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The Winning Steak Cinemas: Video Archive & Criticism Thread Updated

Shugo-Chan

Smash Lord
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Ohio
I can't find it a fun stage... : (. Maybe i should play ic's or something there. then again ic's are just broken...the whole matchup is hit and run away for 20 seconds then repeat with constant fear of getting grabbed xD. I can't possibly see sonic beating ic's w/o trying to run the clock on them. :/ at least i learned NOT to directly spindash at them...meep would just pivot grab me everytime and lain tried the same thing on saturday lol i just jump out of spin when i feel a pivot grab coming now.
 

B.A.M.

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does any1 have any good videos fighting a fairly sound falco? i havent had the chance to fight Larry aka DEHF and my friend Susa doesnt really play faclo. I would like to see what I am missing from that matchup
 

Umby

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does any1 have any good videos fighting a fairly sound falco? i havent had the chance to fight Larry aka DEHF and my friend Susa doesnt really play faclo. I would like to see what I am missing from that matchup

If I get a chance, I'll see how I do against kismet. If it do decent, I guess I'll save the replay and TRY to upload it.

I haven't done Sonic vs Falco in quite some time with him.
 

da K.I.D.

Smash Hero
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Rochester, NY
I can't find it a fun stage... : (. Maybe i should play ic's or something there. then again ic's are just broken...the whole matchup is hit and run away for 20 seconds then repeat with constant fear of getting grabbed xD. I can't possibly see sonic beating ic's w/o trying to run the clock on them. :/ at least i learned NOT to directly spindash at them...meep would just pivot grab me everytime and lain tried the same thing on saturday lol i just jump out of spin when i feel a pivot grab coming now.
This is why I tell people that ICs **** sonic. People (Speed) always tell me that using Spindash and ASC can help avoid getting grabbed, and when I tell them how easy it is for not only the ICs but just about every character to pivot grab him out of it, people just dont believe me.
does any1 have any good videos fighting a fairly sound falco? i havent had the chance to fight Larry aka DEHF and my friend Susa doesnt really play faclo. I would like to see what I am missing from that matchup

susa can suck a ****.
lol
I played shugo's and Bloodcross's falcos at SNES, the matchup is just really stupid, I beat BC once or twice, maybe 3 times, but im pretty sure shugo's falco (who knows how to fight sonic) beat me pretty handily. although my lucario did give him the **** once or twice:laugh:

the matchup consisted of a lot of walking, a lot of power shielding, and a lot of up smashes
 

Espy Rose

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This is why I tell people that ICs **** sonic. People (Speed) always tell me that using Spindash and ASC can help avoid getting grabbed, and when I tell them how easy it is for not only the ICs but just about every character to pivot grab him out of it, people just dont believe me.


susa can suck a ****.
lol
I played shugo's and Bloodcross's falcos at SNES, the matchup is just really stupid, I beat BC once or twice, maybe 3 times, but im pretty sure shugo's falco (who knows how to fight sonic) beat me pretty handily. although my lucario did give him the **** once or twice:laugh:

the matchup consisted of a lot of walking, a lot of power shielding, and a lot of up smashes
Fighting against a pair of ICs is a pain, and yes, any character and easily pivot grab Sonic out of a SDR or ASC. However, I'd say that abusing this knowledge against the other player really benefits.

It's fairly easy to fake an ASC, have them wiff the grab that WOULD'VE grabbed the ASC, then just SDR into their faces as they're in the post-lag of their grab animations.

Having said that, it's still fairly difficult to approach the ICs without getting hit once or twice, since anything they have on the ground usually outdoes anything we have available to us.

In other words, it's easy to get destroyed by the ICs if you stupidly spin into them the same time, each and every time.

Spindash intelligently.

=====

Falco, KID, is once of the most boring matches I've ever played. You pretty much summed it up with that.

Makes me glad that he can be out-gayed by MK. Watching DEHF get air-stalled by Dojo was beautiful.
 

Shugo-Chan

Smash Lord
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yeah i haven't been a fan of either stage ever since it came out lol...i use that side b w/e invincibility nonsense sometimes, but maybe it's time i start practicing on them.. xD, but i highly doubt i'll be able to learn the ic's matchup..it's like falco vs ic's...or olimar vs sonic..some matchups just don't happen lol.
 

Kinzer

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*Whoops*

Can you delete this Chis?
Chis can't delete posts I think, he doesn't have that kind of power.

does any1 have any good videos fighting a fairly sound falco? i havent had the chance to fight Larry aka DEHF and my friend Susa doesnt really play faclo. I would like to see what I am missing from that matchup
If it means anything to you, I'll see about getting a replay of me playing against SK92. I won't win, but perhaps by looking at somebody else's Sonic, you might be able to see something that you weren't doing before that might help.

