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Thoughts on Metroid Reps for Fighter Ballot.

Rikkhan

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Why Ridley is so popular? I've played some metroid games and honestly I've always considered ridley just a recurrent boss cool to fight but nothing especial, from what I remember they hardly mention ridley in game its just appears and you had to fight it.
 
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Why Ridley is so popular? I've played some metroid games and honestly I've always considered ridley just a recurrent boss cool to fight but nothing especial, from what I remember they hardly mention ridley in game its just appears and you had to fight it.
The reason Ridley is so popular is sort of a hydra of reasonings, really. The ones I know of (and some that I myself have, but others may not) are that:
  • He's the archnemesis of Samus, much like how Bowser is the archnemesis of Mario.
  • He's the only other primary recurring villain in the franchise that really has any shot at being playable at all, even if he's already in the game as an NPC.
  • He has huge plot significance to the Metroid franchise; not only being the killer of Samus' mother (and, indirectly, her father), but also kicking off the plot of Super Metroid by razing a science station and stealing the infant Metroid and generally being the sole irrepairable wound on Samus' psyche.
  • Ridley is a constant villain throughout the franchise, only having not been in two games (those being Metroid II: Return of Samus and Metroid Prime 2: Echoes).
  • Ridley is also the only villain in the series to have full-on Joker Immunity; being able to survive through even the most ludicrously unlikely of chances.
So really, he's so popular because he's the Joker to Samus' Batman.
 

SmilingMad

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Why Ridley is so popular? I've played some metroid games and honestly I've always considered ridley just a recurrent boss cool to fight but nothing especial, from what I remember they hardly mention ridley in game its just appears and you had to fight it.
According to the Lore, he murdered Samus's parents.
That's important, right?

Either way, if you ask me it's either Ridley, Dark Samus, or no one. It feels like other characters are often suggested to be playable for the sake of expanding Metroid's reps, regardless of what they actually represent, essentially being glorified roster filler. Rundas represents a single game and dies early on, only having the merit of having cool music and being the only bounty hunter in that game that wasn't a dork. The Hunters all originate from a spinoff, and that's where their relevance dies. Anthony, once again, is a character that only appeared in a single game, and similar to Rundas, he was not a jerk and the only other competent person around.
 
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Pikmin-ism42

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Ah, come on! I honestly can't see Little Birdie getting in without the fully-grown badass that is Ridley joining the roster. It'll feel like slapping Baby Bowser into the list of playable characters but refusing to add Bowser in too.
And yeah, Ridley is the only Metroid rep. I could see in a Smash Bros. game. And yeah, I'm going to have to agree with SmilingMad here:
It feels like other characters are often suggested to be playable for the sake of expanding Metroid's reps, regardless of what they actually represent, essentially being glorified roster filler.
But yeah, Ridley is essentially the Bowser of Metroid, Samus's Ganondorf, and the second most important Metroid villain. And I can imagine him getting in having a size slightly bigger than Bowser's, and not looking "awkward", despite so many people INCLUDING Sakurai disagreeing with me.
Oh, but the fact that Ridley is a (rather fun actually) stage boss is a pretty valid reason for not thinking Ridley could make it in as DLC.
 

Auxiliary_Bro

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I've only played a few Metroid games, so while I'm probably not the best judge of who to add, Ridley hasn't stuck out to me too much personally, even knowing his history. He's important to Metroid, but I don't feel like he's an actual 'character'. I understand that's a really vague basis on why not to include someone, but I don't think he has personality that has stood out besides being persistent and umm, a mummy/daddy killer. I get the Bowser comparisons but even without bringing in the spinoffs, Bowser has had a personality; he talks in the mainline series.

I don't think Sylux, Rhundas or anyone in Hunters/Other M are much more than 'just another Metroid rep' either. Dark Samus definitely stands out as a villain, but I think as part of the Smash cast she wouldn't stand out. I pretty much mean that personality-wise too, but it'd also just look weird I mean we've got Samus.....then we've got Zero Suit...uh, Samus....AND THEN we've got Dark....Samus.

...So uh. I mean the only option left...is a nEW METROID C'MON SAKURAI MAKE THEM DO IT I'll vote 1,000 times get us a cool new character.
 
