Social "Time to Tip the Scales!" - Robin Social Thread

[DialNouns]

DialNouns now has a Robin avatar.

GG, guys, you converted him.

I'm a real Robin player, I swear!

"It's time we flipped these nails!"

Or something.

 

[Nah]

All the regulars in here have Premium accounts.

I feel like such a fraud without blue text.

It wasn't always like that in here. But then there was this huge premium spree where a lot of people either bought premium or were gifted it.

 

[Wintropy]

It wasn't always like that in here. But then there was this huge premium spree where a lot of people either bought premium or were gifted it.

Being able to gift Premium is a godsend.

And I can't help but feel I'm partially responsible, since I must have sent AlphaZealot about five or six payments for other people before gifting was even an official option.

 

[Yoite]

*cough* I'll have you know I played with DialNouns for a bunch when he first asked for experience

EDIT: Btw I'm down for some Smash games now if anyone wants to play me.

 

[DialNouns]

I'll have you know I played with DialNouns for a bunch when he first asked for experience

If I ever make the big leagues, you can claim to be my mentor.

 

[Wintropy]

If I ever make the big leagues, you can claim to be my mentor.

And never forget the cool cat that got you to take up arms in the first place...~ ;3

 

[Yoite]

If I ever make the big leagues, you can claim to be my mentor.

Was only a joke lol. You got there yourself, don't let anyone tell you different. Feel free to play me anytime though.....like now... xD

 

[DialNouns]

Was only a joke lol. You got there yourself, don't let anyone tell you different. Feel free to play me anytime though.....like now... xD

I'd play if it wasn't so late.
I'll be moving back to college next week though, which means better internet, and with an upcoming tournament I'll be practicing 24/7. We'll definitely get some games in at some point.

EDIT: also Wintropy , you should come over and play more once I move back

 

[Yoite]

I'd play if it wasn't so late.
I'll be moving back to college next week though, which means better internet, and with an upcoming tournament I'll be practicing 24/7. We'll definitely get some games in at some point.

EDIT: also Wintropy , you should come over and play more once I move back

Fair enough. It's late here too, It's just I'm nocturnal. Always get my work done at night, always play games at night, and I'm considering getting a late night shift job as well next term. Look forward to some good games though, hopefully I'll benefit a lot from it too

 

[Moydow]

And now I have some questions to ask.
Which bow users should I use now that I have Louise and Rath?

Louise is a decent unit (even comes with a pre-made A support with Pent, who you should definitely use), so you can use her if you haven't been using Wil or Rebecca. If you've been using them, though, you should probably stick with them (unless they got RNG screwed and Louise is stronger). Unless Rath got mountains of EXP in Lyn's mode, he's probably fallen too far behind at this point.

Which axe users should I use, Hawkeye, Dart, or Geitz? I have been using Dart a lot but he hasn't been able to get much experience.

I rarely use any of them, but if you must, just use Hawkeye and sell the Ocean Seal/keep it for your money rank, if that's what you're playing for.

And should I use both Pent and Erk?
Thanks in advance!

Use Pent
unless Erk matches him, in which case you can probably make room for both.

 

[Kotor]

What a beautiful Duwang Primordia *chew* There must be no other place as pretty as this world. This feels like a picnic.

 

[AmericanDJ]

Spoiler: I don't normally show my Xeoblade progress but, (beware of spoilers)

I finally have Riki to max affinity with everyone.
Feels so good to know that I won't have to trade for Rubber Mantises again.
(Sadly, that's not the case for Melia and Dobercorgis)

 

[Rinku リンク]

Yoite
What's the big idea of sending me a replay of you beating up a Link? You tryin to call me out huh!?! Well I got news for ya buddy, you don't wanna mess me.. I CRY EASILY!!!

 

[Jestar]

Yoite
What's the big idea of sending me a replay of you beating up a Link? You tryin to call me out huh!?! Well I got news for ya buddy, you don't wanna mess me.. I CRY EASILY!!!

Don't worry bud, here's a little something that might make you happy.