This is why I tell people that ICs **** sonic. People (Speed) always tell me that using Spindash and ASC can help avoid getting grabbed, and when I tell them how easy it is for not only the ICs but just about every character to pivot grab him out of it, people just dont believe me.


susa can suck a ****.
lol
I played shugo's and Bloodcross's falcos at SNES, the matchup is just really stupid, I beat BC once or twice, maybe 3 times, but im pretty sure shugo's falco (who knows how to fight sonic) beat me pretty handily. although my lucario did give him the **** once or twice:laugh:

the matchup consisted of a lot of walking, a lot of power shielding, and a lot of up smashes
Who said you needed to pivot grab?

When it's just a blind rush, I can grab Tails out of his ASC by just timing my standing grab. If you don't believe me I can start getting replays uploaded of me doing that.

Of course though, Espy just gave us all some food for though.

But you can't see this post so I'm free to call you a doodarr, whatever that is... just a made-up word.

Practice on yoooooooshis and rainbow shugo.

...U didnt hear it from me tho D:<
Malcolm, I'm not questioning you, but I am curious as to why I need to practice MOAR! on Rainbow Cruise. I'll do it, but I'd like to have an inspiration/reason as to why I need to do it other than "you gotta do it." I'm sorry I can't help it, it's just who I am. :(

...even if that wasn't really directed at me, I want to get better too.

And I did not hear it from you, okay?
 

da K.I.D.

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Olimar vs sonic isnt any dumber than olimar vs any other character. Oli is just a ***tastic character regardless of what char youre playing. the matchup is essentially the same with sonic as it is with anybody else, because every matchup with oli is the same, run away, side b, pivot grabs, up airs, f smashes to space, up smashes to kill.

and once you understand how the character works, you can beat him by baiting and punishing the moves that you know hes going to do. and as a matter of fact i feel that sonic is one of the better options since we are so used to that style of play anyway.
 

Espy Rose

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Rainbow Cruise really doesn't really limit Sonic much, at least in my experiences.

If I was able to beat a MK and a G&W on RC, then maybe the level is something worth considering.
 

Kinzer

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dywO7pmHhDY

Video is pretty self-explanatory.

Anybody like to come in here and tell me somebody else has already thought of this before me? C'mon, I know how much people just love to shoot me down only to have me :( and then proceed to -_- because nothing I come up with is original except my playstyle which could be criticized for being a hybrid.
 

~TBS~

Smash Champion
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KID...i said ASC, not spindash into them. Spindashing will get you killed. easily. But this whole pivot thing...uh...bair them? Great, now IC's are even more ****.

Falco is harsh, i cant think of anyway to beat Falco other than me getting lucky. Its definitely ana uphill battle that you have to tough out.

Screw Olifreak, he can hhkj' himself. Stupid pikmin just keeps attacking so fast.

And Espy, not all of us have that skill that you possess. -_- Isnt GnW and MK **** on RC?
 

Espy Rose

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dywO7pmHhDY

Video is pretty self-explanatory.

Anybody like to come in here and tell me somebody else has already thought of this before me? C'mon, I know how much people just love to shoot me down only to have me :( and then proceed to -_- because nothing I come up with is original except my playstyle which could be criticized for being a hybrid.
Yeah, this has been thought of already.

I actually pulled this off in several tournaments. The main problem with this setup is that they can attack and cancel the tumbling animation the moment they fall from the ledge, so you really have to catch them off guard.

For example, if you did what you did in that setup video to a MK, he'd have just uaired you before you'd be able to get to the bottom level.

===

MK and G&W do great on RC, but if you have more experience than the other player on the level, and understand how to deal with the two of them, then it can really become that "wtf Trump card".
 

Mr. Johan

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=224xGdIZGAs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bQ_E7lyGMw

Two mirror matches I had with SoniKupo. Lag was pretty evident in the matches, the latter more so than the former, but not enough that it froze up for 10 seconds every once in a while.

Just by looking at them I know that I need to work on my offstage game, which, really, is nonexistent. I just don't know/can't decide what options to use when I get the opponent offstage, and so I just hover at the edge like an idiot, waiting for him to come back.

Numerous D-airs was meant as a defense, which is bad, I know that. I had some Brawls before Kupo, and the d-airs were being very effective for some reason, so I guess it carried over without me wanting them to. As for the SH d-airs, I was trying to SH f-airs, but the the input didn't carry over, and I guess my fingers slipped into pushing the Control Stick down, so the d-air was initiated.