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SpatialPSI

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If I had to pick another Metroid rep, I'd go with Sylux. Out of all the hunters, I think he may be the standout, with the whole Other M thing. Although I could be wrong.
 

Rikkhan

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By the way I'm not trying to offend ridley fans and neither I'm discusing his inclusion on smash4 I'm talking as someone interesed in the metroid series.
"He has huge plot significance to the Metroid franchise; not only being the killer of Samus' mother (and, indirectly, her father)"

did they mention that in the game or its from the manga?

He's the archnemesis of Samus, much like how Bowser is the archnemesis of Mario.

This one really irks me in the sense that bowser has way more prescence in any game compared ridley, ridley doesn't have dialogues its just comes of nowhere and you had to fight it and he's not even the final boss. Metroid is more character centric game and I believe no one besides samus really stands out. In that sense it surprise me how ridley is so popular.
 
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did they mention that in the game or its from the manga?
Other M (though indirectly) indicates that it happened through Samus' Ridley-induced PTSD attack (which would only make sense if Ridley caused her to develop it in the first place), so it seems to be canon anyways.

This one really irks me in the sense that bowser has way more prescence in any game compared ridley, ridley doesn't have dialogues its just comes of nowhere and you had to fight it and he's not even the final boss. Metroid is more character centric game and I believe no one besides samus really stands out. In that sense it surprise me how ridley is so popular.
Ridley does speak in the manga, and he's usually implied to have quite high intelligence (and even his trophies in Smash make note of it). As for his presence, Ridley is the one character that Samus hates with a passion, even moreso than Dark Samus or Mother Brain.

The manga (which Other M seems to use as canon) also establishes that Ridley is fully capable of speech and also fleshes out his personality; Ridley is a violent, merciless murderer who kills for fun. To quote Ridley himself in the manga;
Ridley said:
Kill as much as you want! Have fun!
So Ridley does have a character, it's just that the games seem to skim over it often.
 
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Kojo

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Ridley or bust. The only character who even comes close is Dark Samus. I don't want any of the one off nobodies from Metroid Prime Hunters, because at that point it's just Metroid reps for the sake of Metroid reps. Put in a character a lot of people actually want.

From my point of view the best thing to do right now is to keep supporting Ridley. No imaginary rules or restrictions because he's already a boss, just keep supporting him. If he doesn't get in Smash 4 he might end up in Smash 5 from all the support.

In general, I've never liked the idea of wanting a random character to get in just so your favorite franchise get have "more reps". Wanting Ridley based on his own merits (like overall importance, what he can add to the game, etc) is one thing, but wanting him just so "Metroid can get another rep" seems really shallow to me.
Exactly.
 
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Pikmin-ism42

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Yeah, Dark Samus would be the next best Metroid rep. after Ridley (in my humble opinion), but whilst it's essentially not Samus at all, but more of a hyperintelligent Metroid inside Samus's Phazon suit, it would still kind of irk me to see yet another Metroid rep. with "Samus" in it's name, and who bears a lot of resembalnces to Samus.

Not that I think that Dark Samus would be a disastrous choice, I'd actually find it to be a neat addition actually.
(But Ridley would be a neatER addition)
 
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ThePottedGhost

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First post woo! As most seem to agree, the best Metroid reps are Ridley followed by Dark Samus. Assuming they are out, I am voting for Mystery Creature from Other M and I am definitely saying on the ballot that it's only cause of the aforementioned boss status. My reasoning is that Ganondorf was playable after being in only one game but works because it's understood he is the same entity as the (at the time) much more prominent Ganon and that MC and Ridley is essentially the same situation. Plus, MC doesn't have any of the issues Sakurai said in regards to Ridley-proper (size and flight).
 

Smashoperatingbuddy123

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Ok to explain a few things for each possible


Ridley

Well everything from before he was revealed as a stage boss for one

The big wall is sakurais interview of why he failed.

Explain these of each of the 3 reasons in the ballot and he may have a long shot


1
"wings would have to be shrunken and he can't fly around freely."

Sakurai... Tell that to :4bowserjr::4charizard::4darkpit::4dedede::4duckhunt:(the duck):4metaknight::4mewtwo::4pit::4palutena::4villager:(the balloon fighter hat) they all fly as much as ridley does outside of smash and they're fly around freely was taken away.


2
"The adjust the balance would be so tough it would crash the game."