 

[Yaki]

So during my trip to the city I got the ganon and link amiibos finally, THUS CONCLUDING THE ZELDA AMIIBO SET. I also got a kantai collection blindbox with a char i actually wanted too. Also I bullied convinced my cousin into getting awakening so he can finally get a waifu.

 

[Kotor]

Also I bullied convinced my cousin into getting awakening so he can finally get a waifu.

Who do you see your cousin choosing?

 

[Yaki]

Who do you see your cousin choosing?

Part of me thinks he might go Lissa, but who knooooows

 

[Raziek]

Which bow users should I use now that I have Louise and Rath?
Which axe users should I use, Hawkeye, Dart, or Geitz? I have been using Dart a lot but he hasn't been able to get much experience.
And should I use both Pent and Erk?
Thanks in advance!

Well now I know where the character from @the Cardinal 's avatar.

If you have been using Rebecca or Will, they will likely be superior to Louise. If you have not, she comes with decent starting stats and an A-support with Pent, and Pent is a god. If you choose to use Louise, I find giving her an Angelic Robe can help her extremely shaky base HP. I use her mainly as a mage-killer due to her very respectable starting Res and Speed.

I am personally not a fan of Hawkeye, but he's not a bad unit. Dart is objectively the best of the 3 from a stats perspective, but he takes until promotion before his ludicrous growths get his speed up to par. Geitz is extremely solid and reliable, especially if you are on Hector Hard mode.

If you have used Erk and he turned out well, using both Erk and Pent is completely reasonable. However, Erk is prone to being Magic screwed, so if he's not pulling his weight offensively, just drop him for Pent. Pent's base stats are so good that he's pretty much objectively the best anima user unless you're willing to justify putting years into training Nino.

 

[Hacksorus]

I don't think it's that simple, honestly. Pit's arrows help him out way more than most people give him credit for. Taking that away from him is taking away a big part of his gameplan. F-tilt isn't that big a deal, but it's not an insignificant difference, it's helped me out on more than a few occasions.

Either way, the important thing is that they're both good characters with their own distinct strengths. I'm just happy that both are viable even in top-level play~ ;3

I just don't see it, personally. At the kind of range where projectile maneuverability would be a factor, it'd be pathetically easy to airdodge anyway. The only exception would be if the character is too busy trying to recover, in which case you're almost always better off chasing offstage anyway because of his great range and recovery. There's a reason they were considered pretty much exactly as good as each other before, but now one of them has a significantly better kill option.

 

[Wintropy]

I just don't see it, personally. At the kind of range where projectile maneuverability would be a factor, it'd be pathetically easy to airdodge anyway. The only exception would be if the character is too busy trying to recover, in which case you're almost always better off chasing offstage anyway because of his great range and recovery. There's a reason they were considered pretty much exactly as good as each other before, but now one of them has a significantly better kill option.

Pittoo was universally considered the weaker of the two beforehand. Redundant projectile, weaker f-tilt, side-b that was even less efficient at killing than Pit's.

You don't even use arrows to hit people, most of the time. You use them to pressure and condition your opponent. The fact that you can pop off multiple ones in a single set of jumps (fullhop arrows) and catch the opponent in frame traps due to airdodge baiting makes them significantly more useful than Pittoo's. Arrows do make a difference.

 

[Hacksorus]

Pittoo was universally considered the weaker of the two beforehand. Redundant projectile, weaker f-tilt, side-b that was even less efficient at killing than Pit's.

You don't even use arrows to hit people, most of the time. You use them to pressure and condition your opponent. The fact that you can pop off multiple ones in a single set of jumps (fullhop arrows) and catch the opponent in frame traps due to airdodge baiting makes them significantly more useful than Pittoo's. Arrows do make a difference.

Using the arrows to condition is impractical considering you can just react to them at a certain distance. If you're close enough that you'd be able to condition an airdodge and get a followup off it, his speed, disjointed aerials and multiple jumps would be able to get the same job done with more risk but higher potential reward. I'm not denying the usefulness of being able to just throw arrows at your opponent anywhere with no risk, but considering that the Pits are primarily rushdown characters, having another really strong kill option just ends up being more practical.

