Q&A Tips & Answers from a Passing Ninja - Greninja Q&A Thread

[Blaziking17]

What are some basic strategies against a ? I recently was outplayed by a DK, and kept getting KO'd by a D-Smash.

I'm not too experienced in facing human DK's, so looking for a variety of answers to consider working on in the lab.

 

[Makani]

What are some basic strategies against a ? I recently was outplayed by a DK, and kept getting KO'd by a D-Smash.

I'm not too experienced in facing human DK's, so looking for a variety of answers to consider working on in the lab.

DK is combo-food, with Greninja's fast mobility and relatively low lag options you can rush him down pretty well. Getting him into the air will give you a few options to just juggle over and over without him being able to do much about it, though after a while you'll get caught into a rhythm and he'll break free so it's key to mix up how you juggle him. I'd suggest hitting UAir about twice then just empty hop to see what he'll do, chances are he'll try to relieve pressure with a DAir, in which case he'll suffer from decent landing lag where you can just grab and UThrow again, dash attack to FAir/NAir/UAir, Shadow Sneaking to punish his landing, and even just angling a Hydro Pump upwards at him to throw off his trajectory and prolong his air time.

 

[phili]

What are some basic strategies against a ? I recently was outplayed by a DK, and kept getting KO'd by a D-Smash.

I'm not too experienced in facing human DK's, so looking for a variety of answers to consider working on in the lab.

DK is one of my secondaries and I can tell you that what @ Makani said is good advice. DK is very vulnerable when you are below him in the air as he has no good landing options (without custom moves).

As for getting down smashed, DK's will often use down smash out of shield to punish opponents who hit their shield with unsafe attacks. Be careful when you are at kill percent to not hit DK's shield with any moves that aren't safe on shield.

I'd also suggest playing patient and spacing a lot with water shuriken as DK doesn't have any projectiles to answer back and this should force him to approach you.

 

[Dark Dire Wolf]

I need some more Rosalina matchup help. I was told to force her to approach with water shuriken. That didn't work too well as she just used her down B and it a was stallfest. Any other ways to make her approach?

Also, is it better to have the c-stick set to tilt rather than smash attack to preserve aerial momentum?

 

[Lavani]

Late reply to the "what do I do against aerial approaches I can't beat OoS" question, but utilt is a really good anti-air move. Unlike usmash, it has less end lag so you can punish airdodges after/are less punishable on whiff, and Greninja crouches low instead of extending his arms (and by extension his hurtbox) upward (his tongue is disjointed). And of course you get a guaranteed aerial off it on hit too.

I need some more Rosalina matchup help. I was told to force her to approach with water shuriken. That didn't work too well as she just used her down B and it a was stallfest. Any other ways to make her approach?

Also, is it better to have the c-stick set to tilt rather than smash attack to preserve aerial momentum?

If she doesn't have the lead, there isn't really any issue with her abusing GP because it does nothing to threaten you back, just play patient. If you need to get in on her, feint an approach to bait a reaction out of her and punish that. GP is also punishable if she throws it out at mid-range, something to keep in mind against GP-happy Rosas.

I only have 3DS, but I would favor tilt stick both for retreating fairs and perfect pivot utilt/dtilt.

 

[mimgrim]

Also, is it better to have the c-stick set to tilt rather than smash attack to preserve aerial momentum?

You can still keep aerial momentum with C-Stick set to Smash as long as you are able to flick it quickly. If you are able to do that it is up to personal preference, if not then have it set to attack.

I've been considering switching back to C-Stcik = attack recently, I originally had it that way because I started out having to play on the Fight Pad that connects to a Wiimote which had nothing on the C-Stick of a GCC which made flicking it hard, but shortly after I got the adapter and was able to play with a really GCC I shortly switched back to Smash because it is much easier to flick. However now with the inclusion of Attack + Special = Smash I'm thinking of switching the C-Stick back to attack just to have all me bases covered with ease.

 

[Makani]

Also, is it better to have the c-stick set to tilt rather than smash attack to preserve aerial momentum?