Simple it doesn't mean he can try and he forgot one saying that destorys this "almost anything is not impossible to do."
the fact that it could be possible its just tough doesn't mean it can't happen is all im saying.

3

"Shrinking him will ruin his menecing looks."

Hes being pessimist about me and probably 80% of smashboards don't think he will loose his mencing looks when shrunken

Besides bowser is shrunken and still looks menceing.



Now ridley out of the way


Possibles are the hunters from metroid prime hunters

Most likely of them is sylux due to rumors particualarly the one of the metroid prime 3 ending that may be syluxs ship and not dark samus's


And of coarse

Me remember me anothney higgs.
 

Aetheri

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Ridley and Dark Samus are pretty much it...Metroid really isn't known for having too many characters that are suited for Smash or are notable enough...

Ridley-Main Antagonist of the series, Samus archnemesis, Awesome Purple Space Dragon

Dark Samus-Would represent the Prime Trilogy, main antagonist of the Primes, her being an entity that represents possibly three key aspects of Metroid; sharing Samus's appearance and DNA, being a metroid and possibly the space pirates as well; she's probably the most powerful entity within the metroid franchise...
 
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D

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Ridley, Dark Samus, Noxus and Trace... and Sylux... There seriously could be a whole load of characters for under-represented series in Smash Bros especially F-Zero and nintendo aint gonna do nothing.
 

StormC

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I definitely don't want Metroid characters that aren't Ridley or Dark Samus. Most of the proposed characters are laughable, like Sylux and Rundas, completely unnotable one-off characters in a series with few notable character as-is.

Even Ridley I'm a little unsure about. He'd take a lot of work to get right, but it would be worthwhile if pulled off well.
 
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KyroChao

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I want ridley over everything else, but since hes a boss, i DONT want two ridleys in the game. I also dont want another Samus.
 

RomanceDawn

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I want ridley over everything else, but since hes a boss, i DONT want two ridleys in the game. I also dont want another Samus.
Really? I'm pretty happy with 2 Mario's, 3 Link's and 2 Duck Hunts. I would be over the moon for 2 Ridley's with one being playable.
 

HakuryuVision

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Since the one Ridley who's in Smash4 as a stage-boss is just a clone, and one of many Ridleys (and not even a popular one, by the way), i don't see how Ridley as a playable character "can't happen".
Yeah, Sakurai keeps saying "he's too big", but so is Bowser usually. And Olimar would be too small.
-Hm? Bowser's height changes in the Mario games? So does Ridley in the Metroid games.
But oh well. Maybe voting for him will still help, Nintendo might remember our votes for future Smash games.


...but i do agree on one thing.
If it's not Ridley, i don't see any other Metroid character happening.
No one is as popular, as important to the franchise, and as iconic as Ridley. (...aside from Samus herself of course)

The Prime Hunters were forgettable (and only in one game), so were the bounty hunters from Metroid Prime 3.
I had to look up Sylux in the Metroid Wikia to remember who he even was.
NONE of them deserve a real spot in the smash roster.
And we REALLY don't need more clone character such as Dark Samus or SA-X.
Other M has what? Little Birdy? Anthony Higgs? Whiny scared Samus?

Honestly, i don't really see any other Metroid character standing a chance.
The ones close to Ridley would be Mother Brain (not seeing her happen), the baby Metroid, and maybe Kraid who's 4-5 times the size of Ridley.

I want ridley over everything else, but since hes a boss, i DONT want two Ridleys in the game. I also dont want another Samus.
We have 2 Marios & 2 Links. How is one playable Ridley, and one Boss Ridley a problem? O__o
Heck, Other M Ridley is his own character, just how Dark Pit, and Lucina are their own.
The playable Ridley could be the original one (Metroid/Zero Mission/Prime Trilogy/Super Metroid).
 
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Since the one Ridley who's in Smash4 as a stage-boss is just a clone, and one of many Ridleys (and not even a popular one, by the way), i don't see how Ridley as a playable character "can't happen".
and yet the trophy acts like it is the original Rildley (appeared in metroid 1, "long standing-rival") and he can suddenly turn into meta Ridley.
and playable ridley "can't happen" because Sakurai said he cant happen.


