intros to those unfamiliar with the game. Good job on that.[/collapse]
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Braixen
by BridgesWithTurtles
by BridgesWithTurtles
[collapse="Katapultar"]Your sets have lovely presentation and are rather well-written. Your dedication to Pokesets almost rivals Joe's, though it'd be interesting to see you adopt other projects that reflect your tastes.
The Pokemon being from 6th Gen, references to the upcoming SBB4 sets and fire-based attacks give this set an interesting "new-generation" flavor. I've never played a SSB4 demo unlike you lucky guys over in the U.S, but the references don't detract or feel obscure for me, which is good. In any case, Pyrokinesis does well in linking to existing smash attacks and is nice that it can be fueled by your own attacks, but it doesn’t seem to specifically say how long it would take to reach full power with some simpler attacks such as your own. Being able to absorb residues of your own attack to become stronger is a pretty interesting playstyle that could have a risk-reward factor in it, but that doesn’t seem to be the case here – in fact, pyrokinesis seems almost too effective. From what I get, you can just pull the fire back from some of your moves and have it stun opponents, making it a very strong defense and almost invalidating shielding against the sweetspot, though I could be wrong. Of course, you could easily make it so Pyrokinesis doesn’t inflict stun so there’s actually a risk factor to absorbing it if you don’t use it to send enemies flying, preventing you from spamming it for defense or something.
If the enemy doesn’t have fire attacks, you’ll be forced to awkwardly absorb your own fire from the Side Special, as while the Up Special and Dash Attack also let you do this, they’re even more awkward to pull off for the sake of doing such, and the Smashes require you to have fire in order to absorb any in the first place. The melee game, which don’t get me wrong is fairly decent and has a nice feel to it character-wise, and I can respect what you were trying to go for with their independent nature, is very weak without any fire-based attacks and thus you’ll need fire in the first place in order to properly get a kill outside of a few token moves like the B-throw. The pyrokinesis pummel pulling appeared interesting at first, but from what you say it seems that it’s just a chaingrab and not what could have been an interesting way of bringing enemies towards you, which wouldn’t have been -that- great in the first place given Pyrokinesis’ limited range and the fact that enemies will be stunned by the fire coming out of them as they’re pulled in… I think. I’m not all that sure here. There was certainly potential in the grab game.
Overall, I’d say Braxien is respectable, but I don’t think the set resonates with me all that greatly. I do believe that the base concept has iffy execution and is not taken as far as it could have been with the Standards that don’t do all that much for it. To be fair, you obviously weren’t expecting much what with the set’s intended target, but it’s still a nice piece of art and there’ll obviously be those out there that enjoy it.[/collapse]
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Duck Hunt Dog
by ChaosKiwi
by ChaosKiwi
[collapse="JamieTheAuraUser"]@ChaosKiwi: Four small stage builder blocks for a projectile that you can only have one of at a time? And that you're expected to hit another projectile with to make it do things? Yeah, that's way too short a range. Unless you're talking about large stage builder blocks, in which case that's 12 stage builder units. Stage builder units are, of course, the length of one small stage builder block. It's just one less word to say "stage builder units" than it is to say "small stage builder blocks".
For the record, four small stage builder blocks is less distance than a Fox Illusion covers.
Edit: On second thought, such a short range might make sense if he wants to avoid destroying his own Tall Grass, or if it's more meant to be a utility move to interact with other moves. But if he wants to not destroy his own grass, can't he just throw Clay Pigeons?
Also, his recovery is actually pretty bad, thanks to it automatically traveling forward. While this has its useful moments, more often than not this is going to result in him being Meteor Smashed offstage close to the ledge and quickly gimped as his Up Special puts him under the stage.
Double Edit: Don't mind my criticisms too much though. Aside from those issues and his throws looking like they deal a whackton of damage, it actually seems like a pretty cool set! As Katapultar noted, though, it's missing knockback...[/collapse]
[collapse="Katapultar"]It's interesting to see a one-day set from you. As weird logic it is for clay pigeons to explode for high damage upon being shot by a light gun, it's fun, but I reckon it'd be even more fun if you could specifically lock into your most recent pigeon by double-tapping B... but then that'd sort of ruin the shooter-nature of the set, I guess. The standards are... standard, namely because they're missing knockback, but the other moves are surprisingly good for a one-day set, the Smashes being hilarious and U-Smash/U-throw being genuinely interesting moves. Perhaps the grass Down Special doesn't do a lot for the set, despite being funny in hindsight, but it's acceptable for the flavor and timeframe the set was made in. Likewise, the D-throw is funny stuff, but I wouldn't normally accept forcing the foe to act against their will on a serious set. It feels funnier than usual simply because it's almost like a joke about how throws would be rushed near the end of a one-day set.
Overall, the set was actually much better than I expected for how quickly it was made and your level of skill, as the concepts and humor are fairly consistent and don't get overly stale unlike some past one-day set attempts. Good job![/collapse]
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Bellatrix Lestrange
by Getocoolaid
by Getocoolaid
[collapse="Katapultar"]Previewing this set gave some sense of attachment to it, so I was looking forward to seeing the final product. The greenness look pretty snazzy.
As I mentioned on the Whiteboard, the concept presented in the pummel is a sweet one; its execution isn't -brilliant- or totally convincing, but it's certainly fine for the characterization if you want to make the killing curse the final step in KOing an opponent. I also like the air game for what little reason Bellatrix has to place opponents there, and though your U-air was a little different than what I had in mind it has me sold nonetheless for its offstage gimping potential.
For nitpicks, D-throw could do with only dealing 25% at most, just simple number crunching. I also think there are times when a certain type of knockback can get a bit redundant: the F-throw also puts foes into prone like the D-throw, but I think it would benefit more from not doing such since it would allow Bellatrix the chance to follow-up immediately since you can't grab prone opponents. F-air should knock foes on a low angle instead of downwards like the D-air, as it feels a bit overpowering for offstage. Finally, I still think the Side Special is lacking in detail like the lag and how fast it travels. The hitbox manipulation seems like it would be difficult to pull off on most of your stuff (and somewhat impractical with the Down Special barrier), the counter effect not having a lot of flow in the set. I probably should have told you earlier, but it seemed like a good fit character-wise and it had the manipulation. It would be good if there was emphasis on dealing shield damage from afar with projectiles, though the current SSpec projectile seems a bit too weak for that (or is it? Wouldn't it make sense to expel a shield aka deal damage to it?). Really, I guess I just want a projectile that can pressure shields to capitalize on the pummel, and you could possibly have the counter serve as a mix-up for the killing curse.
Overall, I'd say this is a pretty nice set, and it's probably your best right now. Man, reminds me of Weird Rider, except it's early in the contest - if you can put this much dedication into the rest of your sets, I think you'll have a great showing![/collapse]
[collapse="FrozenRoy"]Bellatrix Rabbit
Hey, I should finally try and comment something! With 50+ stuff not commented, I probably won't get 'em all, and for now I'm just gonna do random sets to get into the flow again...
Bellatrix's base concepts are somewhat straightforward or basic, but they work well as a nice base for the set: Bellatrix and her signature Killing Curse ability can get kills early, but the Killing Curse is easily stopped by things such as shields, and ergo Bellatrix also has a focus on shield damage, including a pretty neat pummel. While not a concept that will carry an entire set, it is fairly sharp and good concept that can be played with. And the set does it...okay. The travelling counter idea I had in Weiss makes a return here and seems adequate and the wall Bellatrix can put up seems nice, though I do wish that Bellatrix could do a bit more with it, maybe making it stay out some...maybe a move that deals shield damage and can "shatter" Protego to create a ranged hitbox?
The biggest issue with Bellatrix feels like it is the depth of the set: It has some cool stuff with what it does, like how the pummel and Killing Curse work into each other or how the Down Smash encourages both shielding to eat at shields and fleeing for Bellatrix to snipe them with a Killing Curse or to follow with an Up Special, she feels like she doesn't have much going for her outside the Killin Curse/shield damage and that because of that the meat of the moveset, the various tilts and aerials and such, can feel a bit surface. I would have liked to see Bellatrix have a few other ways to take advantage of low shields, like maybe an attack that deals more the less shield they have or slightly more pressure options or in general a bit more focus aside from the Killin Curse + shield damage. It is a bit difficult to put into words, but it feels like the crux of the set is done well in about 8 moves, and then the rest just kind of exists to exist around it.
I would say the biggest areas that could be improved are the aerials, sans Back Aerial (Which serves an okay purpose to shield damaging) and Up Aerial (Which seems like a fine attack, though I question why Bellatrix wants the foe on the ground), and the Down Throw: The Up Throw also isn't great, but it does okay service of working into the aerials and setting things up, while the Down Throw is just a KO throw and on a set that perhaps does not want such a good KO throw, given her focus on hard to land/precise KO moves as part of her playstyle.
Overall, Bellatrix feels similiar to the Roman Centurion as a somewhat above average set that can get some votes, and is worth a read, especially as it is rather short. Certainly one of your better efforts in recent times, anyway.[/collapse]
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Altis
by Katapultar
by Katapultar
[collapse="FrozenRoy"]Flonne
Altis has a concept I can dig: Her Neutral Special allows her gun to push her back and combined with her tether gives her a huge amount of spacing options, melee options and a variety of ways to use her projectiles. This is combined with Altis' awesome Down Special bombs: I quite like the ability to shoot either the fuse or the bomb itself. At first I thought this wouldn't work well, but further thought makes me realize it'd be quite simple (The bomb has a hurtbox and then another hurtbox on top attached to the fuse) and would work well as long as the fuse's hurtbox was the right size. Moves like the Up Tilt and Forward Smash take strong advantage of what the Specials offer: I especially like the Forward Smash, which shows a good understanding of the tether and feels like it would create quite a fun gamestate, notably with its reset properties.
The Down Smash adds in more stuff with freezing your Down Tilt fire (which you can then melt with fire! That logic is so silly it blends it seamlessly with the series) and freezing your bombs to store them, which works well with your ability to tether them not to mention the different ways you can explode them. The choice it gives of all that combined with whether you want to slide around more or not and I like how it is a move with far reaching consequences. The Up Smash is also quite neat, it reminds me of the movabble counter on Bellatrix in a way or Don Thousand's gates, and it flows nicely into the game, so it is all around cool.
The aerials are probably the "worst" part of this moveset, though they're not really bad as much as not amazing, they're real workmanship kind of moves. The Down Aerial is a pretty neat way to work into everything, though, and the Neutral Aerial shortening is cool, overall though they're mostly notable for displaying good awareness of Altis' playstyle. The throws are overall pretty neat, Down Throw I thought was especially cool and it works kind of fun into her clouds and her fire traps, the back throw was nice too and I liked the setups offered by Up Throw, though stronger aerials would have helped that move.
This moveset did have some flaws, Up Tilt felt out of place some and I feel there could be a bit more depth outside the tether/NSpec, but overall the set is quite nice, it reminds me a fair deal of Salvatore in your catalogue of sets due to the many projectiles even though they play differently, though it also brings to mind Vector and even a bit of Remilia for me. I found I enjoyed it more than I expected reading it and felt it tied together into a nice package. A strong showing.[/collapse]
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Ryuto
by Katapultar
by Katapultar
[collapse="FrozenRoy"]Butt Monkey: The Set
You said in your article that Ryuto was designed to be bad to mediocre, which you'd also said way back when you posted him: I thought it was amusing, in a good way, that you would intentionally make a set to be like that. It feels like a very Kat thing to do.
Personally, though, I legitimately enjoy Ryuto as a set: I thought his Power Arms NSpec, for example, was a grear wat to mix in being a butt monkey with some functionality, like how Ryuto running away can be used to "lead" the shot to the foe as long as you do something like super armor tank the hit or shield it, and how there's an element of sacrificing yourself to have the Power Arm deal a bigger hit, with the option to stand in place to just retrieve the gloves normally. So do you use your mobility to pressure the foe and have to deal with the gloves or do you sit there and just use it as a shuttle loop projectile but be safe? I have no idea how much of this is really intentional, but it is interesting nonetheless.
I also really like how the Up Special interacts with the Neutral Special: Not only is the uppercut done in a nice way with the normal hitbox, but I like how it can "combo" with it and, since the glove pushes him forward and all, you can use an NSpec into Up Special into the glove hitting you to recover, which not only fits tonally with the set as his own attempt to recover ends up getting him clobbered (but helping him), but adds an additional interesting element to his recovery. The Down Special is also a fun take on Mr. Game & Watch's Bucket Cancel and, amusingly, is quite similiar to an idea I had for another series' Butt Monkey, Glass Joe. The SSpec isn't as great as the other specials, but I do like how it is risky/rewardy and possibly even that, if he blows himself up with it near a foe, he can catch them in it too, share the pain if you will, and if not the way that he can do stuff like run in front of it (Which protects it from projectiles!) or vary the speeds is nice. Maybe he could even Power Arm, fires one of these off, them send himself hurtling forward along with the SSpec?
The Standards continue with some nice stuff, like I enjoy how the Forward Tilt has a variety of hitboxes that you'd want to use at various times and how the move is safer near the edge, as the opponent will have less space to travel to be KO'd while you will have more, and in a pinch you can even sacrifice your life to get away from something like a shield by headspotting it. The way the Dash Attack's DACUS works is fun with the Forward Smash, which I find to be a refreshing move: Ryuto might be wasting that wall, but he's doing it in a way that services his game plan and has some cool interactions. I wonder, if Ryuto F-Smashes and times it right, can he stop the Power Arm with the wall for a moment?
The Down Smash is not only amusing, but the way that Ryuto can seemingly fire himself any which way via his Power Arm not only adds more versatility to that move, but even without the Power Arm this move helps ensure the other moves work well with non-Power Arm attacks thanks to the trajectory and has some nice little play with movement. The aerials aren't quite as good, but I thought the Down Aerial was a bit neat if somewhat silly and I liked the elements it added to his moveset, plus the difference between the Up Aerial hitboxes was an interesting mix between juggler and potential off-the-top finisher if he can get the foe high enough, especially since his self-damage might help him follow.
The grab game probably has the least interesting stuff here, but I am a big fan of the Forward Throw and Up Throw: The Forward Throw is a fun way to work into moves like NSpec and SSpec while retaining its own uses and it helps enhance the somewhat weak air game when you can go offstage with it: I like how it not only has the obvious flow of hitting the foe but also that Ryuto can desperately rocket forward in a panic as his gloves catch up to him, trying to find out what his best options are, very in character. Up Throw isn't as good of a throw, but I do like how it distills the self-damage into the sky bit and shows how stuff like Up Aerial work into this, as if the foe has more damage Ryuto can blow them both sky-high and then Up Aerial to follow up with a KO off the top. If he has more damage, he can blow them sky high and then try to go right into a Down Aerial, especially since it can pop up from the ground if they try to avoid it by grounding themselves.