I myself have it set to Smash because I rarely use tilts with Greninja, even though I want to use tilts frequently I just find myself not being in range (safely) for UTilt most of the time. I can't reliably Perfect Pivot either, therefore Smash-Stick.
If you can be within range to hit UTilt I would definitely recommend Tilt-Stick since you have better options after a UTilt than USmash.

 

[FullMoon]

I leave my C-Stick set to attack for easier retreating F-Airs and for sliding D-Tilts that combo into Up-Smash a lot easier.

 

[Lawliet626]

I just noticed how i could dash grab G&W as he was stuck in his multi jab, is this something that i could consider reliable against him when stuck in multi jab? if so, are they any other characters you guys think it would be possible to dash grab them as they are stuck in multi jab???

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

I just noticed how i could dash grab G&W as he was stuck in his multi jab, is this something that i could consider reliable against him when stuck in multi jab? if so, are they any other characters you guys think it would be possible to dash grab them as they are stuck in multi jab???

Our grab is the 2nd longest non-tether grab, right behind villager. So, presumably, we could grab characters with small rapid jab ranges. I can't really think of anything off the top of my head.

 

[phili]

I just noticed how i could dash grab G&W as he was stuck in his multi jab, is this something that i could consider reliable against him when stuck in multi jab? if so, are they any other characters you guys think it would be possible to dash grab them as they are stuck in multi jab???

Nothing to do with jabs, but we can also grab wario while he is performing his command grab, while most characters can't do this

 

[Greninja'd]

This isn't really a question related to Greninja, how do I read an opponent? Most of the time I'm just throwing stuff out hoping to get something out of them. It just seems really hard for me to try to see an opening in the opponent.

 

[Makani]

This isn't really a question related to Greninja, how do I read an opponent? Most of the time I'm just throwing stuff out hoping to get something out of them. It just seems really hard for me to try to see an opening in the opponent.

I don't think anyone really "reads" people so much as just limiting their options and forcing them to do something that'll benefit you. Though at times I guess there can be a few rare lucky reads but that's usually either from extreme luck or having played that one person multiple times.

 

[LumpyGravy]

Greninja doesn't rely as heavily on hard reads as someone like a heavy character would. It's more about punishing over-extensions and bad decisions and snowballing your momentum off of said punish until it resets to neutral.

 

[David Galanos]

Please don't tell me to git gud or assume I'm bad or anything like that, but, I have been having a bit trouble with a strategy.

A lot of players are scared to approach, which is understandable, but they will sit in shield and wait for me to come to them. Of course I will come to them because I get impatient, and they will then spot dodge or roll away and punish the end lag on Greninjas dash grab. (Keep in mind Im not running from across the stage I am relatively close-ish).

Now knowing I can't run in and grab, or approach at all I wait back for him, because there is literally nothing I can do except try to bait a spot dodge or roll but it didn't work out After he caught on. Even when I did do this he would only spot dodge and then throw out a move before I could grab him, and it worked most of the time sadly.

I forgot to mention it is Fox, so If I wait, he will force an approach with laser, and I can't hit on his shield with shuriken because he'll reflect it.

This is the first time I have encountered something where I had no idea what to do at all. The worst part was that, yeah props to him for the strategy, I guess, but he was not that great a player otherwise, so it was a bit frustrating to lose to this even when I won it was still frustrating. Does anyone have any advice at all? I have seen this before, where people sit in shield and wait, but usually I have another option, in this case, I have no idea

Please help me out.

 

[mimgrim]

When he spams Shield like that stay close to him, but not too close, like right in the range where you can punish laser but outside of his other attacks' range. Not doing anything to a shield can be just as effective as doing something to it. Just be patience and wait for him to over extend from his shield (as he'll have to eventually).

Patience is one of the most important keys to Greninja, so you really need to work on that if you get impatient.

 

[David Galanos]

When he spams Shield like that stay close to him, but not too close, like right in the range where you can punish laser but outside of his other attacks' range. Not doing anything to a shield can be just as effective as doing something to it. Just be patience and wait for him to over extend from his shield (as he'll have to eventually).

Patience is one of the most important keys to Greninja, so you really need to work on that if you get impatient.

