Social "Time to Tip the Scales!" - Robin Social Thread

[JaidynReiman]

Thing is, he got a lot of those characters right. How can one argue against this to begin with? The E3 reveals, although not happened at its time; may have changed. Companies and employees always change plans for showcasing things.

The only way for this to be false is if his tipster was either:

A) Part of working to reveal a newcomer on the show room floor and saw Wiifittrainer months in advance

B) Pure coincidence

Not being a negative nancy here.

Its possible he saw the trailers in advance and made up the rest. That's literally the only hope for Robin at this point. But I kinda doubt it (although I think its possible we might get Lucina instead of Chrom because Lucina was shown off in the NFC promo while Chrom wasn't). I'd rather have Robin but it doesn't look too likely right now. The other possibilities I have, K. Rool, Isaac, and an Advance Wars rep really have nothing going against them, but Robin has to compete with other Awakening characters. Kinda disappointing, I think Robin would've represented Fire Emblem as a whole way better than Chrom/Lucina. But we'll see how things play out.

 

[Graydient]

I don't care too much about Robin from a gameplay standpoint anymore. Palutena will have 12 highly variable special moves, many of which will fulfill the play style I wanted. Villager as well is an immensely technical fighter with some nice terrain control abilities.

Of course I still like Robin as a character, but that is not why I started supporting her inclusion. It's not because I like Robin, or because she is way better of an option than Chrom, or that she can be any gender she wishes. That's all superficial.

I supported Robin because I liked her gameplay prospects, especially compared to other Fire Emblem characters.

If Robin appears with functionality that surprises me, and fulfills my needs better than Villager or Palutena, or the Samus and Link that I can't yet give an opinion on, that's great. If not, that's fine.

Still a matter of whether or not I'll be buying this game. The hitstun is atrocious in the build shown, and I hope that will see revision. If she shows up and the game sucks then I won't be buying anyways, but I'll wait until release before I make any calls on that.

Edit - Not to mention that Fire Emblem has already gotten more fanservice than I could have ever asked for.

Seeing Mii Fighters, Palutena, and Pac-Man all getting revealed today, I must say I'm very skeptical about Robin's chances now. But either way, I'm starting not to care: the game's quality itself is becoming rather questionable.

The hype train was fun while it lasted.

 

[Weeman]

Seeing Mii Fighters, Palutena, and Pac-Man all getting revealed today, I must say I'm very skeptical about Robin's chances now. But either way, I'm starting not to care: the game's quality itself is becoming rather questionable.

The hype train was fun while it lasted.

The game's quality? are you sure you don't mean "the game mechanics not being competitive enough"?
Because as far as quality goes, the presentation, the graphics, the soundtrack and the game's attention to detail is fantastic so far.

 

[Pacack]

The game's quality? are you sure you don't mean "the game mechanics not being competitive enough"?
Because as far as quality goes, the presentation, the graphics, the soundtrack and the game's attention to detail is fantastic so far.

And even competitively, this game is looking to be far better than Brawl ever was. The competitive community here's going to play it regardless of how Melee-esque it is (or is not).

 

[False Sense]

I'll admit, I'm not a competitive player. I just play the game because it's fun and I love it. And I think the game looks amazing so far, and I didn't see anything at E3 that made me question that.

 

[Graydient]

The game's quality? are you sure you don't mean "the game mechanics not being competitive enough"?
Because as far as quality goes, the presentation, the graphics, the soundtrack and the game's attention to detail is fantastic so far.

Yea sorry, that's what I meant. I love everything else about it.

I'll still get it/play it because it's new. But after a month, the novelty will wear off.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Yeah Robin is not looking so good now, as expected.

 

[Pacack]

I'll admit, I'm not a competitive player. I just play the game because it's fun and I love it. And I think the game looks amazing so far, and I didn't see anything at E3 that made me question that.

Being semi-competitive (I like watching matches of Smash and I know all the basic techniques, but am not competitive-level good yet), I can say that the gameplay actually excites me a lot. It's sort of like Project M without the directional air-dodge, and I think that's a very reasonable balance.

 

[JaidynReiman]

I liked directional air dodging, but it wasn't a major factor for me.

