mimgrim
Smash Hero
Shadow Sneak is mostly a move used for traps, mainly trapping landings, and sometimes used for edge guarding.
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Q&A Tips & Answers from a Passing Ninja - Greninja Q&A Thread
- Thread starter Gunla
- Start date
LiL.Will
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2008
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- Oklahoma City,Oklahoma
- NNID
- ZOMGitzWill
- 3DS FC
- 2208-5740-6357
mimgrim
Smash Hero
The only 2 I really know of are AMSA and Lea (or w/e his name is, and that is just second hand info) but I don't really keep up with that kind of thing because I'm not really able to watch videos reliably because of satellite internet johns so I don't really know who to watch besides AMSA.
Baby_Sneak
Smash Champion
Aiko. He's on sax monthlies on VGbootcamp
LiL.Will
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2008
- Messages
- 321
- Location
- Oklahoma City,Oklahoma
- NNID
- ZOMGitzWill
- 3DS FC
- 2208-5740-6357
Ah ok its all good Lea is another Japanese player right? I think I remember watching his/her Greninja on SHI-G's channel.
Zapp Branniglenn
Smash Lord
Are you guys sure Greninja's Dash grab is only two active frames? I cannot escape that move to save my life. As a Bowser main, I don't have anything OoS that will reach Greninja after his shuriken. Any tips for breaking the constant shuriken > Dash grab neutral game, or is learning to perfect shield my only option to have a chance at punishing? The only thing I can do is advance with Fire breath, which will beat the shurikens and deal minor damage to him before he dodge rolls back to continue with more shurikens.
Baby_Sneak
Smash Champion
Shurikens are super weak to shields uncharged and Charged shurikens makes us too vulnerable. Shielding is a powerful option against us. Up-b OOS is a strong option too
Zapp Branniglenn
Smash Lord
I wouldn't agree with the charged version. That one passes clean through shields as a multihit box and can't be stopped with fire breath. That move will lock somebody into their shield and allow for a grab followup very consistently, no?
Makani
Smash Apprentice
Maybe if it were pre-Wii U nerf.
bc1910
Smash Lord
Shuriken > dashgrab neutral hasn't been effective since the 1.04 patch. You don't even have to powershield the shuriken, you have a million options to avoid the dashgrab. Roll in either direction, jump out of shield, hell just drop shield and jab. As Bowser you could also up B out of shield.
Charged Shuriken doesn't guarantee a grab. Far from it. Once again you have loads of time to get out of the way before Greninja can grab.
FullMoon
i'm just joking with you
That's where mindgames come in though. If you predict the opponent rolling back, then you can just tech chase and grab him anyway, and if you position yourself right, you can hit with Shadow Sneak no matter where they roll or if they spotdodge. If they try jumping you could catch them with Up-Smash.
Greninja is a mindgame character and having an opponent shielding a charged water shuriken might not give him an easy follow up, but there are still ways for you to catch people's attempts to get away, especially since most of them will be expecting you to go for a grab.
I know I've hit and/or killed people with Shadow Sneak more times than I can count after they failed to predict a grab and rolled or spotdodged right into my attack.
bc1910
Smash Lord
I know all the mixups, I know all the mindgames. And guaranteed stuff is far better than mindgames. My point was that Greninja used to be able to guarantee his dashgrabs in far more situations than he can now, hence there really shouldn't be an issue with "constant shuriken > dashgrab neutral" for any character.
Regardless, the patch approaches. Let's hope Greninja gets the changes he deserves!
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Jonarobin
Smash Apprentice
So what are good combos/grab followups etc for Greninja? Or just some general tips?
I tend to use uncharged WS to grab to up air a lot but people air dodge a lot and I'm too speedy, I mostly play For Glory too, so it can be laggy... Generally not too bad though, I also tend to use a lot of FAirs, they're so satisfying to pull off and I think it might be good for pressure, I've been using more FAirs ever since I saw a Greninja game of AMSa's.
https://vine.co/v/Ox7jpdUxPrH
I also found this vine, is this legit? This combo is so epic, looks hard to pull off though.
The only reason I question it is because its on a cpu and it looks like you could roll away but not sure if that counts for footstooling.
I also think I'm not using shadow sneak well enough... I've seen so many cool mid air shadow sneak cools but I'm not too familiar with shadow sneak myself and I think I have a hard time visualizing where greninja will be in midair, pretty okay at aiming on the ground though.
I main Ness, Greninja, Robin, and Mario, so my playtime is a bit spread out between them.
Greninja has a lot of potential and I wanna get better with him
I tend to use uncharged WS to grab to up air a lot but people air dodge a lot and I'm too speedy, I mostly play For Glory too, so it can be laggy... Generally not too bad though, I also tend to use a lot of FAirs, they're so satisfying to pull off and I think it might be good for pressure, I've been using more FAirs ever since I saw a Greninja game of AMSa's.
https://vine.co/v/Ox7jpdUxPrH
I also found this vine, is this legit? This combo is so epic, looks hard to pull off though.