Good idea, I do remember punishing laser a few times. I will remember that next time someone does that. It's really annoying though, I hate that strategies like that are able to cause me trouble in the first place :/.

Sometimes with people who shield a lot in general and aren't waiting for me can give me trouble, because I'll whiff the grab. Happens a lot at high percents and I whiff a grab and get f smashed by sonic or something, "HA!", so annoying lol. But it is my fault for that. It's tempting though because usually when I go for a dash grab when we are both at death percent I can get the up throw kill.

 

[Funkermonster]

How do you reliably perform the Uair spike? At what percentages? I heard how to do it somewhere, but I forgot again.

 

[David Galanos]

How do you reliably perform the Uair spike? At what percentages? I heard how to do it somewhere, but I forgot again.

Well if you want to know how to do it, you just need to do a falling up air at the peak of his jump or right when you fast fall. Just kinda takes messing around in training mode and some practice.

But if you want set ups for it, up tilt -> up air spike is one that you can repeat. Percents vary for characters but it's generally 25-50 for when you can start it, something like that. They can air dodge sometimes thoug

Another one is Dair spike to up air spike to down smash or another smash attack, which is usually just around 100-160 or something

You can also get an up air spike from reading a jump from the ledge, or punishing air dodge, stuff like that.

 

[Dark Dire Wolf]

So I've tested out setting c-stick to attack and compared the retreating fair and the like. With c-stick on smash, maybe half the time I can cover about the same ground distance as the "tilt-stick" setup when retreating Fairing (probably because only half the time I'm flicking the c-stick fast enough). On average, I feel there is a bit more distance with the tilt-stick setup when retreating Fairing and its smoother movement as a whole. Am I seeing things or have other experienced this?

Also, with the tilt-stick setup, dashing up-smash is gone, worth the loss for the aerial benefits?

 

[momochuu]

So I've tested out setting c-stick to attack and compared the retreating fair and the like. With c-stick on smash, maybe half the time I can cover about the same ground distance as the "tilt-stick" setup when retreating Fairing (probably because only half the time I'm flicking the c-stick fast enough). On average, I feel there is a bit more distance with the tilt-stick setup when retreating Fairing and its smoother movement as a whole. Am I seeing things or have other experienced this?

Also, with the tilt-stick setup, dashing up-smash is gone, worth the loss for the aerial benefits?

you can still running up smash with A+B smash or do what i do, run and press jump and A at the same time.

 

[Dark Dire Wolf]

I tried the jump and A at the same time, it didn't work. Any special setting or is it just very difficult?

 

[momochuu]

do you use a button to jump or do you use the stick? i do button jump + A.

 

[Dark Dire Wolf]

X button to jump, might try putting jump on the L-shoulder button to see if that works better with A. I'll give it a go again in a bit, but there's no other special controller setting, correct?

 

[Snackss]

What do you do when people keep double jumping away from you? Greninja has some good setups out of baiting airdodges, but I don't feel like he's that great at chasing people in the air.

 

[David Galanos]

What do you do when people keep double jumping away from you? Greninja has some good setups out of baiting airdodges, but I don't feel like he's that great at chasing people in the air.

I may be misunderstanding but, one thing that catches peoples jumps is f throw and usually they jump away and you can fair them

 

[LumpyGravy]

What do you do when people keep double jumping away from you? Greninja has some good setups out of baiting airdodges, but I don't feel like he's that great at chasing people in the air.

You don't really need to "chase" them per se. Stay on the ground, follow their movement, and either punish their landing or wait for a commitment in the air from which you can easily trap them. Dash grab and dash attack are good tools for catching landings and empty hops are good for inducing panic air dodges. On stages without convenient platforms to retreat to this situation can reasonably be converted into an up smash. Alternatively, you can keep them airborne with hydro pump to put them into or force them to put themselves into a more disadvantageous position from which you can either pursue with aerials or set up landing traps.

X button to jump, might try putting jump on the L-shoulder button to see if that works better with A. I'll give it a go again in a bit, but there's no other special controller setting, correct?

Having A+B set to smash is a controls customization option that can be toggled on and off and can be found alongside tap jump and rumble on the controls customization screen.