I've been overwhelmingly positive here, but part of that is because the flaws in Ryuto are rather apparent and I am accentuating the positives here: The ideas behind the moveset means that there's a good deal of filler moves like Down Throw and Back Throw that serve minimal, though usually not NONE, purposes, and at times the moveset intentionally holds itself back to keep it from being "too good". Half the grab game is super weak and the aerials are not impressive as they do not do all that much in service of the set, outside the aforementioned Up Aerial and Down Aerial, though I do enjoy that Back Aerial has some uses and I would call it "good" myself but not noticably good if that makes sense.
Still, though, the self-damage, risk-reward factor with the Down Special for desperate survival is played well here with some really dynamic and active play on both sides, the visuals are overall good and I did enjoy the writing style, though it could at times be overbearing: I like how he's even a butt monkey due to reusing sound, though. Overall I enjoyed Ryuto more than I thought I would when I first read it, and while I expected a reread to not do well I was pleasantly surprised that rereading it for this comment did not wear at me as I expected. Is it a success or failure if you try to make a set bad/mediocre and someone likes it?
Don't be scared away by this set being "bad": It's worth a read even if it does turn out to be bad to you. Trust me.[/collapse]
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Howl
by PixelPasta
by PixelPasta
[collapse="Katapultar"]Now this looks nice! I'm a big fan of anime myself, perhaps not -so- much towards Studio Ghibli works, but this is an interesting tribute towards the retired Miyazaki. Glad to see you've put a lot of effort into this set.
Neutral Special is a very fun and interesting concept that just feels right for Howl's passive, somewhat playful nature. It does feel too spammable though since Howl can just throw it back up once the foe has finished KO'ing the clone, but that can be fixed by adding more lag onto the attack (maybe 0.6-1 second would be good) and a cooldown period where he can't use it when the clone is KO'ed. This would be very easy to fix, and would make a world of difference. Also, I assume that using the move again will dispel the clone so you can throw it back out again. The Side Special isn’t as bad as you’d expect since it’s just a grab, and the Down Special is definitely very cool.
Pacifist playstyles are very, very tricky to pull off in fighting games, as weak execution can make the sets very boring to play as if they don’t go about attacking enough, but the way you’ve done it isn’t too bad with the clone and traps. The Specials and Smashes are pretty good, but I don’t think most of the Standards and Aerials have the right feel: they’re all slaps or kicks that can be used competently, which doesn’t feel all that right on the pacifistic Howl, as you can just beat up the opponent without worry when you’re invincible and they have to deal with your clone first. I can understand that you wanted to incorporate some good knockback for spacing purposes, but I’d much rather if many of these standard attacks were more evasive moves that disrupt opponents weakly and maybe involved a bit of gimmicky magic. The Down Special also doesn’t have a lot of flow in the set due to foes mostly going after the clone and Howl being weak against projectiles, as cool a move it is. Howl actually has some frighteningly powerful standards, aerials and throws for how “pacifistic” he is, and these can be made even more powerful by his U-Smash!
Overall, I’d say that Howl falls short in execution, sadly, though to be fair the playstyle you were attempting is a very difficult one that even veterans would have a hard time with. The set is a good improvement over your other 2 sets however, having some very unique ideas and not as many pitfalls (pun intended) as the Monopoly Guy. If you maybe went for an easier playstyle and continued to throw out some of these interesting ideas, I could see you making a very good set in the future.
Also, I like how the Specials are written in this set – broken up into simple little line-by-line sentences. It’s almost like reading a poem, maybe.[/collapse]
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Banjo-Kazooie
by JOE!
by JOE!
[collapse="Katapultar"]I'm genuinely impressed at what you've done with the Specials, having played the games myself. It's basically the pioneer of incorporating Custom Specials into movesets, doubling as an especially clever way to show off the duos' armada of attacks, though Custom Specials are not something I'm interested in pursuing in my own movesetting. If anything it does sort of make the set a bit hard and awkward to judge when one needs to consider that for once the moves they're reading are not all incorporated into the moveset at the same time, making it partially feel like an unnecessary slog. Given you're throwing 12 Specials at us from the get-go, I can safely assume that BK is a unique experience where you want players to mix-and-match their preferences for the Specials like with Smash 4 characters. Hmmmmm.
When you get past the Specials, the Standards are shown to be quite refreshing, feeling distant from the Specials. You only have so much choice when most of these moves and their effects are based off attacks in the series, but they're perfectly translated to a T and their standalone feel works well with fact that you're doing full-blown Custom Specials. I think you reached your intended goal perfectly - a definite Banjo-Kazooie set geared towards SSB4 players. The set is very good in that regard.
It's kind of hard to find complaints considering what you set out to do in the set, but I do find the 3rd Down Special somewhat awkward on many levels. It's a bit hard to understand visually in that the explosion does not feel all that pronounced in the writing. That being said, it's the one move I don't really remember from the series, to be fair (did it even happen?). It also feels awkward game-play wise in that it's essentially a trap you can manually detonate, strange for Banjo and Kazooie despite their eggs, and it has an absolutely massive timer and doesn't seem to have a lot of flow in the set. It's sort of the bad egg among an otherwise well-crafted set of Custom Specials. My other, lesser nitpick is that radial knockback seems -slightly- abused in the Specials without that much reason to be to the point where it could lead into overpowered situations, mainly the Clockwork Egg that could spike recovering opponents without too much trouble. I'm sure there's a reason for the design, though.
This is definitely a good set that I could see having a lot of fans, but I can't really like it any more than that because of how it was handled; it's not especially focused and leaves a lot of how it works up to readers, or at least that's how it seemed to me through the playstyle section. That's what you were going for though, I can understand that, and it works for the characters.[/collapse]
[collapse="Junahu"]Banjo Kazooie:
Banjo Kazooie would have read so much better, had the reader known what the rest of the moveset was, before being pushed into the mini-gauntlet of 12 specials. As is, the moveset feels inside-out, and remarkably unfriendly for what it is. "Specials first" is not always the right template to use for a moveset, and it specifically feels like the wrong template to use here.
There's a pervasive failure to endear your idea to the reader. In any other moveset, you would be chomping at the bit to sell MYM on why this kind of customisation makes Banjo Kazooie a better moveset. But here, you just sort of fart out a standard playstyle blurb at the end and sort the 12 unique specials into broadly generic catagories.
Honestly, I really want the 12 specials thing to catch on. If not as an addendum for our future movesets, then at least as an alternate catagory of moveset (i.e. entries that are only specials, but have all 12 of them)
I don't believe for a second that Banjo Kazooie is a bad moveset. It's remarkably comprehensive in its references, the characterisation is inoffensive. And for all my moaning, you are diligent in giving each attack both a solid feel and a reason to exist.
It's just badly stitched together on the presentation side, which puts the moveset at something of a disadvantage.[/collapse]
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Scorpion
by ChaosKiwi
by ChaosKiwi
---
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Lom Lobon
by darth_meanie
by darth_meanie
[collapse="Katapultar"]I quite liked the tone you adopted for this movement - a minimalist approach that leaves details normally described in other movesets to the readers' imaginations. It actually feels very fitting with the nature of the characters, not just by their lack of background details but also the fact that they're just sprites. It also made reading through the movement far less of a slog than one would normally expect, but at the cost of certain important details. This wasn't too bad most of the time, but I felt it had a dramatic effect on this particular set's enjoyment, more than any of the other sets in the movement.
Put simply, Lom Lobon feels vague. For one, the Neutral Special felt lacking in detail for how much of an impact an ice block would have on a match. I assume the ice storm itself would never cause flinching (though I guess it’s a given since you mention dealing damage near Lom Lobon) and that ice blocks would function as barrels that can be broken in one hit, as both would feel balanced and I’d be very willing to accept that. There’s also a lack of detail on how much damage ice blocks would deal when thrown around in a tornado, but I assume it wouldn’t be much at all.
Even with that little nitpick out of the way, the concepts felt a little distant. They’re fairly cool, especially the tornado which lasts until you’re attacked, and most of them make it obvious that Lom Lobon wants to fight from a distance, but they don’t seem to come together all that well nor utilize their full potential. The projectiles somewhat conflict with the tornado in that they knock enemies away from it when it moves with Lom Lobon and is his main KO move, and I assume it conflicts with ice blocks as well if they can only be created on the ground (or fall if made in midair). The healing seems a bit strange, and the terraforming I inherently have no problem with just that I’d prefer if there was some kind of in-character (or gameplay) focus on it like with Sloth instead of being there for the sake of it.
Overall, Lom Lobon felt like a mish-mash of different ideas, just that they didn’t come together in a really convincing way, the vagueness sort of working against it. Certainly not a bad set though; the character and the potential is there, just that he needed more attention-to-detail and development in order to be truly good.[/collapse]
[collapse="ForwardArrow"]Lom Lobon
I will say I liked this set a fair deal more than Kat did, as I do feel the concepts here actually flow together pretty well. Build up some ice cubes, make a tornado and loop the opponent through it, bringing up the ice cubes along with them to assist your projectile game, which in turn makes the sweetspots on shatter and the rather unorthodox tornado KO easier to pull off. Its good stuff, if maybe a bit too redundant with using ice blocks as ways to transmit projectiles, but the FSmash and DSmash bring into account some new ways to utilize the ice blocks for Rock Smash effects as well. I find the set a bit easier to like than Sherry, as the design of the hitboxes on a lot of moves leads to some interesting depth and the flow that's here isn't very reliant on stun(there's a total of one pitfall and no other stun effects in the moveset, and the pitfall is really hard to land).
I do think the set's not perfect though, a few aspects sticking out as disconnected to the rest of the set. Major Healing is probably the biggest one, as I don't really see what this is supposed to provide him with aside from survivability. I guess camping gives you more time to charge it, but that doesn't exactly make it feel like it adds anything to the set. Aside from that, I really wonder what Shatter's terraforming effect was supposed to accomplish, as its fun to see you attempt to work with a little terraforming but not much mileage is gotten out of it, though square shaped pits are a lot more unpleasant to work with than slopes in a non-lockdowny way. Aside from that, there's some obvious filler here and there, though not so much that it turns the set into a dull read. Its a very solid effort from you DM.[/collapse]
[collapse="n88_2004"]Lom Lobon
Oy, commenting. Been a while. In fact, this is the first set I've even read in quite a while. That probably contributed to some of the difficulties I had reading this moveset; it's a bit vague in parts, and at times a bit too quick to jump from one mechanic to the next. There were a couple times I had to double back and re-read things to make sure I understood everything. I'll trust that this is more on me than you, though.
I really like the tornado centerpiece here; it adds up to something very fun, with Lobon and the opponent battling toward the top blast zone in the middle of a maelstrom. It's also much appreciated that the set's smartly designed enough not to bottleneck at the tornado, with other options abound.
I'm not sure I'm a fan of the float with aerial ground moves, though. I understand wanting to give him the option to use those moves in a tornado, but it seems like a strange addition. I'd almost rather you found a way to let him do that with the Down Special, since the current DSpec seems a bit disconnected from the rest of the set anyway. It gives him a motivator to stay away from the opponent (and as a corollary, the opponent a reason to not give him too much breathing room), but I'm not really convinced that he needed another one.
My problems with the set aren't exactly overwhelming, though. Heck, I'd say they're not even whelming. Solid work on this one. On to the next![/collapse]
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Gloorx Vloq
by darth_meanie
by darth_meanie
[collapse="Katapultar"]Drain seems overpowering at first glance, and I admit it took me a moment to wrap my head around the percentages presented given what they’re usually associated with in Smash, but it actually presents for a very interesting playstyle – rather than just be a straight-up status effect, it starts off weak and grows as you feed it more, and if opponents ignore it for too long they’ll really start to suffer and it’ll only get harder to remove. Also, I assume a 100% drain is equal to a Pummel KO (if so, a very coolly-described one), because it’d be pretty annoying to have to run off the ledge and kill yourself if you can no longer deal damage – especially given how slow you are, if you can even move at all.
I have a few nitpicks on the Specials in that 2 seconds feels way too short a time for a fully-charged Up Special given how ridiculously good it is at higher percentages/drain, and the “magical contamination” of the Down Special feels hard to understand, I assume that simply being you can’t use it invisibility properly until 15 seconds once initiated. U-tilt looks like an attack of extremes, overpowering even if you hit the opponent with a few drains and don’t get hit.
In a strange case for a DM set, I actually thought Gloorx Volq -lacked- reliable melee attacks. His Jab is a bit slow, his F-tilt hits from afar, D-tilt must be laggy given its ludicrous range and U-tilt obviously can’t hit from the sides, F-Smash, N-air and D-Smash all being unorthodox moves (the latter doesn’t even have a proper hitbox and does not seem to benefit from being charged, similar to Smashes from old Rool sets). It sort of makes Gloorx Volq very predictable in melee combat to the point where you -have- to use his ridiculous speed to run from opponents, being a weird way of zoning, though it was probably your intention when designing the set. F-Smash doesn’t seem to offer much given it’s compared to the Neutral Special, and would probably benefit from being changed to a more defensive-orientated scythe slash to intercept nearby opponents and knock them away from you reliably. The invisibility is used well for this cause, though it seems like it’d be a bit hard to control given how fast the character moves.
Gloorx Volq feels stronger than his blue brother with his interesting mechanic, good use of zoning and flow in the Specials, but he’s not entirely flawless: handling him would feel awkward, some of the unorthodox inputs leave less room for practical stuff that could give him more choice in battle and the Up Special, U-tilt, U-air and healing throw almost feel overpowering. An extreme feel is a good feel for this kind of moveset, just that with the former 3 moves there’s nothing stopping you from spamming the hell out of them once you can get away with it. But I do like this set, I’ll give you that.[/collapse]
[collapse="ForwardArrow"]Gloorx Vloq
Drain damage is a cool concept, but a small portion of me is thinking of playing against Viper in DoTA2 when I read it due to how it slows down the opponent's everything. And my god do I hate playing against Viper, probably because I have all the skill of a dead walrus. Tangents aside, I think after a certain amount of drain damage, like 45% or so, it'd just snowball so hard the opponent could never feasibly fight back, though at the very least its not that hard to get rid of drain damage especially if Gloorx wants to go and use the fairly powerful minions. Its sort of fun to work with the drain damage as a minor slow to allow your somewhat awkward hitboxes to work better too, though that may just be me who likes strangely shaped/sweetspotted hitboxes a lot more than he should.
I do have to wonder how connected all the concepts you introduce are, as while the way the invisibility plays is interesting I'm not as convinced it flows into the drain as it should, though at the same time you do introduce ones that do flow into it quite well like the rather awesome Symbol of Torment. I think my main complaint with the set is the Smashes, which barring Lethal Infusion have basically nothing to do with the rest of the set and come across as wastes of potential, I'd figure you could work the Miasma and poison damage into the drain damage/minions somehow and you really don't. I get wanting to use them in the set as they sound like fairly important spells of his from our conversations about this set, but their relevance amounts to fairly little for how awkward they are as Smashes(especially Miasma). I've probably nitpicked this set too much though, it feels very interesting to play and on a whole I like the concepts introduced and the slightly loose but still connected nature of them. Its just a good bit worse than Lom Lobon for me.[/collapse]
[collapse="n88_2004"]Gloorx Vloq
Starting off with a nitpick is a breach of etiquette, I know, but at the beginning of the set you say that 8% drain damage makes the opponent "108% slower". I suspect you mean 8% slower, or that Neutral Special is terrifying indeed.