I was really hoping this thread wouldnt be revived because it's a combination of "muh reps" and quite a bit of ridley hate. . .yay
 

HakuryuVision

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and yet the trophy acts like it is the original Rildley (appeared in metroid 1, "long standing-rival") and he can suddenly turn into meta Ridley.
and playable ridley "can't happen" because Sakurai said he cant happen.
Then that's a faulty description.
Other M Ridley is a clone of the original Ridley .You even see it growing up from a (sort of) "larvae" form (aka little birdy) up to it's space-dragon form during the story.
And Sakurai also said Villager couldn't happen, and he/she turned out great.
 

Aetheri

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Since the one Ridley who's in Smash4 as a stage-boss is just a clone, and one of many Ridleys (and not even a popular one, by the way), i don't see how Ridley as a playable character "can't happen".
Yeah, Sakurai keeps saying "he's too big", but so is Bowser usually. And Olimar would be too small.
-Hm? Bowser's height changes in the Mario games? So does Ridley in the Metroid games.
But oh well. Maybe voting for him will still help, Nintendo might remember our votes for future Smash games.


...but i do agree on one thing.
If it's not Ridley, i don't see any other Metroid character happening.
No one is as popular, as important to the franchise, and as iconic as Ridley. (...aside from Samus herself of course)

The Prime Hunters were forgettable (and only in one game), so were the bounty hunters from Metroid Prime 3.
I had to look up Sylux in the Metroid Wikia to remember who he even was.
NONE of them deserve a real spot in the smash roster.
And we REALLY don't need more clone character such as Dark Samus or SA-X.
Other M has what? Little Birdy? Anthony Higgs? Whiny scared Samus?

Honestly, i don't really see any other Metroid character standing a chance.
The ones close to Ridley would be Mother Brain (not seeing her happen), the baby Metroid, and maybe Kraid who's 4-5 times the size of Ridley.



We have 2 Marios & 2 Links. How is one playable Ridley, and one Boss Ridley a problem? O__o
Heck, Other M Ridley is his own character, just how Dark Pit, and Lucina are their own.
The playable Ridley could be the original one (Metroid/Zero Mission/Prime Trilogy/Super Metroid).
It really frustrates me when people think Dark Samus will be a Samus clone...if you've played the Primes then you'll see how different she is from Samus...Dark Samus and Samus share the charge shot, missiles and morph ball and that's it...heck you'll see it just by how she behaves as an Assist Trophy...
Also considering that adding her would represent the Primes as a series, much the same way Dr. Mario represents the Dr. Mario games and Toon Link represents the Toon Zeldaverse...
 
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Then that's a faulty description.
Other M Ridley is a clone of the original Ridley .You even see it growing up from a (sort of) "larvae" form (aka little birdy) up to it's space-dragon form during the story.
And Sakurai also said Villager couldn't happen, and he/she turned out great.
Didnt say it wasnt but hey there it is. Says something about what sakurai thinks.
Villager had years. Ridley has had months.

It really frustrates me when people think Dark Samus will be a Samus clone...if you've played the Primes then you'll see how different she is from Samus...Dark Samus and Samus share the charge shot, missiles and morph ball and that's it...heck you'll see it just by how she behaves as an Assist Trophy...
Also considering that adding her would represent the Primes as a series, much the same way Dr. Mario represents the Dr. Mario games and Toon Link represents the Toon Zeldaverse...
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 

StormC

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i don't see how Ridley as a playable character "can't happen".
Yeah, Sakurai keeps saying "he's too big", but so is Bowser usually. And Olimar would be too small.
-Hm? Bowser's height changes in the Mario games? So does Ridley in the Metroid games.
Ridley has only been at a size comparable to a playable Smash fighter in the original Metroid and the Melee intro. While, yes, you can downsize him, the issue is one of relativity and proportion: Olimar and the Pikmin are at the same relative size to each other as they are in the Pikmin games proper, which is the key thing, as a character's "actual" size changes overall depending on the stage they are on. As far as proportions go, this is really the biggest issue with downsizing Ridley; he has huge wings, a long neck, a wide stance, a big head, and lanky proportions. His hitbox would be enormous if he had all of these kept even at Bowser's height.

I'd still love to see Ridley in Smash, but he would most likely need a complete redesign to be feasible as a fighter... or they would use his Other M design, which has none of these problems.