 

[Pacack]

I liked directional air dodging, but it wasn't a major factor for me.

Well, it's what made wavedashing and L-canceling a thing, and that's a part of competitive Smash that a lot of players prefer having. (It's why some people are calling this "the next Brawl". It doesn't seem to have Melee mechanics. However, I think that's unfair since it seems this has its own mechanics rather than Brawl's.)

 

[Pega-pony Princess]

Even with all the negativity going around, I still think Robin has a chance. I'm not giving up until we have definite proof that she's not playable.

 

[False Sense]

Even with all the negativity going around, I still think Robin has a chance. I'm not giving up until we have definite proof that she's not playable.

Uh... Well, there's a Rhythm Heaven enemy in Smash Run. While not absolute proof, that would strongly suggest the presence of a Rhythm Heaven character.

So, the leak is looking kind of real now...

 

[Pega-pony Princess]

Uh... Well, there's a Rhythm Heaven enemy in Smash Run. While not absolute proof, that would strongly suggest the presence of a Rhythm Heaven character.

So, the leak is looking kind of real now...

I realize that. More than likely the leak is legit, but it doesn't change how I feel.

 

[Delzethin]

Even though the Gematsu leak is looking increasingly true...I don't think it rules Robin out yet.

The leaker said all of those characters--including Chrom--were newcomers...but he did not say that they were all of the newcomers. And while it's...admittedly unlikely for Fire Emblem to get 4 characters in, Awakening was a massive critical and commercial success (which the devs would've seen signs of when they were working on the roster, since it came out in April 2012 in Japan), Fire Emblem is more popular than ever because of it, and Starfox had 3 reps in Brawl despite the series being stagnant from a couple years before then up until yesterday. Sakurai originally said he didn't think the roster would get much bigger, but wasn't that before they started collaborating with Bandai-Namco? And did someone say something a page ago about a different would-be prophet that said Robin was in, but that people have a low opinion of because he's full of himself?

But more likely...the leaker also said the devs were considering making DLC characters. If there's enough support for Robin, we could make a mass petition that'd be sure to be noticed. One issue with that, though, is we'd be going directly up against the Roy supporters and some of Melee's...vocal minorities, and to a lesser extent we could be competing against other fan favorites that might not make the cut like Mewtwo, King K. Rool, Isaac (if he's not an AT; Matthew if he is), et cetera, and we don't know how many DLC characters they'd be willing to make.

Hopefully we don't miss our opportunity here. It'd be a shame, too; the game looks like a blast and like the balance between Melee and Brawl they were shooting for from what I've seen from the invitational and the floor show recordings so far.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Even though the Gematsu leak is looking increasingly true...I don't think it rules Robin out yet.

The leaker said all of those characters--including Chrom--were newcomers...but he did not say that they were all of the newcomers. And while it's...admittedly unlikely for Fire Emblem to get 4 characters in, Awakening was a massive critical and commercial success (which the devs would've seen signs of when they were working on the roster, since it came out in April 2012 in Japan), Fire Emblem is more popular than ever because of it, and Starfox had 3 reps in Brawl despite the series stagnating. Sakurai originally said he didn't think the roster would get much bigger, but wasn't that before they started collaborating with Bandai-Namco? And did someone say something a page ago about a different would-be prophet that said Robin was in, but that people have a low opinion of because he's full of himself?

But more likely...the leaker also said the devs were considering making DLC characters. If there's enough support for Robin, we could make a mass petition that'd be sure to be noticed. One issue with that, though, is we'd be going directly up against the Roy supporters and some of Melee's...vocal minorities, and to a lesser extent we could be competing against other fan favorites that might not make the cut like Mewtwo, King K. Rool, Isaac (if he's not an AT; Matthew if he is), et cetera.

Hopefully we don't miss our opportunity here. It'd be a shame, too; the game looks like a blast and like the balance between Melee and Brawl they were shooting for from what I've seen from the invitational and the floor show recordings so far.

I kinda doubt it, sorry. I don't think we'll get two playable characters from Awakening.

 

[Delzethin]

I kinda doubt it, sorry. I don't think we'll get two playable characters from Awakening.