I'm afraid that Gloorx skews a bit too restrictive in terms of the status effects he inflicts on the foe. He's not quite a lockdown character, but once he gets rolling, retaking the momentum will be no small feat. Still, the drain damage is a novel effect, and the way it's handled here is interesting. My first impression was that Gloorx was way over-powered, but after dwelling on it, I'm less convinced. You might need to make a couple tweaks (some number-crunching on Symbol of Torment might be in order), but he's far from unfixable. That Forward Throw seems like it makes drain damage a bit too easy, though.
Some of the effects on the Standard seem odd. The Up Tilt/Aerial dealing damage based on drain level feels most out of place, but the Up Smash affecting his scythe attacks also doesn't quite sit right with me either. I'm just not getting what they have to do with the inputs.
I do wonder at how Gloorx would function in a FFA match. A lot of his tricks that require more set-up would be out, but he could probably have a fun keep-away game, using drain damage to play foes against each other.
This one feels a bit more solidly written than Lobon, and more fun to think about, but I'm not sure Gloorx would be quite as much fun when translated into the actual game.[/collapse]
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Cerebov
by darth_meanie
by darth_meanie
[collapse="Katapultar"]Cerebov certainly has the power going for him and a clear extreme in his fire resistance-removing sword. Unlike Gloorx Volq though, that power feels incredibly blatant to the point of being completely overpowered. And that Side Special feels incredibly cruel: Cerebov can easily knock foes away to get into the attack’s range, which is absolutely massive, and combined with the duration prevents any foe from being able to dodge their way through. It’s essentially an invincible move against edgeguarders, and that’s not even taking the fire traps it leaves behind or the fact that it deals more damage when you hit with your sword attacks! It would be significantly more balanced if the fire had a very short duration that let enemies dodge it without a problem, and if there was actual lag mentioned since it would feel especially important to know whether it’s telegraphed or leaves Cerebov open to punishment afterwards (though apparently he can actually capitalize on the second it lingers, according to the playstyle section). The demon minions both feel quite overpowering as well, one having a completely unavoidable attack while the other can potentially deal 50% to you in one go, and possibly the U-Smash. It’s a bit strange to be met with a set from you that’s just so crazy powerful.
It’s interesting to have a character who blows enemies away with such force on each hit, but Cerebov does not feel as especially interesting or even as focused as the other sets, being the weakest of the bunch in my opinion – even if he wasn’t completely overpowered.[/collapse]
[collapse="ForwardArrow"]Cerebov
This has probably the least compelling bunch of ideas and worst execution of the bunch, reminding me a bit of Argent Commander with the overpowering stacking damage and lack of recovery. That said its not really all that bad, I think Haste at the very least makes the set have very real depth what with cutting your lag by absorbing fire traps, while being somewhat limited by the fact that you can't store them so you better make efficient use of them or its a waste of your time and fire traps. The sword increasing the opponents damage/knockback from fire traps so massively makes him rather terrifying to play against, kind of reminding me of Ganondorf in terms of abilities but becoming a lot more satisfying and dangerous when you see all the lingering hitboxes and stacking damage he can pull off, as well as the small but relevant chances he has to actually use fast attacks for once.
Of course, I do say its the worst of the group for a reason, as past the specials you don't really find much to do with the concepts introduced, either working with irrelevant but admittedly cool material in the iron ball or just throwing out fairly generic attacks with the effects shown in specials. There are a few good ones in there in how they use the attacks, but stuff that was interesting the first time like Sticky Flame is not so interesting when it shows up for the third time. Unlike Gloorx and much moreso Mnoleg, the minions come across as very ignored, they just kind of are introduced in a special and then never mentioned again, which is fairly bad when they feel as powerful/interesting as they do, but I can't really count them as much as a good point for the set when they basically are never acknowledged and one of their most interesting moves(Sticky Flame) is just casually reused twice in Cerebov's actual set. That said, for all my complaints the set still has very real depth from the specials alone and honestly, I would probably main it for how satisfying a lot of the attacks feel even if there isn't much too the later parts of the set.[/collapse]
[collapse="n88_2004"]Cerebov
All of these sets (so far; I haven't read Mnoleg yet, as I type this) have had a very solid sense of atmosphere and character, but I think Cerebov does that best of all them. Though I might just be biased because Morgoth Cerebov fits neatly into an archetype I like, both in terms of character and moveset. He's handily the Pandemonium Lord I'd most like to actually play as or against.
I like him, but I probably have the least to say about Cerebov. I enjoyed reading the set, and I really like the sense of power here. He's definitely more loosely constructed than Lobon or Vloq; it might have been nice to see the minions and fire vortexes woven into the playstyle a bit more smoothly. It feels odd to me that he can reabsorb a fire vortex to charge Haste, but not for any other purpose; with the random movement of the vortex thrown in, it seems rare that he'll ever get a chance to do that. Still, that's a nitpick and, though I suspect he won't set the rankings charts on fire (*rimshot*), I count Cerebov as a good read.[/collapse]
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Mnoleg
by darth_meanie
by darth_meanie
[collapse="Katapultar"]The title for this comment should speak for this set’s quality… by far the best of the movement, and maybe even one of your best. It does not suffer from any striking balance problems unlike the previous 2 sets, nor does the tone bring it down massively. If anything, it actually benefits from the writing style, which is a good balance to the amount of detail usually involved in the minion genre. I thought the attack name “Summon Horrible Things” and the mutation descriptions were especially humorous, along with the recurring mention of “silly little booties”.
Experimental minion set is definitely something FA would do, hence the comment title, so it’s surprising to see you handle it. Yours is a far more simple read with no less content, the eye minions all being unique and balanced and the abominations being refreshingly simple, their combinations only taking 2 mere paragraphs to describe. If anything, the glow is brought up at a strange time and is the one thing that could do with a bit more detail, but it can’t be helped if you introduced it on a minion.
I like the way Mnoleg was handled, having a few tricky moves but never feeling overpowering in his attacks, helped by his lack of projectiles outside of the laggy U-Smash. He only has one truly reliable KO move, but it’s a recurring one with a good deal of presence. He has a few wacky, unorthodox attacks like Gloorx Volq, but these work well with the fact that can summon minions and balances out their existences, along with some of the crazy stuff you can do with them via combinations and effects from the throws. Heck, even the glow KO mechanic feels extremely well-executed and works marvelously with the minions: actually pressuring the opponent yourself is high-risk due to the fact that the blast can hurt you, yet they can’t easily shield it due to your means of hurting shields nor can they dodge it easily because of your minions. One of the best things about this set is just how scarily well all the fun ideas flow with each other.
For all I’ve said, there is one thing bogging the set down for me, and only one thing: the Malign Gateway Up Special. Specifically, the eldritch tentacle with the ridiculous reach that effectively keeps opponents in place if grabbed. It doesn’t seem to have a place in Mnoleg’s grand scheme, and feels blatantly overpowered even if the tentacle just disappeared if it were dodged. The set would actually be better if it were removed and it were just a simple portal recovery, or if you incorporated the tentacle into the playstyle in a unique and balanced way.
Overall, and regardless of the Up Special, Mnoleg is a great, well thought-out set and the shining jewel of the Pandemonium movement. I really like the set as is, but if the Up Special was removed or changed for the better it would have a very good chance of getting a Super Vote from me at the end of the contest. Splendid work, DM; if you keep this up you could return to being the powerhouse that you were in the old days.[/collapse]
[collapse="ForwardArrow"]Mnoleg
Oh is it really a surprise this one is my favorite. I love build-a-minion stuff, and you give some very interesting components with the eyes, which have very unique effects to make their rather generic body template into something that is actually extremely interesting to play with. That alone is good, and you actually play off it in some fairly exciting ways with the glow, ability to evolve the minions, and the awesome grab game. Glow stands out to me as a particularly great idea on your part, its a time bomb effect that is potentially extremely rewarding and works well into the minions and doesn't feel unfun in the slightest, hell it actually is kind of enjoyable to play against if anything because using it against Mnoleg to bring him down with you sounds hilarious. The minion commands, camping, and shield poking stuff aren't nearly as exciting, but honestly it does all at least flow off the minions(largely on account of the one that drains shields in the case of the last one).
I actually don't have that terribly much to complain about, even if the standards/smashes/aerials are less compelling than the Specials and Grab Game they still have plenty of relevance and can still do interesting things(I quite like the Nair/Uair). Two things that bug me are that, animation wise, the minion commands are a bit awkward because I don't fully understand why these moves make the minions respond, especially in the way they do, though that's a complaint that can be leveled against a good number of MYM sets. Aside from that, the mutations on the opponent, while interesting in their own strange way, maybe should've been handled a little differently than pure randomness, I proposed a ROB laser charge to determine how harmful the selection of effects would be, though honestly the mutations feel subdued enough that they don't detract from the moveset regardless, its more just a matter of wishing they were capitalized on a little more and giving the player a bit more control over them, even if there was still a random element involved. On a whole though, this is a pretty great set and a lot of people are calling it an early frontrunner for a good reason.[/collapse]
[collapse="n88_2004"]Mnoleg
This one seems to be the DM set (or any set) with the most buzz. So naturally, I went into this one trying to find problems. I have to say that it handles some really off-the-wall concepts in a reserved, logical way. The various mutations, minions and freakish glow-induced explosions are all implemented incredibly smoothly here.
I think the set loses some of that sheen when it gets into the standards, though; some of the attacks here feel like they're trying a little too hard to get creative, with effects that left me a little confused. Why do Down Tilt and Up Tilt adjust his minions' AI? I guess there's an implied Mutation effect on Down Tilt, but it still feels like a very strange mechanism for manipulating the abominations. Another oddball is the Forward Aerial with the customizable knockback direction.
All the main parts of the set are beautifully handled here, but some of the mechanics in Mnoleg's basic inputs strike me as a little forced. It's still a very fun set, of course, but I wasn't as impressed by it as I thought I was going to be after finishing the Smashes. [/collapse]
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Bahamut
by Katapultar
by Katapultar
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Neku Sakuraba
by darth_meanie
by darth_meanie
[collapse="Katapultar"]As the (extremely fitting) title of this comment implies, I hold this set in similar regard to to Banjo-Kazooie, as both sets have a lot in common with each other. Both are incredibly stylish. Both revolve around custom. Both are for main characters. Both stay true to their respective series to an commendable degree while still working in smash. But most of all, both make good use of a feature in the upcoming Smash game. BK used Custom Specials, but this set uses the fact that Smash is playable on a 3DS now. That is great.
Oh, and both sets use partners. Just in... different ways.
The difference between the 2 sets is that Neku is not your typical Smash set, and that he has a lot more custom options going for him. The invincible dash and tech are slightly questionable, though the latter is not totally overpowered since it's not like a player would have time to mash the touch pen in one place upon being hit and furthermore would have to predict the knockback trajectory of the attack they were hit by. Neku also appreciates spacing given his vast repertoire ranged-attacks, so just teching all the time is like asking to be comboed. Now, I'll assume that the screens' roles are reverse to the 3DS version (percentages at top, main screen at bottom) and that opponents have some way of knowing where their Neku opponent is aiming the effects of a given pin move, especially in the case of attacks that can be aimed anywhere like pyrokinesis and the freezing effect.
I've never played TWEWY myself despite MYM being veeery familiar with it, but Neku seems like he'd be pretty fun to play as, especially given some of the unique touch-screen options that let you position your attacks in ways no other character can. His set essentially boils down to a weak Jab, Grab, 4 assist-based Specials at a time that cycle with each successful hit and 6 custom attacks with varying cooldown. That's a little less than the average character, though Neku is indifferent to being grounded or in midair so one could almost argue that he has more options. Like Banjo and Kazooie, it's a little difficult to judge. Neku seems like he'd be predictable, but that doesn't seem to be the case. On the other hand, he feels a bit starved for melee options compared to other characters when he's trying to raise a meter, even with partners given they alternate automatically, making him feel very campish when he has tons of pin projectiles given he's encouraged to use traps and what not to raise that meter.
Like Banjo-Kazooie, the set is great in being serviceable to its series in the best way possible, but I have a hard time really, REALLY liking the set anymore than I do because it doesn't have one set playstyle or goal unlike most sets, much like the aforementioned set. It's potentially more fun, yet a bit more difficult to truly judge and grasp due to relying on custom far more. A Neku set for Smash could work just as well, but this was certainly an interesting set.[/collapse]
[collapse="n88_2004"]I've already hit the Pandemonium Lords, so on the DM front, I'm all caught up with Neku Sakuraba. I usually like your work, but this isn't quite your typical bundle of tricks. The partners and the light puck made for an interesting set-up, though some of the partners' attacks felt a little underdeveloped at points. (How big is an obstacle? How much bigger is a larger obstacle?) But that list of pins... man that was a slog. I didn't have the heart to do much more than skim through the main playstyle section after making it through all that, and I sure as heck didn't go through all the individual pin-outs and match-ups.
This has the feelings of a really carefully done tribute to the source material, but I'm not familiar with said source material, and it's all a bit lost on me. You get an A for effort, but Neku is so far removed from what a moveset normally is that I can't entirely wrap my head around him, and I'm more inclined to think of him more as some crazy (probably way over-powered?) game mode than an actual fighter. (By the by, can you take two pins that have the same input mechanism? Do both go off simultaneously, if possible? If there was an explanation for that, I missed it)[/collapse]
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Kunkka, the Admiral
by FrozenRoy
by FrozenRoy
[collapse="Katapultar"]I had a hard time thinking of what to say about this set for some strange reason, hence why it didn't get a comment at my usual super speeds. But I can say this for certain: I absolutely love the Neutral Special and everything it encompasses. It's sort of like how I really loved G-Man's intangibility mechanic back in MYM12 (and still do), and something about tying the opponent in place feels right for the character despite the fact that he doesn't seem to have any character. The playstyle and what the character is trying to do are respectable to some degree, even if he's basically just a pirate version of Marth (but the watery hitbox is pretty cool), and it's nice that he has at some traps he can use to take advantage of his X-trap. If anything, some of the stuff in the set feels a bit forced and awkward because of the way the mechanic works. You're forced to use certain attacks that don't use the mechanic if you want to save it, and there are a few attacks that let you not use the mechanic but feel really forced and disjointed from the fact that you have to use it on some of your standard attacks. The Smashes are also strange in that they require you to have water if you want a trap but don't use it up, so if you do use up water for a strong attack you can't just set-up afterwards. There are some cool thing you can do with the water like with the F-air and a few of the standard attacks, but it's a one-time and you have to wait 5 seconds to do it later, leaving you a bit vanilla. I think the set is really restrained by the mechanic being passive: it forces the rest of the set to bend to its will and creates an inconsistent feel. It would probably have been a lot better as a Special, but such would be untrue to the character. At the moment, the set is sort of a very weak like for me, barely held up by its very fun Neutral Special and respectable gameplan.