The only reason I question it is because its on a cpu and it looks like you could roll away but not sure if that counts for footstooling.
I also think I'm not using shadow sneak well enough... I've seen so many cool mid air shadow sneak cools but I'm not too familiar with shadow sneak myself and I think I have a hard time visualizing where greninja will be in midair, pretty okay at aiming on the ground though.
I main Ness, Greninja, Robin, and Mario, so my playtime is a bit spread out between them.
Greninja has a lot of potential and I wanna get better with him
ephOE
Smash Apprentice
Greninja has quite a lot of follow ups scattered across lots of%. There are actually other threads on this board about them, so I suggest checking those out.
That combo is legit, also ZeRo made a video of a simple combo on D3 another Japanese player found. It's easy to find on youtube, I recommend practicing it.
For the most part, Up Throw follow ups are determined by how your opponent reacts. If they air dodge right away, you can get Utilt > Up Smash, or if they jump you might catch them with a Uair, etc.
Other than that, Greninja mirror matches are a quick and dirty way to learn the character.
Does Greninja have trouble against projectiles? I always do poorly against either Link. Greninja is really mobile but Link forces you to walk more often than I would prefer. Is it best to just power shield and dash grab against projectiles? Asking in general, not just the Link matchup.
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mimgrim
Smash Hero
You want to be walking most of the time anyways. Running limits your options more and should be saved as a retreat tactic and the like.
What are the opinions on Greninja's KO abilities? I have a lot of trouble since dash attack doesn't combo into forward air most of the time, down tilt can be pretty hard to land, neutral air is risky especially given the hitbox barely extends beyond Greninja's body.
Poppy JR.
Smash Apprentice
I'm not quite sure if this has been asked already, but does anyone have any tips for landing the up air/fast fall spike, so that your opponent slams back into the ground? I've been practicing, but I can't seem to get it right. I've seen people combo (string?) with this into a dsmash, which looks amazingly useful. Thanks!
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Ludiloco
Smash Journeyman
I find it works very well out of up throw, if the opponent dodges your first up air or you wait their dodge out. When you both reach the apex of your jumps and start to descend, throw the up air out and fast fall it. They'll drop to the ground with you and have a chance to tech, and if they miss the tech d-smash will connect for major knockback.
Poppy JR.
Smash Apprentice
That sounds perfect! Do you have any tips on set-ups for this combo at higher percents, when the throw tosses them higher than your jump could reach? Or is that even viable?
I'd like to experiment with the spike off-stage. I have an idea of a punish for lower percents when they don't go low enough to kill. When you land the up-air and free fall, is it possible to stop their recovery with an immediate down-air? That way you at least rack up more damage, and you can use the resulting bounce to recover,
I'd have to test this, though. Has anybody already tried this?
Ludiloco
Smash Journeyman
You just have to get up on your opponent's level and bait an air dodge, it's really the best way to get it to work. It can work at higher % though.
And I really wouldn't recommend trying it offstage, especially with dair. Dair offstage is an absolute death sentence and I'd really just avoid trying it.
And I really wouldn't recommend trying it offstage, especially with dair. Dair offstage is an absolute death sentence and I'd really just avoid trying it.
Poppy JR.
Smash Apprentice
Alrighty. I tend to avoid using it anyway, but that makes sense considering how much fast-falling the uair cripples your recovery ability. I can still take some consolation knowing that dair works out of uair-spike perfectly on-stage. Thanks for the help!
hello all you greninja-ers! i am new to greninja and i am trying to have him as a tertiary (lol i just feel like i need to be good at more than 2 characters) and he fits my style of gimping, rushdown, and a great projectile THAT CANT BE ABSORBED BY NESS (sorry my best friend plays ness and i have a hard time approaching him with zsuit due to usually using the stun gun.) anyway, i just came across a video on youtube of greninja's up-b straight up KOing. check it out. does the windbox have knockback scaling? does anyone have the real mechanics of this move? my goal with greninja is to become a gimping master with that move, so learning its ins and outs would be great. Here is the video. go to about 15:45 and see what happens. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7SzDYhf18c
If the link doesn't work, the video is called "super smash bros 4 (wii u/3ds)- the power of greninja" and it is by Pksparkxx Dathottness
If the link doesn't work, the video is called "super smash bros 4 (wii u/3ds)- the power of greninja" and it is by Pksparkxx Dathottness
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Does anyone have trouble with Charizard? I find this matchup obscenely hard and the matchup thread doesn't have anything good. Jab isn't punishable as far as I can tell, huge grab range, can't punish neutral air. Spacing needs to be incredibly good and because Charizard has extra jumps and two moves with super armor, setups/ mixups for most characters don't work.
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Poppy JR.
Smash Apprentice
I would try poking with the shurikens and jab combos. Keep your distance until he uses a laggy move like his boulder, then punish with whatever works.
Remember to shield a flare blitz! He'll bounce off, then you can launch him easily with side smash.
You can also try gimping his recovery with hydro pump, or an offstage shadow sneak.