The biggest thing I noticed though was that I think I was playing too cautiously. Most of the time I'm trying to bait a reaction using Side B cancels, when just going for an offense would have worked out just fine. It's not uncommon for me to rush up, Side B cancel, and roll backward, but that just puts me back to Square 1 most of the time.

Is there anything I missed and/or I can improve on? I think I got my basic problems down.
 

da K.I.D.

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Just for the record, as far as jab locks go with sonic, theres only a few moves in my mind that are good enough to finish with.

1. Charged kill move. Only useful when it kills. (105%+)

2. Run behind pivot grab. Very good pretty much all the way up to kill percents. With pummels it does much more damage than the charged smash. Also sets up very well for follow ups. Assuming you ran behind them and pivot grabbed after a jab lock at the edge of the stage, your back should be at the ledge. which means all of your option will set up very well.
You can back throw which puts them as far as possible away from the stage.
You can down throw, and that will set up for tech chasing with the whole stage.
You can up throw, and you can follow that up with aerials.
And if they DI the up throw correctly, they will have to be DIing away from the stage.

3. Lastly, and this is VERY SITUATIONAL, if you get a jab lock at a very low percentage, you can lock them up to about 20%, and than either spin-dash, or foxtrot behind them and spin-dash the other way, at which point the spin dash to facejump to spring dair jab lock setup is still viable, and therefore you can jab lock him toward the edge that is farthest away thus securing the highest possible damage output from the jab lock, seeing as after the second lock, you can finish that with either of the first two methods, which, if performed correctly, should be (as ive never actually pulled off this entire string of moves) a garaunteed 0-60 to or so combo, with the potential to score an extra up to 30% from follow ups.

sounds like a good deal to me, if I ever pull that off...
 

JMan8891

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Shugo:

I have offically moved back to Rockford, IL

If i can get my money right, i def wanna go to some of the MW tournies. I'd really like to Steak match ur Sonic, and see who will place better at several tournies (Semis- JMan (Sonic) vs Shugo (Sonic) lol :p)

So... when are the next big ones? and I like... need to go with ppl. That i know of, no one in Rockford, IL plays Brawl competitivley to any extent. So if i go, i need to meet up with ppl/car pool. I gots me a nice 07 Corolla to hitch around, but had to sell my gps so i can get new tires on it. Where in the MW are u, exactly? im about an hr and half from Chicago. We need to play/ need to try to outplace eachother in tournies.
 

da K.I.D.

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i dont know how close you are to chigago, but as far as illinois smash goes, the first person you should talk to in terms of finding events and people to play with, would be Kirk
 

Kinzer

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I don't know how Umby got a hold of it (lurks Pika boards?), and not that I'm mad about it, but since it got posted, it might as well be put here:

Kinzer (Sonic) Vs. Z (Pikachu) matches I, II, & III respectively.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ae5B2T8IMKc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDB0Y6G48WA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FS6pa1gqRAs&feature=related

Please Sonic boards, I have no where left to turn for help other than the people I respect and look up to. I fear that I may be nearing my end when it comes to improving as a player and as Sonic. As faithless and Emo it may seem, no matter how hard I try to incorporate more, I can't. This was taken a while ago but it's the latest footage available. Please tell me in specific detail what I need to improve on besides the obvious FSmash and Roll spam.

That's all I'll say for now, I have some more unfinished schoolwork I need to take care of before the weekend. I'd make my emo speech longer but nobody wants to read my plea for help, point is take a look at the vids, and see if there's anything wrong.
 

Espy Rose

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Been very slow as of late.

Updated. New vids of Shugo in teams with M2K, along with a single video from DJ Browny, matches of Z vs. Kinzer, and WiFi singles matches of DIH, Sonic Storm, and Sonikupo. Also some Misc. stuff from 4nace and Kinzer.

Slow period, indeed. Keep sending in those videos.

EDIT: Give it about 5 minutes. Gotta add in Kinzer's new videos.
EDIT 2: Fully updated.

Oh, and I might put up a lulzy video for reference. It's hilarious.
 

Mushroomring

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Espy Rose

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I'm going to be uploading new videos from my previous tournament this weekend.

Matches include my Sonic vs. Phantom X's Wario, Hylian's Ice Climbers, and Zigsta's Pokemon Trainer.

They'll hopefully be up as the week progresses.
 