Also, I think the F-air is way overpowered for what is Marth's F-air, being able to kill at 100% through the sweetspot.[/collapse]
[collapse="ForwardArrow"]Kunkka
I really have to make a DoTA2 set sometime, given how much of my free time it soaks up now, but suffice to say this is a set I'm fairly glad to see made. The use of the tidebringer passive is simple but honestly pretty interesting what with how it basically creates a double sized copy of the hitbox over top of the original. You don't really get to conserve it either, meaning pulling off the particularly powerful hits or abusing the water aspect of it properly will take some work, though Kunkka has some fairly interesting tools to make it work, between his puddles/water zoning moves and X Marks the Spot. Admittedly you got the wrong animation on X Marks the Spot but I can't fault you because that logically seems like what it would be, sadly the game is a fair bit cartoonier than you might've thought in that respect. At any rate, its one of the more interesting uses of sweetspot heavy stuff I've seen with how the extended sword works into it and the various spacing techniques in the set... up until the grab game, which may as well not exist. Its not the worst it could be when you at least give us a full set of throws, but it shows you clearly ran out of steam and its a pretty big shame when the aerials start out with 2 of the best moves in the set. Still, it comes across as surprisingly well characterized given you don't know the character that insanely well and the playstyle is pretty fun on a whole, so good work.[/collapse]
[collapse="MasterWarlord"]MEME BOAT
Ignoring balance, Kunkka is a pretty fun moveset with a great interpretation of a passive cleave mechanic, and it’s very impressive you managed to get as much mileage out of it as you did to use as a moveset basis. The specials, smashes, and some of the standards are all pretty great stuff. Moreso than just the aerials, the throws could really do with more than generic spacing when you have both X Marks the Spot and the anchor, as they and the usually better defined melee game should have you more than covered for those sorts of basic needs.
The moveset feels very overpowered to me with it only taking 5 seconds to recharge tidebringer. The numbers on range and knockback are universally very high with it out, and it feels like it’d be very difficult to actually whiff with it in several cases. When Tidebringer also recharges so easily, I also don’t know how much purpose the moves that don’t waste the cooldown are, seeing it will be back very quickly anyway. X Marks the Spot, Torrent, and binding the foe to an anchor in tandem also feels like a bit of overkill and borders on lockdown, and isn’t as easily handwaved as the scarily strong numbers in the moveset.[/collapse]
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Baby Bowser
by ChaosKiwi
by ChaosKiwi
[collapse="Katapultar"]Baby Bowser is... okay. The Specials are at Mii Fighter quality level, but the set surprisingly gets -better- as it goes on. Which is to say, I found the B-air and F-throw funny. I'd say he's better than Scorpion, and that he's a good offering for the MYM16 SM I will probably write when the contest comes to a close.[/collapse]
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Fi
by ChaosKiwi
by ChaosKiwi
[collapse="JOE!"]Fi
Here we have a refreshingly "grounded" set that still manages to be creative in both character and function.
The specials fit fi like a sheath, with the trademark skyward strike, an interesting pirroutte reminiscent of the mach tornado, and two moves I feel you under sell. Dowsing Strike is a mix of Shield Breaker and Homing Attack which mixed with her great spacing maneuvers makes for a deadly "bubble" around her that she can use as combo space. Making sure foes are in said bubble is the Trial Gate which feels criminally underdeveloped. You have a unique area denial move that simply stops folks from moving through it, but I assume anything else could move past. This highlights her dancing, spacing playstyle even more as she can force foes to stick around that "bubble" I mentioned. A bit more details into how it works would have been nice.
Aside from that, her ability to shrink into a skinny sword form is certainly interesting, as is her grab game. I love the way the grab works as more a "net" than a tether or such to add to its range, able to catch multiple opponents. However, the mirrored skyward strike throw takes a little away from the normal one in her arsenal imo.
Overall a very enjoyable read that brings out Fi's character in a vet fitting fashion. The only complaint would be to look into the %s your smashes are dealing. Not even ganon tosses out 25% per smash uncharged![/collapse]
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Groose
by ChaosKiwi
by ChaosKiwi
[collapse="JOE!"]Groose
The writing is to the point and hilarious here. The side B especially slayed me with the image of Groose tiptoeing ala Fred Flintstone with the bomb. The photoshopped pictures were fun as well. Many of the same compliments should be said for Groose as I mentioned with Fi. The characterization is great, and the dual grab is a nice touch that still managed to be different from Fi's wide grab. The useage of the Bomb Flowers here and there was a nice touch of characterization along with his "Bully" grapple style.
However, he has a few problems, mainly just the Uair and Neutral B. The Uair while not as bad, is just sort of a weird move in how it's a command grab yet not. The Nspec however is a different case in that I feel it really has no place in the set. For example, on the ground you have a grab that hits on both sides of you to cover "foes going by you" for your grapple strings. In the air, you have Down B which will rush your forward as well as immediately grba at point blank going by the description. And for a suicide (which I think this does?) he has the Up B slam down. Aside from a KO move, what is the purpose of this grapple? He already has strong finishers throughout the set, so its not like it is super needed for him, and he would tech chase better with his normal gab and down B (or even Up B) anyways.
Overall, another great set by you.[/collapse]
[collapse="Katapultar"]This set probably has your best writing style and is the most amusing to read...period. And that grab game blows Duck Hunt Dog out of the grass. It's a gem, and not just because the Groose is finally loose.
I wish I could like this set, and that its execution as an actual set lived up to the humour, but that wasn't the case for me. I don't think the Specials were all that conceptually strong, as is maybe the case with a few of your recent sets, and you've done better. That makes it a bit more difficult to like the set, compared to say Lore. There are some fun animations like with the Up Special, bomb uses in the standard attacks and grab, so maybe you could have had a basic bomb attack like Link's you can play around with to make use of the grab. The set is definitely one of your more fun ones though, and a more convincing set of Specials would have made it one of your best.[/collapse]
[collapse="Bionichute"]Pretty Loose
Groose is a fairly good set. It manages to both show Groose's INCREDIBLE MANLINESS and his buffoonery at the same time, while doing a neat grappling type playstyle. My only real complaints are the lack of detail, and the Grabs. The problem with the Grabs is that you really don't make use of being able to grab two opponents at once. You could have some neat chain grabbing stuff with the other command grabs, but it mostly just boils down to "Doing more damage".[/collapse]
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Ravio
by ChaosKiwi
by ChaosKiwi
[collapse="JOE!"]Ravio
This guys gives me Robin vibes in a good way. The usage of all the items is done very cleverly, and you even find efficient use of his little bird friend thingy. Pretty much echoing my comments of the other two Zelda sets, the characterization is superb (The Specials and throws I especially liked), but there are some things that are sort of missing from the move descriptions that leave me wanting more (as well as the whole Smash attack thing... at least list both the uncharged and charged %'s to avoid confusion?).
In essence, here and there some moves are just missing something. The Sand Rod for example isn't really clear if it is a wall or not. Going by the picture it seems to be, but then you say it acts as a platform as to imply you could go beneath it? Also, while u can have 1 "area" of them at a time, can you have 3 different pillars spread out among the stage? The Dsmash Bomb also states that there is a way to move it "later in the set", yet that is never mentioned again, just a little something that bugged me. The Fair also felt a little OP if still cool when combined with a delayed Usmash. Near an edge you could have 2 arrows (or more depending on Fair's lag and such) that fall and make a wall of spike-tacular death (not to mention the Ice rod) that makes Ravio incredibly scary at edgeguarding. Luckily that seems to be balanced out by his rather crappy recovery to make it sort of a "he can taste his own medicine" kind of deal, but still. Actually, between the Fire Rob making a moving wall of fire to cover edge jumps, the sand rod to make pillars at the edge to limit options, and the ice rod making a falling projectile and arrows, he has quit the cool edge defense going on that you didn't really mention! Well, there is also no playstyle section, so yeah...
Overall, Ravio rounds out this great set of three Zelda sets that combine a "grounded" smash feel while still being creative and very true to character. Aside from a few hiccups here and there, well done man.[/collapse]
[collapse="Katapultar"]Ravio is one of your more creative sets and a nice return to the department of neat concepts. It has a bit of interesting playground with the cool projectile smashes (especial arrow reaching a sand pillar), to the point where I somewhat wish maybe like the Side Special did more, but the Specials do all serve their own purpose otherwise and are fairly solid. Delayed hitboxes are always fun, and the execution with mish-mashing them together is certainly not bad, possibly some of the strongest in any of your sets and a well-founded playstyle. The only real point against the set with how it works at the moment is that your sand pillar can shut off your own projectile game, but it's nothing terrible and is good for the arrow interaction. I also like being able to carry the dsmash bomb with the Up Special, maybe along the side of the wall to meet opponents. It may not flow all the time, but this is a solid attempt at playground and possibly your best set. Which is great, man, and all the more impressive since you apparently pulled it off in 3 hours.[/collapse]
[collapse="FrozenRoy"]Raviolink
Ravio is a neat little ChaosKiwi set for, well, Ravio, a neat character from A Link Between Worlds.
Ravio is the kind of set where the character pulling out a lot of items makes sense, due to the fact that he is a merchant who sells them, and as can be seen even has neat images of him using the items! The primary crux of this moveset comes from the four Rod items in his Specials: The Sand Rod is probably the one that will stand out most to MYMers, due to the fact it involves terraforming, and while the terraforming is not very intense I am quite okay with that, as Ravio really should not be a huge terraformer and the terraforming here, allowing Ravio to make various vantage points, is pretty nice.
Along with that, Ravio can fire off a delayed chunk of ice with his Ice Rod, and it is neat how it somewhat works into his Sand Rod pillars because Ravio can better play with the ice diamond when it is launched from a higher vantage point, allowing him to play a little king of the sand hill with it. The Fire Rod, meanwhile, creates a slowly advancing inferno that Ravio is fast enough to even outrun and thus play around with, while being able to really take up some place with this slow moving projectile, which can force enemies onto the high ground where he has some moves to smack them or make them want to retreat and cede the high ground he can also use to him. The Tornado Rod is the only really purely boring one here, pretty much just a standard recovery, but it does have a little quirk or two that can work with the Sand Rod pillars. Perhaps it would have been fun if the Tornado Rod could interact with the other Rods, like blowing the icy diamond out in a direction or taking sand up with him? Food for thought. The Tornado Rod does gain some additional use later, though, so it isn't a bad move, just potentially even more there.
Ravio's smashes are also pretty nice: His Up Smash is neat because it goes high enough for Ravio to hit up his pillars, and the arrow goes slightly forward, so Ravio can "snipe" up at foes who want to use his Sand Pillars for himself, not to mention normal uses like edgeguarding or using the delay as the arrow comes down for offensive purposes, especially since the arrow is a bit stronger on the way down. Ravio can also throw a boomerang with his Forward Smash, but he can move while it is in the air much like Link/Young Link and the boomerang will keep flying even if he intentionally dodges it, giving him a nice travelling hitbox to work with: It isn't anything revolutionary, but it is a very solid move that works into his playstyle nicely. It is also fun that, much like the arrow works better on the way down, the boomerang is a bit different on the way back, trading in damage for more raw KO power, so Ravio even has reasons to perhaps want to miss with his boomerang and have it come back to hit the foe, or to launch it seemingly away from himself, then approach the foe so this more powerful boomerang comes flying in while Ravio is dealing with the foe. Finally, Ravio can place a bomb with his Down Smash, which is a fairly standard bomb and again nothing revolutionary, but the way he can blow it around with the Tornado Rod, raise it up with the Sand Rod or use it as a quick getaway from his high perches or whatnot gives it a good deal of playstyle relevance and makes it a fun move.
In general, Ravio stumbles in the areas outside the quite nice Specials and Smashes, though they are usually not bad as much as they are not good or bland: I like the idea of the Sheerow moves and I even find the Up Tilt good, it works into his playstyle well, but I do not feel that many of the Sheerow moves do fit in. The Down Tilt is also a nice move and, while it isn't anything to write home about, it is one of those generally relevant moves you put into a set that plays into his game that plays with air foes. In general, though, the aerials and grab game do not have as much relevance to the set, though I did like how Sheerow can chuck bombs around, it is a nice little touch that can work into the playstyle, though I wonder why Sheerow cannot chuck them up/down as well. The Down Throw is also pretty nice, especially when you realize that since the Sand Rod lets him make pillars he can use this to sort of spike foes on the stage, which can lead to some fun stuff, so it isn't like the grab section is bad or anything, they're just not particularly good.
Ravio feels like one of your better sets overall, Kiwi, it has a more focused playstyle and it has more to work into it, and while it is far from perfect it is a solid set worth taking a look at. I'm hoping you can make more sets like this, not necessarily in how it plays, but in how it has solid flowing to it, especially compared to your other sets.[/collapse]
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The War Mage
by Ffamran
by Ffamran
[collapse="Katapultar"]Welcome to Make Your Move! You've certainly got an interesting way of presenting details, and that character quote is quite fitting. No beating around the bush here.
There's a good understanding of the way attacks work, and the damage percentages are handled nicely despite the fact that you're unsure... If anything, I'd say that your U-tilt, D-tilt and N-air could be a bit stronger and have their sweetspots deal 10-11%, as they seem underpowered compared to some other moves with reasonable percentages. It's also reasonable to have throws that deal 8-12% on average, or at least in Make Your Move, unless you're going for something like Marth.
From what I get, the set uses a prop on every input, which is pretty admirable and represents his game (even though little attention is called to it in the intro, though I guess the premise is obvious enough). It would have been fun if War Mage's stupidity was represented in his set though, like in his attack animations, mostly because they're brought to attention at the start. The set is pretty basic with Specials drawing comparisons from Smash, but I do like the idea of the inaccurate crossbow and think it's an interesting, original idea. It actually kind of represents War Mage's stupidity, and I can imagine hilarious moments where you accidentally set off your own bombs because of a random stray arrow. I love it.
This is actually a very good start for a first set, and I look forward to seeing if you can throw out more. You might want to put replies and the set itself in separate posts in the future, though.[/collapse]
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Ephraim
by Ffamran
by Ffamran
[collapse="ChaosKiwi"]EPHRAIM
Well, I'm glad to see you have a lot of enthusiasm, putting out a second set already. However, this one seems pretty rushed. Namely, the utter lack of knockback and damage. Like, those are pretty essential. The thing is this isn't, in theory, a bad set. There's a lot of potential here, it's just so barebones that it's near impossible to give commentary more than "add more information".[/collapse]
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Carbink
by ChaosKiwi
by ChaosKiwi
[collapse="Getocoolaid"]Carbink
Man, I love Fairy Pokemon. I know it's cool to hate on Carbink, but I've not had any sort of ill will towards the thing, kind of thinking of it as a more fabulous Geodude.
Anyway, I really like this simple little set. Stealth Rock is used in an exceedingly clever way here, especially in regards to things like fall-through platforms and grabbing. The set doesn't do anything revolutionary, but it works, and it sure as hell uses everything that the character can conceivably do in without being OOC. So, yes I quite like it, it's possibly one of my favorites of yours, Kiwi. Keep it up![/collapse]
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Venusaur
by JOE!
by JOE!