Lucas made it into Brawl because of how popular Mother 3 was in Japan. He wound up being a half-clone of Ness.

So who's to say Fire Emblem Awakening couldn't have two characters because of its success, especially if its second character played vastly different from its first and from any other characters? Sakurai said uniqueness was a major factor toward a character's inclusion, did he not?

 

[Pacack]

Lucas made it into Brawl because of how popular Mother 3 was in Japan. He wound up being a half-clone of Ness.

So who's to say Fire Emblem Awakening couldn't have two characters because of its success, especially if its second character played vastly different from its first and from any other characters? Sakurai said uniqueness was a major factor toward a character's inclusion, did he not?

He never actually said that. It's just a reasonable assumption considering Mega Man, Rosalina, Wii Fit Trainer, Little Mac, and Pac-Man all have playstyles that are completely new to Smash.

 

[Hong]

The game's quality? are you sure you don't mean "the game mechanics not being competitive enough"?
Because as far as quality goes, the presentation, the graphics, the soundtrack and the game's attention to detail is fantastic so far.

Excuse me, but have you even tried the game?

Visually, sure, it's spectacular.

But how it plays? All I can say is, I am glad the demo build was probably processed in April or May, because it will require serious revision. Keep in mind, while I play SSB64 competitively, I play Melee both 1v1 and FFA with items, and play Brawl exclusively casually. I would like to think I could formulate a better opinion than someone who came into this straight from Melee. I got about half an hour of gameplay before I just literally did not want to play anymore.

The game feels awful. The majority of the attacks have hitstun now, but you have a lot of hitlag as the initiator. This greatly lowers the overall level of input as the attacker. This isn't a competitive problem; this is a fundamental gameplay issue. I was not expecting a Melee 2.0... Melee is not even my favourite game in the series. That said, if I could describe it, I would say it is Brawl with about 25% more speed, fewer bugs, and HD graphics.

Keep in mind that the Brawl demo IIRC used a Melee build of the game, so hopefully it is just an issue with the demonstration.

I know you brought up largely presentation details, but even as a party game what I played would require serious revision for me to buy it.

 

[Delzethin]

Can someone give any more information on the leaker mentioned here?

The only leak that mentioned robin was leaker bro, who already was full of it. Sure, he got Palutena and the detailed description of miis right; but that was as far as it went. If we do get Robin, that means he goes back to being credible again; which already will cause a s.storm.

Even if the guy isn't very likable, if he's potentially credible, we have something concrete to stand by still.

EDIT: And in the last few minutes I've seen something noted both in the Isaac thread and on another site: for all the characters Sal Romano got right, he never mentioned Rosalina. So there's something more for the "leak didn't have all of the newcomers" theory.

 

[Blakexd9]

It's a shame gematsu's leak is as believable as it is, Robin was always my preferred FE newcomer. I'm still holding out hope, but it's pretty unlikely.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Can someone give any more information on the leaker mentioned here?


Even if the guy isn't very likable, if he's potentially credible, we have something concrete to stand by still.

EDIT: And in the last few minutes I've seen something noted both in the Isaac thread and on another site: for all the characters Sal Romano got right, he never mentioned Rosalina. So there's something more for the "leak didn't have all of the newcomers" theory.

The theory about Rosalina is that she was revealed in between leaks, but it doesn't make much sense. If he's aware of character reveals before major events how'd he miss her?

That said, with Sal Romano's leak and Rosalina, we have 12 newcomers. That's less Newcomers than even Melee got. And Brawl had 18. I could see a couple more. I doubt Robin would be one of them, but 'eh, I'd love to be proven wrong and that the guy had info like "Awakening's lead character" and it actually meant Robin, not Chrom.

 

[Hong]

Yeah...

Remember folks, that not for a moment were you wrong.

There have been lots of people who wanted Robin even if they haven't played the game or don't like her personality, because it is clear that she would have been a great choice for adding variety. No one can challenge that.

I could not say the same for a lot of characters, even some of the very newcomers that have arrived.