Browny

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I don't know how Umby got a hold of it (lurks Pika boards?), and not that I'm mad about it, but since it got posted, it might as well be put here:

Kinzer (Sonic) Vs. Z (Pikachu) matches I, II, & III respectively.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ae5B2T8IMKc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDB0Y6G48WA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FS6pa1gqRAs&feature=related

Please Sonic boards, I have no where left to turn for help other than the people I respect and look up to. I fear that I may be nearing my end when it comes to improving as a player and as Sonic. As faithless and Emo it may seem, no matter how hard I try to incorporate more, I can't. This was taken a while ago but it's the latest footage available. Please tell me in specific detail what I need to improve on besides the obvious FSmash and Roll spam.

That's all I'll say for now, I have some more unfinished schoolwork I need to take care of before the weekend. I'd make my emo speech longer but nobody wants to read my plea for help, point is take a look at the vids, and see if there's anything wrong.
It seemed to me that your accuracy of attacks was quite low... Excluding times when an attack was beaten in speed or simply outprioritised, I counted (match 1 only) a 55.5% accuracy in attacks (as in attacks that had the intention of hitting, not spacing/momentum cancel). I know Pika is obviously hard to hit but I dont think you can ever win with that accuracy. I was interested and looked at one of my matches vs my brothers MK, similar hard character to ever actually hit and I didnt do that much better with only 65% but it still stuck in my mind how often your attacks simply had no chance at hitting pika, he couldnt even run into them if he tried. things like trying to bair pika on the ground while dropping it higher than ganons head is just a waste of effort on your part and pika doesnt even have to really think to punish it.
 

Camalange

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Congrats to Wes for taking a match off Ally!



Word of advice, don't roll so much >_< Ally started eating him alive for those roll habits.

:093:
 

Kinzer

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It seemed to me that your accuracy of attacks was quite low... Excluding times when an attack was beaten in speed or simply outprioritised, I counted (match 1 only) a 55.5% accuracy in attacks (as in attacks that had the intention of hitting, not spacing/momentum cancel). I know Pika is obviously hard to hit but I dont think you can ever win with that accuracy. I was interested and looked at one of my matches vs my brothers MK, similar hard character to ever actually hit and I didnt do that much better with only 65% but it still stuck in my mind how often your attacks simply had no chance at hitting pika, he couldnt even run into them if he tried. things like trying to bair pika on the ground while dropping it higher than ganons head is just a waste of effort on your part and pika doesnt even have to really think to punish it.
So how do I go about increasing my hit accuracy? You're right on the part that Pikachu is elusive rodent... in fact I think this point is strongly emphasized when I took my sweet time countering his QAC and he was just zipping around me.

Spring works really well against thunder for dodging those star KOs. I noticed Z got you a few times with that, Kinzer.
Spring Jump hasn't worked for me to avoid Thunders since December, whenever I get killed by Thunder, it's usually because my airdodge gets read or too much hitstun (Yes, get it out of the way you ignorant morons, it exists in this game) doesn't allow me to avoid it in time with either a Spring Jump or an airdodge.
 

~TBS~

Smash Champion
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Kinzer...its weird.

You approached either using ASC, dash into, or dashattack>Fsmash constantly. Z just figured out when you attacked. You gotta mix it up once they start to predict you. Throw in a couple( A couple of them. Do NOT use it constantly, like every ten seconds) of grounded Spindash cancels to bait an reaction and punish. Like on your second vid at 3:44, that is what im referring to. Also, everytime you got hit into the air, you fair'd or AD'd too early and got thunder'd. Wait until you hear that faker yell, then AD. Also, be careful on charging your smashes...charging is not to be thrown out constantly. Thats what caused you your last match. :(

I hope that gets you some kinda help.

Also, why do most Sonics do Spindash Cancel>another spindash?
 

Umby

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I'm just your problem~
Spring works really well against thunder for dodging those star KOs. I noticed Z got you a few times with that, Kinzer.
Dodging Thunder isn't difficult. Just watch Pikachu on the ground and listen for the move. If he follows your DI, just air dodge and change your DI into the opposite direction. If he doesn't move at all, it's a no brainer.
 

da K.I.D.

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quick note about pikachu, if he hits you with a verticle kill move, NEVER momentum cancel, that gives them an automatically guaranteed thunder kill.
 

Kinzer

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I only did those approaches because that's what seemed to work best on Z at the time.

Thanks for the advice though. I've been looking into a lot of my matches, and I notice I lose because I don't mix it up, or I'm too afraid to do anything else. I guess I better start, because if I'm losing the same way over and over, it won't get me anywhere.
 