[collapse="Katapultar"]I found Venusaur hard to like as a set. Overgrow is a neat little mechanic, but the Specials felt lackluster to the point where the Standards couldn't play off them much, resulting in them being very meta and read-based in a manner which any character could do. This doesn't make for a totally entertaining read, but I can understand why you would go for such in your movesets given what you look for in sets. Solarbeam, which is Ivysaur's Neutral Special from Project M, is a pretty respectable move on its own, but having to use Overgrow on the other Specials whenever you have enough of it seems like it would be quite annoying. Like if Little Mac could and had to use portions of his power meter on his Specials, though Venusaur's case is easily solved by making it so the player has to smash the input to get the effect.
If there's one thing I have to credit you for, it's that you did a very good job in capturing the Grass-type feel in Venusaur, from the poisoning, healing and even aerial vulnerability to mirror its flying-type weakness. It fits Venusaur, being the first Grass-type. It's just that I couldn't get excited for the set when it doesn't really play off what little it has, making it a very average set in my eyes.[/collapse]
[collapse="ForwardArrow"]Venusaur
I won't deny that the set was made a bit more likeable by the edits you made, giving him a more clear playstyle and actually giving a further use of the Overgrow stacks with charging the Smashes faster... albeit I really don't think its all that insanely useful a change in the grand scheme, but anything to do with them is nice. That being said, I found this set to be pretty disappointing with how little presence Overgrow felt like it had on the set past the Specials, which I can respect on some level because you want to let Venusaur build up stacks and not expend them on every move or force every move to rely on them. However the rest of the set doesn't feel like it supports the Specials very well even without Overgrow getting involved, at most just creating follow ups into them with the throws or just having the odd healing sweetspot(I don't really see why a powder cloud hitting someone should heal you when it sweetspots either, nothing indicates a life drain). Its basically just Project M Ivysaur with a slight modification to how the Specials work in the end, which isn't bad for functionality, but all the set really accomplishes is functionality and nothing more.
Though really speaking of functionality, that Up Aerial is kind of terrible. There's no reason to attach a weak pitfall effect to that, many stronger stall then falls don't do that. I know Smash 4 randomly slapped a bunch of pitfalls onto people's movesets but that's frankly just bad design and aesthetics.[/collapse]
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Charizard
by JOE!
by JOE!
[collapse="Katapultar"]I was actually looking forward to Charizard, because I thought you might do a unique take on him when he feels overly clunky in Smash and a bit off on the Specials. Giving him better jumps and making him floatier addressed one of those problems, but other than that he's basically Sm4sh Charizard with Rock Smash traded in for his (admittedly pretty cool) Project M Special. I know you're a massive fan of Project M Charizard due to mentioning it in your Skowl advertisement, but it sort of feels like you're just writing up an already-existing moveset when half of the animations are recycled from the real thing. Sort of reminds me of MYM 14 TAC being overly similar to the MYM 6 Rool version, and I'm really not a fan of copycat sets.
Onto the set itself, this particular Flamethrower is crazy overpowered: it goes twice as far as the real thing, pushes opponents back that far AND can be held out for a ridiculous 5 seconds. Oh, and you can use it offstage effectively given Charizard is floaty and has a good recovery, gimping opponents with insane ease. The real Flamthrower can only be held out for like, 1.5 seconds at most before it really starts shrinking down. It doesn't seem to take that long to recharge either, murdering offstage opponents and sometimes pushing them back too far to recover. That might be an exaggeration, and it can be number-crunched anyway. In any case, the move don't seem to have a lot of flow with the rest of the set, as it actually barely pushes opponents out of Flare Blitz's effective range, does a better job at dealing with offstage opponents than your air game ever could, and you don't really want to position opponents horizontally away from you.
Flare Blitz has the best flow in the set due to dragging opponents offstage and damaging Charizard for his rage mechanic, but it doesn't "feel" like Flare Blitz unlike the SSB4 attack: it's power and recoil are not very pronounced, but more that it's designed for a "conversion" move as you say and not a big KO move. It's still a good move in context of the set, though. The rest of the set can be a bit of a bore to read through and visualize properly due to the large number of different hitboxes on each attack which don't always play into something (even though that's really the case with some Smash sets), which might be partly due to 80% of the move animations being taken from the real Charizard. I do wish at the very least the Dash Attack had a different animation.
Overall, Charizard feels like a personal set trying to stay overly true to the original. It has a similar feel to Venusaur in that the Specials don't feel all that exciting, even though they can be played off a bit more, highly lacking originality. Can't help but walk away disappointed by you not doing anything unique or really new with Charizard despite you being more than capable of such.[/collapse]
[collapse="ForwardArrow"]Charizard
I came away from Charizard with almost nothing to say about it, and because its a much more extreme case than Venusaur in that unlike Venusaur it doesn't even really have an interesting mechanic too it, just being "the more damage is dealt the more damage you deal", basically impossible to work off of in any enjoyable way especially when the effect is as small as it is. Yes he functions perfectly fine with no Blaze going, but at that point the mechanic may as well not exist. The set otherwise really just feels like Brawl Charizard with improved animations in a couple areas... and a few worse ones, I really hate the idea of Charizard beating people with his wings as a means of attack. He's a damn dragon, beating people with his wings is hardly an effective means of combat. I know its in Brawl, but Sakurai is not exactly faultless(again, see stuff like random exploding Pikmin custom specials in Smash 4).[/collapse]
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Blastoise
by JOE!
by JOE!
[collapse="Katapultar"]Blastoise is definitely better than the other 2 sets, having more flow, some better Specials and a mechanic that doesn't feel obstructive. All the Specials feel remotely interesting: Up Special with its pushing and gimping, Neutral Special with its recoil, power and range, Side Special controlling your spacing and Down Special for its various effects, though I do think raindrops increasing falling speed is rather tacky. Rain Dance might seem a bit powerful, but it's really not that bad given the starting lag, and how your Neutral and Side Special contribute to giving you the spacing necessary to pull it off. If anything, only the increased falling speed seems a bit overpowered against foes trying to recover since you can just use it when they're trying to get back onstage, and it makes landing timing-based moves like your F-air more difficult.
Torrent feels better-handled here than Overgrow, namely because there's a better choice of moves it affects and the effects it gives out of them are a bit more interesting. They are all power moves you would want to save for later and arguably use from a distance, which is likely where you'll want to be when charging up Torrent. The set just sort of appeals to me with the neat all-purpose Side Special that can bash through foes or space for you, and you've got some means of taking advantage of the spacing you receive. It helps that the set is somewhat self-aware of its Specials, with moves like the U-air being dedicated to knocking enemies sideways so it can set-up for moves like Hydro Cannon which need enemies next to you.[/collapse]
[collapse="ForwardArrow"]Blastoise
I feel like this set turned out better than the other two because its not some kind of weird idealization of a Project M set, because Blastoise can't really be a semi-cloned Squirtle given the cannons on his back. The mechanic comes across as very similar to Kunkka's, and honestly the product is much worse on account of not really having anything to it beyond building up power for the mechanic, not really having the kind of interesting zoning/sweetspot stuff Kunkka did, or at least not to the same degree. I probably shouldn't compare it to Kunkka when you haven't even read the set, but the similarities are so obvious it makes it much harder to appreciate what on a whole comes across as a weaker attempt at the same thing.
Its not really a bad set on its own merits though, the animations feel a lot more satisfying than those of his two counterparts, the moves have more defined purposes, and it hits an aspect the other 2 missed out on, it feels fun to play, as the results feel a lot more tangible than the numbers-y stuff that feels like it ultimately has little impact in the first two. I still feel that it could afford to get more creative with the use of the mechanic and honestly it comes across as not having all that much depth to his playstyle(and frankly I think the 30 second variation of the cannons is almost never going to see use), but its by no means bad.[/collapse]
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Hero's Shade
by Ffamran
by Ffamran
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Judge Nemo
by Katapultar
by Katapultar
[collapse="ForwardArrow"]Damon Gan- I mean Judge Nemo
Well this was quite a pleasant surprise, I didn't really expect a set from you this spontaneously, and better yet I think it turned out really good. The set is basically a huge extension of Michael Reynolds' dummy men, making pretty much an entire set of them given the character can basically do nothing else... and honestly, I think it worked out better than I could have expected. Being able to turn the monsters into weapons and back, as well as switching control to one of the more competent ones as a means to protect Nemo with his hilariously bad weight and jump animation gives him a surprising amount of viability for how mechanically awkward he is. It still is quite underpowered I think, mostly because the early part of the match before he gets a good set up is a very painful one with how frail his minions are and frankly he doesn't even snowball all that hard. I actually think that's a good thing as it means once he gets going he has to be very proactive and do interesting stuff with his minions rather than sitting back and letting them do the work, but with how bad he is before he gets going or if he ever gets fully exposed he definently could afford to be a bit stronger. To round out the negative, its a small thing but unless its an actual thing from the game I kind of hate the Mothman having a random Pokemon move thrown into his set, as putting Pokemon moves in non-Pokesets is a longstanding cliche in MYM but a really terrible one.
The actual playstyle is pretty great though despite that, as I mentioned how proactive he has to be with using the minions makes him very interesting and fun to imagine playing as in a way a lot of set up characters are not. Obviously when you dedicate as much of the set as you do to the minions they better be good, and they are, among my favorites being the cockatrice, the zombie, and the dragon zombie, although almost all of them are fun, whether because of the minion itself or the fusion/magichange effects, often all 3. The main set doesn't have much stuff to mess with the minions on account of being so dedicated to making the, but they play off each other in pretty interesting ways. And besides the Professor is plenty good if you want to mess around with and tweak the minions anyway, having almost a full moveset within the set dedicated to that purpose, albeit being rather high risk high reward with how the minion works. So yes, I really like the set, albeit I could see the balance and slightly strange input use not being everyone's cup of tea.[/collapse]
[collapse="MasterWarlord"]SUPERVILLIAN GANT
Nemo is a very strange set. Immediate concerns are brought up against a moveset that appears to be from the forgotten age of MYM 5, with a character who summons minions on absolutely every move. Similar to Reynolds, the minions attack as they are created, though, and he can just pick moves based off the hitboxes/defense rather than the minion spawned. He also has immediate access to regular movesets with the Neutral Special minions that he can take direct control of. The coolest method of direct attack Nemo has, though, is turning his minions into weapons that keep some of the old properties of the minions. There’s so many ways to manipulate the minions with the weapons, combining them, and the professors, that this really is the ultimate “create a minion” moveset in existence, bar none. It still goes out of its way to be a moveset that can fight, though. If anything, the moveset leans towards overpowered, especially when he can just blip out of existence until a certain minion is killed with Up B. I don’t think it’s especially imbalanced, though, when he actually does have to abuse his extensive defensive options to survive due to his massive frailness.
You demonstrated with the Neutral Special that minions can be contained within a single input, and it’s still very awkward having all of these moves dedicated to minions. Doesn’t it seem odd that Nemo has to dash to summon a certain minion, or jump in the air to summon others (Especially when you make a big point of making his grounded jump laggy)? It still works on a basic level due to the attacks being present, but I think you still could have managed a better job mapping this all out. On the other hand, it seems like this may have been the best way to do it for characterization, given he never actually fights. I also find it a bit off that the movesets of the battlearmor and androids don’t exist and that the professor is missing aerials, but again, it’s very easy to ignore given the wealth of content present in the moveset. I would say that you should make those minions only have a handful of attacks like the rest, but I do like that you’ve given Nemo several movesets which he can play from when he actually wants them. While there is awkwardness present, it can all really be justified in one way or another. This is easily my favorite set of yours, Kat.[/collapse]
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Dhoulmagus
by MasterWarlord
by MasterWarlord
[collapse="ForwardArrow"]Dhoulmagus
So now that this set is edited up with a good last set of moves, I'm very impressed with the final result. Its nice to see a set that uses duplicates with no intention of wasting their potential on mindgames, instead using them to create a powerful spacing game with their desyncronizing and ways of controlling each other's positioning, as well as defending each other or making their deaths not in vain, as the duplicates are extremely flimsy. There is the promise of a very powerful grab game as a reward if you line all these things up, though its not easy especially when your setup has a tendency to set itself on fire.
How exciting his spacing material is tends to vary between moves, its never dull but the real highlights are the Smashes/Jab/Fair(I always wanted wind hitbox moves that changed projectile speed to become a thing, they're a lot more interesting than a straight reflector albeit fairly weak). That said there's a lot of simple appeal in having the duplicates be able to use pseudo counters, or teleport opponents between the group of them. I do feel that some of the moves feel a bit impractical to use for melee at times(DSmash comes to mind, great as it is, as well as the Fair's lack of damage) but the amount of this is a lot less than in the older version and its worth sacrificing what ultimately is a tiny amount of practicality to fulfill the sets vision.[/collapse]
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Evil Sir Leopold
by MasterWarlord
by MasterWarlord
[collapse="ForwardArrow"]Sir Leopold
This was a set that really surprised me, because I didn't know how much mileage you could really get out of this character compared to Dhoulmagus. The status effects that serve as both a buff and a debuff and the ability to use them on the wolf minions as well as the foe would be enough to keep the set interesting, but then you can strip away the buffs on the foe via Up Special and play into their newfound debuffs in a variety of interesting ways, such as creating more things the foe has to attack to build up Savage Fury. Of course there's no lack of great aspects to the way the dogs are used too, a lot of interactions with them are very fun such as fighting over the foe in a throw. The real selling point though is the ability to swap bodies between dogs, which start weak but grow over time as you stay in the weaker body, as well as using the status effects you applied to them to keep yourself remotely competent in this gimped form.
The characterization is really fun too, with the way Rhapthorne manipulates this pack of otherwise very dumb animals into a group of proper killing machines, but he has to be careful, as this is the most vulnerable he's ever been with the very mediocre body he's been given. Its emphasized in that despite his giant size, his attacks are rather underwhelming without good use of dogs, buffs, and debuffs, and lends the set to an incredible amount of depth. In all honesty there's very little for me to complain about, there's little to no redundancy and every move barring a couple aerials is fun and adds a lot to his game, and even in the case of said aerials they're hardly bad, just a bit underwhelming compared to the rest of the set. This is easily better than anything you made in MYM15.[/collapse]
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Wizzro
by Bionichute
by Bionichute
[collapse="ForwardArrow"]Wizzro
I can see why you think this set is your best, because it does function in a more interesting way than your sets normally do, with the hitboxes in the moveset being supposed to work in a fairly heavy trapper/camper-ish fashion, but there being specific points in the range he wants to zone them too to profit off different attacks. It actually is pretty interesting, albeit there's not really enough in the way of tools to get foes to the specific parts of your attacks, if that was more of a focus I could see this set being strong enough conceptually for a vote. The main thing holding it back though, aside from just not flowing well enough, is that the set makes several moves a fair bit too powerful with each individual hitbox dealing as much damage as you'd expect all hits on the given input COMBINED to do. Now admittedly you won't always hit with every component of the attack, but the possibility of a projectile Side Special dealing up to 80% is ridiculous, and a few other moves(Nair and the Down Special come to mind) have similarly ridiculous damage potential. If it wasn't feasible to hit with all the hitboxes at once it wouldn't be a big deal, but given it is the set ends up being very overpowered.