We have 2 Marios & 2 Links. How is one playable Ridley, and one Boss Ridley a problem? O__o
The conflict is a matter of roles. With playable characters, there is going to be overlap on depiction of characters by very design; there can be matches where up to 8 players pick the same character. However, there is only one boss, with no precedent for obtrusive non-playable characters also having a playable role.

There's no lock-and-key reason it couldn't happen, but that's probably the game design team's thought process.
 
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Pikmin-ism42

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No one is as popular, as important to the franchise, and as iconic as Ridley. (...aside from Samus herself of course).
*cough* Mother Brain *cough cough* (But yeah, I'm not sure that she has much chance to end up being playable in any Smash game.)

Also, I doubt that Dark Samus would be a clone character if dropped into the roster.
 

Wolley2xjd

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I'll just leave this here.



Bagan: I decided to redo the model (by that i mean that i edited Other M model again, but without using previous version). Now it has better beak (its not as curved and has no weird shading on it), better spikes on the back, no elbow and leg spikes, longer teeth, longer tail spikes, different tail spike that resembles classic Ridley's usual arrowhead-like tail spike, shorter tail, bulkier arms, spikes on eyebrows, thinner head, etc.
Also, do you notice anything weird on this image?
 

RomanceDawn

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I'll just leave this here.



Bagan: I decided to redo the model (by that i mean that i edited Other M model again, but without using previous version). Now it has better beak (its not as curved and has no weird shading on it), better spikes on the back, no elbow and leg spikes, longer teeth, longer tail spikes, different tail spike that resembles classic Ridley's usual arrowhead-like tail spike, shorter tail, bulkier arms, spikes on eyebrows, thinner head, etc.
Also, do you notice anything weird on this image?
Show it again please, it's not coming up in this post.
 

RomanceDawn

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it's working for me. It might be on your end.

that or it's because it's a quote from a group. (it's a public group though. no idea if that changes things )
Darn. I wonder why I can't see it?
 
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Ridley or nothing, imo. He's a great supporting character in a major Nintendo series who would offer variety to the playable cast, and the only thing stopping him is the personal taste (or whim) of the director.

Aside from that, as Metroid's cast is now, I'd rather Samus and ZSS be the sole representatives of the series than get some no-star third character.*

*Dark Samus would be okay with her Phazon-flinging and what have you, but I would like to try to avoid more Adjective Characters in Smash.
 

Smashoperatingbuddy123

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Basicly for the ballot if you want ridley


Say about the clone theory about ridley (To show a way he does not have to femoved ridley from the stage hazard.)

And show evidence that sakurai is wrong anout the 3 things in the reason that ridley failed interview. (To show the proof aginst his reasons.)

And that should give him a chance.
 
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Metal Shop X

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I really wanted Dark Samus with Ridley before! I think she represented a big part of The Metroid franchise (The Prime series). And that a cool moveset semi-clone of Samus with some attack from the Primes series would be cool for her! But everything change when the Smash Direct attack......
 

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I'd actually like Dark Samus with more of a Prime 2 "organic" look anyway. With the x-ray/skeleton form as an alt.

Would actually be okay if she was an "easy" clone addition, but it definitely wouldn't help the "Metroid = (3) Samus" view.

She has much more potential than winding up as another Falcondorf, but I suppose it doesn't mean much with Sakurai at the helm.
 

Metal Shop X

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I'd actually like Dark Samus with more of a Prime 2 "organic" look anyway. With the x-ray/skeleton form as an alt.

Would actually be okay if she was an "easy" clone addition, but it definitely wouldn't help the "Metroid = (3) Samus" view.
Yeah.... It's really a problem for her to be called Dark Samus (two counter in the same name), when she is probably the most unique of all evil clone of Nintendo!
 

Aetheri

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Yeah.... It's really a problem for her to be called Dark Samus (two counter in the same name), when she is probably the most unique of all evil clone of Nintendo!
When you really think about Sakurai's view of Dark Samus could be that she is too similar, as the description of her Brawl trophy states that she is the same as Samus except for colour (which is far from the case)...which could be the main reason why she isn't a playable character at the moment...

but then again :4darkpit:

It doesn't help that Metroid, specifically the Primes, are not as popular in Japan as they are in West so Sakurai probably doesn't feel too obligated to give the series the extra boost...
 

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I chose my favorite hunter, Trace
 
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