FullMoon
i'm just joking with you
Charizard is probably one of Greninja's easiest MUs. Once you throw him in the air there's pretty much nothing he can do to escape your juggling. Bait his Rock Smash and punish him for it and if you're high enough in the air when he uses Rock Smash to stop Up-Air juggles, just fast fall and you should be out of range and in the perfect position to Up-Smash him or just keep juggling.
Poke Charizard with shurikens until he rushes you down and then explot his laggy attacks to get a grab and start juggling him. Zard's recovery is also very vulnerable to Hydro Pump.
I've fought loads of Charizards before and every time I did it didn't feel hard to win and the times I lost were because I was really outplayed more than anything else.
Poke Charizard with shurikens until he rushes you down and then explot his laggy attacks to get a grab and start juggling him. Zard's recovery is also very vulnerable to Hydro Pump.
I've fought loads of Charizards before and every time I did it didn't feel hard to win and the times I lost were because I was really outplayed more than anything else.
D
Deleted member
Guest
I've decided to pick up Greninja after initially being put-off by him because of how slippery/weird(?) he plays, despite all of my intentions being to main him. I've gotten the hang of SHFF Nair/Fair, OoS SS, Falling Uair, and quite a few combos/kill setups. However, my Greninja is still not anywhere close to the level of my Falcon or Shulk, and its because of how I play the neutral with Greninja. I try to approach with him despite his bad options and if I try to bait with WS then I overextend. So my question is, how should I play the neutral with Greninja? I see aMSa using retreating Fairs on shield since its so safe, but any other tips besides using his combo starters like Dtilt, Dash attack, Utilt, Nair, and Fair?
mimgrim
Smash Hero
http://smashboards.com/threads/tips...eninja-q-a-thread.368763/page-6#post-18936683
^That should give you a good idea of how to play the neutral game with Greninja.
^That should give you a good idea of how to play the neutral game with Greninja.
bc1910
Smash Lord
It's all in his movement. You need to be constantly moving, retreating to throw shurikens and being ready to punish any over-extension by the opponent. Good opponents will not over-extend nearly as often as bad players, which is why shurikens and retreatning Fair are so important, they're reasonably safe moves that can be used to exert pressure on the opponent. Oh, and Greninja has one of the best dash grabs in the game. It's pretty easy to hit someone with it.
DON'T get locked into your shield too often. This is perhaps one of the most important things to learn when playing Greninja and it's weird because shielding is strong with most characters in Sm4sh, but Greninja is the exception. Your out of shield (OoS) options are terrible. You need to avoid attacks altogether and punish with a combo starter rather than try to punish someone for hitting your shield. Sometimes, you will have to shield of course, but it shouldn't be something you rely on too heavily.
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Dark Dire Wolf
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2010
- Messages
- 419
I did some FG today, and got wrecked. I've gotten better, but I regressed today.
My biggest problem was approaching. I do better using Greninja as a counterpuncher as the tilts are hard to do on the move and his smashes are lagtastic. But when I'm forced to attack I'm a fish out of water. A Pauletena beat me. Rosalina was even worse, I couldn't deal with Luma and Rosalina together. How do you approach these two, or force the action safely as a whole?
My biggest problem was approaching. I do better using Greninja as a counterpuncher as the tilts are hard to do on the move and his smashes are lagtastic. But when I'm forced to attack I'm a fish out of water. A Pauletena beat me. Rosalina was even worse, I couldn't deal with Luma and Rosalina together. How do you approach these two, or force the action safely as a whole?
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Ludiloco
Smash Journeyman
Answer: You don't.
You wait for Rosalina to come to you, punish her actions, and kill off Luma. Once Luma is gone, go ham on Rosalina.
If she just sits there waiting for your approach, poke Luma with shurikens. You can get them off faster than she can gravity pull, so you will get them in every now and then. You will eventually win the battle of attrition and then can proceed to go ham. Well spaced bairs and fairs are pretty safe on her shield and will smack Luma away, and if you feel like playing aggro a well placed dash attack will knock Luma away, which is sometimes worth being punished.
You wait for Rosalina to come to you, punish her actions, and kill off Luma. Once Luma is gone, go ham on Rosalina.
If she just sits there waiting for your approach, poke Luma with shurikens. You can get them off faster than she can gravity pull, so you will get them in every now and then. You will eventually win the battle of attrition and then can proceed to go ham. Well spaced bairs and fairs are pretty safe on her shield and will smack Luma away, and if you feel like playing aggro a well placed dash attack will knock Luma away, which is sometimes worth being punished.
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Funkermonster
The Clown
Considering how weak our OoS game is with a grab around 14 frames of startup, what can I do against a 
, , or who likes to use Dair a lot?
, , or who likes to use Dair a lot?
Baby_Sneak
Smash Champion
avoid it or if you can, connect a sweetspotted Upsmash under them. substitute can work as well.Considering how weak our OoS game is with a grab around 14 frames of startup, what can I do against a
Ludiloco
Smash Journeyman
Don't shield