As a last nitpick, I kind of wish you had given us an image for the Spirit Fish. I found it rather unbelievable he could just summon evil fish when I first saw it but if you had some picture evidence it'd be reassuring.[/collapse]
[collapse="MasterWarlord"]WIZZERD
Wizzro has a more coherent playstyle than your usual fare, though the main reasons seem to be choosing a magical character that can do most anything and doing a simple playstyle of camping. While just camping is a bit boring, the moveset seems even remotely self aware like Pompy was, and I think the individual moves are trying a good bit harder in this one than Pompy. The moves aren’t the same thing over and over, though I wish they were relevant to the playstyle for more reasons than being long range/projectiles. An obvious example of something you could do would be for him to store and release projectiles with portals.
The numbers are a bit off still, but it doesn’t really hurt the moveset for balance at this point and just presents a small bit of awkwardness here and there. Hopefully playing SSB4 should give you some good experience.
I know that the bthrow turning Wizzro into the foe is something he does, but something that big needs to be central to the character’s gameplay. As of now, it could be placed on another moveset and be just as relevant to them (Ignoring aesthetics). A move like this is also kind of strange on a throw, and would sooner be a Special. If you don’t want to make a commitment that big to the shapeshifting (It is very difficult to make a key element in a moveset), Wizzro does a lot of things and it wouldn’t be unheard of to uninclude it in the main moveset – the Final Smash could be a decent place for this if you want to add it in just for the sake of it.[/collapse]
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Steven Chapman
by Getocoolaid
by Getocoolaid
[collapse="ForwardArrow"]Steven Chapman
I don't dislike the concept of piling up objects in your cart to use as a weapon, though honestly I think it was a bit of a mistake the way you executed it, not really having any fun things to do with them once they're in the cart and the fact that honestly the cart has a completely ridiculous capacity. 5 zombies would not fit in that thing, and you provide no limit for anything else, so you could potentially pile 7 Bowsers into the thing in 8 player smash along with 5 zombies, 15 Exploding Crates, and insert colossal minions/traps of your choice here. Also given the thing is covered in blades and his main means of attack in the boss fight, it should deal more than 2% on contact. Aside from that, after introducing the zombies you basically give nothing we can put into the cart, and its kind of unfair your opponent is going to do that favor for you as most Brawl characters and several MYM sets don't.[/collapse]
[collapse="MasterWarlord"]BLACK FRIDAY
First off, the moveset really needs to put caps on how many foes can be inside Steven’s cart, and to lower the amount of zombies that can fit. The clipping would be insane with 5 zombies, and this is something the moveset wants to feasibly happen. While it’s strange that zombies somehow can’t attack the guy that will never leave the cart, I’ll ignore that since there are bigger problems and the character is pretty hilarious. It’s more strange that Steven gets buffs for having more things in the cart, and basically has super strength to be able to move the cart around with that many things on it in moves like dsmash, dair, and uair. If anything, it should be more difficult to move the cart around in these kinds of moves.
The recovery is a very weak move, and probably should’ve been replaced with the dashing attack on a special. Several attacks seem physically impossible while using the dashing attack, along with others in general like the uair. The primary purpose of zombies appears to be to throw them so you can jump on them with Up B to recover. . .It’ a very awkward moveset badly cobbled together, but it’s awkward in a pretty hilarious way that vaguely works for the character. Just don’t try to pull some of these things off on a more “normal” character.
. . .Then I realized the character doesn’t work if there are multiples of him in the match. Not making the cart be a hurtbox in any form was a strange decision and wasn’t thought about in remote detail. Two Chapmans walking into each other will cause them to just walk against each other forever. With these massive cart “shields” in front of the Chapmans, they will never be able to hit each other without jumping to try to get behind the other guy. Whichever one gets impatient and jumps will be put at an immediate disadvantage, as the other Chapman will undoubtedly catch him. If one somehow gets behind the other one, he can easily just turn around and get the cart “shield” in front of himself again.
Upon catching another Chapman in your cart, he’ll clip out of the cart because he’s so big. . .Right in front of the hitbox at the front of your cart, probably, and if the Chapman who caught the other one moves he’ll hit him with the passive moving hitbox infinitely. Since the Chapman in the cart is technically still “against a wall”, he won’t be able to take knockback and will get infinited. If you bring even more Chapmans into the picture. . .Yeah, just think about it for two seconds. This was a hilarious diversion, but you seem to be best when sticking with simple characters, Geto.[/collapse]
[collapse="Katapultar"]Others have already addressed the problems with the set and how the cart works, in that it is awkward and unfun to fight against when the enemy constantly has to go around it to attack Steve. Granted, I don't think the cart idea is inherently bad, just the way it was handled in how you make it permanently affixed to the character. Sure, Steve is never seen without his cart in his boss fight, and it's specialized to boot, but it restrains a lot of his potential and forces him to resort to awkward maneuvers like those seen in the set. I really think you could have gotten a lot of mileage out of just having the cart summoned on a Special, where you could keep it out as a disjointed obstacle you could not only ride on to do all your tricks you can only do on your cart, but also use it as a projectile to ram enemies with and what not. Or, you could make Steve have the cart on his person at the start and be able to detach himself with it, summon a new one if it goes offstage. Sets these days are closer to Smash Bros than ever, so we don’t really need gimmicks ruling over them to impress others like in MYM11-12 and what not. Also, being able to jump off things forever with the Up Special is weird for the character, flavor-wise.
For all its problems, there were parts about the set that I found somewhat charming. I enjoyed the humorous headers, for one, and found the animation of the N-air strangely vivid and interesting. No other characters fights while riding on a shopping cart, so there are things that Steve can do that only he can do, even if it’s mostly attacking from behind due to limitations. The set is fine for the movement and even hilarious, but the character definitely has potential and could make for an insanely unique set with how he could take out weapons from his cart and we already know he’s pretty creative given how loaded the cart is to begin with. It would certainly be fun to revisit in the future.[/collapse]
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Brandon Whittaker
by Junahu
by Junahu
[collapse="ForwardArrow"]Brandon
What bugs me about this set from the start is that the zombies don't seem to actually hurt the opponent, only gripping onto them, and there's no way to have more than two out. I guess I can see why you'd take that approach to prevent them from being too obtrusive, but I still wish there was a way to increase their numbers and that they had more means of attack than setting them up for Brandon's attacks. That said after the awkward start the set does get a bit better, while it never does anything terribly exciting the moves at least early on are designed to create some interesting spacing situations for zombies, allowing him much more defined control over them than a foe while still not making him invulnerable too them. And while I'm not totally sure making the wasps deal 2 seconds of stun to zombies when they die was the best decision, it feels surprisingly tolerable as a use of stun given how little it will happen in a given match and that it can backfire. Its an improvement from Fulci for sure.
All the same I do think the moves lose the interesting nature of their spacing element later on, in the throws/aerials there's still some aspect of that to foes, but zombies just kind of get left in the dark. It'd be fine if the melee game wasn't really bland without zombies present, though at least there's any depth to it. And I'm going to go out of my way to mention two things. One, swinging a protest sign downwards to boost yourself into the air is a ridiculous way to recover and the animation feels more suited to a Dair, and its rather random for him to just pull out this prop all of a sudden. Two, I'm just going to say now that custom specials are pretty much completely irrelevant to me and I think they were a poor addition to Smash 4, so if that was meant to be a selling point for the set it didn't work, though I will say I was pleasantly surprised that none of the custom specials really felt bad or like they directly outclassed another move.[/collapse]
[collapse="MasterWarlord"]ACCURATE PARODY
The main thing that has to be brought up immediately is that the zombies just grab people, restrain them, then let them go. There is no pummeling, no biting, no nothing from these zombies. Maybe Brandon is right and these zombies really are upstanding people? Even if delicious raw meat is placed on the foe or you send them into a bloodlust, they still won’t take so much as one bite out of the foe. The only instance of biting is in the intro animation, and that turns an NPC into a zombie despite it later being said that the wasps are the actual cause of the zombie plague?
There probably need to be more than two zombies. The point of these things is that there’s so many of them, generally. You’re the first set I’ve seen to feature so heavily fighting alongside such a low number of unnamed zombies. The glass shard is a remotely fun weapon for a low potential character like this, and the dulling/sweetspot mechanic was interesting. Of course, I’d be lying through my teeth if I said I wasn’t very bored throughout the reading of this set. The multiple specials get into self parody territory pretty quickly, what with him flapping a protest sign to recover, a wasp that is cooperative so long as Brandon keeps moving, taking out a gun to use on one alternate special, and superspeed teleportation after trying to prove that Brandon is an average weakling for most of the set (Save for some. . .Rather heavyweight throws). They do provide some much needed variety after the monotony of the main set, and they’re a fun read for the wrong reasons.[/collapse]
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Slappy
by Smash Daddy
by Smash Daddy
[collapse="ForwardArrow"]Slappy
I'm going to say that this set isn't a very strong one in terms of concepts, as the core is simply creating fire traps and attacking in motion, both concepts that rarely end up going in productive directions. You get surprising mileage out of both, partially with the fairly simple concept of just setting every prop that shows up in the set on fire and having fun with that. Its not a particularly complex approach, but with the item combining in Down Special and the various ways you can create chain reactions of fire and explosions it ends up a surprisingly deep one, albeit not ever calculated enough to feel out of character for this incredibly manic character. The characterization is pretty fantastic on a whole.
The moves don't have super strong connection at points, some just being based around using the fact that you're in motion while attacking, though you at least find unique niches within that concept that feel a lot better than the ones used back in MYM11, such as the fact that the Down Tilt is most powerful when you're stopping(especially on gasoline) rather than at full speed. It does in a few cases get to being straight up filler, but given the character has that gigantic mask which he absolutely has to use to attack and there's not really much of anything you can do to flow with it, its enough that the attacks have any interesting nuances to them. All in all, its a very solid set and the best of the movement, and its more held down by the character's shallowness than mistakes on the part of the designer.[/collapse]
[collapse="MasterWarlord"]CASHMAN EMPLOYEE
Slappy’s playstyle offers little, though not much can be expected of the character and the individual moves all have some function. I like what you’ve done with his gimping game, as it prioritizes him actually surviving despite poor vertical recovery in an organic way that helps give life to a bland (powers wise) character you’d expect to have dull aerials. Momentum does much the same thing for the grab-game.
I especially like how you handled the “ammo” of the flamethrowers/dumping them for the gasoline inside. It’s obviously not something to get excited about, but the moveset knows it and doesn’t make a big deal out of it. Still, it’s treated as a very self-consistent mechanic that works naturally. That said, I do think 15 seconds without a flamethrower is a bit of a harsh penalty, especially when he needs the flamethrowers in order to actually make use of the gas at all. I would change it so that he gets the flamethrower back before the gas puddle expires (Say, 10 seconds) to enable him to better exploit it. You even suggest him giving up both of his flamethrowers to make a bigger puddle for some reason, when he will have nothing to set it off?
While the character’s simplistic abilities don’t do you any favors, you regularly make use of him to have some good characterization moments. The Down Special doesn’t feel like some competent villain performing set-up – it’s just the guy grabbing props as he skates around his store to burn up. He’s such an idiot he even forgot to bring gasoline to the fight, and has to empty it from his own weapons in order to get any. The props are all contained here instead of being placed throughout the moveset arbitrarily robbing him of attacks. It also enables the guy to not just take out a prop for every single attack and actually primarily fight the way he does in the game, making the few times he does take out props on regular inputs more organic.[/collapse]
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Loatheb
by FrozenRoy
by FrozenRoy
[collapse="ForwardArrow"]Loatheb
First of all, congrats on posting this movement, 5 sets in one go(and bonus Patchwerk today) is pretty impressive. And Loatheb turned out pretty well, though given the potential of the character I wonder if you could do more. The set starts off with the mushroom throwing items and poison and builds up several incentives to keep the opponent close and start slowly annihilating them with large amount of poison, as well as presenting an interesting way to end the match early in the spore clouds, which are somewhat necessary to his setup and create some fun high tension scenarios between players, that Loatheb can win out with his mushrooms and thorns, the later of which really was one of the most exciting parts of the set. A lot of moves are simple but they're rather necessary to allow him to keep the opponent fighting him up close and in the midst of poison, or to get one of your spore explosions from Side B to activate.
Now that said there are a few moves I felt were a bit below par, the Smashes felt a tad redundant with the Neutral Special in some respects and honestly not particularly impressive for Smashes on this character, which sticks out when the Smashes on even Patchwerk are pretty big standouts. And while I can get the need for spacing moves at times, the set has more of them than it really needs when with a character like this you have a lot of room to get creative. Its still a solid set though, and holds up well even when compared to the rest of the movement.[/collapse]
[collapse="MasterWarlord"]INTENTIONALLY BUFFING FOES: GMAN DTHROW, THE MOVESET
Loatheb regularly uses attacks that generate spore clouds that buff whoever is in them by 1.5x. This is necessary in some capacity due to the nature of the character, but it still could have been handled better. If nothing else, the concept is very unique, even though I’m unsure if I like the concept of something that can so heavily be used against Loatheb. This set could still have gone places with it presented how it is, but a lot of the melee is very, very, boring and uninspired. Much more boring than any of the other characters in the movement, who are trying significantly harder.
The thing that kills this moveset is the boss mode. It feels inherently underpowered to start with, but the “buff” clouds that Loatheb generates now directly nerf him for some inexplicable reason – he actively wants to avoid moves that create the clouds, and will even avoid hitting the sweetspot on his bair. The moveset wasn’t very suited for a boss mode to start with, and this one goes against everything the playstyle stands for while causing it to make even less sense. It’s a somewhat similar situation to Thaddius in that I want to focus on 1v1 only for Loatheb, but it’s harder to do when the boss mode usually included to improve a moveset is actively making it worse.[/collapse]
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Baron Rivendare
by FrozenRoy
by FrozenRoy
[collapse="ForwardArrow"]Rivendare
This is the weakest of the non-one day Naxx sets and its likely because conceptually its a bit straightforward. Stack debuffs and profit off the moves that get better with more debuffs, or debuffs that get better with more debuffs. It plays out in a rather straightforward and agressive manner, but there certainly are bits that give it more depth, like the blood parasite, the move stealing counter, and the runes that can be knocked out of opponents. The set also surprisingly manages to avoid any real awkwardness with the horse, aside from the fact that due to him being only slightly bigger than any Brawl character overall resulting in Rivendare himself's model being tiny as a result. Aside from that the set might have a little too much magic and too little swordplay, but my nitpicks aside there's still a lot of fun had with the admittedly straightforward concept to make this set enjoyable.[/collapse]
[collapse="MasterWarlord"]MY LITTLE DEATH KNIGHT
I am not going to excuse the tiny size of Rivendare. He’s as tall as Ganondorf while mounted, making him personally shorter than Mario. Using the characters in Brawl as a standard is very awkward when it’s designed with cutesy tiny characters in mind, and he still looks horrifically out of place next to them. Even if you disagree, he at least needs to look consistent with other characters in the movement, who are all very large, with the Ganondorf sized Kel’Thuzad being smallest. Rivendare looks like a baby.