 

[The Merc]

Good news everybody.

I've got Xenobalde X and how my GAWDS, IT IS AMAZING.

The world is so big and pretty, there is so much to do, the characters are great and... Did I mention that the world is massive? Seriously, it's HUGE! If this is what game is like, it makes me wonder how big they are making Zelda U.

I don't regret buy this at all

 

[Yoite]

Yoite
What's the big idea of sending me a replay of you beating up a Link? You tryin to call me out huh!?! Well I got news for ya buddy, you don't wanna mess me.. I CRY EASILY!!!

Rinku-chan plz. I sent that ages ago and even messaged you saying look at this fg link lmao.

EDIT: Speaking of pit vs dark pit. Can't really argue the two, Nairo prefers dark pit over normal I know. I know that pit has better arrows but from what I've seen both are different from the other and have benefits over each other, it's down to the preferred playstyle.

 

[Rinku リンク]

Good news everybody.

I've got Xenobalde X and how my GAWDS, IT IS AMAZING.

The world is so big and pretty, there is so much to do, the characters are great and... Did I mention that the world is massive? Seriously, it's HUGE! If this is what game is like, it makes me wonder how big they are making Zelda U.

I don't regret buy this at all

My job here is done.

 

[Yoite]

Rinku リンク wanna smash? Need to rage some more anyway.

 

[Rinku リンク]

Rinku リンク wanna smash? Need to rage some more anyway.

I got up like not even 20 minutes ago though lol. If you don't mind giving me a bit to eat breakfast and stuff I'll play with ya.

 

[Yoite]

I got up like not even 20 minutes ago though lol. If you don't mind giving me a bit to eat breakfast and stuff I'll play with ya.

Take your time. Just message me when you're free. I have to be at a friends place for a new years party in like 3 hours but we should get time. (I live round the corner from him so dw lmao)

 

[Kotor]

Now THIS is an improvement!

 

[Wintropy]

Using the arrows to condition is impractical considering you can just react to them at a certain distance. If you're close enough that you'd be able to condition an airdodge and get a followup off it, his speed, disjointed aerials and multiple jumps would be able to get the same job done with more risk but higher potential reward.

They don't, though. They're not nearly the same thing. Watch top Pits playing, they know how to use the arrows to set up a constant stream of pressure from anywhere on-stage. For example, Earth is known for shooting his arrow upwards as the opponent descends, then frame-trapping them after the airdodge with an u-smash.

Arrows are a constant source of free damage if your opponent isn't capable of or doesn't think to airdodge (and you will connect them more often than Dark Pit's due to their versatility, so that means more damage), they clank with certain projectiles (not an ideal response if dodging or shielding is an option, but it can be a useful means of denying your opponent's own pressure game), you can use them to bolster your edgeguarding game (especially for characters with weaker recoveries that can threaten you up-close, such as Captain Falcon and Doc, or a move like Ness's PK Thunder Ike's Quick Draw that is dangerous to challenge head-on) and they're a very useful tool for denying your opponent the edgeguard (Ike is well-known for being able to punish most characters on the ledge with a well-timed Eruption, but Pit at least has the option of aiming an arrow upwards and interrupting the animation so he can buy extra time to grab the ledge safely).

The important thing to remember is, you don't throw out arrows in neutral unless you have a very wide berth with which to freely harass the opponent. You use them as follow-up options for free damage or to hassle your opponent or to get them into frame-trap situations, you use them to edgeguard opponents that can't safely recover or that you don't want to risk, you use them to keep the opponent on their toes by reminding them you have a move that can snipe them out anywhere you so desire, you keep it as an extra option. Because that's what it is, fundamentally: an option. An option Pit has that Dark Pit does not.

Does it make him a better character? Absolutely not. But I think it's premature to say Dark Pit's superior kill option objectively makes him better, too. You can have versatility or you can have kill power, and quite honestly, I don't think either is necessarily more beneficial than the others.