So regardless of what happens, you should be happy that you believed in something that could have fundamentally been unique or interesting. Unfortunately, that makes Chrom, should he appear, all the more toxic of an addition, knowing they would jump through hoops just to have a new Fire Emblem character, when there was already an obvious, easier to work with, more unique option.

 

[mimgrim]

Can someone give any more information on the leaker mentioned here?

I second this.

I'm curious about this "Leaker Bro" leak now.

 

[JaidynReiman]

So regardless of what happens, you should be happy that you believed in something that could have fundamentally been unique or interesting. Unfortunately, that makes Chrom, should he appear, all the more toxic of an addition, knowing they would jump through hoops just to have a new Fire Emblem character, when there was already an obvious, easier to work with, more unique option.

Especially when neither Awakening nor Kid Icarus: Uprising sold nearly as well as DKC Returns and yet characters from those games may possible be chosen over a new DK character.

I second this.

I'm curious about this "Leaker Bro" leak now.

Leakerbros is another fake leaker. If I recall correctly, he stated that Mii's were only available to represent you online but weren't actually playable. Of course I may have misread it. And he leaked a ton of ridiculous suggestions and seemed to imply that the Gematsu leak was false (and obviously we know Gematsu is true at this point, as much as we all hate to admit it).

 

[mimgrim]

Leakerbros is another fake leaker. If I recall correctly, he stated that Mii's were only available to represent you online but weren't actually playable. Of course I may have misread it. And he leaked a ton of ridiculous suggestions and seemed to imply that the Gematsu leak was false (and obviously we know Gematsu is true at this point, as much as we all hate to admit it).

Can I have a link to the original leak for it?

 

[Delzethin]

Dammit. So then we're down to our only chances being a character absent from the leak like Rosalina was, being DLC, or there being some kind of miscommunication in the Gematsu leak.

If Chrom is in, it'd make some level of sense to have him show up in a trailer, wouldn't it? Awakening is so well known that they'd be shooting themselves in the feet by keeping his inclusion secret. So we could possibly get our answers in another Direct around August.

So wouldn't it be awesome to see Chrom get into a battle, have him falter and start to fall as his aggressors approach...only to have a ray of lightning come in from offscreen and scatter them, and a familiar voice shout "Here's how it's done!", signaling Awakening's focus on pairing up being translated into both its main protagonists getting roster spots?

 

[Baws]

Excuse me, but have you even tried the game?

Visually, sure, it's spectacular.

But how it plays? All I can say is, I am glad the demo build was probably processed in April or May, because it will require serious revision. Keep in mind, while I play SSB64 competitively, I play Melee both 1v1 and FFA with items, and play Brawl exclusively casually. I would like to think I could formulate a better opinion than someone who came into this straight from Melee. I got about half an hour of gameplay before I just literally did not want to play anymore.

The game feels awful. The majority of the attacks have hitstun now, but you have a lot of hitlag as the initiator. This greatly lowers the overall level of input as the attacker. This isn't a competitive problem; this is a fundamental gameplay issue. I was not expecting a Melee 2.0... Melee is not even my favourite game in the series. That said, if I could describe it, I would say it is Brawl with about 25% more speed, fewer bugs, and HD graphics.

Keep in mind that the Brawl demo IIRC used a Melee build of the game, so hopefully it is just an issue with the demonstration.

I know you brought up largely presentation details, but even as a party game what I played would require serious revision for me to buy it.

I REALLY hope the final product doesn't feel as off as you're describing here. The last thing Nintendo needs is for Smash 4 to crash and burn. Just by roster alone this is my favorite Smash entry so far, and it would really suck if the game itself was no good...

 

[JaidynReiman]

I REALLY hope the final product doesn't feel as off as you're describing here. The last thing Nintendo needs is for Smash 4 to crash and burn. Just by roster alone this is my favorite Smash entry so far, and it would really suck if the game itself was no good...

If you didn't play 64/Melee competitively you'll probably like it just fine.

 

[Hong]

I REALLY hope the final product doesn't feel as off as you're describing here. The last thing Nintendo needs is for Smash 4 to crash and burn. Just by roster alone this is my favorite Smash entry so far, and it would really suck if the game itself was no good...