The change to make the mark last only 12 seconds was a good one, as it means he won’t just be stacking on status effects for the entire game. Doing this is still his goal none the less, and the status effects applied are very strange, largely trying to be unique for the sake of it. This is quite the contrast to Grobbulus, who did his best to play off very straightforward and boring status effects. Rivendare’s status effects can seem so pointless at times that it seems like their main purpose is just to get any status effect on the foe at all, as several moves reward you for quantity of them regardless of their purpose. The main status effects that actually do things are the ones that automatically charge smashes, and the payoff there isn’t big enough to sell me on the set. Beyond them, it’s moves that react in magical ways based off how many status effects the foe has, or just generic ones. Some status effects seem to be specialized for “team” play, which means they’re basically more generic moves meant to come into relevance on an unwritten boss mode that requires you to make 3 more movesets. At least Thaddius had the decency to have said boss mode that made those generic moves relevant actually included upon release.
Rivendare could really use some minions – he’s a Death Knight, it’s one of the things he does. He doesn’t have minions in his Hearthstone deck for strictly mechanical reasons, and Hearthstone obviously should not dictate characterization. If it does, his actual card should be taken into consideration – triggering deathrattle twice would be quite fun to abuse with minions.[/collapse]
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Patchwerk
by FrozenRoy
by FrozenRoy
[collapse="ForwardArrow"]Patchwerk
I appreciate the extra addition to the movement a day late, and I assume there's still more to come. Patchwerk is a bit of a step above other sets that try to use multiple attacks at once in that the attacks feel much more dedicated to being used in tandem rather than just an afterthought for combos, and of course there's the rather fun frenzy and bleed mechanics too. The Smashes are a real highlight in that they provide cool ways to utilize all his current material like spreading around the defense limiting goop, creating divets in the stage that can provide extra hitboxes to make him harder to avoid, or serving as an attack that works very well into the hook strikes. The aerials and grab game barring one throw obviously are a bit lacking, but they're not explicitly bad and the rest of the set is fun enough to make it work out overall.[/collapse]
[collapse="MasterWarlord"]BERSERKER PUDGE
Patchwerk was an enjoyable take on the berserker archetype, and I was surprised you managed to balance these very scary mechanics of using multiple weapons at once in tandem with the powerful speed buffs. This moveset gets the most mileage out of more simplistic melee due to the two weapon mechanic compared to other sets in the movement. It actually managed to make an “anti-dodge” puddle in a way that I liked with some pretty great aesthetics on the dthrow, along with some moves to punish shielding foes to flow into his more offensive playstyle. Quite frankly, Grobbulus should be taking lessons from this guy. There still are some blander moves like the usmash floating around, but some degree of filler largely summarizes the entirety of my complaints with this one, leaving me quite happy with it by comparison.[/collapse]
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Grobbulus
by FrozenRoy
by FrozenRoy
[collapse="ForwardArrow"]Grobbulus
This was a very wise addition to have in the movement, as it takes from something that was done a while back and not fully explored in mutations with both upside and downside, and rather than taking a combo-y approach to it takes a slightly more methodical one, given he can bestow the mutations to the oozes as well while not necessarily being as good at chaining hits as the other mutation user. The set keeps a fairly nice balance between the elements too, with the Smashes being more dedicated to slime manipulation, giving him a decent amount of fun stuff to manipulate slime.
The standards and aerials, while not as exciting as the former inputs, are very necessary to the set, as they provide Grobbulus with unique ways to take advantage of the mutations, making them clearly in his favor whether on the foe or him. I particularly like the fact that the Dash Attack creates a unique follow up for each of them, or that you can create a KOing hitbox if you strike any of them with FTilt, but he needs this kind of stuff if he wants to properly abuse the foe's hurtbox extensions and weight variation. Its all solid stuff, though I will say that the aerials are noticeably weaker than the standards in playing off the mutations and at points the minion and mutation aspects of the playstyle feel a touch constrained by each other's existnace, not having enough inputs to fully explore both. Its a fine set though, one of the best in the movement.[/collapse]
[collapse="MasterWarlord"]RETURN OF HEAVYWEIGHT COMBOING
One of Grobbulus’ biggest foundations is his throws. While the first two throws are acceptable, the fthrow isn’t one of the status effects constantly advertised throughout the set, it’s not part of the foundation. While the dthrow expanding the foe’s hurtbox and making them heavier is fine, the uthrow and bthrow are completely and utterly bizarre. From a gameplay standpoint, the uthrow only helps with KOs, while the bthrow outright helps foes! There is no way you will ever convince me that a quarter of your movement speed in exchange for superarmor against attacks that deal 8% or less is a bad trade. Granted, Grobbulus can steal the status effect, but why doesn’t he just apply this effect to himself directly? Aesthetically these two move are even worse. Grobbulus regularly covers the foe in sludge, but the bthrow sludge serves as protection for some reason. The uthrow slime wings enable characters, and, yes, even Grobbulus himself, to fly. While ignorance can be claimed to many of Kel’Thuzad’s faults, I don’t know what context ever made you think allowing Grobbulus to fly was a good idea.
The meat of the moveset is largely based off of manipulating the status effects, often the terrible wings mentioned earlier. Most commonly it amounts to simply comboing the foe with greater weight, or a move getting some magical buff based off the foe having a status effect that has nothing to do with animation. It shows that you’re used to working with magical characters, as while it is easier to excuse in Kel’Thuzad and Rivendare, there are only so many things a punch can do.
The moveset is at its best when interacting with minions, and there is more that I enjoyed here than in Kel’Thuzad. The manipulation of slime was actually fun, and the interactions with the status effects there work a bit better (Though are still terrible aesthetically). I could like this moveset a good deal sooner than Kel’Thuzad, mostly by just writing new status effects for bthrow and uthrow. If you really wanted to go the extra mile, I’d say the status effects are all rather simplistic and could maybe be combined, giving him access to a better grab-game.
Grobbulus probably should’ve been a super heavyweight alongside Thaddius. He’s a flesh giant, and if he and Thaddius were roughly the same size as they are I’d expect Grobbulus to be heavier.
Your writing style has been getting more and more heavy handed over time, previously seen with how much you could talk about the more simplistic moves in the RWBY movement. At this point, I think I’m more of an “average” level of detail, with people like you and Katapultar at the top. I have no idea why you need so much time to describe the status effects of Grobbulus and Rivendare in the throws. . .Or the majority of Kel’Thuzad’s moveset. Thaddius and Patchwerk, who also happen to be my favorites, are the ones that get off the best with this problem.[/collapse]
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Thaddius
by FrozenRoy
by FrozenRoy
[collapse="ForwardArrow"]Thaddius
We don't really get sets dealing with magnetism enough anymore, and Thaddius is the first real one in a while that has good fun with it. He can polarize the foe and/or himself, and then create electric charges along the stage that play off both aspects quite nicely. I particularly found the splitting Ball Lightning and the general use of electric sources throughout the set a fun subelement as well. It suffers a similar problem to Loatheb in that it sometimes gets too much into simplistic melee and not as much of the more interesting elements of the set, though I'd say its less prevelant here and that magnetism in general is a better concept and on a whole more versatile. As with all the others, I liked it, though I'm struggling to say as much about it as I want. Though boss Thaddius should weigh way more than 12 holy crap.[/collapse]
[collapse="MasterWarlord"]FEUGEN AND STALAGG
Thaddius is my favorite set of the movement. While he is quite good, I had high expectations and really wanted to like Grobbulus and Kel’Thuzad. The magnetism is used in a very obvious but interesting way, and I’m surprised it hasn’t been more explored before. This one is already the strongest conceptually to me, and he’s one of the better executed. . .In boss mode.
It really feels like you could and should have done more with the grab-game. This character is a giant that can magnetically attract characters to his hand – expectations are high. Dthrow and bthrow are just kept as placeholder generic moves that are made relevant in boss mode only. When you have this guy strangely and uselessly magnetize himself under the stage with uair, I’d think you could come up with more. The two minions would provide him targets to use magnetism on in 1v1 when he only has one foe to interact off of, and while it’s great that they’re added into the boss mode, the playstyle actually demands them more in 1v1 given there’s only one target there. They fight alongside him in the boss, so I really fail to see why you’re so adamant they can’t help him in a “normal” moveset. The minions also should interact with his moveset in some way beyond being just fodder for magnetism. The boss version of the moveset is still great, and I am largely considering it the canonical version. It also seems to be the best balanced amongst them, and I like the way you handled him getting grabbed in it.[/collapse]
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Kel'Thuzad
by FrozenRoy
by FrozenRoy
[collapse="ForwardArrow"]Kel'Thuzad
I feel like this was meant to be the real star of the movement and I was a little unsure of it back when I was previewing it, but on a full reread it comes together surprisingly well for a set that introduces so many things. You've got shield damage, chains, minions, ice that can be placed on the stage, and these elements feel at points disjointed, but the overall playstyle becomes clear by the end and its a fairly exciting playground, where Kel messes with the opponents shield, slows them to his level, and then introduces several exciting stage control elements that continue to grow in uses throughout the set. I particularly like all the fun you had with the dual grab games, every throw manages to be interesting and provide a lot of material to expand his gameplan with, and surprisingly even with all these extra inputs the set never really runs dry of inspiration. There are a few mediocre standards and aerials, but its not really enough to drag the set set down. And my god is it open ended, I'm fairly sure people would always be finding new exciting strategies with him. My main complaints are that at points interactions do start to get illogical(freezing minions to ice? Sensible. Freezing minions to ice causing healing the ice to heal the minion? Uh...) and that I do feel the minion game and the shield game, while the rest of the stuff ends up working together quite nicely, are a little bit too distanced from each other for a truly cohesive playstyle. Still, this is one of your best and the highlight of the movement.[/collapse]
[collapse="MasterWarlord"]CHAINS OF KEL’THUZAD
So starting with characterization immediately, I’m of course immediately very offended by the lack of Death and Decay even on Final Smash. The Frost Armor doesn’t do what it’s supposed to do by slowing people that are protected by it when there are all sorts of random effects thrown around the set. A move not being directly named Frost “Nova” is more acceptable when it really is just the name and it’s named Blast in WoW. Chain Frost really should’ve been in as well considering you have so many things to bounce it off of (And you have him regularly attack his own minions anyway. . .), at least in 3v1.
The chains of Kel’Thuzad seem to have largely devoured the set whole, in more ways than one. They weren’t in Warcraft 3, and in WoW they served as the name of a single mind control based attack. They are described to grapple people, but it seems to all be some obscure lore (After consulting with my friend who actually plays WoW). The Warcraft universe has extensive lore, and with a character as high potential and prolific as this you don’t need to resort to chains from it. The actual use of the chains in WoW, mind control, is instead represented through the abstract means of input banning/soul stealing, which. . .makes duplicates of the foe. I don’t really see how mind control translates to either of those. I’m not saying you need mind control in the set, but if you’re not using it the chains should probably just be ditched entirely.
Beyond this strange reinterpretation of mind control, Kel’Thuzad is seen beating people and grappling with these chains throughout almost the entirety of the moveset. You do have regular attacks on most of the chain inputs, yes, but the vast majority of the time the chain portion of the move is the point. The chains are also handled awkwardly from a gameplay perspective, as while the point of many moves is the chain half, you have to always use the regular move first before you are allowed to use the chain portion of the move. Using the chains like this also gets rid of your overpowered passive damage resistance, so for how difficult it is to use these moves I heavily question their merit. Said damage resistance also seems very out of character – Kel’Thuzad is made to be incredibly tanky in this moveset, with passive damage resistance of up to 7%, constant healing from tethering himself to foes, and a randomly high weight of 7. The Lich has always been an incredibly frail character (Even in WoW, he’s comparatively less durable than other bosses), and picturing him tethering himself to someone is just baffling. If you insist on him using them to grapple the foe, that’s one thing, tethering himself to them is another.
The moveset was generally at its best when playing with minions, but they were heavily downplayed in favor of chains and other things. The Crypt Lords introduced in the boss mode don’t really interact with the moveset in any meaningful way, and also have fairly terrible characterization. They don’t have any of their signature abilities (Which do seem to have carried over into WoW anyway), and most everything you’ve done is made up save for the their first move, involving them flying and creating gusts of wind with their useless wimpy wings. The rest of the boss mode is mostly generic buffs – not inherently bad, but this character didn’t come across as a natural transition to 3v1 anyway outside of the throws that duplicate the foe.
Your love of time bombs throughout the movement culminates here, with them being spammed on inputs regularly, going beyond just the throws this time. Oftentimes there’s no real point to the effect being delayed, it’s just something you feel needs to be regularly applied on moves. Just about any character can benefit from a delayed hitbox to pressure the foe, and after seeing it in your movesets so many times it’s not especially clever anymore, especially seeing it on multiple inputs in the same moveset. I’m not going to lambast you for a single time bomb in a set, but it has definitely grown into a pet peeve over time. This applies to other sets in the movement, most strongly Grobbulus and Rivendare.[/collapse]
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Funky Kong
by ChaosKiwi
by ChaosKiwi
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Kludge
by ChaosKiwi
by ChaosKiwi
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Zant
by dimensionsword64
by dimensionsword64
[collapse="Katapultar"]It's been too long since we had a set, and you just saved the thread from an ongoing drought by keeping your word about the Zant set you said you were going to post. It’s certainly not a bad start, but could use some tweaks, one being that it’s hard to read font that’s completely purple (just making the headers and attack names purple would be alright). And while not glaringly problematic, the numbers can be a bit too high on the Specials, namely spinning for 3 seconds on the Up Special and stunning the foe for one second with the Side Special. The latter isn’t so bad given the move needs to recharge over time however, especially if it has some end lag. I could see Zant getting a few frames advantage over his opponent at the very least, and maybe it would even be rewarding if you hit the opponent up-close.
I like how the moves are nice and easy to understand, not too bogged down in detail, and that you take advantage of the character’s magic potential even after the Specials. I especially like the F-Smash in that it can vary from being a comically bad attack or something devastating if you commit to the charge. I’m a bit mixed on the size-shifting gimmick being used on the other Smashes, though, in that I like the consistency they all have, but at the same time it takes away from the uniqueness initially presented in the F-Smash and makes Zant seem very tanky. I’m also iffy on Zant using his masks for most of his aerials as opposed to spicing things up a bit with his scimitars in a crazy way, which would feel better for the character. Aerials are typically more offensive than ground attacks given you can move around while using them.