I'm not denying the usefulness of being able to just throw arrows at your opponent anywhere with no risk, but considering that the Pits are primarily rushdown characters, having another really strong kill option just ends up being more practical.

Sorry, but this is not true. The Pits are not rushdown characters, far from it. They're defensive, reaction-based, punishment-heavy characters. They do not try to aggressively pursue the opponent and beat them down, they try to play footsies with the opponent and bait them into making a poor decision, then punish them for it. Pit rewards patience and quick thinking. He does not have a kit that is tuned for rushdown play, it's just not how he operates. Pit's moves are relatively fast and have good range, but they are not fast enough or strong enough to make him a rushdown character the same as Sheik, ZSS, Mario or others.

Most importantly, though, he is based on good fundamentals: he does not base his playstyle on one kind of gameplan over the other, he's something of a carte blanche that you can fix and change to suit your playstyle. You can play rushdown with Pit, but it isn't ideal. There are better characters suited to it and most Pits get more mileage out of a more defensive style than anything else.

The only notable player who plays a very rushdown-oriented (Dark) Pit is Nairo, who's known for his aggressive playstyle with every character. Even then, he often makes mistakes and gets punished for it because he tends to play rushdown a bit too much, when patience would otherwise be better. Watch Earth play and you'll get an idea for how good a patient, creative Pit can be. The man does things with the angels I wish I knew how to do.

EDIT: Sorry if I come off as overly critical here, I don't mean to devalue your opinion. I am enjoying this discussion, it helps me flesh out my own understanding of the character. I have been playing this character since day one, though, so I'm a tiny bit passionate about getting things right and making sure misinformation is not unwittingly spread~ ;3

 

[AC NuBurs]

I just use dark pit because I like edgy characters like the scum I am

 

[Hacksorus]

They don't, though. They're not nearly the same thing. Watch top Pits playing, they know how to use the arrows to set up a constant stream of pressure from anywhere on-stage. For example, Earth is known for shooting his arrow upwards as the opponent descends, then frame-trapping them after the airdodge with an u-smash.

Arrows are a constant source of free damage if your opponent isn't capable of or doesn't think to airdodge (and you will connect them more often than Dark Pit's due to their versatility, so that means more damage), they clank with certain projectiles (not an ideal response if dodging or shielding is an option, but it can be a useful means of denying your opponent's own pressure game), you can use them to bolster your edgeguarding game (especially for characters with weaker recoveries that can threaten you up-close, such as Captain Falcon and Doc, or a move like Ness's PK Thunder Ike's Quick Draw that is dangerous to challenge head-on) and they're a very useful tool for denying your opponent the edgeguard (Ike is well-known for being able to punish most characters on the ledge with a well-timed Eruption, but Pit at least has the option of aiming an arrow upwards and interrupting the animation so he can buy extra time to grab the ledge safely).

The important thing to remember is, you don't throw out arrows in neutral unless you have a very wide berth with which to freely harass the opponent. You use them as follow-up options for free damage or to hassle your opponent or to get them into frame-trap situations, you use them to edgeguard opponents that can't safely recover or that you don't want to risk, you use them to keep the opponent on their toes by reminding them you have a move that can snipe them out anywhere you so desire, you keep it as an extra option. Because that's what it is, fundamentally: an option. An option Pit has that Dark Pit does not.

Does it make him a better character? Absolutely not. But I think it's premature to say Dark Pit's superior kill option objectively makes him better, too. You can have versatility or you can have kill power, and quite honestly, I don't think either is necessarily more beneficial than the others.



Sorry, but this is not true. The Pits are not rushdown characters, far from it. They're defensive, reaction-based, punishment-heavy characters. They do not try to aggressively pursue the opponent and beat them down, they try to play footsies with the opponent and bait them into making a poor decision, then punish them for it. Pit rewards patience and quick thinking. He does not have a kit that is tuned for rushdown play, it's just not how he operates. Pit's moves are relatively fast and have good range, but they are not fast enough or strong enough to make him a rushdown character the same as Sheik, ZSS, Mario or others.