Since I wrote that, I have typed up a more positive post:

I would like to apologize for the tone of any messages I wrote anywhere on the forums earlier.

Yeah, I have been playing the series since the N64 version came out. That is surprisingly longer than some of the folks on here have been born.

I play Smash Bros all the time. I play all three commercial editions, I play 64 competitively, Brawl casually, and Melee both. Of course I expected so much and really even in half an hour am in no position to assess the value of the product.

While my opinion on the mechanics of the game are as true as when I stated it, I think saying it can't even be a party game is going too far. I mean, assuming this build of the game was compiled in April or May, that means there is still so much time for them to, if they pour their heart into it, make something amazing. Starting from after the invitational alone, they have nearly three months to work on the game if you factor in production time. Not to mention I can guarantee you that the version the developer gets to play is way better than the demo or the version they used for the invitational.

If you liked Brawl, this is a better version than Brawl.
If you didn't like Brawl, this is a better version than Brawl.

Give it a chance. I can't see you getting any less than at least a hundred hours of play. That is way more value than a lot of the games out there.

For what it's worth, I had a lot of fun with the Villager. I was so surprised that, even though he was everything I expected, he plays out even better than I had imagined. The folks at Treehouse make him look even better than I had. On that note, I think anyone from Nintendo makes the game look way better than I or any of the folks who played at the invitational. They are all great players, and I have had fun playing against a few of them, but they were to no one's surprise awful at the game.

What, having to play a game they had maybe an hour with prior, playing standing up infront of thousands. That can't even compare to something like Apex, where you are at least seated and there is nothing to look at besides the screen... even the loudest shouting is zoned out when all you care about is that last stock.

So yeah, I apologize to everyone for the mess I brought to this thread when I made that post. I don't think I acted unreasonably given my station, but this thread doesn't deserve to get dragged into that mess.

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

Basically, Leakerbros said ;

-Three cuts, Ivy, Squi, Snake.
-Mii playable offline and with friends, not online, with custom moves.
-Palutena and Ness revealed at E3
-StarTropic game
-Newcomers ; Robin, Palutena, Hades, Ridley, Bandana Dee, Takamaru, Mike Jones, Chibi Robo,
Shulk, Namco rep, Geno, Zelda newcomer, DK newcomer, Mewtwo. Making, with mii at the place of Random, 21 newcomers.
-Gematsu leak is fake.

Except the Mii description and Palutena, everything else has yet to be proven.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Basically, Leakerbros said ;

-Three cuts, Ivy, Squi, Snake.
-Mii playable offline and with friends, not online, with custom moves.
-Palutena and Ness revealed at E3
-StarTropic game
-Newcomers ; Robin, Palutena, Hades, Ridley, Bandana Dee, Takamaru, Mike Jones, Chibi Robo,
Shulk, Namco rep, Geno, Zelda newcomer, DK newcomer, Mewtwo. Making, with mii at the place of Random, 21 newcomers.
-Gematsu leak is fake.

Except the Mii description and Palutena, everything else has yet to be proven.

Yeah, I must not have read the Mii part right. Startropics hasn't been shown at E3 and isn't likely to show up at all. Gematsu leak is real. Palutena, Namco rep confirmed. Parts of his predictions did come true, but we can safely debunk it if Startropics isn't revealed at E3.

The only thing notably different is Robin and Chrom, but that could be the result of a miscommunication in the Gematsu leak and Robin is the actual Awakening rep, however unlikely that may be. If Robin is revealed instead of Chrom, this guy might have something, but other than that I don't buy it, its just a bunch of guesses where some happened to turn out true. Ness would need to be shown off tomorrow as well.

 

[Hong]

Don't believe either of the two leaks, but "LeakerBros" especially has zero reason to be believed.

 

[Baws]

Haha well yeah I've also played since 64, though never truly competitively. Having had an interest in the series for so long I've learned some of the techniques in the games that are common for competitive play, but never refined my skill to really be considered any higher level than a casual player, and yeah if "a better Brawl" is a good description for now, then that's perfectly fine by me. I liked Brawl more than Melee for the roster and extras and if it stays that way for the next entry, me and the friends (er, most anyway) I play with won't have any complaints.