There’s a pretty good sense of playstyle here that’s vaguely fitting for Zant, in that he can mix things up by fighting mid-range with his aerial masks or fight up-close with his standards attacks, even knocking enemies away hard by size-shifting. Zant did do just about everything in his boss fight, yes, so it makes sense that you’d want to fit it all into a set, though there might be a bit too much mask and hand reliance and not enough scimitar attacks. Still, I can imagine myself using the Neutral Special to pull enemies in and then charge up a F-Smash to crush enemies up-close, or wall them off via F-tilt and then go through it with the F-Smash and crush them, so it’s a good bit of fun. It is a neat start, for sure.[/collapse]
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Sonic Heroes
by Munomario777
by Munomario777
[collapse="Katapultar"]Sonic Heroes is essentially a moveset for a game. It’s certainly not a bad idea if you actually want to play as Sonic, Tails and Knuckles at the same time, but having all 3 out at once means that you’re not giving them the same attention as a single character due to being treated as a group. All 3 characters are perfectly capable and known to function on their own, unlike the Ice Climbers who are always together, but it’s fine here if you want to represent a game rather than the characters themselves. And it’s certainly not as awkward as the harem sets from MYM14 that involved people making sets where you controlled 8 female characters all at once.
I have a few problems with this set. First, it is very cut-and-dry with its majority of Specials that make you go in x-direction and having to read through 3 similar standard attacks repetitively. Second, even though the set is for Sonic Heroes, the game doesn't feel fully represented with the absence potentially-interesting ideas like Knuckles throwing his allies as fireballs (could be an interesting positioning tactic for when you switch) and Sonic spinning around as a tornado - instead, you have just make them charge in the Specials and give Tails a random Mega Man-esque arm cannon that he never used in the game. For that, it's a bit hard to say that this set totally represents Sonic Heroes. Also, reading and commenting this set make the Sonic Heroes theme song play in my head while I do so, but that's what I get for listening to music.
One more thing about this set is that it lacks detail on stats and moves, which hurts it when it mentions interesting ideas like Tails stacking up and Knuckles' Triangle Glide but fails to follow up on them. At the same time however, the lack of detail does "help" the set by shortening its length given you're essentially reading 3 sets, but that doesn't do anything to help with the set's understanding. I feel this set would be improved substantially if you emphasized on the aforementioned mechanics, stats, moves and perhaps altered the Specials: maybe have Sonic do the tornado with his Side Special and Knuckles throw his teammates as fireballs through the Down Special. Mind you, the Specials as of now wouldn't be -completely- boring to use given Mii Brawler exists, just that they're not compelling and don't represent Sonic Heroes at its best. Add emphasis to the set and polish it up, and you'll have something fine on your hands.[/collapse]
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Aang
by Getocoolaid
by Getocoolaid
[collapse="Katapultar"]I like how each element is specialized (fire = damage, wind = knockback, earth = defense, water = range) in such a way that Aang has a hard time damage-racking but good aerial and KO prowess, fitting his air-bending specialty and mostly-pacifistic nature. I also like his Side Special in how it bounces Aang up into the air after he hits a foe, rather than just let him keep going like I expected when reading the attack.
I find it funny that Aang is aerial-proficient, and wants the foe up in the air with him, yet all but 4 of his aerials are air-bending moves that deal no damage. This essentially means that Aang will accomplish very little in the air outside of general positioning unless he’s bringing a foe up to KO them, and as such he must do his damage-racking on the ground before knocking enemies up. This is easily fixed, mind you, and I don’t even think it’s bad design – on the contrary, I think it’s really interesting, just that it probably wasn’t the way you intended for the set to play. Now, you could use the Side Special and F-air to damage-rack enemies in midair, but hitting with the former might be hard and the latter would be quite predictable especially given its lag. Another thing I noted about the Aerials is that none of them provide Aang with a lot of coverage (no multi-hitting or widespread hitboxes) and thus require a good deal of precision to pull off. The precision might be somewhat in-character from a disciplined point of view, but it does make Aang a bit underpowered in the air when his attacks are easy to get around and not to mention his Mega Man-esque U-air which is awkward enough to use with said character.
Nitpick-wise, I’m not really sure about the idea of earth walls being invulnerable when they’re generally destructible in other sets. Other than character, the Down Special doesn’t seem to serve any noticeable purpose in the set, and while it would probably be okay as a quick defensive move, 10 seconds is too long for a wall to stand up when you mention using it as coverage to charge your Smashes. This, and the U-tilt, are my biggest gripes with the set that don’t have anything to do with damage or knockback, especially the latter that essentially makes you invincible for 2 seconds (and then Aang breaks through the rock by jumping through it despite the foe not being able to damage it).
Aang is held back ever so slightly by a few questionable things, but even so I’d say he’s a respectable yet average set, mostly on the basis that his moves and the way he goes about his goal are a bit ordinary. If he had a tad more to his Specials and perhaps a more convincing air game, he could certainly rise up.[/collapse]
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Korra
by ChaosKiwi
by ChaosKiwi
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Traxex, Drow Ranger
by FrozenRoy
by FrozenRoy
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Imakuni
by Dr. Slavic
by Dr. Slavic
[collapse="Katapultar"]Yes, great character choice! I remember you from MYM14 for your Spider even before you mentioned it, so it’s neat that you’ve come back even now. I apologize for not getting to your set earlier, but now I’m here to give you some critique.
Imakuni is a totally humorous set, which is a big plus for him. That being said, he’s a bit underpowered in terms of damage values, only doing an average of 4-6% on attacks when it would be perfectly okay for him to deal 8-10% on his tilts, along with a F-Smash that deals no knockback. More than that though, his deck mechanic is awkwardly implemented in the set; you take the deck out with the Jab input, which lets you get additional effects for your attacks so long as you don’t lose all your cards, but you lose cards for performing certain attacks and have no way to put the deck away except to wait for 5 seconds without using it. You can refill your deck with booster packs with moves like the N-air (which is kind of random) and D-throw, but you also mention that he can get booster packs at complete random and this holds him up for half a second, something that will likely screw you over in the wrong situation (your attack is interrupted or you’re trying to recover). The problem here is that you rely solely on the Jab as a way to handle the mechanic whereas the Neutral or Down Special inputs would make a lot more sense, but the Specials take a backseat in this set and don't do anything for the mechanic since it would be awkward if they suddenly did something for the mechanic given how late they're introduced (but even so, I actually thought they would do something for the mechanic). It is really a simple case of placing the Specials first on the set and using them as a foundation for the rest of the set, something that if done in your next set will give it a lot more to work with. As the set stands, the Specials are a bit on the bland side even if they are amusing to read - I specifically remember Imakuni having his own Pokemon and trainer cards themed around him, and wonder why you didn't incorporate stuff like his Exploud as a summon for a Special. That would have been hilarious. Speaking of hilarious, I found the D-throw's move name hilarious, probably one of the funniest moves this contest.[/collapse]
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Axton
by JOE!
by JOE!
[collapse="FrozenRoy"]Axton Body Spray
Axton is a set with a pretty neat central concept: He has the ability to set up a turret projectile platform pretty much anywhere, which can last for a certain time, shooting out bullets and giving Axton the ability to be protected against by projectiles. Enemies can take down the turret to force Axton to have it go into cooldown for a long period of time, but Axton can un-deploy it and then re-deploy it later for a reduced cooldown to save it, though this is risky. In addition, Axton has special moves that allow him to have the turret fire off special shots and the like. It is a cool set idea and reminds me of my own Alice Margatroid from MYM12, which I don't know if JOE! ever read.
Right off the bat, I like the Slag Shot ability with the turret, though the Scorched Earth ability is a bit more iffy, not bad but not as good so to speak, though I quite like the Bouncing Betty Grenade itself, and the turret itself is plenty good, though the shield is perhaps iffily strong, but the way it makes people approach and has counters makes it nice. I'd say the weak link here is the Up Special: The effect it has, despite being a rocket launcher, doesn't feel like it measures up as much to the other Specials in its effect and I was disappointed it did not round out the Specials in how it interacts with the turret (IE it doesn't), making it feel out of place: I've heard you're considering putting something that affects the turret there and I heartily approve.
The smashes are also quite nice: I enjoyed Forward Smash the most for its rather unique take on sweetspotting, the precision involved, and how it feeled like it worked well with the rest of the set and the way it controls space. The nuke's hitbox was rather fun and I enjoyed the various ways Axton has to set it off. Once again, the Up input felt the weakest here, as the Flakker Shot was good but not especially noteworthy, though I did enjoy some of the ways you could play off how the shots timed their ending.
I feel the set dropped off dramatically after the smashes and exposed a flaw in the set, which is that while the first seven moves are all good individually, they don't always work together the best: While they do generally play into the playstyle of controlling space, at times it feels a bit esoteric or removed, and things like the nuke's self-damage is a good idea but didn't seem to have much relevance in the set proper. While the standards on had some good moves, I was particularly fond of Down Tilt and Dash Attack, they overall did not feel like they adequately took advantage of the controlling setup provided in the specials and smashes. The grab game felt particularly disappointing and like the area things most could have been improved by: Up Throw also feels like perhaps it should not have been on a throw and while Back Throw has uses, it feels a lot like filler and is presented as such.
Overall, Axton feels like a set with some good ideas at the start, but it stumbles as it goes on and keeps it from being a great set: Regardless, I enjoyed it, and it was good to see another JOE! set. Perhaps you'll give us something else to sink our fangs into?[/collapse]
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Quote/Curly
by lordvaati
by lordvaati
[collapse="Katapultar"]It’s nice to see an old face return after so long. I’ve never played Cave Story, but I am somewhat familiar with the weapon-leveling mechanic because SirKibble made a Quote moveset back in MYM12. Your Quote feels very influenced from a player’s perspective, especially with stuff like the frustrating D-throw spike hazards (dunno whether I like casually using hazards against your enemy), and you even provide pictures at times. That being said, you tend to get very vague on the move descriptions, almost as though you’re assuming that the reader has played Cave Story and can imagine what the moves do in full detail without having to have them be described with more detail. The vagueness is such, though, that even if I knew all about Cave Story I would still find moves like the D-Smash hard to visualize due to lack of details like blast radius, duration, animation and so on. Also, mirrored inputs don’t make for a fun character from a set or gameplay perspective, just because Mega Man’s Jab, F-tilt and N-air are all the same (except for the latter having a keep-away hitbox on his body) which I don’t think was necessarily the best design choice.
There is one thing I really like about this set though, and that’s the fantastic Final Smash. I really love the idea of being able to summon the alternate character you didn’t pick, enough so that I actually wish it was in Smash! If anything, it is slightly overpowered due to how long it lasts for combined with infinite flight and a deadly projectile, but the whole idea behind the reunion has an emotional impact and is wholesomely in-character. It is one of the better Final Smashes I’ve seen in recent.
Quote could use some more detail and emphasis on playstyle, but I won’t ask too much of you since you tend to come in and out of the contest at your own pace.[/collapse]
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Marx
by Reigaheres
by Reigaheres
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Mega Beedrill
by IvanQuote
by IvanQuote
[collapse="n88_2004"]Mega Beedrill's got a decent foundation. You manage to come up with a lot of solid, visually interesting attack animations here. The standards (by which I mean everything but the Specials) all feel very unique to Beedrill. You've really got the character in mind, and that's good. So here are two pieces of advice, one specific to Pokemon movesets and one more general nugget of wisdom.
Think carefully about what to take from a Pokemon's learnset, and how to interpret it into Smash Bros. I think the Specials are kind of a let-down for Beedrill, particularly Poison Sting and Infestation. Take Poison Sting. That's a must-have for Beedrill, but would he really use it in the form of shooting pins at people? It seems fairly intuitive that, regardless of the in-game animation, the move is in Beedrill's learnset to represent a bee sting (or a wasp sting, I suppose, since Beedrill is pretty clearly a wasp and not a bee at all). Your Infestation implementation also feels a little off to me; in the arena of Smash Bros, does it really make sense for Beedrill to be shooting poisonous clouds at people? (This might sound like a harsh criticism, but don't take it that way. Almost everyone in MYM, myself included, has done the same thing at some point or other; back in the day, the phrase "Pokemon Syndrome" even became a shorthand for this kind of problem)
Write a playstyle section! A moveset is more than the sum of its parts, and a little write-up at the end of the moveset about your character's fighting style works wonders. If it helps, next time you write a set (and hopefully there is a next time; I'm interested in seeing where you go from here!) start by writing down a couple quick sentences about how John Doe should fight and keep that goal in mind as you write the set. Then, when you hit the end, just devote a paragraph or two to John Doe's strategy and tactics, or what kind of players might want to give him a shot.[/collapse]
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Wow, really wasn't expecting to have a serious discussion(really I just wanted to show the videos.) but this is cool too, thanks guys. And people offended by the video, yeah maybe its in bad taste but I couldn't help myself from lauging. It's funny cause the dudes on the youtube comments r taking seriously and r mad that he ruins the vid by talking and cussing so much.
Anyway, pokemon has 4 character slots, a few stages, ****loads of nonplayable models(pokeballs, SSE enemies), hell even the subspace emmisarry wants you to "catch em' all" with the trophy stand. And yeah pokemon is a big franchise, but at what point does it just become pokemon stadium(Colosseum/arena)?
Anyway, pokemon has 4 character slots, a few stages, ****loads of nonplayable models(pokeballs, SSE enemies), hell even the subspace emmisarry wants you to "catch em' all" with the trophy stand. And yeah pokemon is a big franchise, but at what point does it just become pokemon stadium(Colosseum/arena)?
The Executive
Smash Lord
Short point: Too many pokemon in Brawl.
pirkid
Smash Lord
Remember SSB64 times? Remember the Pokemon Anime, and how Jigglypuff was really popular from her singing and others appearances?
Well, someone decided to let her live for another 2 installment.
Firebert
Smash Ace
Blasphemy!
tutata
Smash Ace
We can never have enough pokemon. Pokemon is a big time selling game they have to make sure they put the chars out there.
Jellybelly
Smash Ace
In terms of sales pokemon is up there, brawl sold a million in 3 days? diamond and pearl sold 4 million (so lets just say 2 million each.)
Thats the first rule of consumerism, give the people what they want.
The public like pokemon? Give them more pokemon.
And for the record, brawl has 4 reps. Count how many pokemon reps melee had, then consider if brawl has to many pokemon.
Thats the first rule of consumerism, give the people what they want.
The public like pokemon? Give them more pokemon.
And for the record, brawl has 4 reps. Count how many pokemon reps melee had, then consider if brawl has to many pokemon.
Darkslash
Smash Master
Ahh remeber the first time Pokemon came out 151 Pokemon to get. Back then it was alot. Now they have around 450 
And thats not considered a big number 
So I think the Pokemon series is okay. The only problem i have is with Metroid. Its to underreped. Theres only 1 girl 
MAKE DARK SAMUS PLAYABLE PHAZON CANON FTW
And thats not considered a big number So I think the Pokemon series is okay. The only problem i have is with Metroid. Its to underreped. Theres only 1 girl MAKE DARK SAMUS PLAYABLE PHAZON CANON FTWfanagal596
Smash Cadet
but they're so gosh darn cute
iankobe
Smash Lord
Seriously right? I love how Muk looks.
Sexy.
But back to the point. Nintendo's full of Pokemon anyway. Who cares? Most of us love Pokemon.