 

[Gunla]

You don't really need to "chase" them per se. Stay on the ground, follow their movement, and either punish their landing or wait for a commitment in the air from which you can easily trap them. Dash grab and dash attack are good tools for catching landings and empty hops are good for inducing panic air dodges. On stages without convenient platforms to retreat to this situation can reasonably be converted into an up smash. Alternatively, you can keep them airborne with hydro pump to put them into or force them to put themselves into a more disadvantageous position from which you can either pursue with aerials or set up landing traps.


Having A+B set to smash is a controls customization option that can be toggled on and off and can be found alongside tap jump and rumble on the controls customization screen.

Instead of double posting, please use the edit function when adding onto the latest post if it's yours.

 

[Snackss]

Does anyone know anything about when Hydro Pump registers your inputs for movement? I always get a diagonal, and sometimes it feels like the stick position and other times it feels like I just wasn't fast enough.

 

[YouReadMyName]

Hi I'm new to Greninja and love his fast paced game. I don't know his neutral or approach game at all though. Any tips? Ideas?

 

[mimgrim]

Hi I'm new to Greninja and love his fast paced game. I don't know his neutral or approach game at all though. Any tips? Ideas?

http://smashboards.com/threads/tips...eninja-q-a-thread.368763/page-6#post-18936683


Honestly. Can we get this put into the first post please? Since it is the most frequently asked question on Greninja and also the biggest misconception to him. :L

 

[Dark Dire Wolf]

Any tips on Luigi and the very fast movement characters?

Luigi just gives me trouble, I get combo'd hard. I'm working on my bait and punish game, but I'm far from there, especially against characters with good projectiles.

Then there's Sheik and somewhat Cpt. Falcon and Little Mac. I just struggle with characters faster than Greninja on their feet. I'm working incorporating SH Fair, reverse and approaching. It's just that their so fast their out of the way even if they thrown out a missed attack, especially Sheik.

 

[YouReadMyName]

Any tips on Luigi and the very fast movement characters?

Luigi just gives me trouble, I get combo'd hard. I'm working on my bait and punish game, but I'm far from there, especially against characters with good projectiles.

Then there's Sheik and somewhat Cpt. Falcon and Little Mac. I just struggle with characters faster than Greninja on their feet. I'm working incorporating SH Fair, reverse and approaching. It's just that their so fast their out of the way even if they thrown out a missed attack, especially Sheik.

I think WS clanks with fireball so,just keep spamming until the Luigi finally comes in for a grab/attack then read or bait the approach accordingly to gain momentum and destroy the annoying down throw fair fair son of a gun.

 

[free33]

hi all greninja-mains! can greninja's shadow-sneak ledge cancel? idk its just something i thought might work as a way to close a lot of distance without lag or something. maybe follow up @ low percents. idk. also, can grenina still Uair spike? i know tons of advanced techniques for him got taken out, so im not sure. i've tried it on my borther and i can't seem to get it, but maybe its just the timing. thanks!

 

[Snackss]

What's with the Luigi matchup? You just throw fully charged shuriken and there's nothing he can do?
I tried to zone with shurikens and green fireballs make a joke out of it, so I just started spamming charged shurikens and he gave up before we finished.

 

[Lawliet626]

is there a list around here telling me what are greninjas good and bad stages, and his advantages/disadvantages in each and every one???

 

[mimgrim]

We don't have a list yet but we do have a stage discussion thread.

http://smashboards.com/threads/greninja-stage-discussion-thread.389804/

 

[David Galanos]

is there a list around here telling me what a greninjas good and bad stages, and his advantages/disadvantages in each and everyone???

http://smashboards.com/threads/greninja-stage-discussion-thread.389804/ Here is a stage discussion thread

Greninja really can do any stage, you just have to be mindful of what character your versing. And there are things to know like that he can't always get an up smash on an opponent above him on a platform, stuff like that.

 

[Snackss]

I don't like Halberd, the edges really hurt shuriken spacing and the platform negates up smash for a large portion of the stage.

 

[Lawliet626]

halberd is great! Low ceilings, stage hazards that can set up substitute, lasers that can help with keeping distance and edge guarding, and best of all, shrunken can go through lasers.