 

[Baws]

I apparently REALLY like to double-post at times.

 

[Hong]

If Robin should appear, she will emerge in a better world than past entries.

Rolling is buffed, but all the other defensive options are toned down. Air dodge has more vulnerability, spot-dodge is more precise, ledge invulnerability can't be abused. The system of high hitlag, high hitstun means that, while you can't follow up on combos, you can still attend to other things. In essence; all characters that require preparation have been buffed. Samus can charge her shot, Rosalina can summon a new Luma, WFT can take some time to breathe, etc. Robin as a tactical fighter will fare a lot better in Smash 4 than she would in Brawl.

This naturally implies that the rush-down speedster has been toned down a bit as well, so hopefully a wider range of characters will offer viability.

 

[ToothiestAura]

If Robin should appear, she will emerge in a better world than past entries.

Rolling is buffed, but all the other defensive options are toned down. Air dodge has more vulnerability, spot-dodge is more precise, ledge invulnerability can't be abused. The system of high hitlag, high hitstun means that, while you can't follow up on combos, you can still attend to other things. In essence; all characters that require preparation have been buffed. Samus can charge her shot, Rosalina can summon a new Luma, WFT can take some time to breathe, etc. Robin as a tactical fighter will fare a lot better in Smash 4 than she would in Brawl.

This naturally implies that the rush-down speedster has been toned down a bit as well, so hopefully a wider range of characters will offer viability.

I wouldn't put so much faith in the demo's mechanics, it likely won't be the end result.

 

[Hong]

I wouldn't put so much faith in the demo's mechanics, it likely won't be the end result.

I doubt this as well.

The demo was ported to Brawl's engine, like Brawl's demo was ported to the Melee version.

That said I still think it will be a better world for a tactician. Still floaty, but not enough that people can take a projectile to the face and be able to gain ground just by holding towards the initiator. Air dodges being punishable is huge for projectile-users as well.

 

[Delzethin]

Still, though, if the final version is close, it has some interesting implications. The moderately-slow pace could still turn off the people who care more about Melee's super-flashiness, but you make it sound like it doesn't stagnate as easily as Brawl's can, that it's more deliberate and each hit feels more meaningful. While further testing will only help, it sounds like it'd do pretty well for anyone who isn't focused on style over substance.

And if it encourages tactical fighting styles, that's a plus. >_>

Talking metagame in the Robin thread. It just feels right, doesn't it?

 

[Drakonis]

Y'know, I've done some thinking...
If we assume the Sal leak is true (which is pretty likely so far), I don't think Robin's inclusion as an unlockable character is entirely unlikely..
Here's a Roster I made up out of (Blue): Announced returners, (Green): Newcomers and unannounced leak characters and (Red): Unannounced characters.
With the leaked ones, there are 36 currently known characters, less than Brawl. I highly doubt we will get less characters this time around. Brawl had (IIRC) 12 characters that wheren't known prior to release, so I'll assume the number will be roughly the same. The roster I assume shows 51 characters (53 if you count all Mii types). However, I'm really not sure about the return of ROB, Snake, Jigglypuff and Mewtwo but I included them anyways.

What do you think? Too much speculation on my part since I also included Ridley and Isaac?
Point I wanted to make is: There's still plenty room for a fourth FE rep, even if Chrom is in and other fan favorites as well as most Brawl vets make it. The assumption that we won't get a fourth FE character because... BECAUSE seems odd to me.

 

[Makaronileo]

Basically, Leakerbros said ;

-Three cuts, Ivy, Squi, Snake.
-Mii playable offline and with friends, not online, with custom moves.
-Palutena and Ness revealed at E3
-StarTropic game
-Newcomers ; Robin, Palutena, Hades, Ridley, Bandana Dee, Takamaru, Mike Jones, Chibi Robo,
Shulk, Namco rep, Geno, Zelda newcomer, DK newcomer, Mewtwo. Making, with mii at the place of Random, 21 newcomers.
-Gematsu leak is fake.

Except the Mii description and Palutena, everything else has yet to be proven.

I would prefer this leak over gatsumatsu leak every day.