Orange_Soda_Man

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Dodging Thunder isn't difficult. Just watch Pikachu on the ground and listen for the move. If he follows your DI, just air dodge and change your DI into the opposite direction. If he doesn't move at all, it's a no brainer.
I don't doubt you. I spring up against Thunder just like we all use spring against MK's Shuttle Loop, and it works just fine. Maybe this weekend I'll get some videos with it up or something.

Spring Jump hasn't worked for me to avoid Thunders since December, whenever I get killed by Thunder, it's usually because my airdodge gets read or too much hitstun (Yes, get it out of the way you ignorant morons, it exists in this game) doesn't allow me to avoid it in time with either a Spring Jump or an airdodge.
At high percents I'd expect the up-smash to kill you anyways unless you're playing on YI or something. What changed since December?
 

Umby

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I'm just your problem~
A match of me fighting D3

Round 1:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfrN3ckoghc&feature=PlayList&p=2931F4E36C41FE4D&index=47

Round 2:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21DL-oR_EUs&feature=PlayList&p=2931F4E36C41FE4D&index=48

I felt like I did better in Round 1, but Round 2's music was very "Energetic." Any and all criticism is welcome to help improve my game, thank you. :)

Match 1: Rolling to get to the edge of the stage to abuse Spin Charge. That's not going to set up any real kind of pressure, and the fact that you're rolling after an attack to the edge makes it predictable. I also noticed that after camping the edge you try to roll behind the opponent when they get close. Also predictable and highly punishable. Don't be afraid to go after the opponent, even if it is a fat penguin. Work your way inside with a few movement tricks and punish his reaction. Also, don't forget that Full Hopped Fair is a solid choice against D3.

Match 2: Was this your counterpick? RC is a pretty good stage for D3. If you did CP, I wouldn't recommend this choice again. Same problems as before, except now you have plenty of space to abuse and choose to sit there. It's Sonic, guy. You gotta get moving. You're rolling into the opponent quite often. Work on that.

Overall, I don't feel you were mobile enough. Frustration from fighting Sonic comes from the fact that he can be in your face at any second, which you neglected to demonstrate. Camping the edge only does anything on wifi. Also, your rolling patterns became predictable and unsafe. Maybe try dashing away occasionally.
 

Trent

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Match 1: Rolling to get to the edge of the stage to abuse Spin Charge. That's not going to set up any real kind of pressure, and the fact that you're rolling after an attack to the edge makes it predictable. I also noticed that after camping the edge you try to roll behind the opponent when they get close. Also predictable and highly punishable. Don't be afraid to go after the opponent, even if it is a fat penguin. Work your way inside with a few movement tricks and punish his reaction. Also, don't forget that Full Hopped Fair is a solid choice against D3.

Match 2: Was this your counterpick? RC is a pretty good stage for D3. If you did CP, I wouldn't recommend this choice again. Same problems as before, except now you have plenty of space to abuse and choose to sit there. It's Sonic, guy. You gotta get moving. You're rolling into the opponent quite often. Work on that.

Overall, I don't feel you were mobile enough. Frustration from fighting Sonic comes from the fact that he can be in your face at any second, which you neglected to demonstrate. Camping the edge only does anything on wifi. Also, your rolling patterns became predictable and unsafe. Maybe try dashing away occasionally.
Thanks for the tips, and yeah I did CP Rainbow Cruise like an idiot. I completely forgot about the "getting caught in a corner." I'm more offensive as Sonic too against other MU's, but I read somewhere that it was good to camp D3 due to his chain grab so I was trying something new.

I appreciate the advise. :)
 

Espy Rose

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqyT7I50KkY&feature=related

Wes beat Ally in one of the three rounds...DAYYYM!!!
And then proceeded to get super wrecked in the next two. Poor Wes. ;___;

Congrats to Wes for taking a match off Ally!



Word of advice, don't roll so much >_< Ally started eating him alive for those roll habits.

:093:
THISTHISTHIS. Holy ****.
Wes did only one thing wrong. He limited the **** out of his own approaches, and never once did I see him try approaching in any different pattern that deviated from running back and forth, or SDR. Kudos for getting a match off, of course, but Ally easily showed just how badly Wes was being read.

That, and his recovery options seemed very poor...

=====

Anyways, updated. Got some vids from Trent, Wolfy, Wes, and myself. Included are some doubles vids of me and Phantom being awesome. :p

I'd like some feedback on my matches with Phantom, Hylian, and Zigsta, if any. I'm analyzing them myself, but I'd like a third party to check it out as well.

PS: Someone critique Wolfy's videos for him, he asked and no one has yet to respond.
 
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