Most importantly, though, he is based on good fundamentals: he does not base his playstyle on one kind of gameplan over the other, he's something of a carte blanche that you can fix and change to suit your playstyle. You can play rushdown with Pit, but it isn't ideal. There are better characters suited to it and most Pits get more mileage out of a more defensive style than anything else.

The only notable player who plays a very rushdown-oriented (Dark) Pit is Nairo, who's known for his aggressive playstyle with every character. Even then, he often makes mistakes and gets punished for it because he tends to play rushdown a bit too much, when patience would otherwise be better. Watch Earth play and you'll get an idea for how good a patient, creative Pit can be. The man does things with the angels I wish I knew how to do.

EDIT: Sorry if I come off as overly critical here, I don't mean to devalue your opinion. I am enjoying this discussion, it helps me flesh out my own understanding of the character. I have been playing this character since day one, though, so I'm a tiny bit passionate about getting things right and making sure misinformation is not unwittingly spread~ ;3

Don't worry, I'm not taking this personally. I'm just throwing ideas around here.

I'll admit, most of the Pit play I've seen comes from Nairo. I should clarify what I mean by "rushdown" character. I don't mean that the character is constantly aggressive, because the only characters who can really get away with that in this game are the ones with unbalanced frame date, like Sheik and Mario. I meant that his gameplan revolves around normals and the projectiles aren't as heavily relied upon as a character like Samus or Robin would.

But yeah, I made the mistake of assuming that the way Nairo plays Pit is the way that Pit is generally played. As a Robin main, it's pretty ironic that I made that mistake lol.

Personally, I'm not convinced that Dark Pit isn't better, but considering you clearly have more firsthand experience with the characters, I'll concede to you on this. We'll just have to see where the meta takes us, I guess.

 

[Wintropy]

I'll admit, most of the Pit play I've seen comes from Nairo. I should clarify what I mean by "rushdown" character. I don't mean that the character is constantly aggressive, because the only characters who can really get away with that in this game are the ones with unbalanced frame date, like Sheik and Mario. I meant that his gameplan revolves around normals and the projectiles aren't as heavily relied upon as a character like Samus or Robin would.

That's fair, I understand what you mean. I'd personally describe Pit as a "patient" character, for want of a better term; he doesn't rely on any one facet of his playstyle, he needs to use all of his strengths to his advantage since he doesn't have one style that's objectively better than anything else he can do.

Personally, I'm not convinced that Dark Pit isn't better, but considering you clearly have more firsthand experience with the characters, I'll concede to you on this. We'll just have to see where the meta takes us, I guess.

I'm not convinced either, and I'm not saying he isn't. I'm just offering reasons why I think it isn't as clear-cut as is often thought.

 

[☆Jazz☆]

My job here is done.

Yeah, I got it as well.

Lyn checking that Skell out though xD. I chose to geek out, just to add on to the moment....Elma put her head down...

No regerts~

 

[Izayoi]

Yeah, I got it as well.

Lyn checking that Skell out though xD. I chose to geek out, just to add on to the moment....Elma put her head down...

No regerts~

Ever wonder what her Skell fan fic is about?

...No regerts asking

 

[AmericanDJ]

Yeah, I got it as well.

Lyn checking that Skell out though xD. I chose to geek out, just to add on to the moment....Elma put her head down...

No regerts~

I have realized that this is the second time a Xenoblade character has shared the same name as a FE character. (Both of which are from FE 7)

 

[Izayoi]

Well, it's spelled "Lin" but it's basically the same in pronunciation. Who was the other one?

 

[Schnee117]

Well, it's spelled "Lin" but it's basically the same in pronunciation. Who was the other one?

Fiora from the original Xenoblade.

 

[telex]

Happy New Years Eve everyone!

ngl i lied and said i had plans so i wouldn't have to go out with any set of friends tonight. it's too crazy for me

 

[Kotor]

This is exactly how my first Nohr run will play out.

 

[Izayoi]

This is exactly how my first Nohr run will play out.

YUP Basically.
XD